Guild Wars 2

Few days ago ive been doing some duels in the obsidian sanctum of wvw. Suddenly there was this thief, asking me to 1v1 him. We did some duels and ive rarely lost that many times in a row to one guy. Allthough i learned how he played and was finaly able to beat him.
Now im wondering what build he was using. It was (in my opinion) a very sustained build for a thief, because ive never fought a thief for 4 Minutes without one of us dying :O
I never really played thief and this build was looking very interesting.
Is this a common pvp Build just played very good, or is this a rare build noone’s really using?
I cant really describe how he fought, because i know almost no thief skills by name and effect, but ive recorded the last fight.

Id be glad if someone could tell me what that was, i need to try this by myself

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbKiV4Ojems

Thank you for helping me,
Mortva

Hey, Thats my guildie!
I am not 100% sure on his build but I run something very similar.
It should be something along the lines of : http://tinyurl.com/p3pd33c

It isn’t a very common build to see, but I think its going to get more popular in wvw cause they are nerfing all the other builds and this one is really strong. Also, he is indeed very good, plays it better than most. :P

lets just say it is a condition build and they have more survival. last a lot longer than a full zerk build.

Looks to me like the common P/D trolling build.. High stealth and conditions if you actually stick around to fight him.

I’m…. not sure I see anything special here?

Ofc he survived well, he was never in range for you to spam bombs on and you didn’t have cc. He had the trait that removes condi while stealthed too. Ranged + condi removal is pretty good vs engi -_-

Edit2: kitten of course its p/d not p/p, his bleeds were pretty weak though, and he wasn’t spamming 3, so not sure must be using defensive stats

That’s a P/D condition build. That’s the only reason the fight took that long. If you are fighting against an S/D build, you’ll regret having so many buffs on you. lol

Thats basic p/d condi build that is here … forever. Was working like a charm back in day when ppl didnt slot so many condition cleansers. Now … not so much … Some builds are simply impossible to bleed out.

Thieves Guild is such a cheap elite for duels. =/

kind of a crappy p/d bleed build. :P reason u lasted so long….u dont get bleeds under 25% hp. if ud idnt have that it would have been a 30 sec fight prolly.

Dahkeus.8243:

Thieves Guild is such a cheap elite for duels. =/

nonsense.

seriously. they dont do much dmg. scorp wire+blind is only reaosn theya re good.

besides. as cool as they actually are…..mesmer phants/clones are actually much more deadly. but those are allowed. and they actually attack while ur invis. not thieves guild….. oh well.

guess that kinda blows the OP ness/cheapness out of the water.

also what else should a thief use?

daggerstorm? elite that is for range only or zerg? nobody uses range only in duels.

basi venom? the single worst stun in game?

or thieves guild? 2 thieves for 20 secs with 1 utility each. Black powder shot + scorp

i think its pretty obvious. canthate on the skill. if u ahte on that skill do u hate on ambush trap? technically AT is 4x stronger. AT gives 6 per 180 secs, while TG gives 2 per 180 secs. whatevs tho. :P theheck with math

What I’m wondering is that the thief didn’t switch to shortbow while in stealth and bombard the area with with Chocking Gas. The poison would have reduced the healing efficiency of the Engi plus the poison damage.

I would bet, that Thief is one of those who spec condition duration over condition damage.

Thieves Guild is a cheesy passive I WIN button. Sure, it’s not massively OP, but it’s very strong in 1 v 1 scenarios and requires no thought to use.

Daggerstorm is strong for reflecting projectiles. Yishis has some videos showing this using intelligently in duals vs some classes (like engineers).

Basilisk Venom as the single worst stun in the game? Not sure where you get that. The short cooldown makes this awesome for anyone using Lyssa runes, but even without, it’s a solid stun that can get a kill when you use it at the right time. There’s a reason this is pretty much the only elite used by high end tPvPers.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

What I’m wondering is that the thief didn’t switch to shortbow while in stealth and bombard the area with with Chocking Gas. The poison would have reduced the healing efficiency of the Engi plus the poison damage.

I would bet, that Thief is one of those who spec condition duration over condition damage.

It is possible he is using his weapons similar to how I do on my thief.

I do not take a Shortbow at all I just use a Pistol in slot one and a Dagger in slot two and use the Pistol with a Sigil of doom for maximum poison uptime (Poison on steal) without having to waste initiative to help battle Warriors and Guardians.

ChapDev.7650:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

What I’m wondering is that the thief didn’t switch to shortbow while in stealth and bombard the area with with Chocking Gas. The poison would have reduced the healing efficiency of the Engi plus the poison damage.

I would bet, that Thief is one of those who spec condition duration over condition damage.

It is possible he is using his weapons similar to how I do on my thief.

I do not take a Shortbow at all I just use a Pistol in slot one and a Dagger in slot two and use the Pistol with a Sigil of doom for maximum poison uptime (Poison on steal) without having to waste initiative to help battle Warriors and Guardians.

I wouldn’t be surprised since the short bow doesn’t shine nearly as well in a 1 v 1 scenario as it does in a team fight.

I’m a little surpised that human thieves don’t use Avatar of Melandru for certain circumstances. It’s very circumstantial, but does work nicely at times.

Need to get into a Shadow Refuge, and there’s someone there to knock you out? Drop the refuge, enter it, and as you do, pop Avatar. Instant stability. You can cancel the avatar at any time.

Have a 2 on 1 or more? Do the same thing, and upon entering, drop the entangle ability. It works like the ranger elite and won’t reveal you. After you’re done using it, either pop the heal spring or cancel the avatar, and proceed from there. (so many people don’t think to try to destroy the entangling vines)

Dahkeus.8243:

Thieves Guild is a cheesy passive I WIN button. Sure, it’s not massively OP, but it’s very strong in 1 v 1 scenarios and requires no thought to use.

Daggerstorm is strong for reflecting projectiles. Yishis has some videos showing this using intelligently in duals vs some classes (like engineers).

Basilisk Venom as the single worst stun in the game? Not sure where you get that. The short cooldown makes this awesome for anyone using Lyssa runes, but even without, it’s a solid stun that can get a kill when you use it at the right time. There’s a reason this is pretty much the only elite used by high end tPvPers.

yes single worst stun in game. perhaps you read it wrong? maybeu thought i said single worst elite in game? lyssa runes are horrid too. its good for a block (aegis) but the 5 secs of boons gives u a few HP and a couple hundred dmg at best. nothing huge and in thelong run u lost alot more for taking the runes rather than a better set that gives throughout every hit etc in a battle. scholar runes will out produce lyssa in just the first hit alone. case in point. i suppose if ur running dubloons and LOTS of +boon time i would value your point. but by itself lyssa runes are bad. and basilisk venom is the worststun in game. many good thieves went over this . check out “BASILISK VENOM RANK” thread and ull see dozens others agree. i also made a list of EVERY other stun in game and shows how basilisk is the worst.

find me a stun thats:

1) longer than 45 sec cooldown
2) longer than 1 sec cast time
3) shorter than 1 sec combined with 1 and/or 2 listed above
4) Another elite stun as bad that takes up elite spot.
5) Gives opponents a several second telegraph saying im goin 2 stun you (buff bar)

good luck. prolly new to thief but no biggie.

Thieves guild, by the way, is not OP. heres some facts to keep it in perspect. and these just cant be argued.

1) phantasms are stronger
2) clones are stronger
3) thieves dont do much damage
4) TG true power lies in black powder shot (free 6 init) and scorp wire (1 free CC)
5) same HP as phants/summons. basically 2 hit kills with a normal mix build. 3 max.
6)running FULL ZERK the P/P user hits for 111hp each pistol attack so 888 total.
the d/d user hits for 550ish each hit.
7)unlike phants/clones they will NOT attack while invis. comes as a weakness.

for 180secs its quite fair. daggerstorm is a 1 trick pony (use in zergs). basilisk venom? worst stun in game. hands down. thieves guild? makes sense.

if u disagree thats fine. come with some facts. compare it. show me some stats. something. dont just say. bah BAH….BAHHHHHHHM. im right ur wrong naananaboo boo. differing opinions is ok…even healthy. but constructive ones with some meat to the comment is what we need to really discuss something.

Fade.7658:

I’m a little surpised that human thieves don’t use Avatar of Melandru for certain circumstances. It’s very circumstantial, but does work nicely at times.

Need to get into a Shadow Refuge, and there’s someone there to knock you out? Drop the refuge, enter it, and as you do, pop Avatar. Instant stability. You can cancel the avatar at any time.

Have a 2 on 1 or more? Do the same thing, and upon entering, drop the entangle ability. It works like the ranger elite and won’t reveal you. After you’re done using it, either pop the heal spring or cancel the avatar, and proceed from there. (so many people don’t think to try to destroy the entangling vines)

daggerstorm does the same thing for 100% less cooldown :P. srry but no.

Travlane.5948:

Fade.7658:

I’m a little surpised that human thieves don’t use Avatar of Melandru for certain circumstances. It’s very circumstantial, but does work nicely at times.

Need to get into a Shadow Refuge, and there’s someone there to knock you out? Drop the refuge, enter it, and as you do, pop Avatar. Instant stability. You can cancel the avatar at any time.

Have a 2 on 1 or more? Do the same thing, and upon entering, drop the entangle ability. It works like the ranger elite and won’t reveal you. After you’re done using it, either pop the heal spring or cancel the avatar, and proceed from there. (so many people don’t think to try to destroy the entangling vines)

daggerstorm does the same thing for 100% less cooldown :P. srry but no.

I don’t use it too much, but it’s nice for CC in zerg situations.

@ Travalene, lyssa runes with basilisk venom is great not because it gives all boons with a relative short cooldown, it’s the fact that lyssa runes remove all conditions on you when casted. Lyssa runes also gives you 3 seconds of stability, which compounded with SR, makes CC a useless counter for SR.

For a P/D condi build though, thieves guild is probably the go-to elite skill since it does CC and deals damage while you can remain in stealth. Too bad P/D condi builds often rely solely on P/D without ever weapon switching, it gets unpredictable if they were running D/P too.

Undodgeable unstability-able un-aegisable stun on a class that can burst in under 1 second seems fine to me idk what to tell you trav.

I think thieves guild is only strong with venoms, otherwise the cooldown is not justified

^ Who has one of those? Aegis, evade etc can eat a Basilisk application.

Interceptor.2653:

^ Who has one of those? Aegis, evade etc can eat a Basilisk application.

That’s what my thief has idk what you a playing

It is dodgeable. Idk if it actually goes through aegis, I don’t think it does.

Tachii.3506:

@ Travalene, lyssa runes with basilisk venom is great not because it gives all boons with a relative short cooldown, it’s the fact that lyssa runes remove all conditions on you when casted. Lyssa runes also gives you 3 seconds of stability, which compounded with SR, makes CC a useless counter for SR.

For a P/D condi build though, thieves guild is probably the go-to elite skill since it does CC and deals damage while you can remain in stealth. Too bad P/D condi builds often rely solely on P/D without ever weapon switching, it gets unpredictable if they were running D/P too.

yes. that IS nice. but thats ALL that really changes from lyssa runes. the boons are useless really. you get a one time cleanse. but in the long term of a fight/battle i can show that otherrunes give more productivity. perhaps not condi cleans but more dmg or more dmg reduction or utitlity etc.

Remus.7312:

Hey, Thats my guildie!
I am not 100% sure on his build but I run something very similar.
It should be something along the lines of : http://tinyurl.com/p3pd33c

It isn’t a very common build to see, but I think its going to get more popular in wvw cause they are nerfing all the other builds and this one is really strong. Also, he is indeed very good, plays it better than most. :P

It’s pretty much a lost cause to run full defensive traits and a rune set/sigils that focus only on one condition, especially one that is so easily cleansed.

Your friend was running mug more than likely so thats already a little different than the build posted.

Also, I dont mean to be rude, but his gameplay was pretty weak and predictable. There are also much stronger p/d thief setups than what he was using. Setups that would have made that duel (and every other) much easier despite mediocre game play.

Tachii.3506:

It is dodgeable. Idk if it actually goes through aegis, I don’t think it does.

Lol my point was that he is comparing it to other skills and not looking at it in a thief contentext.

I use mug and bountiful theft. Bountiful theft ALWAYS strips stability/aegis first, so they do not matter. Mug will proc venom and it is instant cast, so I simply only use it when they are not dodging, ie. instant cast skills cannot be dodged either.

Bas venom is plenty good enough already

Mordecai.6318:

Remus.7312:

Hey, Thats my guildie!
I am not 100% sure on his build but I run something very similar.
It should be something along the lines of : http://tinyurl.com/p3pd33c

It isn’t a very common build to see, but I think its going to get more popular in wvw cause they are nerfing all the other builds and this one is really strong. Also, he is indeed very good, plays it better than most. :P

It’s pretty much a lost cause to run full defensive traits and a rune set/sigils that focus only on one condition, especially one that is so easily cleansed.

Your friend was running mug more than likely so thats already a little different than the build posted.

Also, I dont mean to be rude, but his gameplay was pretty weak and predictable. There are also much stronger p/d thief setups that what he was using. Setups that would have made that duel (and every other) much easier despite mediocre game play.

yeah. hes right. i only saw Bleed almost the entire match if not the entire match. no chanceof winning against great players like that. atleast when TG is down.

Tachii.3506:

It is dodgeable. Idk if it actually goes through aegis, I don’t think it does.

It doesn’t. We do have some unblockable skills/utilities, but venoms ain’t one of them. Aegis, evade, block, blind, etc will all stuff those things.

EDIT: this is an advantage for Residual Venoms with Basilisk, if anyone was curious. Helps a lot when there’s a Guardian around.

Travlane.5948:

yes. that IS nice. but thats ALL that really changes from lyssa runes. the boons are useless really. you get a one time cleanse. but in the long term of a fight/battle i can show that otherrunes give more productivity. perhaps not condi cleans but more dmg or more dmg reduction or utitlity etc.

I’ve got bad news: both of you are wrong.

The guy you’re replying to is wrong, because the boons on Lyssa #6 last for 5 seconds, not 3 seconds. They are also subject to boon duration modifiers, which means a 30 Acrobatics Thief has 6.5 seconds on all buffs. That’s plenty of time to make something happen or turn a fight around.

And you are wrong, because Lyssa #4 (random boon on Heal) is quite excellent. The boon lasts for 10s at base (and again, for Acrobatics Thieves, up to 13s), and only one boon (Swiftness) is kinda lame. Pair Lyssa along Withdraw, and you are cooking with fire. Protection is especially hilarious when you get it.

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Remus.7312:

Hey, Thats my guildie!
I am not 100% sure on his build but I run something very similar.
It should be something along the lines of : http://tinyurl.com/p3pd33c

It isn’t a very common build to see, but I think its going to get more popular in wvw cause they are nerfing all the other builds and this one is really strong. Also, he is indeed very good, plays it better than most. :P

It’s pretty much a lost cause to run full defensive traits and a rune set/sigils that focus only on one condition, especially one that is so easily cleansed.

Your friend was running mug more than likely so thats already a little different than the build posted.

Also, I dont mean to be rude, but his gameplay was pretty weak and predictable. There are also much stronger p/d thief setups that what he was using. Setups that would have made that duel (and every other) much easier despite mediocre game play.

yeah. hes right. i only saw Bleed almost the entire match if not the entire match. no chanceof winning against great players like that. atleast when TG is down.

Did we just agree on something? O.o

Interceptor.2653:

Travlane.5948:

yes. that IS nice. but thats ALL that really changes from lyssa runes. the boons are useless really. you get a one time cleanse. but in the long term of a fight/battle i can show that otherrunes give more productivity. perhaps not condi cleans but more dmg or more dmg reduction or utitlity etc.

I’ve got bad news: both of you are wrong.

The guy you’re replying to is wrong, because the boons on Lyssa #6 last for 5 seconds, not 3 seconds. They are also subject to boon duration modifiers, which means a 30 Acrobatics Thief has 6.5 seconds on all buffs. That’s plenty of time to make something happen or turn a fight around.

And you are wrong, because Lyssa #4 (random boon on Heal) is quite excellent. The boon lasts for 10s at base (and again, for Acrobatics Thieves, up to 13s), and only one boon (Swiftness) is kinda lame. Pair Lyssa along Withdraw, and you are cooking with fire. Protection is especially hilarious when you get it.

im talking about ruen #6. its not worth taking a full runeset for. usually #6 is what decides a runesets worth. #3 is a nice lil bonus/balancer to give more utility. there are numerous other runes that give much better productivity over all. lyssa is quite low. u dont get anything from 5 secs of boons other than perhaps aegis used and 1 or 2 attacks EVERY SO SLIGHTLY boosted dmg. the only thing you can really add up is the -conditions cleansed. its nice and helps….but its a standard and stactic effect which means it doesnt help u throughout the fight…just once or perhaps twice by clearing conditions. which is nothign to sneer at….but its still not good enough to say “ok my lyssa runes are my condi cleanse so i dont need to bring any condi cleanse”. actually even with lyssa runes u need to bring the same amount of condi cleanse you always do.

@ interceptor: Uh. I only said stability last for 3 seconds, which is what lyssa runes does. All the other boons are at 5 seconds.

And uh yeah, you should be bringing other condition cleanses too. I’m not arguing for that either. The only other runes you suggested was Scholar runes, and not everyone want to play the zerk backstab thief either. Arguing for lyssa runes is “horrid” for thief when we have Evade and Basilisk venom, I’m just not seeing your points. Thieves are one of the least classes with condition cleanses, so I’m happy of getting as much of it as possible. If you want to engage in a more fruitful discussion, don’t completely dismiss other people’s points or put words in their mouth.

gengaluf.1729:

Allthough i learned how he played and was finaly able to beat him.

Omg, what is this, I don’t even… Did I read it right? Are these kind of things really happening? People learning to play against another class? It’s hilarious, I don’t beleive it!

Tachii.3506:

@ interceptor: Uh. I only said stability last for 3 seconds, which is what lyssa runes does. All the other boons are at 5 seconds.

No, that’s not what it does. Lyssa #6 gives 5 seconds of all boons, including Stability, and all are impacted by boon duration as appropriate. The only weird interaction that Lyssa’s has with Stability, is that the #4 bonus boon can’t give it.

Nvm. I was thinking of Consume Plasma, lol. My bad.

Wouldn’t be the first time the wiki was wrong; I had to fix a healing ratio the other day that was off by a factor of seven. Place needs some QC.

kitten , I confused it with Consume Plasma. Wiki is actually right about lyssa runes. QQ.

(… kitten ..) is censored… :|

Travlane.5948:

im talking about ruen #6. its not worth taking a full runeset for.

You made your point poorly, then.

What other two runes are you combining with Lyssa?

u dont get anything from 5 secs of boons other than perhaps aegis used and 1 or 2 attacks EVERY SO SLIGHTLY boosted dmg.

This is total nonsense. You get Aegis, Might, Swiftness, Protection, Stability, Regen, Fury, Retaliation and Vigor. Only two of those boons have “meh” utility; everything else is doing useful work. It’s even better if you have boon duration, and get 6.5 seconds out of it.

actually even with lyssa runes u need to bring the same amount of condi cleanse you always do.

Almost the same amount. The thing with Lyssa is that it gives you an immediate “get out of condition spam” moment, which isn’t available with anything else in our kit. Like, it’s unique utility. Shadowstep is the only thing that comes close, but it has a longer effective CD and only does three conditions.

Strayhand.8216:

gengaluf.1729:

Allthough i learned how he played and was finaly able to beat him.

Omg, what is this, I don’t even… Did I read it right? Are these kind of things really happening? People learning to play against another class? It’s hilarious, I don’t beleive it!

I dont see your problem dude. I only did a few 1v1 vs him, and he played different than the most thiefes i saw. And thats why i had to learn how he plays, to counter him. I really dont see the point of makeing fun of this :O
Your post is not
a) funny
b) helpfull
c) interesting
Please do only comment if your comment one of those things above, thanks.

gengaluf.1729:

Strayhand.8216:

gengaluf.1729:

Allthough i learned how he played and was finaly able to beat him.

Omg, what is this, I don’t even… Did I read it right? Are these kind of things really happening? People learning to play against another class? It’s hilarious, I don’t beleive it!

I dont see your problem dude. I only did a few 1v1 vs him, and he played different than the most thiefes i saw. And thats why i had to learn how he plays, to counter him. I really dont see the point of makeing fun of this :O
Your post is not
a) funny
b) helpfull
c) interesting
Please do only comment if your comment one of those things above, thanks.

Hes not making fun of you, hes being sarcastic about how everyone cries for nerfs instead of looking for counter play. It actually an indirect compliment