Guild Wars 2

Laika.8795:

Rainbow.3496:

SOMEONE EXPLAIN. I just want to be able still do 1vX..

You can, you just have to be good. Not going to be commonplace.

Reveal will happen EVERY TIME you leave stealth, not just when you do damage. Everything else will be 100% the same as it is right now.

“Stealth: The duration of Revealed has been increased to 4 seconds when coming out of stealth via an attack.”

Am I missing something here? What I see is that the debuff got a one second increase but still only applies when an attack is used. So, basically no change

blackgoat.5172:

Laika.8795:

Rainbow.3496:

SOMEONE EXPLAIN. I just want to be able still do 1vX..

You can, you just have to be good. Not going to be commonplace.

Reveal will happen EVERY TIME you leave stealth, not just when you do damage. Everything else will be 100% the same as it is right now.

“Stealth: The duration of Revealed has been increased to 4 seconds when coming out of stealth via an attack.”

Am I missing something here? What I see is that the debuff got a one second increase but still only applies when an attack is used. So, basically no change

A MASSIVE change. All PvE rotations that use the stealth attack are completely ruined. The flow is awkward and S/D is now defunct, as the one niche it managed to fill with Tactical Strike and the +Stun% Sigil is now gone.

Any niche the Thief had in PvE is now pointless, and if you didn’t have a Warrior already, just make one now.

Auesis.7301:

blackgoat.5172:

Laika.8795:

Rainbow.3496:

SOMEONE EXPLAIN. I just want to be able still do 1vX..

You can, you just have to be good. Not going to be commonplace.

Reveal will happen EVERY TIME you leave stealth, not just when you do damage. Everything else will be 100% the same as it is right now.

“Stealth: The duration of Revealed has been increased to 4 seconds when coming out of stealth via an attack.”

Am I missing something here? What I see is that the debuff got a one second increase but still only applies when an attack is used. So, basically no change

A MASSIVE change. All PvE rotations that use the stealth attack are completely ruined. The flow is awkward and S/D is now defunct, as the one niche it managed to fill with Tactical Strike and the +Stun% Sigil is now gone.

Any niche the Thief had in PvE is now pointless, and if you didn’t have a Warrior already, just make one now.

I shelved my Thief for an Ele a couple months ago anyway. I just like to keep up with the class so thanks for the info. Also I don’t see this stopping any of the whinning against theives in WvW since they can still chain stealth

blackgoat.5172:

Auesis.7301:

blackgoat.5172:

Laika.8795:

Rainbow.3496:

SOMEONE EXPLAIN. I just want to be able still do 1vX..

You can, you just have to be good. Not going to be commonplace.

Reveal will happen EVERY TIME you leave stealth, not just when you do damage. Everything else will be 100% the same as it is right now.

“Stealth: The duration of Revealed has been increased to 4 seconds when coming out of stealth via an attack.”

Am I missing something here? What I see is that the debuff got a one second increase but still only applies when an attack is used. So, basically no change

A MASSIVE change. All PvE rotations that use the stealth attack are completely ruined. The flow is awkward and S/D is now defunct, as the one niche it managed to fill with Tactical Strike and the +Stun% Sigil is now gone.

Any niche the Thief had in PvE is now pointless, and if you didn’t have a Warrior already, just make one now.

I shelved my Thief for an Ele a couple months ago anyway. I just like to keep up with the class so thanks for the info. Also I don’t see this stopping any of the whinning against theives in WvW since they can still chain stealth

I’ve pretty much switched entirely to Ele, too. And you’re exactly right, chain stealthing was the problem they were meant to be addressing with the “revealed after every stealth” route. That would have been perfect. Instead, we get a blanket nerf of this calibre.

Brutal Arts.6307:

JonPeters.5630:

As we played with the stealth changed mentioned in the SotG, we recognized that in conjunction with the change to culling this was an unpredictable change to make. We also felt that it was too big of a hit to these stealth professions, so we ended up pulling that change in favor of just increasing revealed duration by 1 second.

Is this a joke?

a dirty and mean joke… completely throws off the timing of everything. PvE combo of cnd, back stab, full aa rotation now no longer works. Horrible idea, hope they revert. The revealed debuff on all stealth exits was actually understandable. This isn’t.

Bailey.6892:

randomfightfan.4091:

only thing that I’m not looking forward to is the mug nerf… oh well, guess I’ll have to adapt…

What is the mug nerf?

guess they didn’t implement it. Instead they just kittenin our lap when it came to pve.

JonPeters.5630:

As we played with the stealth changed mentioned in the SotG, we recognized that in conjunction with the change to culling this was an unpredictable change to make. We also felt that it was too big of a hit to these stealth professions, so we ended up pulling that change in favor of just increasing revealed duration by 1 second.

Basically you are saing that you decided to change the initial stealth nerf in favor of Mesmers. ok understood, tks for pointing that out.

randomfightfan.4091:

Bailey.6892:

randomfightfan.4091:

only thing that I’m not looking forward to is the mug nerf… oh well, guess I’ll have to adapt…

What is the mug nerf?

guess they didn’t implement it. Instead they just kittenin our lap when it came to pve.

with the way they implement “fixes” to problems a mug nerf would probably be:

“Increased cooldown of Steal from 45 seconds to 60 seconds”

If/when they do decide to nerf it

I hope everybody is just jumping to conclusions and overreacting (including me) but on paper this nerf is disgusting and could potentially wreck thief in pvp. Really breaks my heart.

Please revert, please.

Dasorine.1964:

randomfightfan.4091:

Bailey.6892:

randomfightfan.4091:

only thing that I’m not looking forward to is the mug nerf… oh well, guess I’ll have to adapt…

What is the mug nerf?

guess they didn’t implement it. Instead they just kittenin our lap when it came to pve.

with the way they implement “fixes” to problems a mug nerf would probably be:

“Increased cooldown of Steal from 45 seconds to 60 seconds”

If/when they do decide to nerf it

Well you fail to recognize the problem with mug. Nerfing the cd on the ONLY profession skill by 15s would be almost as bad as what they just did to our stealth. No offense but this is a l2 kitten ue for you. Think about this in terms of all the other classes.

Warrior, burst skill 10s (5 if traited).
Necro, death shroud 10s (5 if traited).
Ranger has 2 pets to swap between that act as tanks and have all forms of unique abilities. The pets can do massive dmg to you in pvp if they are able to catch you, and if they can’t, they have active abilities that will make you a much easier target for the ranger itself.
Ele, gives 4 weapon slots on a 2s weapon swap cd or 10s if you’ve been there recently.
Guard, passive burning, passive health regen or 30s heal, passive aiges on 30s or active every 60s for entire team.
Engi, 4 more unique utility skills with all unique cds.
Mesmer, 4 unique abilities that deal dmg, apply confusion, cc, and apply invulnerability all on varying cds. Mesmer’s 1st shatter (on a 10s or 15s cd, don’t remember) can deal 9k+ dmg.

Now with all that in mind you still really think that mug is a huge problem and that it needs to drop down to a 60s cd? You just need to learn all the other classes before you jump to conclusions.

This is how they should have fixed it:
WvW only: revealed debuff is 10 seconds long and applies to all stealth abilities
Shadow’s Embrace: Remove 1 condition upon exiting stealth.
All healing is reduced 50% while in stealth.

JonPeters.5630:

As we played with the stealth changed mentioned in the SotG, we recognized that in conjunction with the change to culling this was an unpredictable change to make. We also felt that it was too big of a hit to these stealth professions, so we ended up pulling that change in favor of just increasing revealed duration by 1 second.

and that hurts insanely!

JonPeters.5630:

As we played with the stealth changed mentioned in the SotG, we recognized that in conjunction with the change to culling this was an unpredictable change to make. We also felt that it was too big of a hit to these stealth professions, so we ended up pulling that change in favor of just increasing revealed duration by 1 second.

never had much trouble killing thieves. nerf is useless. now its not even a challenge to kill a thief anymore.

Thieves, we’ve been nerfed, i think their intentions are to make us more of a “Duelist” class, relying on stealth for burst or escaping, however if they nerf our main mechanic “Stealth” expect them to buff other mechanics like “Evade”, by increasing the durations by a little, and they may even buff our “Out of Stealth” damage so we can compensate for this..

Oh wait its A.Net, they’ll probably just nerf scorpion wire and say “the noobs didnt like being pulled into zergs”

And just to be on Par with the OP(original poster), Thief in PvE was already bad to begin with, why take one over a warrior? In other words, i completely agree with you that the thief nerf is unjustifiable, give us the 3 second reveal if we leave stealth no matter what, dont make our class globally worse, especially when we dont excel at PvE to begin with, here i thought A.Net would be addressing PvE with minor buffs..

Mind=Blown.

Ok I’ve just completed Arah path 4 for the first time tonight with four guildies who had never been on the path before ever. The world has not caved in. Thieves can still work. My 30 points in shadow arts were not wasted. What I did notice was …

- I lost the timing on cloak and dagger a lot, just because it’s different and also because …
- it’s annoying that the 4 seconds is out of step with 3 hits in the auto-attack chain.
- Traited blinds from cloak and dagger were coming through a bit too slowly, so the offhand pistol might have to come out more often.
- The 4 seconds just seems to put some stop/start into the thief play that shouldn’t be there. You steal some feathers then wait then use them. You need to heal with hide in shadows so you wait then you heal with stealth. It’s only that half a second wait each time but it breaks up the dynamic and isn’t as much fun, imho, watching that revealed icon.
- I was presumably losing performance from less frequent might, regen, etc. delayed but those marginal losses are hard to spot. Delayed blind was more important.
- I think basilisk venom was working ok apart from on the priest of balthazar. I don’t know if that was my error or the boss breaking free with skills.

Caltrops now last 10 seconds instead of 15?

So what, I need to now respec to full glass cannon, remove condition damage completely? Good job, but as you’ve already broken this game and I am not playing it for like 2 weeks now, it’s just more reasons not to go back ever…

And, living story is a complete disaster – you can say to yourselves that it is something world has never seen before, but reality is that it is pointless, boring, most epic kitten you ever implemented in this game. Period.

I love having my kind of middling class nerfed again and again solely due to some pvp stuff that I and the majority of players do not participate in, especially when there are systems in place to separate pvp and pve skills but they go unused.

First I ran D/P. Then they nerfed that for pvp. Then I ran S/P. Then they nerfed that for pvp. Then I switched to D/D. Now they’ve nerfed that for pvp.

My banner warrior is stoked about this patch though. I already felt like the highest contributing member of whatever group I was in, but I guess I needed more? Okay.

JonPeters.5630:

As we played with the stealth changed mentioned in the SotG, we recognized that in conjunction with the change to culling this was an unpredictable change to make. We also felt that it was too big of a hit to these stealth professions, so we ended up pulling that change in favor of just increasing revealed duration by 1 second.

Jon, man, you got it wrong.

Just watch the SOTG video again and notice that Xeph is constantly on the verge of bursting out laughing in disbelief.

You guys are not doing things correctly.

Look I get why it was done but we need better.

Hope they will undo this nerf. simply cant play a thife right now. Not is s/d nor in dd condi build(

Quickness and stealth have been OP since launch. Its good both have been taken down. Cant believe it took this long even.

I still have yet to hear a reasonable reason why stealth is considered OP, its strength is situational at best :/

All I ever hear is that its makes thieves risk free and they can do mad damage with stealth and how it allows them to escaped undamaged and lots of things along those lines which makes me wonder if I haven’t installed the wrong game…

oh ok they nerfed pvp, got that wrong and now i cant play pve ? did i miss something on the way?

This is hardly a PvP nerf; C&D is a fairly niche skill in PvP simply because it is unreliable between the dodge, aegis, and invulnerability frames on so many skills. You were not using it on cooldown outside of some niche S/D high uptime daze builds. There’s a reason D/P keeps gaining popularity – you have easy access to a very reliable stealth skill and get a good gap closer, which a lot of your initiative goes into anyway.

This is a PvE nerf, where C&D is reliable and high volume.

I cannot help but marvel at a patch that nerfs thief in PvE and nerfs warrior in PvP. Do the developers even play this game? Do they even talk to anyone who plays this game?

Ensign.2189:

I cannot help but marvel at a patch that nerfs thief in PvE and nerfs warrior in PvP. Do the developers even play this game? Do they even talk to anyone who plays this game?

From what I understand they talk to some pvpers and we all know how rational and concerned about balance against them pvpers always are in games

JonPeters.5630:

As we played with the stealth changed mentioned in the SotG, we recognized that in conjunction with the change to culling this was an unpredictable change to make. We also felt that it was too big of a hit to these stealth professions, so we ended up pulling that change in favor of just increasing revealed duration by 1 second.

Thank you very much mister for this nice present you gave us with the “end” of culling. You have made the whole world see that you have no sense of balance and that your actions aren’t combined with rational thinking in any way.

PS: thank you for the hidden killer trait bug, it made my day.

JonPeters.5630:

As we played with the stealth changed mentioned in the SotG, we recognized that in conjunction with the change to culling this was an unpredictable change to make. We also felt that it was too big of a hit to these stealth professions, so we ended up pulling that change in favor of just increasing revealed duration by 1 second.

So, can we get another response? You’ve seen the threads. You’ve seen the INTENSE opposition, mostly backed up at that.

I’d also like some concrete explanation as to the logic of the 1 second increase (that post is NOT it), and I would also like to know what dev is responsible for Thief changes, or even plays a Thief at all.

I am 100% aware that I will not get an answer, but it’s worth a shot, right? It’s nice to know who you’re dealing with when a profession goes so disastrously wrong in an area of the game that is totally undeserving of it.

JonPeters.5630:

As we played with the stealth changed mentioned in the SotG, we recognized that in conjunction with the change to culling this was an unpredictable change to make. We also felt that it was too big of a hit to these stealth professions, so we ended up pulling that change in favor of just increasing revealed duration by 1 second.

You’re aware you just double-nerfed the already poor damage of P/D in PvE with the changes to caltrops and revealed right? Caltrops took a significant hit to duration, and the additional revealed means that the bread and butter attack sequence that P/D can use to kill things was just extended by one attack. This is something you messed with early on by accident (when sneak attack revealed on all five shots) and reverted back to the standard 2-shot rotation.

Was this simply not considered, or did you deliberately decide we had too many bleeds?

This doesn’t change the build much in PvP as you can seldom hit a perfect rotation against competent players anyway(2 autos between CnD) so it remains largely unchanged as you’re still taking at least three autos as before when facing down a live person. On top of that, Caltrops isn’t/wasn’t all that horribly useful in PvP to begin with.

Was P/D really that problematic in PvE when compared to what’s avaliable to mainline power/crit specs?

Can we expect some compensation in terms of durability or bleed duration in a future patch?

Don’t get me wrong, the little buff to uncatchable’s range is nice but it can’t begin to make up for the loss of already sub-par damage from bleeds.

LordSlack.4685:

I just rolled a thief and fight monsters with D/D and caltrops. What’s hilarious is that they are attempting to balance high level pvp and nerfed my little level 30 into the dirt.

I already thought low level thief was the hardest class to level.

It was, and now it’s even worse. Caltrops was one of the only reasons they are even playable while leveling through low/mid levels.

However, I’m okay with the Caltrops nerf, because it was nonsensically powerful. What I’m not okay with is how bad Stealth is in PvE, how gimpy Pistols are, and how wretched the Downed State is.

Please ditch this nerf and go with the supposedly more harsh one you had planned instead. The one that was actually much less harsh. Preferably without making us deal with this for another few months.

Vargs.6234:

Please ditch this nerf and go with the supposedly more harsh one you had planned instead.

noo don’t encourage them they should learn that if something needs fixing nerfing everything else isn’t the way to go about it.

“I’m telling you I just logged in a played my thief, nothing about stealth has changed. They may have extended the Revealed debuff but if you have Meld With Shadows your playstyle has been unaffected. There’s nothing different about stealth in this new patch.”(quote from a page ago)

^
Hold on a minute… did you think while you were writing that? Or even, did you even test d/d or s/d (cnd – backstab/tactical -3 hits – cnd…) rotations in pve? I am using a 10/30/30/0/0 s/d build. After the patch, I logged and got killed from a single veteran in a 1-15lvl area. I was like “wait, what?”. Everything seemed soo bad, so clunky, that… I am still baffled how this 1 additional second revealed pretty much royally kittened up Thief in pve. Great job, Arena Net, I am in awe of your wvw balancing skills. Too bad this doesn’t really change much for wvw.

JonPeters.5630:

As we played with the stealth changed mentioned in the SotG, we recognized that in conjunction with the change to culling this was an unpredictable change to make. We also felt that it was too big of a hit to these stealth professions, so we ended up pulling that change in favor of just increasing revealed duration by 1 second.

I’m a bit confused.

Problem: some thieves are abusing game mechanics by spamming CnD, remaining, for all intents and purposes, permastealthed.

Proposed Solution: apply reveal to ALL exits of stealth

canned in favor of

Chosen Solution: Make life more difficult for ALL thieves upon receiving Reveal, something that CnD chainers can avoid receiving.

Sorry, thieves with actual skill. You seem to have taken a bullet for the other thieves who need to learn how to properly play the game. This sucks for you, as well as all non-thieves who will now need to continue putting up with CnD spammers…

Longer revealed =’s less overall healing, less dps, less condition removal… Vs… if you leave stealth you get revealed…

I would have easily chosen the latter as it doesn’t kitten everything under the sun (which thieves were in no way compensated for).

If c&d spam was the issue they should have just tacked on causes revealed when leaving stealth for that skill in particular…

They should make the reveal debuff happen whether an attack happens or not as this prevents chain stealthing which effectively allows a thief to “reset” a fight when they feel they are losing. All other characters face risks when engaging in combat while the thief can effectively attack then stealth away. Combined with all the escape mechanisms a thief has ie. shadow returns, crippling traps, caltrops etc. it technically allows a thief to troll other players which i feel is detrimental to player enjoyment……

Really many other games had stealth as an ability but it always came with a penalty, ie slow move speed, high cooldowns, increased vulnerability etc never additional buffs like how GW2 makes it – exactly the opposite (higher speed, regeneration, condition removal, increased damage). IMHO too much benefit is stacked upon an already OP skill which make it impossible for opponents to effectively target you. Its like giving a warrior endure pain with a 10 sec CD. Really people need to think about the two sides of the coin……..

Jaytee.9513:

They should make the reveal debuff happen whether an attack happens or not as this prevents chain stealthing which effectively allows a thief to “reset” a fight when they feel they are losing. All other characters face risks when engaging in combat while the thief can effectively attack then stealth away. Combined with all the escape mechanisms a thief has ie. shadow returns, crippling traps, caltrops etc. it technically allows a thief to troll other players which i feel is detrimental to player enjoyment……

Really many other games had stealth as an ability but it always came with a penalty, ie slow move speed, high cooldowns, increased vulnerability etc never additional buffs like how GW2 makes it – exactly the opposite (higher speed, regeneration, condition removal, increased damage). IMHO too much benefit is stacked upon an already OP skill which make it impossible for opponents to effectively target you. Its like giving a warrior endure pain with a 10 sec CD. Really people need to think about the two sides of the coin……..

Elementalist can do the same, and get away a lot faster.

Why do people think thieves don’t face risks when engaging, just what do you think stealth does? give immunity to damage? prevent any sort of prevention of escape?

Everyone else face the same risk as a thief the difference is the skills and mechanics each get to try and mitigate, others get things that actively stop or reduce damage at the cost of cooldowns, thieves get a mechanic that prevents unobservent/unprepared retaliation at the cost of either cooldowns or pseudo-cooldowns.

And other games stealth lasts more than 3 seconds base.

Yes I get it, when your new and a thief disappears and you don’t know what the hecks happening it feels like their gods but you really can prevent such things in so many ways.

I honestly rather have the one they planned. This is in PvE is just …. I play my warrior and ele more In PvE as it is. Thief is getting the shelf because its a little much. Not quitting the game but kitten something about eating a PvE nerf on my weakest PvE toon has got me kitten off.

TheGuy.3568:

I honestly rather have the one they planned. This is in PvE is just …. I play my warrior and ele more In PvE as it is. Thief is getting the shelf because its a little much. Not quitting the game but kitten something about eating a PvE nerf on my weakest PvE toon has got me kitten off.

I don’t know.. i wouldnt call thief Weak in PvE.. personally..

Yep. Thief class is still as broken and cheap as ever. No significant change at all in this patch regarding thieves.

Daecollo.9578:

Jaytee.9513:

They should make the reveal debuff happen whether an attack happens or not as this prevents chain stealthing which effectively allows a thief to “reset” a fight when they feel they are losing. All other characters face risks when engaging in combat while the thief can effectively attack then stealth away. Combined with all the escape mechanisms a thief has ie. shadow returns, crippling traps, caltrops etc. it technically allows a thief to troll other players which i feel is detrimental to player enjoyment……

Really many other games had stealth as an ability but it always came with a penalty, ie slow move speed, high cooldowns, increased vulnerability etc never additional buffs like how GW2 makes it – exactly the opposite (higher speed, regeneration, condition removal, increased damage). IMHO too much benefit is stacked upon an already OP skill which make it impossible for opponents to effectively target you. Its like giving a warrior endure pain with a 10 sec CD. Really people need to think about the two sides of the coin……..

Elementalist can do the same, and get away a lot faster.

Untrue. I can plan my chain cc and burst dps because I actually SEE them when I want to attack.

Thieves: can’t hit what i can’t see 50% of the time. Single burst on them? Immediately use sword number 2. Instant stun breaker and get out of jail card. Zero cooldown. Zero cast time. If you are a thief and can’t get away easily..I dunno what to say.

JonPeters.5630:

As we played with the stealth changed mentioned in the SotG, we recognized that in conjunction with the change to culling this was an unpredictable change to make. We also felt that it was too big of a hit to these stealth professions, so we ended up pulling that change in favor of just increasing revealed duration by 1 second.

Hi Jon, i wanted to share my opinion with you, so here it is.

I think it’s time you devs start to split skills into PvE and PvP versions, like it was done in GW1.
I bet it will be a lot more work for you, but if you keep going in this direction, and keep skills unified, you will never ever achieve a good (or even decent) balance in both aspects of the game, and you will actually ruin one or the other aspect in the process too.

Take this fix for example: i have no idea why it was needed in PvP or WvW (i dont play those anymore), but it surely messed up the PvE rotation of thieves very badly, and its not like PvE thieves were the best DPS out there, or the best at anything actually, so there was no reason for this fix to be applied. (it also has consequences on survivability)

PvE is already messed up badly in regards to class balance, i’m sure you are aware of the CoF p1 mes+war spam, or the fractals guardian syndrome: i dont think these phenomena are a sign of classes being totally unbalanced, because it’s totally true that you can run any dungeon with any class combo, but they surely show that some imbalance exists!

There are classes who are given the top DPS/utility, at the cost of almost nothing: warriors have the best DPS out there, and they also have the highest base HP pool and the highest base armor; guardians have the best utility for fractals instead (no other class has that many projectile-reflecting walls); mesmers are wanted mostly for timewarp (and feedback).

I’ve never advocated for a warrior/guardian/whateverclass nerf, because nerfing classes makes them unfun usually: i’d prefer if you improved DPS/utility/whatever of the other classes instead, i’d like if you made PvE more interesting than just a DPS race where only 1 class can realistically compete and win.

As i said, i have no experience in sPvP, and my experience in WvW is totally outdated, but if there is no balance between classes there, then splitting skills will do good for those aspect of GW2 too.

tl, dr: split PvE and WvW/sPvP skills and try to achieve a separate balance in each aspect of the game, skill unification is doing no good at all if you end up nerfing the PvE side of a class to achieve a balance in PvP (or viceversa), especially when that class was not even remotely OP in PvE/PvP.

i hope i didn’t make too many errors, english is not my first language :P

Iam waiting for the day where thiefs become what the assasins in factions has become: tanks who rush inis.

Why are we getting nerfs all the time while eles and warrior are getting buffs for no reason?

Besides: is there any good build for a shortbow yet, or is it still a gapclosing gimmick with no use?

I completely agree with you Krumhur. But it’s too late. Don’t expect Anet to reverse these changes at this point. And heck; even if they decide to implement the previously suggested change, that you would always get revealed after a stealth (which id welcome however the situation looks like), I highly doubt they would reduce the revealed back to 3 seconds. So we better learn to play with it, however clunky and off-track it feels.

Einlanzer.1627:

LordSlack.4685:

I just rolled a thief and fight monsters with D/D and caltrops. What’s hilarious is that they are attempting to balance high level pvp and nerfed my little level 30 into the dirt.

I already thought low level thief was the hardest class to level.

It was, and now it’s even worse. Caltrops was one of the only reasons they are even playable while leveling through low/mid levels.

However, I’m okay with the Caltrops nerf, because it was nonsensically powerful. What I’m not okay with is how bad Stealth is in PvE, how gimpy Pistols are, and how wretched the Downed State is.

very true. Sure caltrops nerf sucks for condi thieves, but it was warranted. 1s nerf to steath debuff was NOT warranted. Something that would have made sense is revealed every time you exit stealth (you know, their original plan).

Why was it waranted?

Problem in thief leveling in PvE is that everyone focuses on the huge burst we can do. Burst that is possible because of our high level traits mostly. And so ANet nerfs our skills and so our skills are weak unless we are level 70+ …

And now they nerf the few skills we could use for leveling correctly.

I’d just like to add another post to this thread by saying that my D/D rotation is now botched and feels clunky compared to the way it previously was. The extra second of revealed pretty much just amounts to me attacking with weapon skill #1 and taking damage. This also decreases the dps output of my character. Where in every four backstab rotations i now miss one for a total of 3 to 6 k damage when compared to how thing previously were.

randomfightfan.4091:

Sure caltrops nerf sucks for condi thieves, but it was warranted.

I’m also confused at why you as a person feel that cutting 5 seconds off of the duration of caltrops was “warranted”

Enlighten me.

Caltrops is how Thief stack 25 Bleed in combination with DB or Sneak atk, you can also walk out of it (easier to now as well). Not sure why it needed nerfed. People don’t really use it in PvP anyways. Warrior can do 25 bleeds with 1 skill in a few short seconds tho and have huge burst DMG at the same time. (My warrior is 1h sword and the amount of power/crit dmg + cond is absolutely nuts and 10x easier to do.)

And the whole messy rotation and slower, less organized backstab DPS in both PvE and PvP is totally ruining this class for me now. Nerf needs reverted, shoulda stuck with the original nerf or not do anything at all since culling is fixed. I don’t see how this change was necessary as you can still chain stealth, which is what the crybabies complained about most.

PopeUrban.2578:

randomfightfan.4091:

Sure caltrops nerf sucks for condi thieves, but it was warranted.

I’m also confused at why you as a person feel that cutting 5 seconds off of the duration of caltrops was “warranted”

Enlighten me.

It’s quite simple really – it stacked 2 bleeds per tick, causing up to 15 bleeds for a large group of enemies that lasted up to 20 seconds while also crippling everything in the same radius. This is very powerful for a utility skill (and thematically inappropriate, frankly), and the result of that is that Thieves were overdependent on it while leveling (regardless of build). I went from having a very difficult time playing my Thief to suddenly destroying groups of mobs abruptly when I picked up the skill.

I believe the Caltrops nerf was needed; what will happen now is that some of the serious playability issues the class has in PvE that were previously partially masked by broken-ish skills like Caltrops will be revealed more overtly and they’ll be forced to address issues like terrible Downed skills, terrible Vital Shot, and weaksauce Stealth.

Now the extra second on the Reveal debuff – that’s a whole different ballgame. They clearly didn’t stop to think about the ripple effects. I have to be honest, I don’t have a whole lot of confidence in their competence at this point.

PopeUrban.2578:

randomfightfan.4091:

Sure caltrops nerf sucks for condi thieves, but it was warranted.

I’m also confused at why you as a person feel that cutting 5 seconds off of the duration of caltrops was “warranted”

Enlighten me.

Main reason why is because the duration is crazy long. Mostly in pvp is it stupid strong when caping and defending but even in wvw and pve it was a tad too strong. The reason being is that it was a 15s long duration on a 30s cd that can be cast while invis and not break the invis. Made it far too easy to wreck large groups. With 10s you still maintain the utility, just the dps is nerfed and with the buff to caltrops on dodge (previously only could get 1 stack of bleeds from this, I’ve seen 3 now), it seems to have evened out.