Guild Wars 2

evilapprentice.6379:

So that’s your criteria for “Op enough to be nerfed”? Someone’s PvP highlight reel showing “some success”? You realize how silly that sounds, right?

I saw that video when it was originally posted. I even tried the spec out. It’s fun, it’s different, and you’re right that it’s not completely useless. It is however no where near good enough to be considered a meta build, and not deserving of nerfs. At least part of its effectiveness (50%, imo) stems from the fact that your opponents don’t know what to expect. Players see you rocking S/D and don’t expect dodge trops/caltrops/condition pressure. If it became popular enough to be run by multiple players, it’d quickly fall into the “Good enough for Hot join/Yoloq fun but not much else” categeory, and nothing in that category is strong enough to deserve nerfs.

I didn’t say his spec needed a nerf. To make my position perfectly clear, I think a very specific brand of dire P/D condition thieves in WvW needs a nerf. The biggest culprit is dire gear.

However, what makes these thieves so strong isn’t just dire gear, as other condi specs (including the S/D condi build) demonstrate. 4/0/0/4/6 is just an overall strong trait spread that, when paired with dire gear, perplexity runes, and +40% condi duration food, becomes overkill. Anet could correct for that a number of ways, but the best way to do it is to get rid of dire, so that other condi specs (like the S/D build) don’t get touched.

I’d like to make a point about this quote specifically “Good enough for Hot join/Yoloq fun but not much else category, and nothing in that category is strong enough to deserve nerfs."

Pistolwhip was meta a long time ago and it was nerfed hard because it offered too much for a single skill. Now we’re talking about an entire build and armour set and you try to justify by saying its not ran outside of hotjoins?

Reality is Arenanet will nerf what the players QQ the most about and that’s the truth. If this thread gets enough attention to be noticed by so many people jumping on the nerf thief bandwagon then it will happen. None of you have any real power except the masses. Majority rules in this world guys.

evilapprentice.6379:

Toxsa.2701:

Nephrite.6954:

If only anet would stop trying make Thieves a condition class then it’ll definitely help boost our power builds. Cause then people would stop complaining about how broken we are ==.

+1 this. Thief shouldn’t be able to have access to easy confusion, bleeds and torment. Their specialty should be poison and raw damage. I rather most thieves go direct damage in WvW than abusing the condition specs . They shouldn’t be able to tick so much damage while stealthing /evading/ teleporting none stop.

Sad thing is Anet is going to make Thief’s condition spec even stronger in HoT… lol
Gonna enjoy thieves taking down the whole lord room in Stronghold by spamming bleed trap procs while stealthing and evading

It’s pretty obvious anything I say is going to fall on deaf ears, so here’s a challenge.

Take this spec into some ranked que, play it for a week, then come back here and tell me how ridiculously OP condi thief was and how every one of your fights was an absolute breeze.

Hell, you can even equip weapons if you like – that should make the entire thing a cakewalk! But you’ve got to keep the traits, utilities, heal and elite as is.

You go and do that for a week, then we can talk about how broken condi this is. Until then, we can keep pinning the blame on Dire/Perplexity.

Someone ran a caltrops + uncatchable build in sPvP and made a video. He used S/D for the Sword2 immob, and flanking strike for added survivability. I don’t recall if it was ranked or unraked, but some of his opponents included players from The Abjured.

But the real point of Mango’s vid again is just that dire + perplex is stupid, and dire + perplex isn’t available in sPvP, so I’m not entirely sure why we’re even talking about ranked. But anyway, here’s the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_F1MJhHkQ0

Definitely not broken, or even optimal in sPvP, but it was moderately effective and excelled in a few of the matchups.

Edit: Whoops, forgot to paste the video link in.

Where’s the video?

Nice video OP, I would commend you on how awesome and skilled you are, but we all know no one is ever good in this sub-forum, the players you fight just suck

RedSpectrum.1975:

Nice video OP, I would commend you on how awesome and skilled you are, but we all know no one is ever good in this sub-forum, the players you fight just suck

Except they don’t? tbh most of the people in this thread saying they “suck” would probably get destroyed by these players, considering the lack of understanding of the game you’re all displaying here.

Like I think you missed the entire point of the thread though, it’s been stated multiple times, he’s not trying to brag about skill or anything, just trying to show how broken full dire perplex thief is. It’s right there in the OP.

Forgot to say confusion will have 2 ticks a normal one overtime another one on foe skill usage all damaging conditions seem to get a change in their scaling and base damage also I don’t need to remind the Feline Grace and SA shaves. This thread can rest in peace until those changes are live.

Folie.7980:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Nice video OP, I would commend you on how awesome and skilled you are, but we all know no one is ever good in this sub-forum, the players you fight just suck

Except they don’t? tbh most of the people in this thread saying they “suck” would probably get destroyed by these players, considering the lack of understanding of the game you’re all displaying here.

Like I think you missed the entire point of the thread though, it’s been stated multiple times, he’s not trying to brag about skill or anything, just trying to show how broken full dire perplex thief is. It’s right there in the OP.

And I think you missed the sarcasm…

where is tacquito bandito ?_?

mango.9267:

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlmgJOkFdfM

At the urging of some friends, I’ve uploaded a sequel to my first weaponless video.

Discussion

Last time, my intent was primarily to entertain, but also to shed some light on just how broken condition thieves are. However, instead of that, the discussion more or less devolved into one big criticism of “your opponents are all bad, so condi teef isn’t OP”.

In an effort to respond to that, I’ve only included clips against players I would consider at least decent, from a variety of WvW tiers. Every one featured in this video is competent, and I’d even go so far as to say that some of them are very good.

Condition thieves (especially dire with perplexity/balthazar/krait) are incredibly powerful in small scale scenarios, with almost no risk attached. The active defenses from acro-trickery allow me to avoid most telegraphed bursts and the passive sustain from full dire lets me straight up tank everything else.

As always, comments, criticisms, suggestions are all welcome.

Addendum

I’d also like to point out a couple of things about last refuge/hard to catch.

1) Last refuge: In a couple of the clips, I would have definitely lost without the last refuge proc. Granted, it’s not as much of an issue for this build because this build doesn’t use weapons, but at higher levels of play, last refuge still saves you more often than it kills you.

2) Hard to catch: It’s actually quite strong in duels. A lot of thieves like to steal + backstab, but hard to catch will automatically shadowstep you away (faster than any human could react), causing the backstab to miss entirely. Similarly, a lot of S/F eles gale —> phoenix mechanically, and hard to catch will move you out of phoenix automatically.

Those players weren’t too bad…its just that your build counter theirs. I believe if given an opportunity to change the build, the results will be different.

This will give your opponents a very high chance of winning.
-Ele going Diamond Skin, Ether Renewal, Cleansing Flames plus minus condi duration gear/food.
-Engi going AR, plus minus condi duration gear/food
-Thief just stay in SB or P/P. No reason to try to get close. Just stay at range and pew pew. Throw in TG elite for the hell of it.
-Ranger, just build for condi removal and pew pew?
-Mesmer, phastasm build with arcane thievery plus null field. Or hybrid build and just create clone with DE. Your GS clones should be able to stack bleed nicely. Proceed to run around in a circle?
-Warrior, shoutbow…enough said?
-Necro, shouldn’t have a problem…
-Guardian, don’t know much about them…

At the end of the day, I really don’t see your point other than Feline Grace being strong but that is going to be fixed in the expansion.

Gabriell.4856:

mango.9267:

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlmgJOkFdfM

At the urging of some friends, I’ve uploaded a sequel to my first weaponless video.

Discussion

Last time, my intent was primarily to entertain, but also to shed some light on just how broken condition thieves are. However, instead of that, the discussion more or less devolved into one big criticism of “your opponents are all bad, so condi teef isn’t OP”.

In an effort to respond to that, I’ve only included clips against players I would consider at least decent, from a variety of WvW tiers. Every one featured in this video is competent, and I’d even go so far as to say that some of them are very good.

Condition thieves (especially dire with perplexity/balthazar/krait) are incredibly powerful in small scale scenarios, with almost no risk attached. The active defenses from acro-trickery allow me to avoid most telegraphed bursts and the passive sustain from full dire lets me straight up tank everything else.

As always, comments, criticisms, suggestions are all welcome.

Addendum

I’d also like to point out a couple of things about last refuge/hard to catch.

1) Last refuge: In a couple of the clips, I would have definitely lost without the last refuge proc. Granted, it’s not as much of an issue for this build because this build doesn’t use weapons, but at higher levels of play, last refuge still saves you more often than it kills you.

2) Hard to catch: It’s actually quite strong in duels. A lot of thieves like to steal + backstab, but hard to catch will automatically shadowstep you away (faster than any human could react), causing the backstab to miss entirely. Similarly, a lot of S/F eles gale —> phoenix mechanically, and hard to catch will move you out of phoenix automatically.

Those players weren’t too bad…its just that your build counter theirs. I believe if given an opportunity to change the build, the results will be different.

This will give your opponents a very high chance of winning.
-Ele going Diamond Skin, Ether Renewal, Cleansing Flames plus minus condi duration gear/food.
-Engi going AR, plus minus condi duration gear/food
-Thief just stay in SB or P/P. No reason to try to get close. Just stay at range and pew pew. Throw in TG elite for the hell of it.
-Ranger, just build for condi removal and pew pew?
-Mesmer, phastasm build with arcane thievery plus null field. Or hybrid build and just create clone with DE. Your GS clones should be able to stack bleed nicely. Proceed to run around in a circle?
-Warrior, shoutbow…enough said?
-Necro, shouldn’t have a problem…
-Guardian, don’t know much about them…

At the end of the day, I really don’t see your point other than Feline Grace being strong but that is going to be fixed in the expansion.

And you need to run a “hard counter” to fight a weaponless opponent lol..
Does that tell you something? That with just utilities and gears, thief is still able to dominate regular builds? If he runs a typical P/D+D/P, what then? Diamond skin is a rare case btw.

Sagat.3285:

Forgot to say confusion will have 2 ticks a normal one overtime another one on foe skill usage all damaging conditions seem to get a change in their scaling and base damage also I don’t need to remind the Feline Grace and SA shaves. This thread can rest in peace until those changes are live.

dat crate from engi lol

fun video

Cynz.9437:

dat crate from engi lol

fun video

lol, yea, that was rough to watch. How frustrated that engi must be, thought I also saw a rocket turret in there too.

Darn, reading some comments in this thread…

Screaming and kicking and spitting vitriol at OP rather than willing to admit that maybe… maybe there is a certain combination of thief skills, traits and runes that might be a bit too powerful and need an adjustment.

Just wow. Thief subforum at its best.

Red Jay.2516:

Darn, reading some comments in this thread…

Screaming and kicking and spitting vitriol at OP rather than willing to admit that maybe… maybe there is a certain combination of thief skills, traits and runes that might be a bit too powerful and need an adjustment.

Just wow. Thief subforum at its best.

there are ways to beat his build, it is pretty much useless in competitive pvp for example… besides it is just a youtube video, obviously those contain best shots, i think it did serve it’s purpose and was fun to watch imo

chews popcorn intently watching this thread

Condi is the most faceroll way to play this game as ANY class.

The video not only highlights how broken a thief with dire/perplexity but also how strong condi is overall.

Toxsa.2701:

Gabriell.4856:

mango.9267:

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlmgJOkFdfM

At the urging of some friends, I’ve uploaded a sequel to my first weaponless video.

Discussion

Last time, my intent was primarily to entertain, but also to shed some light on just how broken condition thieves are. However, instead of that, the discussion more or less devolved into one big criticism of “your opponents are all bad, so condi teef isn’t OP”.

In an effort to respond to that, I’ve only included clips against players I would consider at least decent, from a variety of WvW tiers. Every one featured in this video is competent, and I’d even go so far as to say that some of them are very good.

Condition thieves (especially dire with perplexity/balthazar/krait) are incredibly powerful in small scale scenarios, with almost no risk attached. The active defenses from acro-trickery allow me to avoid most telegraphed bursts and the passive sustain from full dire lets me straight up tank everything else.

As always, comments, criticisms, suggestions are all welcome.

Addendum

I’d also like to point out a couple of things about last refuge/hard to catch.

1) Last refuge: In a couple of the clips, I would have definitely lost without the last refuge proc. Granted, it’s not as much of an issue for this build because this build doesn’t use weapons, but at higher levels of play, last refuge still saves you more often than it kills you.

2) Hard to catch: It’s actually quite strong in duels. A lot of thieves like to steal + backstab, but hard to catch will automatically shadowstep you away (faster than any human could react), causing the backstab to miss entirely. Similarly, a lot of S/F eles gale —> phoenix mechanically, and hard to catch will move you out of phoenix automatically.

Those players weren’t too bad…its just that your build counter theirs. I believe if given an opportunity to change the build, the results will be different.

This will give your opponents a very high chance of winning.
-Ele going Diamond Skin, Ether Renewal, Cleansing Flames plus minus condi duration gear/food.
-Engi going AR, plus minus condi duration gear/food
-Thief just stay in SB or P/P. No reason to try to get close. Just stay at range and pew pew. Throw in TG elite for the hell of it.
-Ranger, just build for condi removal and pew pew?
-Mesmer, phastasm build with arcane thievery plus null field. Or hybrid build and just create clone with DE. Your GS clones should be able to stack bleed nicely. Proceed to run around in a circle?
-Warrior, shoutbow…enough said?
-Necro, shouldn’t have a problem…
-Guardian, don’t know much about them…

At the end of the day, I really don’t see your point other than Feline Grace being strong but that is going to be fixed in the expansion.

And you need to run a “hard counter” to fight a weaponless opponent lol..
Does that tell you something? That with just utilities and gears, thief is still able to dominate regular builds? If he runs a typical P/D+D/P, what then? Diamond skin is a rare case btw.

LOL. Let me bring my ranger condi trap build w/o weapon then. Using even better trap like burning and bleed and if I can hit him with entangle after withdraw then gg. What was your point again?

Again, there are builds that can match that of his build even if he is using weapon.

Gabriell.4856:

Toxsa.2701:

Gabriell.4856:

mango.9267:

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlmgJOkFdfM

At the urging of some friends, I’ve uploaded a sequel to my first weaponless video.

Discussion

Last time, my intent was primarily to entertain, but also to shed some light on just how broken condition thieves are. However, instead of that, the discussion more or less devolved into one big criticism of “your opponents are all bad, so condi teef isn’t OP”.

In an effort to respond to that, I’ve only included clips against players I would consider at least decent, from a variety of WvW tiers. Every one featured in this video is competent, and I’d even go so far as to say that some of them are very good.

Condition thieves (especially dire with perplexity/balthazar/krait) are incredibly powerful in small scale scenarios, with almost no risk attached. The active defenses from acro-trickery allow me to avoid most telegraphed bursts and the passive sustain from full dire lets me straight up tank everything else.

As always, comments, criticisms, suggestions are all welcome.

Addendum

I’d also like to point out a couple of things about last refuge/hard to catch.

1) Last refuge: In a couple of the clips, I would have definitely lost without the last refuge proc. Granted, it’s not as much of an issue for this build because this build doesn’t use weapons, but at higher levels of play, last refuge still saves you more often than it kills you.

2) Hard to catch: It’s actually quite strong in duels. A lot of thieves like to steal + backstab, but hard to catch will automatically shadowstep you away (faster than any human could react), causing the backstab to miss entirely. Similarly, a lot of S/F eles gale —> phoenix mechanically, and hard to catch will move you out of phoenix automatically.

Those players weren’t too bad…its just that your build counter theirs. I believe if given an opportunity to change the build, the results will be different.

This will give your opponents a very high chance of winning.
-Ele going Diamond Skin, Ether Renewal, Cleansing Flames plus minus condi duration gear/food.
-Engi going AR, plus minus condi duration gear/food
-Thief just stay in SB or P/P. No reason to try to get close. Just stay at range and pew pew. Throw in TG elite for the hell of it.
-Ranger, just build for condi removal and pew pew?
-Mesmer, phastasm build with arcane thievery plus null field. Or hybrid build and just create clone with DE. Your GS clones should be able to stack bleed nicely. Proceed to run around in a circle?
-Warrior, shoutbow…enough said?
-Necro, shouldn’t have a problem…
-Guardian, don’t know much about them…

At the end of the day, I really don’t see your point other than Feline Grace being strong but that is going to be fixed in the expansion.

And you need to run a “hard counter” to fight a weaponless opponent lol..
Does that tell you something? That with just utilities and gears, thief is still able to dominate regular builds? If he runs a typical P/D+D/P, what then? Diamond skin is a rare case btw.

LOL. Let me bring my ranger condi trap build w/o weapon then. Using even better trap like burning and bleed and if I can hit him with entangle after withdraw then gg. What was your point again?

Again, there are builds that can match that of his build even if he is using weapon.

Yeah please make a video about it
Looking forward to it.

Bret.6940:

This will most likely be my last post, i pulled this from reddit. “Keep in mind I didn’t include my losses (for obvious reasons), and even good players mess up eventually.” Sure i can agree with that but what i made out is your trying to say dire perplex is op so the fact you lost some duels means you choose not to put (skilled, or good) people in your video. Instead you gave these guys a heads up and they still lost, so i have to make the assumption they arent the best or you asked them for the sake of the video for you to just flat out loose to you. The mesmer shoulda have moaed, eles should have brought Diamond Skin.

First of all T1 has never been the primary spot of skilled players as far as roaming. Secondly condi thief has been overpowered forever, its 100% the best 1v1 build available, as long as you run carrion perplex. Thirdly, overall shadow arts should be nerfed, it makes thief stupid easy to play with zero effort. Overall it may be the most overpowered trait line in the game bar maybe arcana, and explosives.

Yam.2891:

where is tacquito bandito ?_?

Rest assured, he’s my #1 fangurl, and we already have a weaponless revenant duel set up for whenever the expansion drops.

Gabriell.4856:

Those players weren’t too bad…its just that your build counter theirs. I believe if given an opportunity to change the build, the results will be different.
.
.
At the end of the day, I really don’t see your point other than Feline Grace being strong but that is going to be fixed in the expansion.

As I said earlier, it kinda defeats the purpose of dueling to counter your opponents build. Yes, a DS ele will win 100% of the time, but the point of dueling is to practice your own build or to have fun. And many of the builds in the video are meta or pretty close to meta, yet still suffer some losses to a weaponless dire thief.

Cynz.9437:

Red Jay.2516:

Darn, reading some comments in this thread…

Screaming and kicking and spitting vitriol at OP rather than willing to admit that maybe… maybe there is a certain combination of thief skills, traits and runes that might be a bit too powerful and need an adjustment.

Just wow. Thief subforum at its best.

there are ways to beat his build, it is pretty much useless in competitive pvp for example… besides it is just a youtube video, obviously those contain best shots, i think it did serve it’s purpose and was fun to watch imo

Well, dire/plex don’t exist in PvP, thankfully. I do think caltrops and needle trap are underestimated in PvP, but thieves aren’t usually an on-point bruiser, so very few people run them.

Gabriell.4856:

LOL. Let me bring my ranger condi trap build w/o weapon then. Using even better trap like burning and bleed and if I can hit him with entangle after withdraw then gg. What was your point again?

Again, there are builds that can match that of his build even if he is using weapon.

I’ve actually fought a weaponless trap ranger. That build is 100% no joke. I don’t want to derail the thread, but I think some survival condi ranger builds are also problematic. Just because there are stronger builds out there doesn’t mean this one isn’t also strong.

Red Jay.2516:

Darn, reading some comments in this thread…

Screaming and kicking and spitting vitriol at OP rather than willing to admit that maybe… maybe there is a certain combination of thief skills, traits and runes that might be a bit too powerful and need an adjustment.

Just wow. Thief subforum at its best.

This is actually fairly tame for this subforum, and it’s much better than the reception on my first weaponless video. I don’t expect everyone to agree, so I welcome the discussion that follows.

Bret.6940:

if you think your that good without weapons come try that on BG and JQ in wvw and when you face people that know how to play you will see its a l2p

Nice joke brah. The only place where you’ll find players that are actually good is PvP… which is basically dead at this point.. so yeah. THERE ARE NO GOOD PLAYERS ANYMORE.

Red Jay.2516:

Darn, reading some comments in this thread…

Screaming and kicking and spitting vitriol at OP rather than willing to admit that maybe… maybe there is a certain combination of thief skills, traits and runes that might be a bit too powerful and need an adjustment.

Just wow. Thief subforum at its best.

I was honestly unaware that disagreeing with OP’s assessment and offering logic and reasoning were considered “Screaming, kicking, and spitting vitriol”. Of course I am on the thief boards with it’s usual band of automatic detractors, so perhaps that’s my fault.

On that topic, what exactly does your post add to the conversation? You haven’t offered any opinion worth noting, nor does it offer any logic/reasoning (although how could it, without a point to support)? All you’ve done is occupy some space on a screen with empty text.

My assertion is that the issue here (if there is an issue at all, see below for details) is a result of Dire stats/Perplexity runes/Condi duration food (things only available in WvW), not the thief class itself. Below, I’ll repeat my logic and reasoning for you. If you have any sort of logical counter-argument, please feel free to post that.

- Since this spec doesn’t rely on SA to be effective, it has the potential to be useful in PvP. Since it’s not considered a PvP meta spec, the thief skills themselves probably aren’t strong enough to be considered the issue in “a combination of thief skills, traits and runes that might be a bit too powerful and need an adjustment.” Perhaps the Gear/Runes/Food are, but the thief itself is not.

- No game mode is won by dueling. A WvW highlight reel of duels does not give you any useful metrics to determine whether or not a build is “OP” or not, because efficacy in a duel is not directly or even semi-directly translatable into winning a PvP/WvW match.

- Even if we assume the opponents in this video were average or above average players, they clearly did not know thief well enough to read Mango’s spec. I play thief – when I see a thief standing on the other side of a Caltrops field, with no weapons equipped, and see his hands moving, it’s safe to assume it’s scorpion wire and just dodge it. This video took advantage of the fact that the opponents weren’t sure what his build was trying to do, and didn’t know what skills to dodge.

So there you go. If there is a problem with this build (because remember, WvW duels don’t “prove” anything), then it lies in Dire/Perplexity/Food. Like I said, if you have any relevant thought that counters my argument, I invite you to respond. I’m not holding my breath though.

mango.9267:

Cynz.9437:

Red Jay.2516:

Darn, reading some comments in this thread…

Screaming and kicking and spitting vitriol at OP rather than willing to admit that maybe… maybe there is a certain combination of thief skills, traits and runes that might be a bit too powerful and need an adjustment.

Just wow. Thief subforum at its best.

there are ways to beat his build, it is pretty much useless in competitive pvp for example… besides it is just a youtube video, obviously those contain best shots, i think it did serve it’s purpose and was fun to watch imo

Well, dire/plex don’t exist in PvP, thankfully. I do think caltrops and needle trap are underestimated in PvP, but thieves aren’t usually an on-point bruiser, so very few people run them.

that build would get smoked in competitive pvp… pvp is not built of duels, most of the time it is outnumbered fights and rotation… his build has less moblity than common thief builds and his job (condis) is done better by other classes (see engis/necros)… he would just crumble under pressure.

Idk why people freak out so much honestly, yes the build is annoying (like anything in wvw) but wvw was never supposed to be balanced (even devs admitted it) and you can always create build that counters his. Crying OP is silly, i am sure you can do similar things with classes that have high dmg utilities/F1,F2 etc.

As a thief, I’m astounded that people are trying to defend a build that is winning against competent players without weapons.

Yes, people underestimate the difficulty of playing thief, but OP beat an ele while holding a crate.

Come on.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

As a thief, I’m astounded that people are trying to defend a build that is winning against competent players without weapons.

Yes, people underestimate the difficulty of playing thief, but OP beat an ele while holding a crate.

Come on.

competent? where?

Yea, it is a little shocking that there are certain people either directly or indirectly defending this broken synergy with claims that “it can be hard countered”, “those guys need to l2p”, “that build would be useless in competitive pvp”.

All this reminds me of this southpark episode about sex addiction. Deep down, I’m sure we all know the synergy of this build is OP, but some of us are having so much carefree fun with it that we have to somehow defend it to maintain the joyride into the expansion and beyond.

i never played that build…. i play trickery/executioner dp (even in wvw), great assumption tho~

Cynz.9437:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

As a thief, I’m astounded that people are trying to defend a build that is winning against competent players without weapons.

Yes, people underestimate the difficulty of playing thief, but OP beat an ele while holding a crate.

Come on.

competent? where?

I didnt say good.

I said competent.

Entertaining.

Great QQ bait thread.

I beat a respected ele running diamond skin 6/10 times on my rabid condi thief running perplexity runes… maybe I’m just too strong.

Sadrien.3470:

I beat a respected ele running diamond skin 6/10 times on my rabid condi thief running perplexity runes… maybe I’m just too strong.

Once below that 90% it’s easy

OP should just make another video with weapons to demonstrate that the problem actually needs attention.

Just thinking about the extra some-odd 18 stacks of bleeding, multiple torment, and stealth/blind uptime is enough to make me cringe.

If dire/perplexity was not a possibility, this wouldn’t even be remotely possible.

DeceiverX.8361:

OP should just make another video with weapons to demonstrate that the problem actually needs attention.

Just thinking about the extra some-odd 18 stacks of bleeding, multiple torment, and stealth/blind uptime is enough to make me cringe.

If dire/perplexity was not a possibility, this wouldn’t even be remotely possible.

I don’t see a lot of people saying “There’s absolutely no problem with this spec.” Most people (myself included) are pointing at Dire/Perplexity/Condi duration food (WvW only crap) as the issue. The problem is players with little critical thinking skills popping up to holler “Wow look at how broken thief is, and all these players defending it because they just want to stay broken” has muddied the conversation a bit.

Great video. The fights you posted definitely prove your point.

If WvW seemed to really have any purpose or meaning, then I could see this as unfair, but since this is still a really weak build for sPvP and wouldn’t do much in a large-scale encounter, I can understand why it’s gone un-nerfed.

That being said, I see this as more of a problem with WvW than with the build itself.

There is only one option. Siege boxes need to be nerfed

evilapprentice.6379:

DeceiverX.8361:

OP should just make another video with weapons to demonstrate that the problem actually needs attention.

Just thinking about the extra some-odd 18 stacks of bleeding, multiple torment, and stealth/blind uptime is enough to make me cringe.

If dire/perplexity was not a possibility, this wouldn’t even be remotely possible.

I don’t see a lot of people saying “There’s absolutely no problem with this spec.” Most people (myself included) are pointing at Dire/Perplexity/Condi duration food (WvW only crap) as the issue. The problem is players with little critical thinking skills popping up to holler “Wow look at how broken thief is, and all these players defending it because they just want to stay broken” has muddied the conversation a bit.

But that’s the thing, though. WvW, aside from a few builds like this, is actually really balanced. There are by far way more viable build choices available for every class for roles than in sPvP, and frankly, the faster-pace of the combat IMHO makes for a better PvP environment where thinking and reacting fast both matter and the game isn’t so largely based around builds and counter-builds.

Yes, the GWEN meta exists for blobbing, but a meta will always exist, and what is outside of GWEN can easily have roles performing other things than the GWEN builds.

I genuinely believe static condition duration food (both + and -) should be removed from the game as a whole. it serves no purpose than to screw over WvW balance and bolster what is already an overpowered spec from dire/perplex in general and supports repeated condi dumps with little negatives.

DeceiverX.8361:

I genuinely believe static condition duration food (both + and -) should be removed from the game as a whole. it serves no purpose than to screw over WvW balance and bolster what is already an overpowered spec from dire/perplex in general and supports repeated condi dumps with little negatives.

I agree with everything you’ve said, but just to be a bit pedantic, I wasn’t running +40% condi duration food, nor was I running a condi damage wrench. The spec is already OP without the food, and the food just makes it worse

Not saying you were or weren’t so much as it throw things off kilter in general. With all conditions applying in a stacking fashion with the HoT changes, there are no further benefits to keeping this around in PvE aside from the odd condition like torment which usually doesn’t get capped, and just like every other damage source (aside from fire/air, which I also would like to see replaced with with just better ferocity/precision-based sigils in general), such DPS should need to be built around using gear, with food to augment it, not apply 40% more damage.

Just wanted to say that his opponents were definitely competent!

I’ve dueled at least half those players, and I was surprised to see some of the people that made it into the video to say the least.

Yes, I do think dire plex condi thief gets too much for the “risk” involved. I do beat them a decent bit by greatly outplaying them (as a Mesmer, no less); but, when I lose to one occasionally, it just feels really silly…