Guild Wars 2

We have pitiful HP
We have the worst condition cleansing in the game (aka, not really any)
We only have medium armour to go with the tiny HP pool
We have no hard crowd control effects (such as knockback etc)

What does that leave us with?
Damage.

Remove damage what does that leave us with?
The worst class in the game.

You can’t just go around nerfing the only thing a class has going for it without compensation of some form. GRGRGRGRGRRRRR.

Could be worse… we could be Eles.

And yeah I more or less agree with this.
Poisons need to be either fixed or reworked. (Usage on block and extreme lack luster effects).
Loltraps.

I’d complain about our underwater elite but everyone is on equal grounds for that…

If you have to nerf us at-least take the GW1 path and create PVP skill power /PVE skill power. I’m sick of getting screwed over in PVE because thieves made a few kids in PVP cry.

BearAE.1042:

Could be worse… we could be Eles.

Considered overpowered and abused in tPvP? You’re right. I’d hate to be on the list of nerfs for bunker builds.

Elementalists aren’t underpowered. People just try to use builds with them that aren’t good in 1v1 scenarios, like the staff and its long cast times. Then they come on the forums and complain that a thief killed them.

BearAE.1042:

Could be worse… we could be Eles.

They have cough 1200 range cough

People are focused on 1v1 balance in wvw when clearly that’s not the point.

We have same hp as ele’s and guardians.
We have condition removals built in weapon skills as well as heal/utilities.
We have more armor than ele’s and other cloth classes.
We have lots of stuns, roots and other forms of cc depending on weapon sets and utilities.
We have out of this world damage.

Ele’s only viable build is bunker build. It has pitiful dmg. Any other build means you die instantly to anyone that is focusing you.
1200 range is on staff ele only. If staff ele kills you… quit gw2. Its not a game for you.

Well this post is basically completely inaccurate.

I currently run with 1995 power 17-18k health 1450 toughness 56% crit 84% crit damage. I have condition removal in my build.

I can stand in the middle of a supply camp and just aoe down the guards solo.

the thief is more than a backstab build. people need to look further than there nose.

EDIT: edited to base crit 56% from 71% that included fury as this is normally permanently up.

I’m at level 55 right now and having 20 in Shadow Arts has helped me survive quite well. And I am one of those nonkiters cause that makes me kitten dizzy. I only kite if I have to and I use p/p and sb. So I guess that makes me a rare bird lol

Kyus.3812:

Well this post is basically completely inaccurate.

I currently run with 1995 power 17-18k health 1450 toughness 71% crit 84% crit damage. I have condition removal in my build.

I can stand in the middle of a supply camp and just aoe down the guards solo.

the thief is more than a backstab build. people need to look further than there nose.

So you’ve invested VERY heavily into vitality and have low toughness still. Congratulations. You’re seriously arguing our health pool is good? As for the guardian/ele comment, both those classes have invulnerability available, much more boon access, far easier stability, ele’s arguable with DD more maneuverability and far more hard CC on both classes.

We do have bad HP. And the whole way our class is designed as far as direct damage builds go, is for burst. Initiative in the long run will see you dead vs an equal skilled opponent.

As for the CC which you talk, I refer to hard CC. Knock backs, stuns etc. We have immbolise (one on the sword), 2 venoms on of which is an elite that is not as strong a CC as other classes have on a weapon skill, and a daze that can be considered good. The rest is mediocre. We really don’t have hard CC, and I believe us to be the only class that doesn’t have it.

I know my class, but honestly you cannot take away a large chunk of damage and not give something back. The way it is going is thieves will be pushed into condition builds like the necro, and then be of little help in dungeons etc due to bleed stack limits and such.

Anyone ever wonder why in top lvl tpvp people kinda… don’t use thieves? But use ele’s and engi’s etc.

Katsumoto.9452:

Kyus.3812:

Well this post is basically completely inaccurate.

I currently run with 1995 power 17-18k health 1450 toughness 71% crit 84% crit damage. I have condition removal in my build.

I can stand in the middle of a supply camp and just aoe down the guards solo.

the thief is more than a backstab build. people need to look further than there nose.

So you’ve invested VERY heavily into vitality and have low toughness still. Congratulations. You’re seriously arguing our health pool is good? As for the guardian/ele comment, both those classes have invulnerability available, much more boon access, far easier stability, ele’s arguable with DD more maneuverability and far more hard CC on both classes.

We do have bad HP. And the whole way our class is designed as far as direct damage builds go, is for burst. Initiative in the long run will see you dead vs an equal skilled opponent.

As for the CC which you talk, I refer to hard CC. Knock backs, stuns etc. We have immbolise (one on the sword), 2 venoms on of which is an elite that is not as strong a CC as other classes have on a weapon skill, and a daze that can be considered good. The rest is mediocre. We really don’t have hard CC, and I believe us to be the only class that doesn’t have it.

I know my class, but honestly you cannot take away a large chunk of damage and not give something back. The way it is going is thieves will be pushed into condition builds like the necro, and then be of little help in dungeons etc due to bleed stack limits and such.

Anyone ever wonder why in top lvl tpvp people kinda… don’t use thieves? But use ele’s and engi’s etc.

I guess you are more coming at this from sPvP , I am coming from a purely wvw perspective

now there has to be a trade off. the fact is I have nice vitality I have some toughness not flat baseline toughness. the power is still good I can build up a nice crit rating and maintain a good crit damage. There is no getting away from our small health pool, but the sheer ammount of surviability we can get out of utilities and weapon skills is incomparable with other classes.

The thief is strong, it is difficult to kill, and it has more dimensions than mug cnd back stab heartseeker ….

what is wrong with it are the redundant areas. S/D P/P would be my first point, the next would be traps. These are priority one area’s for buffs and reworks. But with buffs some of our other areas need adjusting. certain elements of the backstab build need to be adjusted, not altered in less damage but adjusted to make the ability to stack various abilities into a very rapid 4 skill hit spread out over a longer period to allow reactive dodging.

My only point is, we have surviability a lot of it, you can do damage and gain survivability. it doesn’t have to be glass cannon or bust.

We have pretty good mobility as well. Once all the nerfs are done we will still be the best class in the game at running away. Unfortunately it’s hard to win battles by running away really well.

Gear up as a glass cannon, die as one.
Guardian and ele might have short duration invulnerability on long cd but thief has spamable invisibility. Well played thief is just as manuverable as an ele. d/d thief is limited in manuverability but sure makes up for it in extreme burst and survivability. Thief only dies if he screwes up.
s/p build has spamable root and stun beside poisons. Ele’s cc is on LONG cooldowns.
Thieves dmg is over the top vs cloth. 8k bs crits are 50% of many classes total hp. And thats 1 hit only.
I dont play s/tpvp but i speculate its due to healing.

Thieves are already best class at “running away”. Its called reseting the fight. It doesnt happen since its not needed. People die before you run out of initiative.

Kyrus, (same as my private message) could you share your gear/build basics? I have very similar ideas on how a wvw thief should be played, but sitting at about 50% crit and baseline toughness (with only 25 points into vitality traits for survivability) plus the major kiting i do to anyone who tries to catch me of course. Thanks!

GorgeousDave.9608:

Kyrus, (same as my private message) could you share your gear/build basics? I have very similar ideas on how a wvw thief should be played, but sitting at about 50% crit and baseline toughness (with only 25 points into vitality traits for survivability) plus the major kiting i do to anyone who tries to catch me of course. Thanks!

just replied to your private message actually should edit my previous one, my base crit is actually 56% (I think) its then buffed to 76ish % the crit damage is fixed at 84% though. the buff I’m including is fury as I run in a group and its basically up for at least 45 seconds at a time.

sorry if that was misleading but the base crit is still very high for the survivability.