Guild Wars 2

Hi all, I play a mesmer and a thief and frequent both forums. I like both classes because they favor thought and strategy over brute force approaches. One thing I noticed is on the mesmer forums is that 90% of the people are either offering friendly advice, posting build ideas or having civil debates. there are the occasional trolls and mesmer haters who post demanding nerfs as well, but it’s minor.

On the thief forums I see something else entirely. I think it’s closer to 50% of people interested in sharing ideas and pushing the game forward, and the other 50% trying to shut them down. I get the feeling that while I gravitated to the thief because of the unique playstyle, others just did it because they like kitten ing people off. And whereas I came on the forums because I love the game and want to keep talking about it and brainstorming new ideas within it, others just come on the forums to troll. The thing is it’s not other classes complaining about how op’d thieves are, it’s thief players. Like they want to drive away noobs by taunting them when they ask a noob question, or insult someone for sharing a video thats not elite enough. When someone posts a build someone immediately has to tell them that they’re either dumb for making a weak build, or noobish for making a common/powerful build type, or that they shouldn’t be posting builds at all…well then what’s the point of class specific forums? It’s like they want the class to be completely OP’d and for no one else to play it, so they can feel like petty gods in game. And it’s not enough for them to kitten people off in game, they have to follow their fellow class on the forums and try to kitten them off here.

sorry for the rant, I’d just like for people to try to be supportive, or at least civil with one another.

I know…welcome to the internet.

It’s proven that negativity has a way of sticking around in human memory far better than positivity, however:

There are many extremely helpful, detailed, encouraging, and informative posts on the thief forum. I have seen paragraph-filled posts where players have spent time and effort to pour out their thoughts. It’s a disservice to these players to go around calling the thief forums “full of trolls.”

I’m not trying to argue with you, but I would like to remind people that some negativity does not erase the work of the many civil players here.

yup, I do agree with you…there are many positive posts and portions of threads on these forums too…it just feels like that negativity is very frequent.

also, i didnt realize that the word I used would be caught by the profanity filter…guess I should have said, ‘ticking people off’.

The Thief forums are generally negative because people feel like that have been consistently singled out. Why? A significant part of the general MMO player base has real emotional issues when it comes to encountering stealth mechanics in a PvP situation. These players don’t like dying to a steatlh build, regardless of the MMO. This causes them to loudly complain until they can get the game changed until it’s not longer possible for them to die to stealth tactics.

While my own main character Thief is a non-stealth build for PvE / WvW, it seems like a large majority of the people on these forums are based around stealth builds. With every tweak or nerf to stealth mechanics, a majority of Thief players get hurt. Then when this continues to happen again and again, it starts to make people angry. As if this isn’t bad enough, PvE Thief players also notice that a Warrior’s PvE potential isn’t being nerfed. At this point, Thief players start to get bitter.

At this point, I’ve got x2 Thieves, x2 Warriors, and x2 Engineers. I’ve seen nerfs and buffs across many levels. Some classes have more of a well deserved right to complain, while others don’t understand about just how good they have things. Amongst all of these Thief players seem the most bitter and it’s really easy to figure out why. Anti-stealth players are permanently messing with this class. The same goes for anti-burst players. Until this class gets the promised “mobility” buffs to replace what people are losing, I’d expect a noticably portion of this forum to be an angry and frustrated place.

Thieves are frustrating. It’s practically a core mechanic. Their survivability is based on not being hit. When someone uses their move and misses, that annoys them. You run after a thief, and poof, they’re gone, or behind you, or where are they? Annoying. Got burst down because you weren’t paying attention, stuff was on cooldown, or you weren’t using a build with an escape option? Annoying. A P/D shoots you on and off for 3 minutes and then gets a stealth stomp on you after you find help and then run into enemies? RAWR!

Annoyed people tend to vent. The forum is a convenient place for it. Better here than at some random stranger on the street, right?

And then, you get the people who LIKE to annoy other people. Thief has the tools for that.

Well, you are right there are two types of posts here. They fall into 2 categories:

1. Nerf the thief. The message usually starts with “I am a thief and blah blah blah” Basically it is just someone who got pwned by a thief and wants to make themselves feel better. Real thieves than attack this poster because it is obviously BS.

2. Help me: Typically these types of posts are well received and people offer help.

Lets be honest here and cut all the BS. If you look at mmo history classes with stealth get singled out. To my knowledge this is the most active combat stealth any class has ever gotten in one game. If you add that in with the number of evasive builds and the fact that thief movement is above each and every other class.

You end up with this situation. Not only can this class actively disengage from combat but it can also run away where only 2 classes have the possibility of catching up. If I chose to run likely I will get caught because you cant out run the thief. Your only option to win and likely y burst but thieves have one of the strongest burst builds and if I don’t avoid them while they are stealth I will get hit with it.

You tell this to a new player wtf are they supposed to do? If you actively search for the thief while stealth he may burst you the only way to know your hitting him is is you have an attack chain attack handy. The most popular stun breaker has 1200 range 2 ways on the most mobile class you wont catch up. If you run you’ll die vs most builds. Your only option to winning in an equal fight is going to water or simply out playing the thief. And then you have blind and perma stealth. Not even getting into heart seeker.

Now in PvE non of this matters and here we have one of the squishiest least useful classes to any team. Outside picking up members who fail at dungeon mechanics lest they be in an aoe then the thief cant do kitten. Sustained isn’t all that great and it is out shined by warrior and guardian.

To most players this is simply too much to handle solo. And in many cases too much to handle 1vx. Mesmer on the other had has weak access to stealth and not that much chase ie you could run.

Without out all QQ my warrior will usually beat a thief 1v1 as long as they aren’t PD (just run in that case). That being said the class is OP in WvW. Its UP in PvE and nigh useless in Tpvp but dominant in Spvp pick up/random.

To sum this all up any class with stealth is OP because stealth is inherently OP but the obscene amount of stealth thief gets is really too much. However, Anet saw fit to place all the good traits and burst (banging fist on table) inherently tied to stealth. Leaving the thief with nearly no option beside 2-3 under powered builds outside of stealth.

As of this moment this class has top mobility, top escape, top burst (100 nades used to beat it), most evades, combat stealth, and the capability to spam powerful skills. It also has a bad ranged weapon no true build diversity a bad reputation and no true place outside WvW.

To other thieves understand this if you are top in WvW either beg for nerfs there and buffs in PvE or accept the situation as it is. Either other classes are going to have to get buffed to consistently stop thieves from escaping a fight and running away or thieves are going to have to eat a nerf. There is no room to complain there is no room to kitten this is the situation. PvP gripes scale above PvE gripes and thief is on the wrong side.

Long post I know. No I am not QQing, No I am not angry, I just rather call it as it is. My thief (one of my first 80s) atm sits because when I take him into T1 WvW there isn’t much he can do save tag with a zerg or roam and be OP in that application which makes wins feel meaningless. When I take him into PvE I end up feeling like I rather jump on warrior or mesmer. Truth is it is a very OP and Up class but most thieves simply wont admit, refuse to see the perspective from other classes points of view or simply do not want get nerfed. I highlighted what I think is truly important the rest is the outsider perspective.

If you think this is bad, you should have seen ranger forums a few months ago. The developers put up a post asking what should be done about a new pet design and it got flamed by players demanding fixes for the class instead of cosmetic changes to pets.

Stooperdale.3560:

If you think this is bad, you should have seen ranger forums a few months ago. The developers put up a post asking what should be done about a new pet design and it got flamed by players demanding fixes for the class instead of cosmetic changes to pets.

Yeah but was and still is legit. The fact is there are a number of traits here that need to be looked at and fixed. I posted and got like 5 responses because no one cares. For ranger and necro some of those class issues are game breaking but not here apparently. As long as its not QQ about the class no one give a kitten it seems.

thanks for all the constuctive responses, you guys are proving me wrong already. just one observation I had on the mesmer forums: there was a major nerf to confusion and mesmers were upset and complaining for about 3 days…then people started posting new build ideas, and it was like nothing ever happened. I know part of that is just that mesmer as a profession is versatile enough to roll with that sort of nerf easily. meanwhile if stealth gets nerfed that affects like 75% or viable thief builds. I guess I’m also wondering, if there’s a difference between the communities?

one thing I appreciate from reading all these posts is that because the stealth is so controversial, it really sets thief players apart from others, and maybe puts a lot of players on the defensive, especially when people start complaining. anyway thanks for all the comments, and sorry for my own complaining, woke up a bit grumpy this morning….

TheGuy.3568:

Now in PvE non of this matters and here we have one of the squishiest least useful classes to any team. Outside picking up members who fail at dungeon mechanics lest they be in an aoe then the thief cant do kitten. Sustained isn’t all that great and it is out shined by warrior and guardian.

THIS +
best dps:warrior
best support: guardian
best condition:necromancer
best clown: thief

bobross.5034:

One thing I noticed is on the mesmer forums is that 90% of the people are either offering friendly advice, posting build ideas or having civil debates.

Well first of all, this is a thief forum — it’s not a mesmer’s tea party with their pretty big dress and flamboyant huge hats — over here, it’s cutthroat alley. Most of those who play Thief has this attitude and that’s expected, we usually pick a class that some how reflects our own personality. In many cases, out characters are a direct representation of who we are or what we would like to be. A player with the Thief attitude will never roll a mesmer and vice versa. Just a big difference in mind set.

Now about your issues, we do give friendly advice, post builds, videos, ideas and some times debate. But most of the time players here are in agreement in many thing that’s why debates are not often, and if there is a debate, it’s mostly us versus Thieves-wannabes-who-demands-nerf/change-without-knowing-the-profession-first.

There’s really not a lot of room for debate in our profession since all possible builds have already been explored and ranked which ones works and which doesn’t. The only time that there’s a real debate among the Thief community is when the nerf bat hits when one side supports the nerf and the other is against it. But at the end of the day, we’re all still brothers and sisters.

I think assassin-type classes tends to draw in more of the e-thug individuals than other classes. It’s been that way in virtually every MMO I’ve played. While healers, casters, support, and tank classes typically need each other in more of a team-play dynamic, stealth classes have always been the easiest to “solo” on. So those other classes pull in more “team” oriented people, and assassins or stealth classes pull in more of the anti-social e-badasses.

Now that’s not to say everyone in each group fits this, so don’t get your panties in a wad if you’re not an e-thug but enjoy assassin classes.

Ok, going to test this profanity filter because I don’t know this kitten thing frickin’ works.

And now I do. LOL, I honestly thought “kitten” was some new internet lingo that had cropped up. I can’t tell you how annoyed I’ve been with it thinking how ridiculous you people are. LOL, I am such a tool! :P

Blackbird.4382:

I think assassin-type classes tends to draw in more of the e-thug individuals than other classes. It’s been that way in virtually every MMO I’ve played. While healers, casters, support, and tank classes typically need each other in more of a team-play dynamic, stealth classes have always been the easiest to “solo” on. So those other classes pull in more “team” oriented people, and assassins or stealth classes pull in more of the anti-social e-badasses.

Now that’s not to say everyone in each group fits this, so don’t get your panties in a wad if you’re not an e-thug but enjoy assassin classes.

Ok, going to test this profanity filter because I don’t know this kitten thing frickin’ works.

FYI, there are professional thieves like Ocean’s 11 or the US Congress; and there are thugs — there’s a lot of very distinct differences between the two archetypes and thugs are not thieves, they’re bullies.

Typically e-thugs rolls warriors, not thieves. Thieves and Assassins in any MMO requires a brain that e-thugs don’t have.

In short, I totally disagree with your observations.

Imo the problem here is NOT the thief community, we get along just fine and if you search a bit you will find that every question has been answered and help has been given.

The problem is the NON thieves that come here to cry out for nerfs and insulting us for outplaying them. Obviously we will reply in the same manner as we were spoken to.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

FYI, there are professional thieves like Ocean’s 11 or the US Congress; and there are thugs — there’s a lot of very distinct differences between the two archetypes and thugs are not thieves, they’re bullies.

You so silly

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Typically e-thugs rolls warriors, not thieves. Thieves and Assassins in any MMO requires a brain that e-thugs don’t have.

Agreed there are e-thugs in all archetypes, but no class draws ’em in like the assassin classes. Typically highest burst DPS, stealth, solo-ability, low skill level needed to be successful…everything the kiddos are looking for in a class.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

In short, I totally disagree with your observations.

You better recognize!

Volrath.1473:

Imo the problem here is NOT the thief community, we get along just fine and if you search a bit you will find that every question has been answered and help has been given.

The problem is the NON thieves that come here to cry out for nerfs and insulting us for outplaying them. Obviously we will reply in the same manner as we were spoken to.

haha

Volrath.1473:

Imo the problem here is NOT the thief community, we get along just fine and if you search a bit you will find that every question has been answered and help has been given.

The problem is the NON thieves that come here to cry out for nerfs and insulting us for outplaying them. Obviously we will reply in the same manner as we were spoken to.

lol It’s funny how every oped class in every mmo think they are out playing the rest of the player base . Bright Wizard in WAR, Warlocks in WoW, Sorcs in SWtoR the list goes on and on.

Mogar.9216:

Volrath.1473:

Imo the problem here is NOT the thief community, we get along just fine and if you search a bit you will find that every question has been answered and help has been given.

The problem is the NON thieves that come here to cry out for nerfs and insulting us for outplaying them. Obviously we will reply in the same manner as we were spoken to.

lol It’s funny how every oped class in every mmo think they are out playing the rest of the player base . Bright Wizard in WAR, Warlocks in WoW, Sorcs in SWtoR the list goes on and on.

The people who can’t recognize that they play an OP’d class & tell everyone to L2P, are the same people who complain about OP’d classes when they lose. Or to break it down, when they win it’s because of their superior skill, and when they lose, it’s because the other class is OP’d.

Thieves have a bad reputation in PvP due to high burst, so a big portion of the negativity comes from the other professions and not from the Thieves themselves.

The reason is that, simply put, people hate thieves. They also hate D/D eles, bunker guards, and the like, but thieves are the cornerstone profession for players to be able to QQ on. So many of the people who come here spewing random bullkitten like “lol I have 3k hours on my thief and we should be nerfed”, and then comments like “Shadow Refuge is OP” (even though it requires you to stay in a relatively small circle for an extended period of time, and, furthermore, walking outside of the circle or being pushed out automatically Reveals you) just make life a bit miserable over here. Players complain about stealth, and in spite of all of the times I have given advice to these players to help them fight against it, it seems like the waves of thief-haters just keep flinging themselves towards us. It’s really frustrating, and that may be why some of the stuff you see here is a bit kitteny, even though there are some really awesome players here.

Nah, I’m sure he’s referring to how thiefs treat each other on this board. It’s not all bad, but there is a very large contingent of kittens that play the class. If you don’t see it, you might be one of the kittens. /wink

The problem is we have a large amount of trolls on the Thief forum that do not play our class.

The constant “Balancing” has also likely turned many a Thief into a bitter kitten .

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Blackbird.4382:

I think assassin-type classes tends to draw in more of the e-thug individuals than other classes. It’s been that way in virtually every MMO I’ve played. While healers, casters, support, and tank classes typically need each other in more of a team-play dynamic, stealth classes have always been the easiest to “solo” on. So those other classes pull in more “team” oriented people, and assassins or stealth classes pull in more of the anti-social e-badasses.

Now that’s not to say everyone in each group fits this, so don’t get your panties in a wad if you’re not an e-thug but enjoy assassin classes.

Ok, going to test this profanity filter because I don’t know this kitten thing frickin’ works.

FYI, there are professional thieves like Ocean’s 11 or the US Congress; and there are thugs — there’s a lot of very distinct differences between the two archetypes and thugs are not thieves, they’re bullies.

Typically e-thugs rolls warriors, not thieves. Thieves and Assassins in any MMO requires a brain that e-thugs don’t have.

In short, I totally disagree with your observations.

the e-thug reveals himself

Mogar.9216:

Volrath.1473:

Imo the problem here is NOT the thief community, we get along just fine and if you search a bit you will find that every question has been answered and help has been given.

The problem is the NON thieves that come here to cry out for nerfs and insulting us for outplaying them. Obviously we will reply in the same manner as we were spoken to.

lol It’s funny how every oped class in every mmo think they are out playing the rest of the player base . Bright Wizard in WAR, Warlocks in WoW, Sorcs in SWtoR the list goes on and on.

Based on your list, it is completely justified that a CASTER class can be OP’d since they take no risk at all while dealing so much damage casting spells from the back.

Your list is a horrible example.

Thieves takes risk by going into melee and with very little survivability without sacrificing damage. Out playing and out smarting your opponent is the main key for Thieves’ survival.

It’s even more funny how stupid your reply was.

@OP
Mogar.9216’s reply is the kind of reply from NON-THIEVES, is a very good example, that kitten es off a lot of people here in the Thieves forum.

EDIT:
Wow. Another one.

Bacon Please.8407:

the e-thug reveals himself

face palm

Unfortunately it seems that a lot of people play one or two classes, and when a Thief is not one of these classes, the player will be lacking a fundamental understanding of how the Thief mechanics are operated. You can determine the mechanics of most other classes even if you haven’t played them, merely by playing a similar class and through experience.

I first started out on a Warrior before I rolled a Thief and I clearly remember getting my kitten handed to me completely. Looking back, after the experience a Thief has thought me, I realize how ridiculously easy it is for a warrior with a hammer to shut down and kill a power-based thief. All it takes is a little tactic, a little prediction and the correct appliance of CC with proper timing. Of course, if the Thief is using S/D dodging C&D and shutting down FS/LS does wonders. When I run on my warrior now, a Thief is not that scary.

I fundamentally believe that the Thief is not particularly strong in any regard (other than the ridiculous D/P stealth field access), but the required investment to understand the mechanics (and counter them) is not being made by a large portion of players. Instead, those are the people whom decide to pollute this forum because this profession is ‘clearly OP’. This is evident in the fact that most players are still stopping their attacks and walking backward just because the thief goes into stealth. React, predict, act — a Thief goes down easily.

Mogar.9216:

Volrath.1473:

Imo the problem here is NOT the thief community, we get along just fine and if you search a bit you will find that every question has been answered and help has been given.

The problem is the NON thieves that come here to cry out for nerfs and insulting us for outplaying them. Obviously we will reply in the same manner as we were spoken to.

lol It’s funny how every oped class in every mmo think they are out playing the rest of the player base . Bright Wizard in WAR, Warlocks in WoW, Sorcs in SWtoR the list goes on and on.

Maybe they are outplaying everyone. I mean I had a hunter on WoW and I could kick anyone’s kitten 1v1 including warlocks. The reason why I could, though, was because I built my hunter for high single target CC and DPS which countered a majority of the players because they essentially cared more for numbers than survivability and tactics. AoE is nice but if you are hitting 5 people for 7k each and I am hitting 1 for 12k, I might have 1/3 of your DPS but I am killing things faster than you.

It is no different with thieves. They are meant for high single target bursts and thieves will use it to the fullest. Its a play upon strengths with the cost of being a walking marshmallow.

Its all about planning and execution. Planning is part of tactics. Executing those tactics properly is what determines someone’s skill level. A good majority of the time, your own death is due to ineffective planning a/o execution on your part. Copying people, following groups and facerolling will get you killed.

Wiser with Age.3714:

The Thief forums are generally negative because people feel like that have been consistently singled out. Why? A significant part of the general MMO player base has real emotional issues when it comes to encountering stealth mechanics in a PvP situation. These players don’t like dying to a steatlh build, regardless of the MMO. This causes them to loudly complain until they can get the game changed until it’s not longer possible for them to die to stealth tactics.

While my own main character Thief is a non-stealth build for PvE / WvW, it seems like a large majority of the people on these forums are based around stealth builds. With every tweak or nerf to stealth mechanics, a majority of Thief players get hurt. Then when this continues to happen again and again, it starts to make people angry. As if this isn’t bad enough, PvE Thief players also notice that a Warrior’s PvE potential isn’t being nerfed. At this point, Thief players start to get bitter.

At this point, I’ve got x2 Thieves, x2 Warriors, and x2 Engineers. I’ve seen nerfs and buffs across many levels. Some classes have more of a well deserved right to complain, while others don’t understand about just how good they have things. Amongst all of these Thief players seem the most bitter and it’s really easy to figure out why. Anti-stealth players are permanently messing with this class. The same goes for anti-burst players. Until this class gets the promised “mobility” buffs to replace what people are losing, I’d expect a noticably portion of this forum to be an angry and frustrated place.

To a point, I agree. However, the main reason Thief players are so kittened off is this: Every single time there is a patch, ANET introduces another nerf or game mechanic specifically targeted toward the thief player. All the while, all the anti-thief rehetoric that made ANET nerf the thief in the first place continues on, stronger than ever… and in different areas. So, no matter how much ANET nerfs the thief, the non-thief base will never be satisfied… so thief continues to get nerfed and eventually, becomes completely unplayable. Sorry, but thieves are tired of having to rework builds and buy new equipment and weapons every time some non-thief player sneezes OP out their blow-hole. SO yea, we get a bit frustrated and a bit angered.

People hate thieves simply because it’s the class to hate. It’s like Americans who thought communism during the cold war was evil. There’s no real basis supporting it, but thieves seem to be the “flavor” to complain about. I can’t tell you the amount of time I’ve gotten stupid responses in SpVp on a thief. I like to run a p/p(zero stealth minus shadow refuge) zerker in support of allies, and I get tons of crap from people saying thieves are OP with this BS stealth when I never utilized it during that fight.

Meanwhile on my guardian I can easily tank 2-3 people in spvp until allies arrive but I never get crap from anyone. If anything, I get compliments. Apparently guardians take skill and thieves don’t, when in reality, there’s not a big difference. Spam blocks and heals + retal is the same as spamming stealth + backstab + heartseeker

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Well first of all, this is a thief forum — it’s not a mesmer’s tea party with their pretty big dress and flamboyant huge hats — over here, it’s cutthroat alley. Most of those who play Thief has this attitude and that’s expected, we usually pick a class that some how reflects our own personality. In many cases, out characters are a direct representation of who we are or what we would like to be. A player with the Thief attitude will never roll a mesmer and vice versa. Just a big difference in mind set.

Have you seen the hat on the thief Karma gear? Also, I’m pretty sure mesmers just have masks…though I’d love a flamboyant hat on mine. Kidding aside, I think I had a similar line of thinking as you, but I see similarities between thieves and mesmers in terms of focus on misdirection and deception. Both respond to brute force with subtlety, and can accomplish a variety of unexpected things. Those are the class mechanics that appealed to me, and it’s why I play both in similar amounts. Both require thought to build/play and both offer a lot of combat and utility options, making for varied and interesting play. So in my case, the things that drew me to one, drew me to the other.

I guess what I was trying to get at is maybe there are some players out here who got into thief because they’re careful planners, some who like it because they’re thoughtful tricksters, and others because they’re thrill seekers, in search of the ultimate glass cannon. I’m sure all of those people bring value to the forums too, in terms of quirky builds, or the ultimate dps configuration…And then there’s the e-thugs. who can’t seem to leave e-thug-life in the game.

And yes, my main complaint was not against qqers or responses to that… that’s the same on any class forum, and probably worse in this one (because of more qq). My complaint was about thief players giving others a hard time when they are just trying to share something or ask for advice in a forum specifically designed for those things.

TheGuy.3568:

Lets be honest here and cut all the BS. If you look at mmo history classes with stealth get singled out. To my knowledge this is the most active combat stealth any class has ever gotten in one game. If you add that in with the number of evasive builds and the fact that thief movement is above each and every other class.

You end up with this situation. Not only can this class actively disengage from combat but it can also run away where only 2 classes have the possibility of catching up. If I chose to run likely I will get caught because you cant out run the thief. Your only option to win and likely y burst but thieves have one of the strongest burst builds and if I don’t avoid them while they are stealth I will get hit with it.

You tell this to a new player wtf are they supposed to do? If you actively search for the thief while stealth he may burst you the only way to know your hitting him is is you have an attack chain attack handy. The most popular stun breaker has 1200 range 2 ways on the most mobile class you wont catch up. If you run you’ll die vs most builds. Your only option to winning in an equal fight is going to water or simply out playing the thief. And then you have blind and perma stealth. Not even getting into heart seeker.

Now in PvE non of this matters and here we have one of the squishiest least useful classes to any team. Outside picking up members who fail at dungeon mechanics lest they be in an aoe then the thief cant do kitten. Sustained isn’t all that great and it is out shined by warrior and guardian.

To most players this is simply too much to handle solo. And in many cases too much to handle 1vx. Mesmer on the other had has weak access to stealth and not that much chase ie you could run.

Without out all QQ my warrior will usually beat a thief 1v1 as long as they aren’t PD (just run in that case). That being said the class is OP in WvW. Its UP in PvE and nigh useless in Tpvp but dominant in Spvp pick up/random.

To sum this all up any class with stealth is OP because stealth is inherently OP but the obscene amount of stealth thief gets is really too much. However, Anet saw fit to place all the good traits and burst (banging fist on table) inherently tied to stealth. Leaving the thief with nearly no option beside 2-3 under powered builds outside of stealth.

As of this moment this class has top mobility, top escape, top burst (100 nades used to beat it), most evades, combat stealth, and the capability to spam powerful skills. It also has a bad ranged weapon no true build diversity a bad reputation and no true place outside WvW.

To other thieves understand this if you are top in WvW either beg for nerfs there and buffs in PvE or accept the situation as it is. Either other classes are going to have to get buffed to consistently stop thieves from escaping a fight and running away or thieves are going to have to eat a nerf. There is no room to complain there is no room to kitten this is the situation. PvP gripes scale above PvE gripes and thief is on the wrong side.

Long post I know. No I am not QQing, No I am not angry, I just rather call it as it is. My thief (one of my first 80s) atm sits because when I take him into T1 WvW there isn’t much he can do save tag with a zerg or roam and be OP in that application which makes wins feel meaningless. When I take him into PvE I end up feeling like I rather jump on warrior or mesmer. Truth is it is a very OP and Up class but most thieves simply wont admit, refuse to see the perspective from other classes points of view or simply do not want get nerfed. I highlighted what I think is truly important the rest is the outsider perspective.

This is the truth.

bobross.5034:

… On the thief forums I see something else entirely. I think it’s closer to 50% of people interested in sharing ideas and pushing the game forward, and the other 50% trying to shut them down. I get the feeling that while I gravitated to the thief because of the unique playstyle, others just did it because they like kitten ing people off.

It’s because of all the non-thieves that come here whining about how they can’t play against thieves and demand everything about the thief needs nerfed. That’s why.

Even this thread is used as an excuse to complain. Wait, those posts are off topic aren’t they?

http://i.imgur.com/qldn1pV.jpg

When you constantly get harassed for whatever nonsensical reason simply because you play one class (notice that i have two ways to stealth: bp + clusterbomb and sr that i pretty much only use for rez), it’s not really hard to understand why some players using it starts to be a little more aggressive.

You can litteraly try anything with this class, you’ll get harassed at one point, i’m sure i could have someone rage by stomping him using traps while only using sword main hand (no off hand) at this point, that’s just how bad it is.

Edit: forgot to hide the names calling targets, i failed.

Deathspike.1870:

This is evident in the fact that most players are still stopping their attacks and walking backward just because the thief goes into stealth.

At least in your example they walk backwards. I have a lot of targets just stop moving at all. Or even worse, walk forward (without dodging) and revealing their back to me even more clearly …

@OP
Mogar.9216’s reply is the kind of reply from NON-THIEVES, is a very good example, that kitten es off a lot of people here in the Thieves forum.

>>>>>>>>>>
lol I have a fully geared 80 thief as well as fully geared 80 mesmer. I enjoy both classes and I have no problem with either in wvw. But at the same time I also realize that both classes are extremely overpowered, I beat 90% of the people because how oped stealth is. You sir just have your head in the sand thinking you are wining purely because of skill. BTW my third toon is an Ele, they are oped too but not as much as thieves and mesmers.

TheGuy.3568:

*Lets be honest here and cut all the BS. If you look at mmo history classes with stealth get singled out. To my knowledge this is the most active combat stealth any class has ever gotten in one game. If you add that in with the number of evasive builds and the fact that thief movement is above each and every other class

A bit off the topic, but its not the most. Try playing PWE’s Perfect World. Their Assassin class has the most active and broken stealth mechanic I have ever seen. The one here is pretty tame compared to it, so much that I was relieved to see how this one worked VS theirs.
It is inherently true that if you browse most MMO forums, the Assassin/Thief class with a stealth ability has a lot of negativity throughout it. Best thing to do is just ignore it. If someone has constructive posts about such things, I’ll read them. As soon as they turn into rage/qq I’ll skip to the next post. Replying only feeds the trolls and makes it worse.

I’d say I did notice a lot of non-thief players posting on this forum, this generated much hoo ha. Otherwise forum comments seem fine. Thieves have alot of playability and are slippery, as per description, they frustrate some players with their seeming deadliness. I have encountered players from every class who have posed problems and challenges, however that is actually in the minority rather than majority and otherwise (in sPvP) most of the time things run smooth and fun, although it did take some time to learn how to do this. Alot of negative threads seemed to generate from QQ and nerf type debates. I wouldn’t argue with any of the nerfs that have occurred, thief is fine.

One should ponder that the original stealth mechanic of the rogue classes was ment to be done outside of combat only and the backstab as an initiating strike .
Then came most mmo’s and turned stealth/backstabing to a spamming rotation on most mmos.

It’s not a gw2 thingy, it’s the mainsteam abomination the rogues have turned into and the playerbase they appeal to.

All straight opinion.

People will complain about any kind of stealth mechanic in any game. The thief/rogue/assassin archetype was/is/and always will be, the most hated because it strives on surprise attacks and capitalizes highly on mistakes made. New/Bad players don’t know how to or don’t want to deal with this kind of gameplay. Look at WoW (rogue) League (shaco – nerfed) Dota (riki – most complained about by new players) etc. and they don’t want to deal with it here. Anyone saying oh, GW2 ruins it by giving thieves on demand stealth, is just trying to justify thief hate. Thief classes were hated long before and will be long after. In addition every class in this MMO is more mobile and dynamic, not just thieves. Sorry to burst anyone’s bubble, but any MMO wanting to succeed needs this faster game play style and more active combakittens just the evolution of the genre. Stop with the nostalgia over past games, and deal with it. If anything I’d love to see warriors and a few other classes buffed in mobility to create a higher skill-cap.

Yes some things ‘could’ be toned down like perma-stealth, but the same people wanting those nerfs fail to acknowledge that thieves’ stats should be buffed to compensate. This is where a lot of hate comes from. Mindless nerfs from players who play other classes (I’ve mostly seen rangers and mesmers getting angry and PvE players who jump in WvW and expect to run happily with a zerg or get map comp) with no constructive buffs in return. Currently thieves need the stealth to offset their bad stats. In the end, players that only use other classes and post about nerfs just want thieves to be free kills for them. Sorry, but A-net won’t get rid of a class mechanic that basically makes a thief, a thief, and not a skinny warrior.

Basically there will always be haters and you shouldn’t care less. I like to play classes that generally excel at mobility, single target damage, and fast fluid game play. Thief has all of these traits, and I’ll continue to use or as lamers think, ‘abuse’ the thief class when in reality I’m competing and playing within the boundaries of the current game and patch.

So in short:
Thief:
high level Dungeons/PvE – worthless
high level PvP – very below average
WvW – Gods of roaming (why all the people whine)

Now just imagine if thieves actually excelled in all these categories like guardians and a lesser extent ele’s currently do. It would be a kittenfest.

The majority of negative posts that are extremely vocal are by those that think they are the champion for that forum or that class.

Of the classes I played so far..

Mesmer forums – pretty friendly I can’t deny that.

Warrior forums – usually can’t seem to wrap their heads around you don’t have to be all the max damage stats to still do alot of damage. A trait can’t be put into tactics because nobody goes into tactics. All important traits have to be in strength, arms, or only 20 pts in discipline, defense is ok but don’t make it 30 pts. I still can’t figure out warriors mentality yet.

Thief – Everyone seems ok imo its just that most people that play thief know its not as hot as people make it out to be. sPvP hotjoins don’t count, High level tPvP play then I will listen. 1v1 discussion is interesting but the water it holds isn’t very much and shouldn’t have alot of stock put into it. Really after you actually played a thief as in pushed it as far as you can take it then when you play another class you should not have a problem killing a thief especially a bad thief.

Elementalist forums – kind of slow actually most discussion revolves around 0/10/0/ at least 20 water/ 30 arcana. Basically 1 build and most of it has been figured out.