Just wanted to get some other opinions on this and see if it
corresponds with my experiences so far.
I find myself heavily pressured by necros if they have a lot of life force left over
and MM. I’m at the point where I can easily read their animations for marks
and the golem dash and dodge accordingly but there’s just so much crap
flying around that the random damage from minions can be overwhelming.
Hambow is also a real pooper since the burning screws me over completely.
It’s not even the disables even though one hit feels like insta -25% hp.
Also for some weird reason I find medi guard to be quite hard.
Blind screws me, as does burning and if the GS chains connect it’s ‘lights out’
since the chaining into whirling wrath can only be avoided by signet wich ports me even closer (-> should I save steal for this scenario or use it for boonrip?) Uninterruptable heal is also not helpful :/
Any tips? Any other classes you find to be comperatively hard?
edit: this is for spvp. I’d also like to mention that I can disengage just fine but if I try to harass far, resetting the fight is just as bad a loss.
condi engis, properly played warriors, s/d eles, s/p thieves.
A lot of things CAN beat s/d thieves if played properly…fighting s/d is much more about timing / anticipation than anything. If you can play a good s/d, you can probably know how to counter one.
condi engis, properly played warriors, s/d eles, s/p thieves.
A lot of things CAN beat s/d thieves if played properly…fighting s/d is much more about timing / anticipation than anything. If you can play a good s/d, you can probably know how to counter one.
I’d say those are 5-5 matchups at best/worst.
Nothing really hardcounters (2-8 or 1-9 matchups) the AcroTrick S/D thief atm.
condi engis, properly played warriors, s/d eles, s/p thieves.
A lot of things CAN beat s/d thieves if played properly…fighting s/d is much more about timing / anticipation than anything. If you can play a good s/d, you can probably know how to counter one.
I’d say those are 5-5 matchups at best/worst.
Nothing really hardcounters (2-8 or 1-9 matchups) the AcroTrick S/D thief.
On that note though, it is always dependent on player caliber first. A good player will always beat a bad s/d thief and vice versa.
Thank god for no hard counters, because it is lame.
Seeing as you don’t seem to have problems against it, I’d like to ask how to deal with any x/p thief.
The blind is pretty bad for the mainset but if i try to go ranged I’m stuck with 10sec swap cd and the other thief just goes in for the kill :/
I’ve lost some 1v1 to x/p which i though i’d win for sure
but my opponent was able to turn the tides with <10% since i just could not hit.
d/p is especially bad with shadowshot.
condi engis, properly played warriors, s/d eles, s/p thieves.
A lot of things CAN beat s/d thieves if played properly…fighting s/d is much more about timing / anticipation than anything. If you can play a good s/d, you can probably know how to counter one.
I’d say those are 5-5 matchups at best/worst.
Nothing really hardcounters (2-8 or 1-9 matchups) the AcroTrick S/D thief atm.
This. I think old Dhuumfire necro would get a 7-3 though, as one burn proc would pressure the thief long enough to Condi spike him while he uses Shadow Return to cleanse.
But with the current meta, no builds can secure a kill on a SD thief. Even other thief builds (DP) get countered slightly by SD, as they don’t have any way to cleanse the poison
On that note though, it is always dependent on player caliber first. A good player will always beat a bad s/d thief and vice versa.
Thank god for no hard counters, because it is lame.
I guess. But if we’re talking about builds and build counters, it cannot be about player caliber. It just has to be about the theoretical matchup advantage/disadvantage each build has against each other regardless of the player.
And yes, ideally there aren’t any hardcounters in this game, but the reality of the matter is that hardcounters exist. D/D Ele or Celestial Rifle Engineer for 26006 D/P thief for example.
condi engis, properly played warriors, s/d eles, s/p thieves.
A lot of things CAN beat s/d thieves if played properly…fighting s/d is much more about timing / anticipation than anything. If you can play a good s/d, you can probably know how to counter one.
I’d say those are 5-5 matchups at best/worst.
Nothing really hardcounters (2-8 or 1-9 matchups) the AcroTrick S/D thief atm.
This. I think old Dhuumfire necro would get a 7-3 though, as one burn proc would pressure the thief long enough to Condi spike him while he uses Shadow Return to cleanse.
But with the current meta, no builds can secure a kill on a SD thief. Even other thief builds (DP) get countered slightly by SD, as they don’t have any way to cleanse the poison
What poison? Sword doesn’t have poison by itself, main-hand Dagger has.
Edit: Added quote from the post intended my question for
As a roamer and burster, you really shouldn’t be too concerned about 1v1.
If you’re fighting a fair fight, you’re doing it wrong.
As a roamer i tend to inavde far or burst strugglers in midfights.
Now far has either nobody → cap
1 person → win 1v1 + cap
more than 1 person → disengage and help end outnumbered midfight quickly
1. Now far has either nobody -> cap
2. 1 person -> win 1v1 + cap
3. more than 1 person -> disengage and help end outnumbered midfight quickly
how is that wrong?
1. Proper, cap or decap, unless your team really needs you at mid to spike some glassy opponents down.
2. If the opponent is really glassy and you’re sure you can kill him quickly, home bunkers usually aren’t and it leads to outdrawn fights and then you’re there wasting your time while your teammates fight outnumbered at mid. If you however have capped the point when he arrives you may try to hold it to buy time and points depending on how your team fairs at mid, usually fights as a thief involve going off point or stealthing which leads to a decap and therefor all is vain.
3. If there’s more than 1 person at far, mid usually isn’t outnumbered.
Thief is a roamer, not a far-point assaulter, they both have different tasks.
condi engis, properly played warriors, s/d eles, s/p thieves.
A lot of things CAN beat s/d thieves if played properly…fighting s/d is much more about timing / anticipation than anything. If you can play a good s/d, you can probably know how to counter one.
I’d say those are 5-5 matchups at best/worst.
Nothing really hardcounters (2-8 or 1-9 matchups) the AcroTrick S/D thief atm.
This. I think old Dhuumfire necro would get a 7-3 though, as one burn proc would pressure the thief long enough to Condi spike him while he uses Shadow Return to cleanse.
But with the current meta, no builds can secure a kill on a SD thief. Even other thief builds (DP) get countered slightly by SD, as they don’t have any way to cleanse the poison
What poison? Sword doesn’t have poison by itself, main-hand Dagger has.
Edit: Added quote from the post intended my question for
The steal poison. 11 seconds of poison, which makes Withdrawal completely inefficent in terms of healing.
A well trained S/D will land his steal twice in a row when fighting a D/P, ensuring that both the enemy’s Withdraw will have a 33% reduced healing (they will heal for 6k instead than 9k on average).
That is a HUGE drawback for the DP user.
If the DP is running Hide in Shadows as heal… then he has already lost the fight from the beginning.
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S/D acro thief lacks condition removal especially after lyssa nerf. Condi-bunker builds can give it a tough time. It is a very balanced build however without a hard counter. I would say conditions in general give it a hard time but with Pain Response, Shadowstep, and Sword #2, you do have options against condis.
S/D acro thief lacks condition removal especially after lyssa nerf. Condi-bunker builds can give it a tough time. It is a very balanced build however without a hard counter. I would say conditions in general give it a hard time but with Pain Response, Shadowstep, and Sword #2, you do have options against condis.
SD thieves do not have problems against conditions.
I’d say that after Warriors and MAYBE Eles, S/D thieves have the best and most reliable condition removal in the game. Pain response is great, Shadowstep is really good too when you get spiked, and Sword N2 is a guaranteed cleanse every 5s.
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Conditions still beats it, timing when said player is attempting damage, evades etc will allow you to see a pattern. In the end, it is a challenge unless you use a SoH thief or a perma stealth thief to kill one.
The SoH thief has to do it right first time, otherwise the evade thief will do what it does best.
Perma stealth thief has the advantge from the get go, since your normally already in stealth. Can also bounce back if said target calls for help or manages to suprise you.
Btw, don’t mean perma stealth with dagger off hand.
In the end though, any other class is instantly put into a disadvantage. Evades are over powered in gw2 and thieves are still able to abuse it.
As a roamer and burster, you really shouldn’t be too concerned about 1v1.
If you’re fighting a fair fight, you’re doing it wrong.
As a roamer i tend to inavde far or burst strugglers in midfights.
Now far has either nobody -> cap
1 person -> win 1v1 + cap
more than 1 person -> disengage and help end outnumbered midfight quickly
how is that wrong?
Ghostwolf explained it quite well.
In a competitive scenario home point is typically held by a strong and durable build. One that can last a few moments even when outnumbered and one that excels at 1v1 scenarios. Hence Hambows, Minion Masters and Spirit Rangers are often found camping home point.
And none of these builds are easy kills for a Thief. Even if you can win it will always cost you a lot of time and you might not even be able to cap the point before reinforcements arrive.
That’s why I always frown at Thieves who insist on pushing far point even when it’s guarded. Not only does it achieve very little, it can also cost them a team-fight somewhere else.
condition won’t work, s/d is one of the only specs on thief that can cleanse a massive amount of conditions…
as for damage, boon strip lowers theirs, not having boons on yourself also helps keep their damage and survivability down, though when u can, apply weakness, even though it will get stripped in a few seconds, it helps stop their dodging ability
I was a power ranger before it was cool.
Guild Leader of Favorable Winds [Wind]
Can you explain how x/P counters S/D? There doesn’t seem like there’s anything I can do as I get downed before I can do anything. I can’t heartseeker into stealth properly otherwise I’ll die. I currently use D/P in PvP and I find that it’s hard to deal with S/D.
Well they do crap kitten dmg if you aren’t stacking might for them to steal. So a Thief with a non-handholding-crutch build that actually does damage will counter it if you know how to time your burst right after evades..
Don’t know what’s your definition of “counter” to S/D, so i’ll just post some hard match-ups:
Any x/P thief
Condibomb builds
Bunker Engie
D/D Elementalist
Medi Guardian
MM Necro
Hell, I’d rather fight a Hambow than any of those specs, when I’m playing S/D
Not a single one of those specs truly counters an SD.
Killing Hambows kitten is ridiculously easy.
Do tell more. How is it “ridiculously easy”?
Avoid Earth Shaker, Backbreaker, Pin Downand Arcing Arrow", all of which are easy tells.
Only problem is Hammer #4 but you only need to use your Stunbreaker for that. You can also swap to SB when they are on Hammer and kite until they use Hammer #4 in vain.
Unless the Hambow is extremely good, they won’t even touch me when I am DP. And if they have Zerker Stance on CD, it will take between 20-30 seconds to kill them(depending on how many Endure Pain they have). I don’t even need to leave the point if they don’t use zerker stance.
Hambow is ridiculously easy to fight in 1v1. Every profession with enough DPS and dodges should not have problems with Hambows.
Hambows are a noob check in PvP: if you are having problems with them, you need to get better.
Powerpuff Girls [PPG]
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As a roamer and burster, you really shouldn’t be too concerned about 1v1.
If you’re fighting a fair fight, you’re doing it wrong.
As a roamer i tend to inavde far or burst strugglers in midfights.
Now far has either nobody -> cap
1 person -> win 1v1 + cap
more than 1 person -> disengage and help end outnumbered midfight quickly
how is that wrong?
Ghostwolf explained it quite well.
In a competitive scenario home point is typically held by a strong and durable build. One that can last a few moments even when outnumbered and one that excels at 1v1 scenarios. Hence Hambows, Minion Masters and Spirit Rangers are often found camping home point.
And none of these builds are easy kills for a Thief. Even if you can win it will always cost you a lot of time and you might not even be able to cap the point before reinforcements arrive.
That’s why I always frown at Thieves who insist on pushing far point even when it’s guarded. Not only does it achieve very little, it can also cost them a team-fight somewhere else.
1. Nobody uses MM in high-tier pvp
2. Spirit Ranger, although it’s rarely played nowadays, is usually never watching home point simply because it’s stronger in teamfights.
Running Acro is about avoiding damage through evasion, which works through 1. knowing tells and reacting to them quickly or 2. prediction.
In my opinion, Engineers are a soft-counter to evasion Thieves because they are more flexible than other classes, and therefore much harder to predict.
condition won’t work, s/d is one of the only specs on thief that can cleanse a massive amount of conditions…
as for damage, boon strip lowers theirs, not having boons on yourself also helps keep their damage and survivability down, though when u can, apply weakness, even though it will get stripped in a few seconds, it helps stop their dodging ability
S/d thieves don’t use lyssa runes anymore, so their condition removal relies entirely on infiltrators strike shadow step return and also shadow steps return. If you want to actually purge a lot of damaging conditions, you need to waste a lot in order to do it.
This then provides an opportunity to kill them or make them run for their life. Coupled with the fact that various conditions classes have CC that a s/d would also need to deal with while “purging”. You can see where I’m going with this.
condition won’t work, s/d is one of the only specs on thief that can cleanse a massive amount of conditions…
as for damage, boon strip lowers theirs, not having boons on yourself also helps keep their damage and survivability down, though when u can, apply weakness, even though it will get stripped in a few seconds, it helps stop their dodging ability
S/d thieves don’t use lyssa runes anymore, so their condition removal relies entirely on infiltrators strike shadow step return and also shadow steps return. If you want to actually purge a lot of damaging conditions, you need to waste a lot in order to do it.
This then provides an opportunity to kill them or make them run for their life. Coupled with the fact that various conditions classes have CC that a s/d would also need to deal with while “purging”. You can see where I’m going with this.
Also, poison completely neuters Withdraw as a heal.
I’ve always believed that pretty much any class will destroy a thief provided they outplay. Imo, thief doesn’t really hard counter anything. To win as a thief, you kind of just have to outplay your opponents…
That being said, pretty much anything condition heavy is difficult for thieves to play against. I always have tons of trouble against Necros and Engis. A smart player will try to 100% poison a thief, because it puts a huge damper on withdraw.
I’ve always believed that pretty much any class will destroy a thief provided they outplay. Imo, thief doesn’t really hard counter anything. To win as a thief, you kind of just have to outplay your opponent.
This might be the case against heavy classes but it’s just dead wrong against burst ele or shatter mesmer. Thief has an advantage against most light armor burst specs just due to the mechanics. It’s not a bad thing, not saying thief should be nerfed since 1v1s isn’t what the game is about. But saying you have to outplay all your opponents is just wrong.
People call me Hobo.
Violent Tendency [vT]
Ferguson’s Crossing Roamer
I’ve always believed that pretty much any class will destroy a thief provided they outplay. Imo, thief doesn’t really hard counter anything. To win as a thief, you kind of just have to outplay your opponents…
That being said, pretty much anything condition heavy is difficult for thieves to play against. I always have tons of trouble against Necros and Engis. A smart player will try to 100% poison a thief, because it puts a huge damper on withdraw.
Any class will destroy any other class provided they outplay. Your argument is pretty moot.
if you wanna destroy s/d thief just interrupt his rotations (its pretty much like d/d ele)
cripple, chill, immobilize… and he runs away. but good s/d is hard to counter
if you wanna destroy s/d thief just interrupt his rotations (its pretty much like d/d ele)
cripple, chill, immobilize… and he runs away. but good s/d is hard to counter
New SD builds don’t have rotations. Thieves in general don’t rely on rotations. The initiative mechanic makes rotations totally useless for a thief.
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if you wanna destroy s/d thief just interrupt his rotations (its pretty much like d/d ele)
cripple, chill, immobilize… and he runs away. but good s/d is hard to counter
New SD builds don’t have rotations. Thieves in general don’t rely on rotations. The initiative mechanic makes rotations totally useless for a thief.
Could you give an example link to that SD build you’re talking about please? And what type of armor they are going if thats possible. thanks
if you wanna destroy s/d thief just interrupt his rotations (its pretty much like d/d ele)
cripple, chill, immobilize… and he runs away. but good s/d is hard to counter
New SD builds don’t have rotations. Thieves in general don’t rely on rotations. The initiative mechanic makes rotations totally useless for a thief.
Could you give an example link to that SD build you’re talking about please? And what type of armor they are going if thats possible. thanks
