Guild Wars 2

Uploading #7 as I type this. Watch the very end for a detailed explanation and demonstration of what the ‘stealth lag bug’ really is!

Overview:
To my discontent, my original server, Jade Quarry, became #1 (and zergier than ever) after a lot of the bandwagoners from Henge decided to join it (after Titan Alliance disbanded). In light of this, I have taken the liberty to transfer to Stormbluff Isle and PK the snot out of JQ for about a week, be they original JQ (some of which I have always wanted to fight, just to see) or immigrants from Henge.

Enjoy, and remember: genocide is fun!

You sir,

Deserve a medal.

Mind I ask what traits build you got?

Build is linked in the video description. Changed it up a little since the 5th vid.

Once again, noting the detailed explanation and demonstration at the end of this video. It explains and shows the ‘stealth lag bug’.

So, next time you complain about thief stealth, remember. MAYBE THE PROBLEM IS YOU.

Thumbs up for style.

(Although I don’t like thieves that build didn’t bother me.)

What gear setup is used for this? thinking of making a new set to try my hand at this playstyle, berserkers prob wont cut it.

He’s posted in quite a few of his threads/videos that he uses carrion.

thanks, sorry i dont visit the forums often didnt relise he had other threads to look in.

They honestly need to improve the equipment/rune/sigil tab at guildhead. Which reminds me, I added the sigils/runes to the link in vids 6-7.

great vid, im surprised how many were so terrible at ressing on JQ

I always mostly get them in a downed state, but people i fight against can easily just res them up when they know they only have 1 guy to worry about, so your opponents could have done better…… like they seem to do against me

That settles it, going to actually try using a thief.

Here lies a good proof at how kitten stealth is in this game.

Played the crap out of thief when it was harder in BWE2 and BW3 and even then I realised how cheap it was so I didn’t make one for launch.

Have fun with your noob class bro !

Sebyos.4089:

Here lies a good proof at how kitten stealth is in this game.

Played the crap out of thief when it was harder in BWE2 and BW3 and even then I realised how cheap it was so I didn’t make one for launch.

Have fun with your noob class bro !

I see someone didn’t watch the very end of the video, for an explanation of the stealth lag/culling bug.

And I see you also ignored that 1v2 vs 2 80 thieves I purposely started the vid with. Do you have any idea how many times I wreck thieves, both on my thief and necro? I mean.. Just count how many of the clips in all my videos have at least 1 thief in them. (hint: it’s a lot)

Now, I’m not trying to downplay thief viability here, but obviously a lot of ppl are blowing this out of proportion, because it’s a very old and popular trend for ppl to whine the most about opponents they cannot always SEE.

There’s videos out there now of an ELEMENTALIST 1v3+ ing ppl:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R63BSVIHeDQ&t=3m21s

Need I say more? You going to call eles OP too?

C’mon get serious I was owning people with my thief drunk with 10 hours played with my thief. Of course any class can 1vs2 or 1vs3, but the skill needed is way different. Seriously don’t you dare compare the complexity of a Thief vs a Ele or a Necro…

As for the end part it just proves nothing. Obviously, the footage is not good to demonstrate the point, but I may get the idea that people have tunnel vision and don’t see enemies all the time. This is very true for general large fights where some thieves will play with zergs and get away with it and yes it is blown out of proportion because it doesn’t happen very often. Thing is it’s probably because thieves are simply having too much fun running around killing people everywhere while escaping easily when things get hairy.

However the tunnel vision not related to the problem with thieves in duels. The real problem does have a thing to do with rendering, but it’s mostly that you can stealth so often that you force people to watch 360 degrees every time you stealth. The view in this game is horrible for that and the best you can view is 180 degrees or a very short range 360 degrees view so fighting a thief is pretty much flipping a coin every time the thief stealth hoping hoping to catch him in your current view and that, while the thief can still open on people and get a few free hits every single time.

It’s so obvious in your videos how often and how badly your opponents are puzzled by the stealth with absolutely no way of dealing that I really can’t see why you would ignore the broken mechanic and blame the tunnel vision instead.

what I hate is downing someone then 3 of thier mates are waiting to just rez the crap out of him stopping you from getting the stomp. Happens in 90% of the footage that isnt shown here :/

best way to counter a thief specialised in going solo hunting, rez the one getting targeted by the thief

Sebyos.4089:

C’mon get serious I was owning people with my thief drunk with 10 hours played with my thief. Of course any class can 1vs2 or 1vs3, but the skill needed is way different. Seriously don’t you dare compare the complexity of a Thief vs a Ele or a Necro…

As for the end part it just proves nothing. Obviously, the footage is not good to demonstrate the point, but I may get the idea that people have tunnel vision and don’t see enemies all the time. This is very true for general large fights where some thieves will play with zergs and get away with it and yes it is blown out of proportion because it doesn’t happen very often. Thing is it’s probably because thieves are simply having too much fun running around killing people everywhere while escaping easily when things get hairy.

However the tunnel vision not related to the problem with thieves in duels. The real problem does have a thing to do with rendering, but it’s mostly that you can stealth so often that you force people to watch 360 degrees every time you stealth. The view in this game is horrible for that and the best you can view is 180 degrees or a very short range 360 degrees view so fighting a thief is pretty much flipping a coin every time the thief stealth hoping hoping to catch him in your current view and that, while the thief can still open on people and get a few free hits every single time.

It’s so obvious in your videos how often and how badly your opponents are puzzled by the stealth with absolutely no way of dealing that I really can’t see why you would ignore the broken mechanic and blame the tunnel vision instead.

1) The end proves EVERYTHING. I am unstealthed, within attack range of at least 10 ppl behind me, and come into range of at least 10 ppl in front of me. You even see some of them turn right towards me. I am unstealthed most of the time, so there is no WAY they would not see me render. As the video says it’s an EYESIGHT and BRAIN lag issue. Do not confuse player mistakes with a class being too strong at something.

2) Ele or necro may be more complex, in terms of having more skills to time but is NOT more complex in terms of positioning, mind-reading, etc. I can tell you that I personally don’t ever need to read someone’s mind on my necro, aside from staying on them as they kite. I just faceroll, without really paying attention to what they’re trying to do. Yes, ele/necros take more thought/experimentation to initially to learn, yes, there’s more to memorize than a thief. No, they are not ‘harder to play’ in all respects. They are just DIFFERENT.

3) You seem to again be missing ALL the stealth spamming thieves that I destroy in my videos. You don’t need to be constantly watching 360 degrees around you. I will repeat: you don’t need to SEE your opponent to fight them! I go Zatoichi on their a’s all the time.

4) Thieves are WEAK at direct/up-front combat. I know this from personal experience and from destroying other thieves that would be 1-2 seconds too late on stealthing (with not only thief, but necro and warrior as well).

5) The opponents might be puzzled, but you’re lying when you say they have no way to deal with it. Again, you don’t need to constantly SEE your opponent to fight them. Think of it like the high-speed DBZ fights. Also, see #2 again, and see what I personally do against stealthers. Notice I DON’T keep spinning my camera, I simply predict where they are going to unstealth, because if they unstealth anywhere else, THEY ARE NOT A THREAT.

Motherkittening son of a god. Surely the best PvP video I have seen on this game, grats for this awesome action and I hope we’ll see more from you.

I am pretty sad to see noone tries to throw AoEs near downed comrades or just throw empty hits near the body : stealth doesn’t mean untouchable, does it).

Edit : oh it’s Slic, no wonder.

I wonder if he could accomplish the same feats with another class..

At first I though you were JQ or HoD – then I realized you were on my server now.

I only have one question to you now…
…Do you take apprentices ?

Seriously – there’s a ton of skill there. Your ego seems to be a bit inflated – but you probably have reason to. And bonus points for style and music.

Keep up the good work.

Looks even more boring that heartseeker spam.

Slic.2406:

1) The end proves EVERYTHING. I am unstealthed, within attack range of at least 10 ppl behind me, and come into range of at least 10 ppl in front of me. You even see some of them turn right towards me. I am unstealthed most of the time, so there is no WAY they would not see me render. As the video says it’s an EYESIGHT and BRAIN lag issue. Do not confuse player mistakes with a class being too strong at something.

If anything, the end proves the opposite of what you’re saying. Any purely visible class would definitely have caught some fire from the guys behind you. Given the number of players in the area, you were likely culled out from some, if not all of them.

The problem is server culling, not stealth.

Of course he was culled out in that situation. The fact that he would try to pass off rendering and culling issues as players not being aware of their surroundings is flat out dishonest. What we need are mature players providing proper feedback, not people defending their own class with laughable crap.

Oozo.7856:

Of course he was culled out in that situation. The fact that he would try to pass off rendering and culling issues as players not being aware of their surroundings is flat out dishonest. What we need are mature players providing proper feedback, not people defending their own class with laughable crap.

Ask yourself. How come ALL OF THEM ARE VISIBLE TO ME? 99% of the time, this means I am visible to THEM. In fact, you can see some of thm turn towards me, you can see a mesmer and ranger at the front start attacking me. I am 99.9% certain I am not culled in that clip, I am visible to pretty much everyone’s client, because they are ALL visible to me throughout the entire video.

Please stop defending players that are clearly bad, and stop giving anet more excuses to water the game down.

Yes, player culling exists, but player culling is NOT the issue in this example of brain/eyesight lag.

Slic.2406:

Oozo.7856:

Of course he was culled out in that situation. The fact that he would try to pass off rendering and culling issues as players not being aware of their surroundings is flat out dishonest. What we need are mature players providing proper feedback, not people defending their own class with laughable crap.

Ask yourself. How come ALL OF THEM ARE VISIBLE TO ME? 99% of the time, this means I am visible to THEM. In fact, you can see some of thm turn towards me, you can see a mesmer and ranger at the front start attacking me. I am 99.9% certain I am not culled in that clip, I am visible to pretty much everyone’s client, because they are ALL visible to me throughout the entire video.

Please stop defending players that are clearly bad, and stop giving anet more excuses to water the game down.

Yes, player culling exists, but player culling is NOT the issue in this example of brain/eyesight lag.

The server updates your client is receiving has nothing to do with the updates the players around you are receiving. Especially when you’re moving rapidly. That’s one thing.

Second, their server code may well ‘optimise out’ stealthed players (i.e. de-prioritise updates for stealthed players) when there are many other players within the same area.

The proof is in the pudding – even the mindless zerg can manage to spam 1 on an enemy thief < 900units in front of them, but they don’t.

Without server logs it’s impossible to be sure but the fact you got away scot-free is fairly suggestive of culling.

It’s a really fun build but it does show how annoying player culling is, and how something should be done. Granted it’s not extremely powerful, just horrendously annoying to be barraged and only until he’s done, and you have 6+ stacks of bleed on you, can you see who did it.

Edit: Not dissing you or the video or anything. Good work.

Just one question: What weapon skins are you using? those blue glowing things look great

Love your vids. I use a similar build but more stealth based than poison. I never got into Q3A. I played Unreal Tournament Instagib mod as my twitch of choice during that era. Used to love provinggrounds and all that stuff.

Nice seeing another thief doing things differently +1 from me

Me like this video! Me like thief! Me leveling thief!
I always have loved playing classes like this one. If you need to move alot thats my pick!
Great video man! Will sub!

“Look, you can keep giving these players the benefit of the doubt, but just what kind of evidence do I need to present, and how copious and undeniably genuine does it need to be??”

Set up a test where both you and your opponent(s) capture video. Sync the video’s en compare.

Great show, really enjoyed watching it.

Also the Steal/finish to downed thieves is awesome. Thanks for the tip!

now… can you make your thief tip his hat and say: “the names django…” :P?

Rissou.7213:

Just one question: What weapon skins are you using? those blue glowing things look great

http://www.gw2db.com/items/66689-corrupted-revolver
http://www.gw2db.com/items/66682-corrupted-shard
I ofc transmuted them, so they have carrion instead of zerker prefixes.

RedX.3160:

now… can you make your thief tip his hat and say: “the names django…” :P?

I’ve been looking into that, but it’s a challenge to have an in-game anet staff take you seriously when you ask for a /tiphat emote.

In the meantime, I found a gangster-grip animation that I’ll likely use as an intro screen for future vids.

Genius!

I can’t quote on a previous statement you made, however let me copy and paste.

“There’s videos out there now of an ELEMENTALIST 1v3+ ing ppl:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R63BSVIHeDQ&t=3m21s

Need I say more? You going to call eles OP too?"

Elementalist is OP
Engineer is OP
Warrior is OP
Thief is OP
Mesmer is OP
Guardian is OP
Ranger is OP
Necromancer is OP

Now that I have gotten that off my chest. if people just L2P, then people will realise how OP they can be. instead of complaining about every class, obviously this will not stop and my words of wisdom will not assist. clearly…

I enjoyed your vid and I subscribed, looking forward to more vids, I run a P/P – P/D build but I’m running zerker gear for the unload.

P.S. I eat thieves for breakfast on my necromancer if they go glass cannon. <- condition build.

Tried my hand at this today, pretty solid but getting use to the change of pace in playstyle is gonna take a while to adjust to.

so far as i can tell from playing this build is primarily for solo roaming or with a small group. it really lacks the punch for and kind of zerging. Only way i seem to be much use is by swapping out the shadow arts trait for Venom Share.

That said it is quite nice living for more than a few seconds when being hit.

hey slic.. love you vids.. keep it up

do you find other thieves the hardest class to kill? if they spec shadow arts and have the condition removal on stealth, would make them a very difficult opponent 1v1

great video! enjoyed it a lot.

“On that note, I do not vastly out-level/out-gear my opponents, because that is simply impossible to do; upon entering the WvW zones, every player’s stats are automatically raised to level 80, much like GW2’s structured PvP.”

I haven’t read through everything, but do you realize how false this is?

Sure, it scales your level, but base level stats are 916 in everything, and health changes per class. After that, it comes down to gear, traits, and skills unlocked, among other things. A level 80 in WvW has an enormous advantage over lower level classes. The fact that it scales you to 80 is completely irrelevant when it doesn’t scale your gear, give you all skills, or unlock the ability to use your trait points.

Other than that, great video. P/D thief seems extremely fun to play.

Very nice video. I prefer the old aion videos but these aren’t bad at all !

You actually get people to stay and fight you as a P/D thief.. My first build was P/D cond and people just ran after applying the first stack of conds… After which I would spend most of the time chasing them down and either running into a zerg/large group or a tower/keep… Awesome vids though!

Also for the person posting the Ele D/D video, Ele D/D is currently the hardest opponent I can run into. The only proper way for me to deal with it is to stay ranged 90% of the time but that seems impossible due to the gap closers. I don’t think they are OP but they are definately tough as nails if played correctly. Especially with the amount of self buffing and finishers.

EZCheesy.9261:

Tried my hand at this today, pretty solid but getting use to the change of pace in playstyle is gonna take a while to adjust to.

so far as i can tell from playing this build is primarily for solo roaming or with a small group. it really lacks the punch for and kind of zerging. Only way i seem to be much use is by swapping out the shadow arts trait for Venom Share.

That said it is quite nice living for more than a few seconds when being hit.

This type of build especially with Shadow arts is really good at zerg killing. Just hang in back or to the side and you get people to 50% before their brain kicks in by C&Ding off anything nearby. They retreat into their zerg or sometimes toward you because they are still clueless and you just C&D/Opener them to death and stomp them in the middle of 50 people. Rinse/repeat. Making sure you get the deathblow with a C&D is really important for pulling off zerg stomps if you don’t slot haste.

This isn’t an indictment as to your playing ability, but the end where you try to clarify the stealth lag issue is pure and utter bullkitten. There is a huge issue with rendering from stealth trying to disprove it by showing a video of people tunneling other people as proof to the contrary is assinine.

Pyrial :
This isn’t an indictment as to your playing ability, but the end where you try to clarify the stealth lag issue is pure and utter bullkitten. There is a huge issue with rendering from stealth trying to disprove it by showing a video of people tunneling other people as proof to the contrary is assinine.

Ive been playing intensively mesmer and thief (because i think they are the more fun) and in WvW the rendering issue for me only happen in big zerg , on small scale fight (95% of his video) i never have rendering issue from stealth. Some people just need to find something else to blame because blaming ourselves for our own lack of skill sometime is impossible. Ive beaten thieves , ive beaten people with thief.

This video was really good and im sorry people try to discredit you out of jealousy when they cant do better by blaming the rendering. I cant wait for Anet to correct the problem so like that theyll see you were doing it right and they were wrong.

I dont say the rendering issue doesnt exist, just in a small scale fight it never happened to me to have that problem, even fighting against two thieves 1v2 on my mesmer.

@Darkchicken. The video doesn’t disprove the rendering issue, that’s the problem. You can try to go off on a tangent as to what I’m talking about, but that’s the ONLY thing I’m talking about. I’m not trying to discredit his video. The fact of the matter showing stealth from the perspective of a thief doesn’t show the rendering issue.

I think you’re missing the point of the video though. He’s not disproving the rendering issue. Everybody knows it’s in there and it sucks. But if you watch the video, his point is that he’s not IN stealth outside of the first guy he hits with CnD. After he pops out about halfway up the hill, he is out of stealth for at least 4 or 5 seconds as he moves up the hill. He even starts attacking people on his way to the gate. The point of the ending scene is to show you just how many people in a zerg go all tunnel vision on the first red name they see while a Thief, not even in Stealth, can roll by and get away without taking much damage. It’s obvious that people SEE him out of Stealth just about 2 seconds after he pops out, because people start shooting at him from range. Anyway, that’s how I see it. Nothing is disproven on the Stealth bug, but it definitely shows that don’t always see or react to things that ARE visible.

Setima.8741:

I think you’re missing the point of the video though. He’s not disproving the rendering issue. Everybody knows it’s in there and it sucks. But if you watch the video, his point is that he’s not IN stealth outside of the first guy he hits with CnD. After he pops out about halfway up the hill, he is out of stealth for at least 4 or 5 seconds as he moves up the hill. He even starts attacking people on his way to the gate. The point of the ending scene is to show you just how many people in a zerg go all tunnel vision on the first red name they see while a Thief, not even in Stealth, can roll by and get away without taking much damage. It’s obvious that people SEE him out of Stealth just about 2 seconds after he pops out, because people start shooting at him from range. Anyway, that’s how I see it. Nothing is disproven on the Stealth bug, but it definitely shows that don’t always see or react to things that ARE visible.

He’s saying that he is disproving the stealth bug. It’s obvious that given tunnel vision in zergs people don’t see everything. However, given a 1 v 1 setting or small scale battles where you’re focusing on the rogue stealth issues are evident and it’s a broken mechanic. People going around saying it isn’t stealth lag but only brain lag are well, brain lagged themselves.

Slic, great vids man! Do you miss detonating runes and godstones?

Pyrial.2917:

He’s saying that he is disproving the stealth bug. It’s obvious that given tunnel vision in zergs people don’t see everything. However, given a 1 v 1 setting or small scale battles where you’re focusing on the rogue stealth issues are evident and it’s a broken mechanic. People going around saying it isn’t stealth lag but only brain lag are well, brain lagged themselves.

I’m not denying the existence of the stealth lag, or of the rendering issue. I AM disproving that it happens as often as people imply.

I am saying that often times (I’d say 9/10 times) when players die to a thief and blame stealth lag, it’s actually not stealth lag or player culling, it’s the brain/eyesight lag I described in the video.

I’ve been instagibbed by culled zerg and had thieves that actually did stealth-lag (and still died to me, btw). It doesn’t happen often outside 50+ vs 50+, it happens once in a blue moon.

What you described as “brain lag” isn’t proven by the video. That’s based on the assumption that people must stop what they are attacking and be required to attack a thief when they see it. The whole premise behind that portion of the video doesn’t make sense. As to the rendering lag, it isn’t exclusive to 50+ Vs 50+ it happens ALL the time in small scale settings or 1 v 1. Look at any video people fight rogues in (in those settings) slow the rates down to when someone is hit with an ability and how long before they take damage does the thief appear.

lol, didn’t know your on the forums. Good vids enjoyed it.