Guild Wars 2

Warning: The bread and butter skill for my P/P build remains Unload. If this offends you, feel free to leave the page, as this video is not for you. I have a breakdown of the P/P skills below, with reasoning on why Unload is still the most effective P/P skill.

Background: When I hit 80 and started to WvW, people told me P/P was weaker than other weapon builds such as Backstab and Pistol Bleeds. Problem is, I didn’t want to do what everyone else was already doing.

Been playing WvW for a few weeks now, and feeling pretty good about sticking to my guns. I don’t see a lot of P/P Thief WvW vids out there, so I decided to post my own to entertain some of you.

I still have much to improve, and this video is not meant to show off. Until I can kill 3 level 80s by myself in a single fight, I don’t consider myself pro. Rather, I’d like to gather constructive feedback about my gameplay from the real Thief pros out there, so I can eventually do just that: reach my goal of being able to kill 3 level 80s at once.

Video(s)
Created 12/22/2012

Regarding Music: After taking in feedback from my first two videos, I have decided to opt for instrumentals over my preferred choice of music, 90’s rap, due to possible sensitivity issues. I hope it serves the widest group of people in terms of taste.

P/P Skill Usage Analysis

Unload vs Body Shot: Unload costs 5 initiative, Body Shot costs 3. The question now becomes whether the 5 stacks on vulnerability (roughly 5% increase in damage to the target) and saving 2 extra initiative is worth sacrificing about 75% of the damage an Unload would have otherwise done. The answer is no. 5% increase in future damage does not make up for the 75% loss of damage an Unload would have otherwise done.

Unload vs Headshot: Unload costs 5 initiative, Headshot costs 4. The question now becomes whether the 1/4 second daze effect on Headshot and saving 1 extra initiative is worth sacrificing about 75% of the damage an Unload would have done. The answer is no, since that 1/4 second daze effect is negligible in the case of a non-spike build such as the one I am using. When used to interrupt a healing skill for example, I believe the daze delays the enemy’s heal for around 3 seconds. 3 seconds on a non-spike build does not give me enough time to burst him down before he gets off the heal skill again.

Unload vs Black Powder: Unload costs 5 initiative, Black Powder costs 6. The question now becomes whether or not Black Powder’s aoe of blind is worth sacrificing about 75% of the damage an Unload would have done, and also an extra initiative. The answer is no. Black Powder only blinds if the target is within the field of powder, which is your current location. Other than that, it blinds once. This skill is worthless against ranged enemies and casters. Blind does not stack, either.

Hence, if my logic holds, Unload remains the most efficient and effective P/P skill. I refuse to lower my effectiveness just so that people stop hating on the 3 spam. If there is a more effective way to play P/P Thief, or if my logic on the above skills is flawed, I have no objection if someone sincerely explains so.

Bind your keys clicking is awful

Howdy. Liked your vid. Very cool.

Would you mind posting your build? I really do not know to much about p/p, but I would be interested in trying it.

Thanks!

every time a thief clicks in GW2 be it pve or pvp. we get nerfed

STOP CLICKING 11!!!!!!

krixis.9538:

every time a thief clicks in GW2 be it pve or pvp. we get nerfed

STOP CLICKING 11!!!!!!

Don’t be so harsh. Every game needs at least one class or build easy enough to play such that even clickers can do well with it.

change 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 to q, e, r, f, g. . .

then change 6, 7, 8, 9, 0 to z, x, c, v, b. . .

so you can stop clicking. you could use key modifiers if you wanted, but i like this setup

Oozo.7856:

krixis.9538:

every time a thief clicks in GW2 be it pve or pvp. we get nerfed

STOP CLICKING 11!!!!!!

Don’t be so harsh. Every game needs at least one class or build easy enough to play such that even clickers can do well with it.

Get off your soap box. There’s 10 abilities. Clickers can “do well” with anything.

Clicking is always the wrong choice, but lets be real about how low the skill cap for ability use is across the board…

Use Black Powder when finishing or bring P/D (maybe even D/D) as secondary set when roaming. P/D or D/D may also get you out of situations you would be otherwise helpless in with CnD. Every good thief brings a SB aswell for large scale battles, which you should have equiped now.

@ The Primary: If you watched the whole video, you should see I do have SB equipped for Infiltrator’s Arrow.

Don’t see why there’s so many haters on how I choose to activate my skills.

I’ve actually been a non-clicker before too, but I actually found clicking more effective for me. I actually use clicking for my personal effectiveness, so I can use the fingers on both hands instead of primarily relying on one. My weapon skills are activated by keyboard, utilities by click.

What’s the big deal that makes it so offensive to everyone’s business? Instead of discussing P/P Thief, everyone’s raging like I stole their car or something.

Let me explain to you:

thief clicking && zoom to nearly first person == bad player .

But nice to see that there are either enough bad players on other classes too or they are completely outgeared / lowlevel….

I mean, i really don’t know why you feel so offended ?
What did you expect ?

The people just rate your skill, some even give you tips to improve.
You attack nub players using all your utilities + elite and spam unload …. great play !

lvis.3824:

Let me explain to you:
thief clicking && zoom to nearly first person == bad player .

Clarify on why someone who chooses to use click for his/her efficiency is considered bad. Also, 99% of the whole video was in zoomed out 3rd person…

lvis.3824:

But nice to see that there are either enough bad players on other classes too or they are completely outgeared / lowlevel….

Right, so I have to look very closely every time I fight someone in WvW, right? If it doesn’t seem like they have all exotics on, I should run away right? Also, I believe only 2 instances of the video had me fighting a green arrow 1v1. The other 2-3 instances involving a green arrow, I was outnumbered.

lvis.3824:

I mean, i really don’t know why you feel so offended ?
What did you expect ?

lol…I don’t think I’m the one that’s offended. Look at other people’s posts, including your own very productive post here.

lvis.3824:

The people just rate your skill, some even give you tips to improve.
You attack nub players using all your utilities + elite and spam unload …. great play !

Yes, so when I kill players, suddenly they are all extremely noob. For 4 hours of playing, I suddenly kept running into all the noob players yesterday in WvW, right sir? As to the usual complaining about Unload, read the OP or don’t bother posting.

i will also agree you want to be zoomed out as much as possible. it’s all about situational awareness

dont forget, you asked for feedback in your OP

Xzygy.1452:

Oozo.7856:

krixis.9538:

every time a thief clicks in GW2 be it pve or pvp. we get nerfed

STOP CLICKING 11!!!!!!

Don’t be so harsh. Every game needs at least one class or build easy enough to play such that even clickers can do well with it.

Get off your soap box. There’s 10 abilities. Clickers can “do well” with anything.

Clicking is always the wrong choice, but lets be real about how low the skill cap for ability use is across the board…

Some abilities must be bound in order to use them fast enough to make a difference. Stunbreakers, DS for a necro, condition removals are just a few examples.

Also, anti-burst abilities like mist form, shelter, renewed focus, etc etc…

Oozo.7856:

Don’t be so harsh. Every game needs at least one class or build easy enough to play such that even clickers can do well with it.

Eheh so true.
@op: the day you will meet a decent player with thieves guild on cd you will quickly realize why so many ppl told you not to spec p/p. No offence m8, that’s just reality. I like p/p too, looks c00l idd, sadly it’s nothing more than that.
Oh and tbh i’m almost glad p/p sucks as it is, i don’t want thieves to roflstomp everyone spamming #3. They should rework the whole set, buffing pistol damage is not the solution.

This is my issue with unload thieves…

>sees some one use unload <- very obvious
>dodges <- long cast time gives you plenty of time to do this
>damage mitigated to laughable numbers & lots of ini lost

If you watch the vid… these people don’t seem to know how to dodge worth beans.

No offense meant to the OP, just my 2 cents on the weapon set.

Also head shot is worth it’s cost in team fights (not so much 1vs). Wonderful skill to interrupt someone a short while (skills/heals/utilities/elites). It’ll also interrupt stomping.

Redscope.6215:

Ele at the end of the video is not a nub, by any means.

I disagree with that… anyone that sits there and just soaks up unload damage like that is a noob. Other than when she tries to run away, she doesn’t dodge once. This isn’t WoW. Learn to dodge or get used to dying.

Redscope.6215:

lvis.3824:

I mean, i really don’t know why you feel so offended ?
What did you expect ?

You can’t post on the thief forum with the expectation of being well-received. This class and its forum are headed-up by the players who only play a particular class because they want the greatest opportunity to win. Those types of people are usually kitten holes.

I guess that’s what everyone is thinking then. Well, if you guys are angry that I’m beating people in the video in a way you think is cheap, so be it. Merry Christmas to you all.

To OP , don’t take all this to the head, I’ve learned that in this forum, thieves get no love, except from other thieves, and even then, sometimes you only get love from othe thieves that play the same weaponset

Nice vid and seems you found a way to have fun in this game and that’s cool. Now think of all those other players who posted vids and now imagine you went up against any of them, you will get slaughtered. Sorry bro but its not there, P/P is some weird hybrid thing that Anet put together with box tape, it dose not work.

Even you said it when analyzing the other P/P abilities, they simply suck! For P/P to work it needs a way to enter stealth like CnD…some way of consistently using stealth.

Thanks for the vid. I thought it was entertaining!

hey doctor.. in my opinion, PP is best used as a secondary weapon set rather than primary

i think it works best when the enemy is about 50% life, and you can switch to pp, move out of melee range, and hit them with a sneak attack followed by unload.. use haste for this combo and u can easily finish off someone who has 8k of life left.

i am amazed ppl dont realise how effective pp can be in certain situations.

therefore, can i suggest you try using a melee weapon set with pp and drop the sb.. (still keep the sb in your inventory to move around the map)

nice vid btw

Doctor Manchu, I can’t watch your in China right now but I’ll say this about the P/P weapon-set.

P/P was designed for dungeon boss-fights, and that is why it is unpopular in WvW. The weapon set excels at supporting a dungeon raid party against a single powerful foe.

• Auto-attacks deal condition damage, which are useful against bosses with high toughness. Sneak attack is basically auto-attack spam.

• Unlike the auto-attack, Body Shot is a cheap guaranteed projectile finisher (useful for capitalizing on delicious combo fields) and vulnerability debuff applier. This significantly amplifies a party’s DPS against a difficult boss.

• Unload provides burst DPS when condition damage is unfavorable.

• Headshots strip defiance, and are guaranteed projectile finishers (not cheap like Body Shot however).

• Black Powder protects the Thief against melee mobs, and is a Smoke Field.

It is unwise to use P/P in WvW, except perhaps as an element of surprise (because no one expects you to pull out dual pistols). Its abilities are far too optimized for PvE boss fights.

Can you post me your build please? And what statts prefer.

Im not saying you’re bad. But in every fight you use TG…what did you do for 3 mins? Hide in a bush?

Also getting a drop on somebody is a 99% win rate.

Also you state you consider yourself pro when you beat 3 true 80s vs 1. What kind of 80s? full exo? that know how to play? Yeah Ill give you some rep then. Untill then keep do what most of (us) thiefs do. Ganking lowbies (level, gear and skill wise).

Keybinds will ALLWAYS be superior to clicking, Allways. Reason behind that is mouse steering, looking around and in some cases targeting. Every time you click a skill with your mouse you dont have complete control of your character, no matter how fast u do it. And if u use A,D to turn while clicking utilities with mouse then im at lost of words. However i notice that many ppl do that and they are easy kills Gw 2 have only 5 utility skills to keybind and learn, thats not hard at all… take wow for example … where u have to activelly manage 25-30 keybinds.

I enjoyed the video – it was entertaining and its nice to see someone using a different weaponset than the norm. Kudos to you and thanks for sharing.

plz post the build! i ve got tired of the 5-1-1-1-5-1-1-1 spam as a p/d, wanna try something new

WakkaJabba.3910:

plz post the build! i ve got tired of the 5-1-1-1-5-1-1-1 spam as a p/d, wanna try something new

More or less http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-cRRV;1Rwkb0J5BOkd0;9;59TEE;14;039A2;03O
Not difficult to figure it out on your own but anyways…

About playstyle…I will leave out clicking/zooming since it seems you wont change opinion no matter what.
Overall its only a WvWvW build.Thats pretty much sums it up.On WvWvW you can mix with the traits and play with your char freely(all that if you have high-end gear) and still be effective.Highly doubt its effectiveness on spvp.

Few friendly tips:Blinding powder/headshot is extremely useful skills and I havent seen you using them.(skipped few minutes ,sorry but gameplay seems pretty dull to me)
Use blinding powder to safe stomp…
Dont use roll for ini only for ini maybe later on someone cripple you or even worse chill/imob you.
Smoke+Cluster bomb stealths you.It might be useful since you have traited into stealth and there is not other option to get into stealth without uti.

Anyways personal joy matters most.

Hepan.2709:

Im not saying you’re bad. But in every fight you use TG…what did you do for 3 mins? Hide in a bush?

Also getting a drop on somebody is a 99% win rate.

Also you state you consider yourself pro when you beat 3 true 80s vs 1. What kind of 80s? full exo? that know how to play? Yeah Ill give you some rep then. Untill then keep do what most of (us) thiefs do. Ganking lowbies (level, gear and skill wise).

The beauty about WvW is that unlike sPvP, there’s usually a long wait time between fights. Hence, I’m not usually too worried about using Thieves guild. There were cases where I didn’t use Thieves Guild either.

Two of the fights in the video had me ganking lowbies 1v1. The other fights involving lowbies had me outnumbered, with only one instance where I got the jump on one.

As for gear and skill, I have no control over how others play, or what gear they have on. Lets just say I didn’t censor any of this. I even put in losses in the video.

Iohanna.4863:

Doctor Manchu, I can’t watch your in China right now

lol what….?

Quickhit.3620:

plz post the
Few friendly tips:Blinding powder/headshot is extremely useful skills and I havent seen you using them.(skipped few minutes ,sorry but gameplay seems pretty dull to me)
Use blinding powder to safe stomp…
Dont use roll for ini only for ini maybe later on someone cripple you or even worse chill/imob you.
Smoke+Cluster bomb stealths you.It might be useful since you have traited into stealth and there is not other option to get into stealth without uti.

Thanks man. Finally some constructive stuff! BTW what do you mean by the “smoke” part in Smoke+Cluster?

Nice vid, i usually ran this same setup with full zerker gear and 10/ 30/ 0/ 15/15 and i love using unload, the damage is not insane like a BS thief can do but it’s enough to get the job done.

DoctorkittenManchu.4203:

Thanks man. Finally some constructive stuff! BTW what do you mean by the “smoke” part in Smoke+Cluster?

True,it wasnt clear enough.Combo field:Smoke + Blast finisher(Cluster bomb) = Area stealth. (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Field) .It costs a lot of ini but who knows it might be useful one day. :P

Wow you’re taking some heat on the clicking thing lol

Anyhow, my baby thief is currently running p/p and d/d. I’m purely leveling her right now as I’m relatively new to the game however once she hits 80 I’d love to pvp John Woo style and have her decked out like an old west gunslinger as you have yours.

Glad to see you’re having fun and I think the point here is to play the way that will give you maximum enjoyment so yeah it accomplished it’s purpose and I’m glad you posted it.

Once I saw him clicking I stopped the vid… lol

finish those with black powder:
ranger, warrior, guardian, necro, engi

protects you from their normal hit and interrupt while also giving a bit of defense if someone else wants to interrupt you in melee range.

also as said that almost 1st person view removes your option to see attacks from larger distances.

And to be honest.. most parts of the video i’ve seen were against absolutly unexperienced players or probably people that run as soon as they see any random thief. Looking esp at those 2 guardians at 5:40 and 9:30 (9:30 was the worst joke ever.. running away of a thief that didn’t even got hp anymore..).