Guild Wars 2

Hello guys!

I am new to thief and I would like to know the best weapon for single target DPS in PVE. I am currently using shortbow for my pve needs and it’s working great. However, I found that killing veterans, champs or bosses are kinda hard with shortbow and hence I would like to know which weapon (or weapon set) offers highest DPS to single target?

Thank you.

dagger mainhand.

thread closed :P

and for PVE content dagger+pistol for Black Powder

Riccardo.7254:

dagger mainhand.

thread closed :P

and for PVE content dagger+pistol for Black Powder

Should probably reopen the thread because dagger isn’t best single target DPS. A D/D rotation with Cloak and Dagger > Backstab is, but dagger by itself, not. Sword deals more if you just look at the skills on the main hand weapon.

Sword isn’t single target.

v Just saying. OP asked for single target and I give it to him. Dubl Ds and Pew/Pew
(unless traited). :I #floodcontrolsucks

Zacchary.6183:

Sword isn’t single target.

Such a downside

Like guang said, d/d is the highest single target you can do as a thief, start of with cloak and dagger, the get behind the enemy and backstab (your stealth 1 skill). Then perform your auto attack chain until you have full initiative again then repeat. Your trait setup should be 66002 with this so that you get the bonus damage from having over 6 initiative while attacking. Have fun =)

S/D Flanking strike vs D/D backstab. My vote is S/D for single target.

S/D is also universal in any game format for single target dominance.

S/D does more damage, the auto chain hits way harder it also has more uptime since you do not have to move behind the target and can reengage much faster after dodge.

You never ever in any conceivable situation in this game will match sword damage with daggers over a longer time frame.

Dagger is for Backstab. And then you will need another dagger in offhand. But in PvE pistol is way to proffit cause of mass blind.

Best single target dps is D/D, best setup on fast farming mobs is D/P, best aoe dps with sustain is S/P, S/D is realy bad on PVE

Bazzoong.7145:

S/D does more damage, the auto chain hits way harder it also has more uptime since you do not have to move behind the target and can reengage much faster after dodge.

You never ever in any conceivable situation in this game will match sword damage with daggers over a longer time frame.

When it comes solely to pure single target dps, nothing can match 6/6/2 D/D. 2 in shadow arts for infusion of shadows so u can CnD and backstab as soon as revealed is off and keep your initiative over 6 at all times while doing it. There is no reason to pick S/D instead S/P for pve, except boon steal. S/P will do same dps with autoatacks and pistol whip has much longer evade frame then S/D 3333. S/P also offers good defiant stacks cleaner.

Pve… use S/P… pistol wip… is so strong plus it hit multiple time/target…For 1 shot target with one hit is probabbly backstab on DD teef.

D/D is the highest single target damage for thief period.

Just saw a post on Mag forums where some dood landed a 20K BS in WvW

Guys…. we are talking about single target, not dueling. There is a difference.

When I look for a damage, I’m not just looking at how much damage a weapon set can do at any given time, but how much damage it can do over time. Dagger main may have the highest burst but it is hindered by the Revealed timer. If stealth is not hindered, backstab will definitely be the best damage overall and Dagger main is the best single target weapon. Unfortunately, this is not the case.

In a tank-and-spank scenario, when the target stays in one spot, I would have to agree that Dagger main has the best single target DPS. However, a moving target effectively decreasing Dagger’s dps since the Thief is now required to get closer to land a CnD and to land a backstab. Not to mention that it cost 6 initiatives without traiting for Infusion.

S/D on the other hand has a built in gap closer to its dual-wield skill (skill #3) that makes it even better than the Dagger’s backstab in any situation. Flanking strike/Larcenous strike are also not hindered by a cooldown (revealed) and can be used in a rapid successions — upto 3 times if initiative is at 15 max. Also an added bonus to increase its damage by stealing buffs like all of the target’s might stacks. Thus consistently dealing the best single target DPS.

Ok, I ignored this thread for a while because it sounded like such a simple question, I figured it would be answered in the first reply or so, then would sink to the bottom…

…but seriously? Are people honestly arguing D/P, S/D, etc. as the best single target damage?!?!?

D/D is hands down the highest single target damage.

Use Dagger/Dagger behind your target and Cloak and Dagger → Backstab over and over until HP is below 25%. At that point, spam heartseeker. Do this with a berserker gear set and 5/6/0/0/2 + 1 spec and no other weapon set or spec for thief will produce more DPS on a single target.

Hands down.

End of thread.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

When I look for a damage, I’m not just looking at how much damage a weapon set can do at any given time, but how much damage it can do over time. Dagger main may have the highest burst but it is hindered by the Revealed timer. If stealth is not hindered, backstab will definitely be the best damage overall and Dagger main is the best single target weapon. Unfortunately, this is not the case.

In a tank-and-spank scenario, when the target stays in one spot, I would have to agree that Dagger main has the best single target DPS. However, a moving target effectively decreasing Dagger’s dps since the Thief is now required to get closer to land a CnD and to land a backstab. Not to mention that it cost 6 initiatives without traiting for Infusion.

S/D on the other hand has a built in gap closer to its dual-wield skill (skill #3) that makes it even better than the Dagger’s backstab in any situation. Flanking strike/Larcenous strike are also not hindered by a cooldown (revealed) and can be used in a rapid successions — upto 3 times if initiative is at 15 max. Also an added bonus to increase its damage by stealing buffs like all of the target’s might stacks. Thus consistently dealing the best single target DPS.

Best Single Target DPS weapon is Dagger bar none.

We aren’t talking most effective weapon in a pvp setting…no we are talking pure numbers.

As it stands right sword can’t touch dagger in single target dps.

best single target DPS – Longbow

Prysin.8542:

best single target DPS – Longbow

not in the slightest.

Ropechef.6192:

Prysin.8542:

best single target DPS – Longbow

not in the slightest.

yes it is. Best weapon is F1 on ranger to gain longbowbot…. no weapon is better then that

T raw.4658:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

When I look for a damage, I’m not just looking at how much damage a weapon set can do at any given time, but how much damage it can do over time. Dagger main may have the highest burst but it is hindered by the Revealed timer. If stealth is not hindered, backstab will definitely be the best damage overall and Dagger main is the best single target weapon. Unfortunately, this is not the case.

In a tank-and-spank scenario, when the target stays in one spot, I would have to agree that Dagger main has the best single target DPS. However, a moving target effectively decreasing Dagger’s dps since the Thief is now required to get closer to land a CnD and to land a backstab. Not to mention that it cost 6 initiatives without traiting for Infusion.

S/D on the other hand has a built in gap closer to its dual-wield skill (skill #3) that makes it even better than the Dagger’s backstab in any situation. Flanking strike/Larcenous strike are also not hindered by a cooldown (revealed) and can be used in a rapid successions — upto 3 times if initiative is at 15 max. Also an added bonus to increase its damage by stealing buffs like all of the target’s might stacks. Thus consistently dealing the best single target DPS.

Best Single Target DPS weapon is Dagger bar none.

I’ve explained the strengths and weaknesses of both D/D and S/D. In most cases I would agree with you, but not in all cases.

We aren’t talking most effective weapon in a pvp setting…no we are talking pure numbers.

Yes, pure numbers where the numbers drop when you have to chase after your target.

As it stands right sword can’t touch dagger in single target dps.

You said we’re talking about numbers, well, where’s the numbers that supports your claim?

As everyone here has said, daggers is the answer to the OP’s question. However, Sir Vincent brings up a decent point to add to that answer. While daggers is bar-none, the highest single target DPS weapon, it may not fit the OP’s playstyle. if that is the case, then you as the OP may get better results with another weapon set. So all these factors should be taken into account as you make your decision on what to equip.

D/D (for pve), is the strongest weapons set for single target dps. due tot he backstab mechanic. As well as the heartseeker once the target reaches 50% health.

here is a quote from the listed article below.

“Dagger/Dagger

Maximizing DPS on this traditional single-target weapon kit involves many intricate aspects. Depending on whether it’s important to apply weakness or gain extra endurance the auto-attack portion of the rotation can be tweaked to speed it up or slow it down. In general, you’ll want to use your hardest hitting attacks as soon as possible, while having practiced the content enough to know how many portions of the auto-attack to include as padding.

The auto-attack chain is reset when other weapon skills are used. So it is important to note when you want to use HS as much as possible, because each sequential skill of the auto-attack is weaker than it’s previous skills. Learning to pad only one or two auto-attacks in between heartseekers will help maximize DPS over the long run. It may be a good idea to practice the combos DS+HS and DS+WS+HS.

If the fight is short and maintaining initiative is of no concern, then Double Strike is enough to pad between Heartseekers. If you need to maintain initiative for a longer time such as 3-5 HS, then use DS + WS to pad in between. Spamming Heartseeker until you run out of initiative and then having to use the full auto-attack chain without the benefits of the First Strikes trait would be a DPS loss.

If you’re fighting Lupi or the Legendary Archdiviner with additional Mobs, then Dancing Dagger would replace the CnD+Backstab portion of the rotation. Once the additional mob’s health is below 50% health it is safe to switch to heartseekers against it. It is very easy to lose the 10% bonus, so try not to spam Dancing Dagger.

Above 50% Health: CnD + BS + DS,WS,LS + (Optional) DS

Below 50% Health: HS + As few Auto Attacks as possible

The extra optional DS will increase DPS overall and helps manage initiative. For best timing press CnD after the first hit of the optional DS. If you miss the timing and cancel too early, you’ll only hit DS once instead of twice which is worse than if you had skipped it entirely. Therefore, if you’re unable to do it properly, skip it entirely to maximize your DPS.

To maximize your DPS even more, you can use Smoke Screen and HS after 50% to get the power boost from Revealed Training. Place it behind the target to get the Backstab right after you use HS, then use DS + WS + HS + DS + HS + Backstab to activate Revealed Training again.

During encounters where phase between 50% to 25% health takes longer than 30 seconds, we recommend continuing the CnD + BS rotation that was being used above 50% health. This would probably happen during Lupi in Arah or against the Arch Diviner in Fractals."

the link below is a guide that was written by the games current speedrunners.

http://dulfy.net/2014/07/10/gw2-thief-pve-class-guide/#DaggerDagger

Tengu.5267:

D/D (for pve), is the strongest weapons set for single target dps. due tot he backstab mechanic. As well as the heartseeker once the target reaches 50% health.

here is a quote from the listed article below.
~snip~

Also from the same article:

“Flanking Strike / Larcenous Strike (s/d)
Flanking Strike is a cleaving attack which evades and opens up Larcenous Strike for three seconds. Larcenous Strike hits a single-target, has very high DPS, and can steal one boon from the target.”

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Tengu.5267:

D/D (for pve), is the strongest weapons set for single target dps. due tot he backstab mechanic. As well as the heartseeker once the target reaches 50% health.

here is a quote from the listed article below.
~snip~

Also from the same article:

“Flanking Strike / Larcenous Strike (s/d)
Flanking Strike is a cleaving attack which evades and opens up Larcenous Strike for three seconds. Larcenous Strike hits a single-target, has very high DPS, and can steal one boon from the target.”

Larcenous Strike has a high dps when it hits. but have you looked at the time it takes in order to land the attack, as well as the dps loss by the “evade” animation? Or the amount of initiative it takes in order to “sustain” this damage? For max dps, your traits will be 6/6/0/0/2. Which means that you’ll have the standard pool of initiative. (Thieves have a base of 12 initiative)

(I saw before that you require numbers in order to full grasp this concept. So I’ll do my best to accommodate you.)

The Dagger auto attack is an Attack rate is one sequence per 2.07 seconds.
The Sword auto attack is an Attack rate is one sequence per 2.52 seconds.

Flanking Strike: cost 3 initiative, cast time ½ of a second. Base damage: Damage: 252 (0.75)

Larcenous Strike: cost 2 initiative, cast time ½ of a second. Base damage: Damage: 365 (1.5)

Cloak and Dagger: cost 6 initiative, cast time ½ of a second. Base damage: Damage: 504 (1.0)

Back Stab: cost: nothing, cast time ¼ of a second. Base Damage: Front damage: 403 (1.2)
Back damage: 806 (2.4)

Heartseeker: cost: 3 initiative, cast time ¾ of a second. Base Damage: 100%-50%: 336 (1.0)? 50%-25%: 504 (1.5)? 25%-0%: 672 (2.0)?

I left the hyper link for “damage” so you can view the formula in order to how much damage each attack deals with your current setup. If not, here is the formula.

Tooltip damage = (average weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (level-based Armor value)

Larcenous Strike:
So, in order to maximize your dps for larcenous strike, (removing steal, for simplicity sake) you’ll have to Cloak and Dagger before landing this attack. (this way you’ll get the +200 power for the revealed training trait). So let’s break the rotation down. Precast flanking strike (1/2 second) dealing 252 (0.75) damage cost 3 initiative. then holding Larcenous strike. (no damage, cost: 0) > Cloak and Dagger (1/2 second) dealing 504 (1.0) cost 6 initiative. Then Larcenous strike. (1/2 second) dealing 365 (1.5): cost 2 initiative). (This string has spent a total of 11 initiative. (before natural initiative regen or trait regen). Total time spend within the animations are 1.5 seconds to land 3 hits. In the time between the attacks you could try to filler with sword auto attacks. (this might be difficult to do with in the time frame for sustained damage, as well as burst.) so with the time and initiative spend you are looking at a total of a 10% damage loss due to being below the threshold for First strikes.

Taking into the “Revealed” debuff of 3 seconds. Over the course of a 5 min fight you can perform this attack strings a total of 66 times.

Dagger/Dagger, Backstab:

I’ll paraphrase the link from the previous article.

Above 50% Health: CnD + BS + DS,WS,LS + (Optional) DS
Below 50% Health: HS + As few Auto Attacks as possible

So starting with 12 initiative, you begin by using Cloak and Dagger: (1/2 of a second) dealing 504 (1.0) cost 6 initiative. Once done, you’ll use Backstab: (1/4 of a second) dealing 806 (2.4) cost: 0. This way you’ll have the full benefit of “Revealed training, as well as First Strikes. Deal an extra 10% damage. Total time 0.75 seconds. Once the target is below 50% health your attack string will be Heartseeker (3/4 of a second) dealing 50%-25%: 504 (1.5) 25%-0%: 672 (2.0) cost of 3 initiative.

Taking into the “Revealed” debuff of 3 seconds. Over the course of a 5 min fight you can perform these two attack strings a total of 80 times.

Now just looking at the rough numbers, you have a much higher coefficient with the Dagger/Dagger set, along with a faster attack string as well as an increase of damage as the targets health drops. This total attack string also only cost 6 initiative. Over all seems that Dagger/Dagger is by far the best weapons set for single target dps.

I hope this helps.

Let’s clear something up:

DPS is not the same as DAMAGE

Larcenous Strike has high DAMAGE, but it’s DPS isn’t as great because you have to cast Flanking Strike (a low DAMAGE skill) before you are able to use it.

Tengu.5267:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Tengu.5267:

D/D (for pve), is the strongest weapons set for single target dps. due tot he backstab mechanic. As well as the heartseeker once the target reaches 50% health.

here is a quote from the listed article below.
~snip~

Also from the same article:

“Flanking Strike / Larcenous Strike (s/d)
Flanking Strike is a cleaving attack which evades and opens up Larcenous Strike for three seconds. Larcenous Strike hits a single-target, has very high DPS, and can steal one boon from the target.”

Larcenous Strike has a high dps when it hits. but have you looked at the time it takes in order to land the attack, as well as the dps loss by the “evade” animation? Or the amount of initiative it takes in order to “sustain” this damage? For max dps, your traits will be 6/6/0/0/2. Which means that you’ll have the standard pool of initiative. (Thieves have a base of 12 initiative)

If you find that part of the article of an error, then I question the validity of the whole article.

Fair enough?

The article isn’t in error. DPS is different from Damage in that DPS means ‘damage per second’. So while a single skill in one weapon set can be high damage, it’s long cast time (or other qualifiers) can keep it from being high DPS.

e.g.: Using my made up numbers (and weapon options) for easy clarity,

Thief machine gun auto hits 10 damage every second.

Thief cannon hits 80 damage on 9 second cool down.

While cannon is a high damage, it is lower DPS than the machine gun because MG hits 100 damage every 100 seconds while cannon hits less than 100 damage every hundred seconds.

So the DPS is:

MG- 10 DPS (damage per second)
Cannon- 8.88 DPS (damage per second)

Cannon attack is high damage but low DPS when compared with MG. But if we only look at the 1 second it takes to cast the cannon attack, it is a very high DPS. Just not when compared to MG.

Dustfinger.9510:

~snip~

You didn’t need to go through all that trouble. If the article is being used as a reliable source, then if it says “DPS” then it is DPS. If they meant to post “DAMAGE” then they should have post DAMAGE. If that is an error, posting DPS instead of DAMAGE, then the validity of the article is questionable.

Otherwise, it’s fair game . They can quote the article to support their claim and so can I.

I have other source that supports that when the author posted “DPS”, they really mean DPS, not DAMAGE.

I think you’re missing something. Larcenous Strike IS a high DPS attack as the article states. But several factors (Including cast time and initiative cost) keep it from carrying the entire weapon to be the equal or better of D/D. Your examples in the article don’t actually speak against it’s validity. because there are simply some cases where DPS and damage are interchangeable. But the issue is a weapon set against another. Not a single attack against another.

The article says it is high DPS. When we look simply at the skill it is. But it is a non-factor when combined with the rest of the attacks and then compared with D/D attacks.

You can even feel free to dismiss the article as a source. If the numbers in the article are right and the math applied to the numbers is correct, then they speak for themselves.

Dustfinger.9510:

I think you’re missing something. Larcenous Strike IS a high DPS attack as the article states. But several factors (Including cast time and initiative cost) keep it from carrying the entire weapon to be the equal or better of D/D. Your examples in the article don’t actually speak against it’s validity. because there are simply some cases where DPS and damage are interchangeable. But the issue is a weapon set against another. Not a single attack against another.

The article says it is high DPS. When we look simply at the skill it is. But it is a non-factor when combined with the rest of the attacks and then compared with D/D attacks.

How can you claim it to be “high” DPS when there are several factors that hinders it from being “high” DPS?

You can’t have it both ways. Either it is or it is not.

For the record, I believe that the article is correct when the author wrote DPS instead of DAMAGE.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

How can you claim it to be “high” DPS when there are several factors that hinders it from being “high” DPS?

You can’t have it both ways. Either it is or it is not.

For the record, I believe that the article is correct when the author wrote DPS instead of DAMAGE.

You absolutely CAN have it both ways when the answer is dependant on a relative way of looking at it. Either it stands on it’s own and it can be high DPS or it is compared to a higher DPS attack(s) and it suddenly becomes low. Terms like big and small are relative just like high and low are.

The real question is whether or not you believe the math. That is what you asked for after all.

edit: If you believe that that portion of the article is correct, how are you using it to question the validity of the article? Tengu didn’t say it was incorrect.

we can all play the word game if you chose. here is a quote from the same article.

“Weapons
Dagger

Dagger provides the highest single target DPS skills. Let’s look at them individually:

Auto-Attack: Double Strike, Wild Strike, & Lotus Strike

Double Strike consists of 2 fast attacks (0.38s), Wild Strike of a slower, stronger attack which restores 10 endurance (0.74s), and Lotus Strike, which is as strong as Wild Strike, applies 4 seconds of poison, but is the slowest attack of all three (0.91s).

Together the Autoattack has a full duration of 2.03 seconds, and each successive skill of the auto-attack has a lower DPS than it’s previous skill. That means Double Strike has a higher DPS than Wild Strike, which has a higher DPS than Lotus Strike. It is recommended to break the chain as early as possible to maximise DPS.

Stealth Skill: Backstab

Backstab replaces your auto-attack chain when you enter stealth. It hits for double the damage when used at a foe’s flanking position (this includes the sides, see mechanics for more details).

Heartseeker
This skill gets stronger the less health your target has. It is generally recommended to use this after your foe has lost half it’s health. The damage increases even more against targets with less than 25% health. Because of it’s low cast time, it is generally regarded to be the strongest single target DPS skill for a thief.
The leap range can be increased by buffs like swiftness and decreased by conditions like crippled and chill. It is possible to manipulate the distance with your camera as well. If you look at your character from a bird’s eye view above, it will shorten the leap."

overall playing that sort of game is irrelevant. The true topic is weather or not Dagger/Dagger is the highest dps set for Thief.. and with everything that i posted earlier, it is.

Anyone claiming that S/x is anywhere close to D/D for single-target DPS is misguided at best and maliciously deceitful at worst.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bAcpwAdwB24CxK_Ziy8ygISUHCkQepLfRMh2_PtP52o/edit#gid=1883199869

Unless you find a way for S/D or S/P to reach at least 10.7k DPS on a single target in optimal conditions, you have an entire catalog of research against you. Throwing around wiki articles with vague descriptions and not bringing any proper numbers or evidence to the table is going to get you nowhere.

Auesis.7301:

Anyone claiming that S/x is anywhere close to D/D for single-target DPS is misguided at best and maliciously deceitful at worst.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bAcpwAdwB24CxK_Ziy8ygISUHCkQepLfRMh2_PtP52o/edit#gid=1883199869

Unless you find a way for S/D or S/P to reach at least 10.7k DPS on a single target in optimal conditions, you have an entire catalog of research against you. Throwing around wiki articles with vague descriptions and not bringing any proper numbers or evidence to the table is going to get you nowhere.

Very nice! thank you for sharing this!

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Dustfinger.9510:

I think you’re missing something. Larcenous Strike IS a high DPS attack as the article states. But several factors (Including cast time and initiative cost) keep it from carrying the entire weapon to be the equal or better of D/D. Your examples in the article don’t actually speak against it’s validity. because there are simply some cases where DPS and damage are interchangeable. But the issue is a weapon set against another. Not a single attack against another.

The article says it is high DPS. When we look simply at the skill it is. But it is a non-factor when combined with the rest of the attacks and then compared with D/D attacks.

How can you claim it to be “high” DPS when there are several factors that hinders it from being “high” DPS?

You can’t have it both ways. Either it is or it is not.

For the record, I believe that the article is correct when the author wrote DPS instead of DAMAGE.

Seriously why are you even trying to argue about this? I’m pretty sure you know that D/D is hand down the best single target dps the thief has. I’m not saying this is the best weapon set because it isn’t, but it is indeed the best dps.

So I must question your motive by trying to argue this, fooling newbie teefs into thinking S/D is good for dps? Because no veteran thieves are gonna be fooled by your silly word plays and nitpick on a perfectly fine article.

S/D is a defensive weapon set focusing on evades and mobility with #2, always has been, always will be. It can hit hard, but all thieves weapon sets hit hard anyways.

RyanDancePls.7351:

Seriously why are you even trying to argue about this? I’m pretty sure you know that D/D is hand down the best single target dps the thief has. I’m not saying this is the best weapon set because it isn’t, but it is indeed the best dps.

So I must question your motive by trying to argue this, fooling newbie teefs into thinking S/D is good for dps? Because no veteran thieves are gonna be fooled by your silly word plays and nitpick on a perfectly fine article.

S/D is a defensive weapon set focusing on evades and mobility with #2, always has been, always will be. It can hit hard, but all thieves weapon sets hit hard anyways.

I am simply exposing the disservice provided to the uninformed that D/D is the best single DPS.

I have agreed on the fact that D/D shines at some fights and not all the fights since it has a major major flaw in dealing with buffs, which in turns makes the whole weapon set crap.

I am in no way saying that S/D is better than D/D in terms of numbers, instead, I am saying that S/D has the overall consistent single target DPS. Where the D/D set has a very high and very low DPS, S/D has a consistent high DPS.

If the target is not moving and has no buff, sure D/D is the highest DPS, hand down. However, when other factors are introduced, D/D’s DPS falls significantly and in many ways has nothing to mitigate the situation. A single protection buff kills the D/D’s DPS.

S/D on the other hand, may not have the high DPS against unmoving and unbuffed target, but that target can only be found in cities called “target dummy”. In the real fight, S/D does not only removes buffs on the target, but it also applies the buff onto the Thief, thus in some cases even improves the Thief’s DPS.

If you review my response, the only intention of my post is to show that D/D is not everything, that Thieves have other weapon sets with high DPS in every situation. While other profession may stick to a couple of weapon set, that would be unwise when playing a Thief since each weapon set in our profession have a purpose.

The best Single Target DPS Weapon is D/D. Everywhere.

Zacchary.6183:

Sword isn’t single target.

v Just saying. OP asked for single target and I give it to him. Dubl Ds and Pew/Pew
(unless traited). :I #floodcontrolsucks

It’s, if you spam C&D and TS

Sir Vincent III.1286:

RyanDancePls.7351:

Seriously why are you even trying to argue about this? I’m pretty sure you know that D/D is hand down the best single target dps the thief has. I’m not saying this is the best weapon set because it isn’t, but it is indeed the best dps.

So I must question your motive by trying to argue this, fooling newbie teefs into thinking S/D is good for dps? Because no veteran thieves are gonna be fooled by your silly word plays and nitpick on a perfectly fine article.

S/D is a defensive weapon set focusing on evades and mobility with #2, always has been, always will be. It can hit hard, but all thieves weapon sets hit hard anyways.

I am simply exposing the disservice provided to the uninformed that D/D is the best single DPS.

I have agreed on the fact that D/D shines at some fights and not all the fights since it has a major major flaw in dealing with buffs, which in turns makes the whole weapon set crap.

I am in no way saying that S/D is better than D/D in terms of numbers, instead, I am saying that S/D has the overall consistent single target DPS. Where the D/D set has a very high and very low DPS, S/D has a consistent high DPS.

If the target is not moving and has no buff, sure D/D is the highest DPS, hand down. However, when other factors are introduced, D/D’s DPS falls significantly and in many ways has nothing to mitigate the situation. A single protection buff kills the D/D’s DPS.

S/D on the other hand, may not have the high DPS against unmoving and unbuffed target, but that target can only be found in cities called “target dummy”. In the real fight, S/D does not only removes buffs on the target, but it also applies the buff onto the Thief, thus in some cases even improves the Thief’s DPS.

If you review my response, the only intention of my post is to show that D/D is not everything, that Thieves have other weapon sets with high DPS in every situation. While other profession may stick to a couple of weapon set, that would be unwise when playing a Thief since each weapon set in our profession have a purpose.

No…no…

There is no “consistent DPS” advantage with S/D. Yes, there is a big spike of damage with D/D when you CnD→ BS, but the dagger autoattack even without the CnD/BS is higher DPS than the sword autoattack. D/D does more consistent DPS AND more burst DPS.

Yea, you can boon steal with S/D in a handful of areas in PvE, but that doesn’t make S/D a better single target DPS weapon (which is what this thread is about).

Dahkeus.8243:

No…no…

There is no “consistent DPS” advantage with S/D. Yes, there is a big spike of damage with D/D when you CnD-> BS, but the dagger autoattack even without the CnD/BS is higher DPS than the sword autoattack. D/D does more consistent DPS AND more burst DPS.

Didn’t you read what I’ve posted?

Yea, you can boon steal with S/D in a handful of areas in PvE, but that doesn’t make S/D a better single target DPS weapon (which is what this thread is about).

If you think that D/D is the answer to the OP’s question, then I digress. I guess the OP will figure it out soon enough.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Dahkeus.8243:

No…no…

There is no “consistent DPS” advantage with S/D. Yes, there is a big spike of damage with D/D when you CnD-> BS, but the dagger autoattack even without the CnD/BS is higher DPS than the sword autoattack. D/D does more consistent DPS AND more burst DPS.

Didn’t you read what I’ve posted?

Yea, you can boon steal with S/D in a handful of areas in PvE, but that doesn’t make S/D a better single target DPS weapon (which is what this thread is about).

If you think that D/D is the answer to the OP’s question, then I digress. I guess the OP will figure it out soon enough.

Yes he will figure out the answer to his question very readily. the numbers don’t lie.

Tengu.5267:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Dahkeus.8243:

No…no…

There is no “consistent DPS” advantage with S/D. Yes, there is a big spike of damage with D/D when you CnD-> BS, but the dagger autoattack even without the CnD/BS is higher DPS than the sword autoattack. D/D does more consistent DPS AND more burst DPS.

Didn’t you read what I’ve posted?

Yea, you can boon steal with S/D in a handful of areas in PvE, but that doesn’t make S/D a better single target DPS weapon (which is what this thread is about).

If you think that D/D is the answer to the OP’s question, then I digress. I guess the OP will figure it out soon enough.

Yes he will figure out the answer to his question very readily. the numbers don’t lie.

Except that some numbers are not representative.

Then provide them. I’ve posted the numbers for D/D as well as a variant for S/D with the highest damage spec for thief.
Also if that isn’t enough, various speed runner’s have posted the numbers, guides and video’s for D/D. so far we haven’t seen any documentation on your opinion.

Tengu.5267:

Then provide them. I’ve posted the numbers for D/D as well as a variant for S/D with the highest damage spec for thief.
Also if that isn’t enough, various speed runner’s have posted the numbers, guides and video’s for D/D. so far we haven’t seen any documentation on your opinion.

Don’t bother arguing this guy. The numbers have been done on D/D vs all other weapon sets by all the serious theorycrafters and there’s a reason no one in DnT will advocate taking S/D pretty much ever in PvE dungeons.

Dahkeus.8243:

Tengu.5267:

Then provide them. I’ve posted the numbers for D/D as well as a variant for S/D with the highest damage spec for thief.
Also if that isn’t enough, various speed runner’s have posted the numbers, guides and video’s for D/D. so far we haven’t seen any documentation on your opinion.

Don’t bother arguing this guy. The numbers have been done on D/D vs all other weapon sets by all the serious theorycrafters and there’s a reason no one in DnT will advocate taking S/D pretty much ever in PvE dungeons.

I’ve noticed a tendency with certain members of this particular part of the forums that seem to just post things for the sake of arguing. The Guardian forums have them from time to time. You just have to ignore their ranting sometimes.

Regardless, there was a good point brought up. Mobility can play a factor in the “best weapon” discussion. S/D does allow you to stick to your target more easily, though that’s not to say that D/D doesn’t either. S/D just feels like it does the job better. If sticking to your target isn’t a problem for you, then yeah, D/D all the way.

Just my 2 coppers.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Dahkeus.8243:

Tengu.5267:

Then provide them. I’ve posted the numbers for D/D as well as a variant for S/D with the highest damage spec for thief.
Also if that isn’t enough, various speed runner’s have posted the numbers, guides and video’s for D/D. so far we haven’t seen any documentation on your opinion.

Don’t bother arguing this guy. The numbers have been done on D/D vs all other weapon sets by all the serious theorycrafters and there’s a reason no one in DnT will advocate taking S/D pretty much ever in PvE dungeons.

I’ve noticed a tendency with certain members of this particular part of the forums that seem to just post things for the sake of arguing. The Guardian forums have them from time to time.

Regardless, there was a good point brought up. Mobility can play a factor in the “best weapon” discussion. S/D does allow you to stick to your target more easily, though that’s not to say that D/D doesn’t either. S/D just feels like it does the job better. If sticking to your target isn’t a problem for you, then yeah, D/D all the way.

Just my 2 coppers.

In PvE there’s no reason to consider the ability to stick to a target since mobs always run up to you. Are you arguing for PvP? If so, that has nothing to do with this thread.

Anything that does try to run away in PvE is easy to catch up to and can usually be caught with steal/inf sig/heartseeker easily enough and won’t cause the S/D to catch up in DPS to D/D, let alone surpass it.

Really any situation that works well for S/D in PvE is done better by S/P anyways.

Dahkeus.8243:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Dahkeus.8243:

Tengu.5267:

Then provide them. I’ve posted the numbers for D/D as well as a variant for S/D with the highest damage spec for thief.
Also if that isn’t enough, various speed runner’s have posted the numbers, guides and video’s for D/D. so far we haven’t seen any documentation on your opinion.

Don’t bother arguing this guy. The numbers have been done on D/D vs all other weapon sets by all the serious theorycrafters and there’s a reason no one in DnT will advocate taking S/D pretty much ever in PvE dungeons.

I’ve noticed a tendency with certain members of this particular part of the forums that seem to just post things for the sake of arguing. The Guardian forums have them from time to time.

Regardless, there was a good point brought up. Mobility can play a factor in the “best weapon” discussion. S/D does allow you to stick to your target more easily, though that’s not to say that D/D doesn’t either. S/D just feels like it does the job better. If sticking to your target isn’t a problem for you, then yeah, D/D all the way.

Just my 2 coppers.

In PvE there’s no reason to consider the ability to stick to a target since mobs always run up to you. Are you arguing for PvP? If so, that has nothing to do with this thread.

Anything that does try to run away in PvE is easy to catch up to and can usually be caught with steal/inf sig/heartseeker easily enough and won’t cause the S/D to catch up in DPS to D/D, let alone surpass it.

Really any situation that works well for S/D in PvE is done better by S/P anyways.

Oh yeah, I forgot the PvE designation in the OP due to being caught up in the argument for S/D. I was thinking along the lines of WvW, and just generally speaking overall. Definately D/D for single target PvE.

PVE just go S/P spam Pistol Whip any build will work for as long as u have “executioner” trait and shortbow! and use signet of malice not only good for single target but AOE

I would say watch this vid should give you idea how fast to have it.

Rogue Gameplay