Guild Wars 2

Shortbow was perfectly balanced as it was, and now we are getting nerfed for what? Trickshot is completely useless, the projectile is too slow and it doesn’t even require a dodge to evade it, sidestepping does the trick.

What is the reasoning behind this nerf? I have played thief for a long time, and I have yet to hear a single complaint about SB. Mug nerf is fine by me, change on flanking strike is awesome, but really, couldn’t we just get a damage nerf (which is also not needed I think, but ok), or make it hit one less target? Because now we are hitting nothing. At least increase the projectile speed then.

Irapi.5937:

Shortbow was perfectly balanced as it was, and now we are getting nerfed for what? Trickshot is completely useless, the projectile is too slow and it doesn’t even require a dodge to evade it, sidestepping does the trick.

What is the reasoning behind this nerf? I have played thief for a long time, and I have yet to hear a single complaint about SB. Mug nerf is fine by me, change on flanking strike is awesome, but really, couldn’t we just get a damage nerf (which is also not needed I think, but ok), or make it hit one less target? Because now we are hitting nothing. At least increase the projectile speed then.

It’d be good if it shot faster and to what the time it said.. 1/4 lol. not even close.

Yeah i don’t understand this nerf either, but trick shot is completely non-viable right now. It misses ANY target that’s moving.

WTS used dreamer :/

Errant Venture.9371:

Yeah i don’t understand this nerf either, but trick shot is completely non-viable right now. It misses ANY target that’s moving.

Don’t worry we still have Mug spike damage..

Due to the nature of PvP it’s a direct nerf, probably to get us to use something else for a change (not like that’s happening though) but it won’t have a huge impact on PvE because of simplistic AI.

The problem stems from the SB now being treated as the guardian scepter in terms of how it works (although not for speed) but the fact that it has near a 1s fire animation and a moderate projectile speed makes this ‘nerf’ extraordinarily painful and rather undeserved, oh sure, it might not have been functioning the way the devs wanted it to, but as the saying goes “If it ‘aint broke’ don’t fix it” which makes you wonder… where is the compensatory pistol love?

Can’t say I’m happy, but need to test it out in Wv3 before I put on my grumpy pants.

Coffeebot.3921:

Due to the nature of PvP it’s a direct nerf, probably to get us to use something else for a change (not like that’s happening though) but it won’t have a huge impact on PvE because of simplistic AI.

The problem stems from the SB now being treated as the guardian scepter in terms of how it works (although not for speed) but the fact that it has near a 1s fire animation and a moderate projectile speed makes this ‘nerf’ extraordinarily painful and rather undeserved, oh sure, it might not have been functioning the way the devs wanted it to, but as the saying goes “If it ‘aint broke’ don’t fix it” which makes you wonder… where is the compensatory pistol love?

True, not a huge nerf on PVE, but I actually use it for PVP alot too, mainly because of the awesome mobility coupled with the nice aoe damage from trickshot and cluster bomb. I even run specs in tPVP sometimes where I use it as my main weapon, kind of painful to see my unique spec that has quite a steep learning curve getting nerfed like this. And I agree on the pistol love, P/P is a nice set for beginner thiefs in dungeons, but it should also be viable for more skilled players who want to get the most out of this class.

very curious to know what brought about this nerf.
haven’t had experiences of other classes complaining
before about trickshot, so why the change?

anet, if you REALLY like diversification in the things thieves do,
you don’t do it by badly nerfing their go-to ranged option, especially
since you haven’t even touched mathematically unsound skills in the only
other ranged p/p set they have.

.

They shouldn’t remove ‘heat seeking’ from ranged weapons, they should be adding it to every weapon that doesn’t have it.

Raze.8467:

They shouldn’t remove ‘heat seeking’ from ranged weapons, they should be adding it to every weapon that doesn’t have it.

As a guardian player i support this suggestion

Yeah, I wouldn’t even say Shortbow was perfect – Trick Shot needed a damage or speed buff. This nerf really doesn’t make any sense.

Doesn’t affect me personally. I really only use shortbow to spam Infiltrator’s Arrow when moving, or Choking Gas and Cluster Bomb for AoE damage. But if shortbow is your main weapon, this is a stab in the back from ArenaNet.

Raze.8467:

They shouldn’t remove ‘heat seeking’ from ranged weapons, they should be adding it to every weapon that doesn’t have it.

I think ArenaNet would be hard pressed to find a play who doesn’t agree with this. Why would you make a weapon purposely miss, when you have the ability to control its damage? It makes no sense, at all!

I didn’t honestly care about any of the changes thief received because shortbow was my favorite weapon…then I saw and experienced what happened. I have 3 shortbows, all 100+ gold on each skin because I adored my thief bow. Now I just…don’t know. I feel like this was wasted effort.

Noone complained or called the shortbow OP, why would they change it? Anet is taking the RIOT way of balancing. Is something balanced? Smack it with a hammer until it’s useless. Class useless? Do the same to another class so it doesn’t seem UP again. Atleast riot has the excuse of having 100+ champions to balance.

Last I remember Anet made no sub classing in GW2 so they could balance properly. Instead of nerfing everything, how about you start buffing? This patch alone had 4 of my classes nerfed… don’t punish me because I don’t want to play a bloody warrior.

Errant Venture.9371:

Yeah i don’t understand this nerf either, but trick shot is completely non-viable right now. It misses ANY target that’s moving.

Sounds like guardian’s scepter. Welcome to the club. :<

@keylimpi…..u know i think ur right….i think anet has a hard on for warriors……only class that has never really been nerfed hard…..whirl hits me too hard…dear anet….plz do what u do ty.

I’d Like to know what was wrong with Trick shot.
Most thiefs in WvW Guilds use Shortbow for blaster finishers
And ofc, when Initiative is in regen we use Auto Attacks, Whats with the Nerf?
People move all the time in any form of PvP (regrouping/splitting/flanking)

Why should my auto attacks fail to hit with a ranged weapon from them just sidestepping?

Agonoize.4021:

Why should my auto attacks fail to hit with a ranged weapon from them just sidestepping?

We wish we knew. If anything I was hoping they’d fix the speed of Trick Shot, instead they nerf it.

I knew a Shortbow nerf was coming! It’s obvious they’d not only nerf our most balanced weapon but they always have to pick a random Thief skill to nerf every patch to confuse us. It’s hard to guess which though cuz it’s usually one we had no idea needed changed.

Travlane.5948:

WTS used dreamer :/

It’s alright friend. PvE mobs move a little less than actual players…

Doggie.3184:

I knew a Shortbow nerf was coming! It’s obvious they’d not only nerf our most balanced weapon but they always have to pick a random Thief skill to nerf every patch to confuse us. It’s hard to guess which though cuz it’s usually one we had no idea needed changed.

The problem is that is not a really huge issue in PvE.
On the other hand, Any Organized guild thief that plays WvW has a shortbow on him.
I truly cant understand why the heat-seeking element was bothering them?
And now, What? people just ‘sidestep’ away from my auto attacks?
in WvW, Where everyone moves. I would understand it if it was melee, ‘hitbox’ or ‘out of range’ but sidestepping it?

Well if you think about it~ it just makes trick shot even trickier cuz the trick will be on us as well. Would be nice if they boosted it to 1200 range if it’s that easy to dodge since we’re still the only ones w/o 1200.

I sincerely hope they undo this change in the next patch, this nerf is as unnecessary as it is annoying.

Havnt played with thief that much so what does this heat seeking really stand for? Like auto targeting or something? Im confused >.<

Calling it ‘heatseeking’ is a joke based on heatseeking missiles, but basically it’s the ability of some projectiles to home in on a target that moves after the projectile has been fired. Basically, Trick Shot used to never miss – now it can, which incidentally wastes any bounces that haven’t already triggered. It’s common on bounce skills, albeit not all – the lightning breath on River Drakes definitely doesn’t have it, but elementalist Chain Lightning and guardian Ray of Judgement do.

Trick shot needed no buffs, nor changes…it was perfect…and now it’s kitten.

Not sure what made ANet decide to touch a perfectly fine, and balanced skill.

What they STILL need to fix/buff is pistol 1, and p/p in general.

At first I didn’t understand the nerf but why did the Shortbow even need any nerfs in the first place? It’s our best AOE and utility weapon which sees the least complaints but yet they nerf the autoattack which is slow already, infact the 1st two shortbow AOE’s it’s now hard to hit anything now..

What Arenanet need to do with shortbow:

skill 1. increase firing rate to 80% of ranger’s Shortbow auto attack firing rate – so it actually does enough damage over time to actually apply some kind of pressure to enemies (20% less because our auto attack is sometimes an AoE if other players happen to be standing nearby)

Reason: I was playing on my soldier armour warrior and I had a thief attack me with shortbow auto attack. It was hilarious – he did virtually no damage to me and the attack speed was just soooo slow – I didn’t even need to heal after he shot at me for 10-15 seconds. Shortbow auto attack really is very weak. If situation was reversed and I was on my warrior rifle or longbow – the thief would have been feeling the pain.

skill 2. increase travel speed of cluster bomb by 150%

Reason: it is way too slow – even 100% wouldn’t be enough of a buff. You can’t use it against moving targets – even if you predict where they are going to be – the red circle appears well before they arrive and they can dodge it or run around it too easily. It is responsible for 100% of the burst damage that shortbow can do and yet it can only be used at zero range by spamming detonates. Cluster bomb is the equivalent of a warrior’s Volley skill or a ranger’s Rapid Fire skill (burst) – yet it is so hard to hit anyone unless you are at zero range [which is not really the point of using a ranged weapon] or standing on top of a keep wall shooting down into the zerg. Additionally, buff the range to 1200 to help with thieves having better AoE during offensive/defensive sieges – then I can do something while I am standing outside the keep door.

skill 3: nothing – it’s good
skill 4: nothing – it’s good

skill 5: make it an instant cast shadow step – not a projectile shadow step

State of the game said they wanted thieves to be more mobile. When I have lag in WvW and I am running with swiftness my infiltrator arrow actually makes me shadow step backwards because the projectile speed is so slow and the shadow step range is so small that I have run past the target area before the projectile even hits. If they can’t switch to instant step, then perhaps buff the range to 1200.

As a mainly Shortbow thief in WvW, speced entirely for shortbow in cost of stealth and stuff , i am disappointed – as they nerfed main weapon for no apparent reason.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

What Arenanet need to do with shortbow:

skill 1. increase firing rate to 80% of ranger’s Shortbow auto attack firing rate – so it actually does enough damage over time to actually apply some kind of pressure to enemies (20% less because our auto attack is sometimes an AoE if other players happen to be standing nearby)

Reason: I was playing on my soldier armour warrior and I had a thief attack me with shortbow auto attack. It was hilarious – he did virtually no damage to me and the attack speed was just soooo slow – I didn’t even need to heal after he shot at me for 10-15 seconds. Shortbow auto attack really is very weak. If situation was reversed and I was on my warrior rifle or longbow – the thief would have been feeling the pain.

skill 2. increase travel speed of cluster bomb by 150%

Reason: it is way too slow – even 100% wouldn’t be enough of a buff. You can’t use it against moving targets – even if you predict where they are going to be – the red circle appears well before they arrive and they can dodge it or run around it too easily. It is responsible for 100% of the burst damage that shortbow can do and yet it can only be used at zero range by spamming detonates. Cluster bomb is the equivalent of a warrior’s Volley skill or a ranger’s Rapid Fire skill (burst) – yet it is so hard to hit anyone unless you are at zero range [which is not really the point of using a ranged weapon] or standing on top of a keep wall shooting down into the zerg. Additionally, buff the range to 1200 to help with thieves having better AoE during offensive/defensive sieges – then I can do something while I am standing outside the keep door.

skill 3: nothing – it’s good
skill 4: nothing – it’s good

skill 5: make it an instant cast shadow step – not a projectile shadow step

State of the game said they wanted thieves to be more mobile. When I have lag in WvW and I am running with swiftness my infiltrator arrow actually makes me shadow step backwards because the projectile speed is so slow and the shadow step range is so small that I have run past the target area before the projectile even hits. If they can’t switch to instant step, then perhaps buff the range to 1200.

I agree with this, altough cluster should cost more initiative then, otherwise we would get some insane SB burst which isn’t what the weapon exists for. Would love some buff in mobility too.

Cluster is fine as it is, with the speed it has. As other poster said – changing it to higher speed would probably result in higher initiative cost, and thats not something desirable. Cant spam Cluster bomb since need to wait for it to fly to location? Thats already a natural limiter and works as intended.

Trickshot… even NPCs dodge it now! (had fun with Centaurs in WvW borderlands that just ran past its shots…). The nerf is insane and unwarranted. If anything – Trickshoot needed a buff, not nerf.

Skill 3-4… i`d reduce initiative cost on 3. 4 is ok as it is for fields.

5 – yes, needs instant port. When its laggy in wvw, by the time it works, i already ran past the point i was aiming at. Also instead of Blind, would be nice if it`d be able to function as Blast Finisher on where you land… but thats probably too much to ask.

tbh cluster bombs moving faster would just even out the damage across the ranges rather than make it ridiculous, the maximum burst will always be shotgunning, that wont change with faster projectiles (if anything it would possible lower it as it becomes harder to properly shotgun with the faster shots)

while at max range it might actually arrive before your initiative fully regens, so slight increase in DPS from it but not full burst to the point where nerfs would be needed in other aspects.

For trick shot I think I saw 1 post complaining about it, but that was complaining that the bouncing attack would hit people on keep walls when it was shot at cannons/siege weapons people decided to build on the edge.

If anything more weapons need a slight homing effect, sure stop them being able to do U turns or 90 degree turns, but give em enough to hit people that are just running (or at least sidestepping)

If anything I’d love to see trick shot becoming more of a trick shot in all cases (bouncing off floor/walls when no additional targets maybe?) but mostly was happy how it was (barring post-activation delays that plague so many attacks)

stupid a-net team, i have nothing more to say….
made trickshot useless vs moving targets.

Travlane.5948:

@keylimpi…..u know i think ur right….i think anet has a hard on for warriors……only class that has never really been nerfed hard…..whirl hits me too hard…dear anet….plz do what u do ty.

It will not be as long as Izzy works for them…

I considered Trick Shot to be perfect before. Damage was solid, projectile speed was fine, etc. Was more-or-less perfectly balanced as far as a ranged attack goes.

It is “okay” now. It isn’t as bad as Guardian scepter or anything like that, but it definitely lost a lot of its lustre. I have been a heavy SB user since I made my Thief (Oct). I don’t see that changing since skills 2-5 all range from good to excellent. But I am disappointed as it certainly wasn’t a change that needed to happen (as can be argued with Mug).

What in the…what is this…seriously anet? Fix this.

OMG. I left my ranger BECAUSE THE BOW SUCKED.

And I’ve stayed with my thief because if there was a bit of lag or something, I can pull my short bow out and count on sub-par but consistent damage.

This is unbelievable. Revert the change and add that mechanic in to every other profession’s bow.

I would absolutely love to hear the bullcrap reasoning that made this look like a good thing.

I cant believe SB got nerfed this way. i am disappoint. More cookie cutter instagib builds then.

Can’t believe that, so in WvW we can’t hit nothing that move.
In dungeons we are forced in p/p kitten.

Comon ANet reverse this.

Continue posting guys, we need ANet answer this.

Indeed, I think it’s fair to get atleast a reason from a dev behind this nerf, imo nerfs are ok as long as a dev can give us a solid and logical answer on why the nerf was made, and I don’t really see a solid and logical answer here myself.

They just forgot to update another tooltip, its a new soft CC:

Trick shot.

Blindfold yourself and perform a trick shot.
20% chance to hit.
95% chance for enemy to roll over laughing.

I guess some people just doesn’t have a clue. Well I will you why with 4 reasons that make you go “Oh…”

1. A GC Thief with shortbow can eat a GC Warrior alive.

2. John Peter is a Warrior at heart.

3. There is a saying goes “To win against someone you can NOT win, is to make them can NOT kill you.”

4. John Peter is one of the men who balance this game.

Irapi.5937:

Indeed, I think it’s fair to get atleast a reason from a dev behind this nerf, imo nerfs are ok as long as a dev can give us a solid and logical answer on why the nerf was made, and I don’t really see a solid and logical answer here myself.

Honestly, I think the majority of balance changes are made based on computer calculated equations, rather then player experience.

Kasama.8941:

Irapi.5937:

Indeed, I think it’s fair to get atleast a reason from a dev behind this nerf, imo nerfs are ok as long as a dev can give us a solid and logical answer on why the nerf was made, and I don’t really see a solid and logical answer here myself.

Honestly, I think the majority of balance changes are made based on computer calculated equations, rather then player experience.

And that is exactly the problem sometimes, just because the computer calculates that the shortbow is too strong doesn’t mean that it is too strong in every combat situation in this game. And besides that, this nerf didn’t only nerf the weapon, but it destroyed one of the only viable damage sources on it.

Of course you all considered Shortbow fine it was op and benefited you. Aoe that hones in your target lol. Most games have aoe that is gtaoe or pbaoe only.

bouncing attacks aren’t really AoE

I wasn’t aware that having legit physics in a game is considered a nerf.

“My target dodged my arrow because he moved out of the way.” Where’s the problem in that? A heat-seeking arrow? Even in GW that sounds farfetched.

We can dodge NPC projectiles, so why is it a bad thing if players can dodge player projectiles?

Don’t want a player to dodge your arrows? Stealth and shoot him/her up close. Use a trap.

Mauz.4926:

I wasn’t aware that having legit physics in a game is considered a nerf.

“My target dodged my arrow because he moved out of the way.” Where’s the problem in that? A heat-seeking arrow? Even in GW that sounds farfetched.

We can dodge NPC projectiles, so why is it a bad thing if players can dodge player projectiles?

Don’t want a player to dodge your arrows? Stealth and shoot him/her up close. Use a trap.

The problem comes with stuff like latency and sync issues, with no even slight compensation mechanics for that it means you can end up only ever being able to hit people immobilized in some shape or form (this should be for everyone not just trick shot) and your out of luck if your immob/knockdown/stuns work in the same way.

NPC’s don’t have these issues.

It’s really odd, I used to run a shortbow build in spvp and always felt like I was losing if I was trading shots with it (except against a person +pet), but it really shined when you were being totally ignored.

If you miss 1/5 shots because of this your DPS drops by 20%… I mean, really? was it THAT strong?

Mauz.4926:

I wasn’t aware that having legit physics in a game is considered a nerf.

“My target dodged my arrow because he moved out of the way.” Where’s the problem in that? A heat-seeking arrow? Even in GW that sounds farfetched.

We can dodge NPC projectiles, so why is it a bad thing if players can dodge player projectiles?

Don’t want a player to dodge your arrows? Stealth and shoot him/her up close. Use a trap.

I wasn’t aware that bows are close combat weapons. I use my bow to be at a safe distant, so now we are supposed to smack people in the face with our bows because the arrows don’t get to our target if not in a 1 meter radius?