Guild Wars 2

So my wife and I just got the game a couple months ago and are finally getting to level 80 and would like some suggestions on build/gear. I would expect we will be duoing most of the time.

We have done a lot of S/P leveling with the BP auto attack sword combinations making most mobs die without hurting anyone. This is clearly a low damage build though but high survivability in PVE.

I have seen how PW combined with haste can be very effective especially against less experienced players but has mobility issues with players that can dodge or move out of the way.
I saw this build for s/p
http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fYAQNAsaVlUmCPHcS6E9JFx2jeqTeyLwnBZHrWBaC;TsAg0CnoixEjIGbMuYkxsKYMyECA
From this article:
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/45902-lowells-ultimate-spvp-thief-guide-wip/

I would welcome suggestions on a glass cannon or hybrid survivability ideas. Are 2 thieves going to be less productive than other combinations? We loved the BGs in DAOC and would love to find something like that here in GW2 so any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Mechant

So let if 2 people played thieves what spec combinations would work well? Or just made 2 thieves with the same spec would work as well?

0/30/30/10 will give you some survivability and keep your damage output. Something like this -
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsaVlUmCPHcS6E95Ey2jdqC5JuHOlR1UdFwKA-TsAg0CnIiRFjLGTMyYsxMGZVwECA

GCs don’t last long in Wv3 and having to run back to the fight sucks.

edit – I’d go S/D or D/P. You’ll want access to stealth.

Hi Merchant,

Firstly, here’s a link to my build: Linky

I use it in WvW and PvE. I have not run with another thief, so am not too experienced in this regard, but it is something I am keen to try and is something I have pondered on. So here are my thoughts:

The build I linked is not as hard hitting as a full on glass cannon build, but it still hits hard enough to defeat players quickly and has a lot more survivability included. This allows me to roam with relative ease and confidence. It also allows for permanent stealth so as to scout and escape. It is a stealth heavy build and with this in mind I feel 2 similarly specced thieves could cause mayhem to small groups if played right. It would be very easy for 2 thiefs to keep themselves hidden until they chose to engage.

In a PvE sense, you still have Black Powder for defense and quick access to stealth for when things go bad. With two thieves running Black Powder most PvE content becomes trivial and when fighting champions it is easy to swap agro at your choosing rather than relying on the champs agro mechanics. Though dagger lacks the AoE benefit of sword, the shortbow more than makes up for that. That said though, I have equipped Superior Sigil of Flame on my dagger to periodically blast all foes surrounding my target, so it is not completely without AoE, and with careful positioning and target swapping you can whittle down groups quite quickly.

Now for support. Stealth is not only your friend, but it is also your ally’s. With the Shadow Protector trait selected Shadow Refuge becomes a true safe haven in PvE and can push out some nice healing to boot. Not only that but ranged allies get to life steal with their attacks when firing through it. You can also run to troubled allies and hit Blinding Powder to help them lose agro and grant regen. And of course their is the support potential of all those blinds.

Though there are some good thieves out there that can run full glass cannon builds, the biggest issue is when they get CC’d. When a glass cannon thief gets CC’d, it is very likely game over for them. But this build I run, so far, has given me enough defense to survive many surprise attacks and sometimes turn the fight around. As an added measure of defense, when running solo I will often swap the Shadow Protector trait for the Shadow’s Embrace trait, to provide some much needed condition removal when things go pear shaped. And if both thiefs have the same build, there would not be too much need for Shadow Protector unless you are running with other allies.

Anyway, I hope that helps. In case you want to go full GC, here is a link to the GC build I used to use in WvW. The utility skills are open to change though. It is a fun build to run, but you really need your wits about you or you won’t last long.

Rin,

Thanks for the build suggestions! I will give them a try this week and see what I can learn.

Looking for suggestions on gear to compliment the first build. I will try the sigil of fire on the dagger.

I have considered either Wurm or Warrior for the runes. I like the increased vitality and damage. I would think the 6% crit and 3% damage would be better then the 50 power and 1 second weapon swap reduction, but can someone confirm their thoughts? Would there be a better rune set to try?

Suggestions for the other sigil and/or accessories to go with the build? I have around 100 laurels right now and was trying to decide what to buy.

Thanks again,

Mechant

Hi,

For WvW, I would forget S/P…it got over nerfed and it is sub par compared to what you can get out of S/D and D/D…

I agree with stinky…0/30/30/10/0 is probably the best in terms of survivability and damage…sigils of fire, accuracy, battle…anything that boosts your DPS…Full set of P/V/T armor (orr karma vendors ans one invader piece) with Ruby orbs…accessories are berserker everything (Ascended offensive and if defensive get some vitality). Ruby orbs are cheap and you can’t get much better in terms of DPS for a thief.

That should bring you without food buffs close to 50% crit chance, over 90% crit damage (over 3100 attk ans over 16k HP) and plenty of survivability to handle most outnumbered fights.

Have fun :-)

@ Rin

I’ve started a thief as my 4th alt (currently lv36, but planning ahead) and as a W3 player mostly, and just because I find it fun, I’d like to make a build that maximize Stealth.

I’ve looked at your build, but could you explain to me what process should I use to get as close as possible to “perma-stealth” (if that’s even possible?) weapons, traits, utilities?

I use a SB as I find that no matter the class, I always play ranged weapon, and getting too close to a zerg usually gets me killed in a few seconds, plus I just like it. However I almost never use my second set as I find all those D/P/S pretty useless (they’re not, but that’s how I feel when I use them, if you see what i mean)

I’d also like to know how one would go about soloing camps, as I’ve heard a thief can do it easy, yet none of my other chars. can do it, not even my main ranger.

But then again, I’ve never really bothered too much with builds as I just play to have fun

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you!

Thanks Jakkson for the feedback.

Do you think 0-30-30-10-0 is better than the 10-30-30-0-0?
So losing 100 power, mug and posion on steal and gaining 100 vitality 2 sec swift on evade and ? Which one would you pick?

hi mechant, welcome! wish I could get my wife into the game..
I think it may be fun in a duo thief team to go either d/p and s/d or two d/p.

d/p gives you a great toolkit – gap-closers, interrupt, blinds, burst, perma-stealth (dark field + 3 heartseekers = lots of stealth).

s/d gives a “tanky” style of play that is very different and tough to play well.

the two together lets you do hammer/anvil tactics, where the s/d keeps the opponent busy, while the d/p whittles them down with the shortbow, before surprising them with a burst. s/d also gives boon stripping, allowing you to take on bunkers.

dual d/p means even easier access to perma-stealth, as you can share dark fields and shadow-refuges. if you coordinate, you can both burst someone at once, which can be very powerful.

either way, I’d recommend shortbow as the alternate for both as it gives lots of mobility on map…you can have races. you should be able to take camps together, kill dolyaks and take on the occasional stragglers in a zerg, etc.

bobross, I know I am lucky WHEN my wife plays. But she only enjoys playing when we can find some good pvp without zergs.

I tried the S/D combo in pve and had trouble with timing but I will pratice some more to get better before I dare try it in PVP. The FS/LS combo does look nasty for boom designs. I already do the sb for IA to get to or away from things.

How does the perma stealth work? I have seen people talking about it but I dont get it.

I know shadow refuge is 15 seconds on a 60 second CD. So I can see how we have 29-30 seconds stacking 2 back to back. Isnt dark field just an after effect of this ability?

Blinding Powder gives 3 seconds on a 40 CD. So that in theory could get us to 36 seconds stealthed every minute.

I do see Cloak and Dagger once we are in a fight gives an additional 3 seconds on X/D set up.

Is there a combo finisher with the shadow refuge or what else am I missing? I understand culling can impact that, but was there something else to give longer stealth?

mug isn’t really as good anymore without the crits. and the heal is kinda weak. also swifness on evade is awesome. and yeah PVT armor. zerker weapons. i have ruby orbs on all the things.

Isn’t permapoof using Heartseeker as many times as you can with the field from Smokescreen with the traits for +2 init on stealth, +init regen in stealth, and the +2 init/10 seconds on top of everything else?

That makes sense stinkypants. I appreciate all the help and advice!

one general recommendation for a thief switching from pve to wvw is to pplay a few games of hotjoin pvp first…

my reason for this is that there is a weird nervous rush that happens (at least for me) the first few times I play pvp in any game. it is hard to see past the nerves and stay calm, and therefore harder to stay in control of the fight. Pvp throws you right into a fight, so you can get this out of your system in an hour or two.

in wvw, there’s lots of time without seeing other players, or running to an ovjective…and basically that momentary panic will get you killed, then you still have to walk back to a good spot, and you’re still going to panic again…the nerves will still go away over time, it just takes longer, due to the down-time.

@Merchant,

Sorry for not replying for a while, for some strange reason Anet has seen fit to terminate my main account, when I have not done anything wrong!

Anyway, with regards to your question. For me I like to output as much damage as possible, so I tend to balance my gear more towards that than defense. Stealth and the regen gained from traits is my survival, plus all the blinds, so I don’t feel the need to have a lot of points in vitality and would rather have them in power.

For my gear I have gone for mostly berserker gear and half berserker and half valkerie trinkets (though in the build editor I chose full berserker). On my armour I chose beryl orbs for extra power, crit damage and a little extra vitality, but recently I have been thinking of changing these to runes. I have been toying with the idea of taking Runes of the Pack, as it gives better power and a nice amount of precision as well.

For sigils, along with the fire sigil, I decided to take bloodlust for a nice chunk of extra power, though there are plenty of other sigils that can be useful if you feel your survivability needs a boost, such as sigil of energy for extra endurance to dodge with.

With regards to Mug and putting points in Deadly Arts or Acrobatics, it’s really down to what suits you best. If you can survive well without the extra vitality and swiftness then I would put more points in power to maximize your damage, plus the added bonus of stealth giving a little heal and still doing some damage (even if it is not as strong as it was, it is still useful I find). But if you find you need more survivablility then Acrobatics is a good choice and loosing 100 power will not drop your damage too much, you should still be able to hit relatively hard. Also, you may find the swifness on dodge helps you to get into position faster or catch up with fleeing foes better. Me personally I find Signet of Shadows gives me enough speed + the occasional Heartseeker, and the extra blind is often useful. Also, with Dagger Pistol it is very easy to keep up with your target using Shadow Shot.

@Engel Angel and Merchant – Regarding perma stealth. To remain stealthed permanently takes practice, but essentially boils down to using the smoke field and leap or blast finisher.

So to start with you place Black Powder down, then use Heartseeker to leap out of it (granting 3 seconds of stealth). You then need to make an about turn and leap back into the same smoke field and then leap back out again to gain another 6 seconds. With the 2 ini return from the trait you only need 8-9 ini to perform this, so I tend to wait until I have 9 ini (3 ini not recharged) then perform the combo routine again.

If you find you do not have enough ini for the next combo you can suppliment the routine with Blinding Powder and Shadow Refuge if needed, but bear in mind that these have a long cooldown so I’d advise only doing this if you have to.

Be warned though, when using this method to stay perma stealthed your initiative will not be full when you engage an enemy, unless you pop one of your utility skills or share the ini cost with another thief.

Another couple of things to be aware of: A smart enemy will see the smoke appear out of nowhere and know a thief is about. You may be invisible but your smoke is not. You can also use Black Powder and then swap to the Shortbow to use an undetonated Clusterbomb on the smoke to cause AoE stealth for you and other nearby allies. However, the stealth I believe only lasts 2 seconds, but you can usually get 3 blasts off before the smoke ends, if you’re quick enough.

A quick note about Shadow Refuge. Be very aware that smart players will see the Shadow Refuge effect go up and promptly use fear/AoE knockback to push you out of it (prematurely ending stealth). It is a very useful skill, but be prepared to dodge while inside the circle to prevent enemies foiling your plans.

I hope that helps, and as others have said, practice in the mists and sPvP matches to hone your build. Try different set ups and even practice with both of you stealthing each other. Alternating who drops Black Powder to conserve initiative even more. Two thiefs running side by side should be able to easily stay stealthed without needing to use their utility skills.

Thanks Rin! That makes a lot more sense. Coming from DAOC and WOW I was very used to perma stealth.

Sounds like this is a little bit of a PITA but having 2 thieves could make this a lot easier. almost sounds like hidding behind a tree until close than stealthing will work a lot easier hehe

Hello Mechant! First off congrats on finding a significant other that plays games that’s just epic. Further more for validation of my opinions I have 1.5k hours on my thief, 600 games in sPvP on my thief and I run a thief party in wvw every night with the guild mates.

With that out of the way I will start off by showing you my build and then I will explain why I picked each one.
Build

Weapons: (Dagger/Dagger and Short-bow)
The reason I choose dagger/dagger is because of the fast damage it caries and the burst it upholds. Also with Cloak and Dagger it has an “on demand” stealth for quick stealthing. Although dagger/dagger’s rival, the dagger/pistol has more utility I find that it costs too much initiative to Black Powerder + Heart Seeker for my own tastes. Also with the BP+HS combo, HSing multiple times to stack stealth is dangerous in a fight because after the first HS if you hit anything you are revealed. so you have to make sure you in the clear which can be difficult at times. (Props to D/P zerg fighters).

As for the short-bow, it adds an exceptional amount of mobility as well as a ranged alternative if needed. As well as its good damage on auto-attack, it also has aoe attacks that can serve handy in special situations.

Traits
-Critical Strikes: This is where your damage comes from, maxamizing the backstab and over all critical damage.
MINOR TRAITS
—Keen Observer: Critical-hit chance is increased by 5% while health is over 90%.
((This trait is most useful with the short bow. When you start a fight you may want to get him to about 50-60% health then go in for the real damage.))
—Opportunist: Critical hits have a 20% chance to restore one initiative (1-second cooldown.)
((This trait isn’t too reliable but can really help when it procs. More initiative more fun..for you that is. ALSO a thief has 12 initiative naturally.))
—First Strikes: 10% increased damage when initiative is over 6.
((This is a great tool on the first backstab assuming the fight just started.))

MAJOR TRAITS
—Practiced Tolerance: 5% of precision is converted into vitality.
((The Hiddden Killer trait below makes precision aka crit chance useless. Cirticals are nice but you mainly want to crit on your big attacks aka backstab. So we trade some in for more survive ability.))
—Critical Haste: 10% chance to get quickness (2s) on a critical hit (30-second cooldown.)
((This trait isn’t too reliable but can really help when it procs. If the victims health is high continue to auto attack and backstab when possible. If the victims health is fairly low AND it is safe to do so, go ahead and HS spam to secure the kill. The HS spam shouldn’t take more than 2-3 HSers.))
—Hidden Killer: 100% critical hit chance while in stealth.
((This trait is VERY important. To ensure that every backstab does the damage you want it to, Hidden Killer is the man for the job.))

Shadow Arts: This is where your survive ability comes in hand. Maximizing in your stealth since you will be using it a lot.

MINOR TRAITS
—Last Refuge: Use Blinding Powder when your health reaches 25% (90-second cooldown).
(( This will save your behind for those situation where you have no way out. If this procs LEAVE and imagine the cooldown for it so it can proc again just in case.))
—Meld with Shadows: Stealth skills last 1 second longer
((This is great for when you want to excape a death sentence. Also Stealth duration is capped at 13-14 seconds.))
—Hidden Assassin: Gain might for 15 seconds when you go into stealth.
((This trait is just an add on to your already oh so high damage out put. It stacks while you are in stealth by the way. Might stacks this way is capped at 10 stacks.))

MAJOR TRAITS
—Infusion of Shadow: Gain 2 initiative when using a skill that stealths you.
((This trait reduces the amount of initiative it takes to Cloak and Dagger to four alowing some space for other skills to be performed.))
—Cloaked in Shadow: Going stealth blinds nearby foes.
(This trait is mainly for stomping people without getting inturrupted. Quick tip, you have to be touching the person while in stealth to blind him/her.))
—Shadow’s Rejuvenation: Regenerate health while in stealth.
((This also is a life saver, pretty self explanatory. More health..why not!))

Acrobatics: This is where your mobility comes in and saves the day!

MINOR TRAIT
—Expeditious Dodger: Gain 2 seconds of swiftness on evade.
(( This trait helps you run to or from enemies, or just anywhere you want to go. It does not last too long but its there…use it.))

MAJOR TRAIT
—Fleet Shadow: Move 50% faster while in stealth.
((This trait helps you get behind the victim faster assuming they will be running from your expected backstab. ALSO it helps you run from a near death experience while in stealth.))
EDIT: This trait can also be swtiched out for
—Descent of Shadows: Release blinding powder when you take falling damage. Take 50% less damage from falling.
((An extra stealth just in case.))

Armour & Trinkets
For your armor you want to go valkyrie instead of berserker. This is trading the Berserker’s precision for the Valkyrie’s vitality, and all other stats are the same. Doing so will increase your survive ability on a bigger range than the trinkets. As for upgrades go for divinity runes. As well as the Critical damage it provides, you also get an all around stat boost for the best survive ability.(These runes are expensive so an alternative until you get the are the Beryl orbs.)

For your trinkets go berserker since the vitality buff isn’t so macho with trinkets. This will boost your precision and since you have the Practiced Tolerance trait, it will further boost your vitality. As for the upgrades go with the ruby orbs.

WEAPON TYPE & UPGRADES:
For your weapons go Berserker for each one.(Practiced Tolerance) On the main hand dagger, upgrade it with the sigil of AIR, this will boost your backstabs to an insane amount of damage when it procs. Some use fire but Air does a little more damage, and it is a single target attack.(Thief attacks are mainly single target anyway)
For your off hand dagger, go sigil of force for even more damage.
And for your short-bow, go with blood lust. Me and the crew attack a mob of wolves and skelk in wvw with cluster bombs to stack the bloodlusts and then we move out.

SKILLS
For your heal go with Hide in Shadows. This provides and extra stealth just in case. It also works well with your Shadow Arts tree.
For the utilities go with Shadow Step, Shadow Refuge, and Signet of Shadows.

Shadow Step:A thiefs worst enemy is crowd control(CC). Shadow Step is a CC’s worst enemy. Use wiseley, only if you are taking big damage.

Shadow Refuge: This skill is mandatory for thief survival. it heals and stealths you and your stealth heals you as well. One thing though if you manage to come out of it before it vanishes you will be revealed. Players know this and will try to pull, knockback, or fear you out of it. Keep that in mind.

Signet of shadows: This skill shines at best with it’s passive effect 25% movement speed. great for wvw coverage and over all movement. Before the fight switch it out for Blinding powder if you are greatly out-maned.

Basilisk Venom: This elite grants you a free backstab, and in most fights that last about a minute you will get to use it twice. Switch this out to dagger storm for zerg fights and when you are out-maned.( Baslisk venom can be wasted if you hit an aegis, blocked by some other means, or try to hit while blinded so watch out for these).

BUFFS!!
The buffs should increase your survive ability.
Bowl of Truffle Ravioli: +100 toughness, +70 precision, +10% bonus experience
Hardened Sharpening Stone: Gain power equal to 5% of your toughness, Gain power equal to 3% of your vitality, +10% bonus experience.

I hope this was easy to read. I will start writing on tactics when grouping with another thief.

The most important tactic when wvw with a thief is to gank. Not many can live through 2 backstabs at once. So set your target and blast them!! If your victim seems to be tanky (like a guardian or warrior), stealth up one person use basilisk venom and you both backstab him then right after the other person use basilisk venom and get another 2 backstabs on him and heartseeker him down (assuming he is very low on hp). Also when fighting a guardian especially steal to him and get the daze. And soon as the basilisk wears off use one and 1 second later use the other from your partner. If he is not dead he is a kitten good guardian.
When in trouble!
Just Shadow refuge and get out till your utilities start coming back. If one of you manages to get downed Shadow refuge fairly close to your partner about 50-100 units away and have him/her teleport (down ability number 2) into the refuge. This maneuver is very effective because at most times the enemy thinks he/she stealthed in the same spot not realizing he/she is now in the refuge. Also the enemy will more than likely spam aoe’s on the downed person so you guys need to be clear of that. Hopefully they have little to no more aoe’s to spam on your refuge. This maneuver was invented by yours truly Invis Dreamz. Practice may be needed but its not hard. Also learn the maximum amount of distance the downed teleport can get you. The farther away from aoe the better.
Quick Tips
You can dodge out of Dagger Storm and keep the stability.
Go around the wvw maps and learn what you can and can’t teleport on to using infiltrators arrow.
You can cloak and dagger off of anything living in wvw…use it!
Turn auto-targeting off.
Turn auto-cast on for aoe attacks.
Re-map your skills for better accessibility if possible.
Turn all character tags on for everything.
If all else fails and you have no refuge to save your partner. Save yourself. Good luck.