Guild Wars 2

Hi,

I think we really need a rework for the venoms. In the current state, they are way to weak.

My main idea would be to add a debuff to them that works like the warrior’s sword skill “impale” that is not sharable.

So the debuff would reapply conditions for a short duration.

Maybe make the debuff stronger then the part of the venom that you can share, so they become way more viable when not using venom share.

So i’d suggest the debuff to trigger every 3 seconds with a duration calculated by the number of attacks * 3. (example: spider venom can hit 5 times. so the duration would be 5*3 = 15 seconds while basilisk venom would be at 1*3 = 3 seconds).
The first tick from a debuff does not start at 0 s but at 3 s.

To balance it the base condition duration of the venoms should be reduced by 50% and the debuff should get about 75% of the previous duration.

Further the debuffs wont stack.

So it would look somewhat like that:

Skale Venom
Vulnerability: 10 s 5 s
Torment: 5 s 2 s
Number of attacks: 3
Duration: 30 s

Skale Venom Debuff
Duration: 9 s
Applies every 3 seconds:
Vulnerability: 7 s
Torment: 3 s

Devourer Venom:
Immobilized: 2 s 1 s
Duration: 30 s
Number of attacks: 2

Devourer Venom Debuff:
Duration: 6 s
Applies every 3 seconds:
Immobilized: 1 s

Ice Drake Venom:
Chilled: 1 s
Number of attacks: 3
Duration: 30 s

Ice Drake Venom Debuff:
Duration: 9 s
Applies every 3 seconds:
Chilled: 1 s

Spider Venom:
Poison: 6 s 3 s
Number of attacks: 5
Duration: 30 s

Spider Venom Debuff:
Duration: 15 s
Applies every 3 seconds:
Poison: 4 s

Basilisk Venom:
Stone duration: 1.5 s 0.75 s
Number of attacks: 1
Duration: 30 s

Basilisk Venom Debuff:
Duration: 3 s
Applies every 3 seconds:
Stone duration: 1.5 s

Venomous aura is a given but with a smaller radius and give half charges to allies (5 charge = 2 charges for allies, 1 charge = 1 charge).

Venomous aura give full charges and a larger radius.

I dunno really, as long as they stop being terrible without having to invest 30 points in a traitline i’m fine.

Some ideas,

Just make all venoms apply an effect at each hit within a duration in stead of giving it x stacks. Apply venom for lets say 20 sec (half the cd, looks reasonable), every hit when you have the venom applied you cause e.g. 5 sec of the effect (poison, weakness, vulnerability). This way you can stack longer poison, stack up vulnerability, etc. This will give venoms a lot more power, the power they deserve for the long cooldowns. It will also promote landing as many hits as possible within the venom duration, and thus promote the thiefs to “stick around” as this was the direction the devs wanted to go.

Another possibility is removing venoms from the utility bar and just putting them under f2-f4 as a class specific mechanic. I have the feeling thief should have acces to venoms this way.

And one last thing. I don’t want to speculate on unreleased content, but the idea that our new heal skill will be a venom with the current venom mechanic, will disappoint all remaining thiefs. The proposed dec 10 changes will hurt enough without our only hope for a cool change being shattered. Please save thief class!

Kind Regards,
Prince

Remove sharing of venoms altogether. It’s forcing venoms to be mediocre without investing 50/60 trait points to share them to allies.

Instead, buff the venoms HEAVILY, and allow the benefits like Might or Leech to be AoE without the need for sharing. The venoms themselves would not be shared in this instance.

I think Venoms for solo should be hype up a lot!
Something like provide 5 stacks of torment and invulnerability for 4 attacks, Chill [and 3 stacks of bleeding] for 4 attacks, [Stun converts to make a target attack 50 percent slower for next 9 attacks, doesn’t not stack duration and each attack slow 1 second to make it more tactical gameplay] and etc. to make SOLO venom useful. (Also reduce cooldown rate to 25 or maybe 30 seconds)
I also think that the developers should add skills like …
-Renew venom : Draw all venoms back to a thief. Reduce cooldown by 25 percents (does stack with Venom reduce cooldown trait)

As i the one that use venom share a lot, enchant its range to 1200 and reduce overall cooldown but all venom effects should be like now.

That’s what i though.

To sum it up : Venom base power (condition stacks) for SOLO should be UPGRADE! While for venom share should have better range,reduce all VENOM’s base cooldown and not much additional upgrade but still require.

(I wish i can USE VENOM MORE FREQUENTLY. But Venom’s base cooldown is too high)

My suggestion:

[General]

• Reduce CD’s of Venoms to 35 Secs, except BV.

Traits:

[Improved Venoms]

• Venom skills recharge 20% faster and [poisons] have a higher duration of 30%.
  (Potent Poison and Quick Venoms are combinate into one T2-Trait.)

[Venomous Aura]
When you use a venom skill, you apply the effects to all nearby allies as well.

• Number of Targets: 5
• Max venom stacks: 2
• Radius: 360

Venoms:

[Spider Venom]
Poison foes with your next five attacks.

• Applied poison for 5 secs per hit.
• Number of attacks: 5 Attacks.
• Duration: 30 Sec.

[Ice Drake Venom]
Chill foes with the next three attacks.

• Chill: 2 Secs
• Number of attacks: 3 Attacks.
• Duration: 20 Sec.

[Devourer Venom]
Your next attacks Immobilize.

• Immobilized: 2 s
• Number of attacks: 2
• Duration: 20 s

[Skale Venom]
Apply Skale Venom to your attacks.

• Weakness: 2 s
• Torment: 5 s (160 damage)
• Number of attacks: 5
• Duration: 20 s

[Basilisk Venom] CD 60 Sec; Effect can’t stack
Turn your foe to stone and remove all boons.

• New boons are prevented for 1,5 secs.
• Number of attacks: 1
• Duration: 20 s

These are guide values

I would like the venoms to remove conditions from you, done either by traited 10/20 points in or by using it removes from you and places it on the opponent/s i.e poison one removes from you and places on target, Cooldowns should be at 25/30 secs with being traited that would be 20/24 which with venom share would give a thief a better place in wvw using sb/pp maybe with richocet and being behind the warriors/guards but in front of the ranged etc.

Alternativly change them to work with a passive and a offensive buff, in that it keeps the passive ability if not used could either remove the condition type of each venom from you or do some sort of other effect transfer said condition back to target

Turn Venoms into Contacts that summon other thieves that do kitten for you. Then make Contactshare. :3

The main issues I see with venoms are :
- lackluster effect when not shared with your party
- equipping venoms prevent you from taking needed condition removal and stun breaks

There multiple ways one can improve venoms then. Most revolve around the idea of buffing them without buffing venom sharing at all. Here’s a couple examples :
- Add a second effect on venom that activates on cast. For example, one venom could remove stuns, another cures 3 conditions etc…
- Applying a venom cures the corresponding conditions
- Make all venoms apply two conditions and only share the second one with venomous aura

Also, I’d change the Residual Venom trait because in my opinion, it’s not worth a grandmaster trait at all. The only reason we take it is because if we go full venom, there’s little else we can take that is effective. Proposals :
- merge it’s effect into quick venoms and create a new trait in it’s place. Doesn’t matter if it’s a venom based trait or not but probably should
- make it say “Venom charges aren’t lost when you miss an attack” and by miss I mean the full combo. Miss, block, evade, invulnerable and the like
- replace the trait with “Immunity training”. Applying a venom makes you immune to the corresponding conditions for a short duration (say, 10s for normal skills, 5s for the elite). Yes the elite becomes equivalent to 5s of stability.

VenomAura needs to be scrapped. This is the single reason why Venoms has such a long cooldown.

Only then we can have a meaningful discussion on how venom suppose to work.

Venoms are viable when used in tpvp the RIGHT way. Just share them with your teammates. With the way immob stacking works, i dont see how venoms are in need of a buff at all. I used to use venoms in solo q when they were first buffed and it was tons of fun giving people 15s of immobilization or 15 stacks of torment because i shared them with my team at the start of the match.

honovi.7893:

Venoms are viable when used in tpvp the RIGHT way. Just share them with your teammates. With the way immob stacking works, i dont see how venoms are in need of a buff at all. I used to use venoms in solo q when they were first buffed and it was tons of fun giving people 15s of immobilization or 15 stacks of torment because i shared them with my team at the start of the match.

How is that “fun” if you’re on the receiving end?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

honovi.7893:

Venoms are viable when used in tpvp the RIGHT way. Just share them with your teammates. With the way immob stacking works, i dont see how venoms are in need of a buff at all. I used to use venoms in solo q when they were first buffed and it was tons of fun giving people 15s of immobilization or 15 stacks of torment because i shared them with my team at the start of the match.

How is that “fun” if you’re on the receiving end?

I never said it wasn’t fun. I completely agree that immob stacking is a bad mechanic because classes without “cleanse all condition” skills or a lot of condi cleanse get screwed, but reworking venoms because they are not viable is wrong.

Venoms 30s Cool down base (But basilisk 45sec), Give 1 Passive ability and 1 used ability to them, Missing due to Blinding doesnt proc the venom. Make Zerk venoms and condition venoms separate!
Example 1) Skale Venom: Passive, 10% chance on crit to cause vulnerability for 10sec, When used, next 2 attacks apply Immobilized for 2sec.
This would give you a good dps alt to signets, able to stack a few Vul, pop to immob and dps your target, not to strong, but more useful at the same time.
Example 2: Spider Venom: Passive, every 6th attack applies Poison for 5sec. When used, next 3 attacks apply Torment for 35sec.
This would be good for a condtion build, ably to add poison and then torment at the right times for some burst condition dps.