Guild Wars 2

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Why-bring-a-thief-to-dungeons/page/2#post1382082

Wondering what’s with all the Thief hate? I thought we’re one of the most OP classes in the game next to Warriors and Guardians?

What do the Thief experts think of all the Thief hate? Is this just a case of experiences with Thieves in dungeons, or is something fundamentally wrong with Thief?

Where thieves are considered by some OP’d in PvP, they’re also considered lacking in PvE ability. Especially in the case of lacking team supporting abilities (weather or not that’s actually true), and overall squishiness.

Thieves are weak in dungeons. Stealth does not offer enough defense to be effective in dungeons as much as it does in wvw. Our long term or sustained dps sucks compared to every other class.

In wvw and spvp, thief class is fine but in dungeons they blow compared to every other class. Even a very well played thief vs. average warrior, the warrior will offer more benefit.

The problem is to get decent dps out of a thief we need to sacrifice defense, mainly vit+tough. Stealth doesn’t diminish the amount of damage we take directly, we need to get in close a lot to use stealth. If we get hit by any aoe attack, and most bosses have them, we get kitten because we don’t have the natural defenses the other classes have.

Thief is broken in dungeons and such.

Thank you ANet for making laurels because I can’t get a group with my thief in fractals.

Kain Francois.4328:

Wondering what’s with all the Thief hate? I thought we’re one of the most OP classes in the game next to Warriors and Guardians?

Thieves are apparently only OP in WvW, a place where bad players can and will often get bursted down by a glass cannon thief (Usually the player being bursted down is also GC and is used to facerolling into other classes and killing them)

PvP they lack team-play in a lot of situations… Their main source of survivability comes from stealth which tends to be counter productive to capture points.

As far as PvE goes, thieves could use a few tweaks (Though I don’t see major reasons to exclude them from groups… I mean their sustained damage isn’t the best but isn’t complete garbage and the support they can provide via spamming blast finishers into fields is pretty nice.)

In short – There are some strong aspects to thieves (That cause QQ from various people) but they also aren’t the godmode class that the QQ makes them seem to be.

Taril.8619:

Kain Francois.4328:

Wondering what’s with all the Thief hate? I thought we’re one of the most OP classes in the game next to Warriors and Guardians?

Thieves are apparently only OP in WvW, a place where bad players can and will often get bursted down by a glass cannon thief

THE END! PERIOD! THE FKING END TO THE OP THIEF DISCUSSION!

I’m so tired of this.

Well no need for this to go on any longer Swinsk summed it up perfectly. +1 to you good sir.

Hopefully thiefs will get more PvE power! They can be helpful at dungeons especially if you need to take care of special things like CoF path 2 the player that takes care of the assassins that try to kill Magg. Did good with my warrior…better with a thief. But back when you did the whole one guy run in and try to hold them off of Magg I imploded within 10secs without stealth.

Going glass cannon is absolute failure for us in dungeons and that’s why some think we’re bad at it.

Do you want to be effective? Take 15 points on DA, Shadow Refuge and a Shortbow. You can keep all enemies on 75% of their usual damage, activate EVERY SINGLE combo field you see with a blast. Cluster Bomb is the best finisher in the game, and combos are great even though not many players take them in consideration. A Ranger + Thief makes the best heal in the game: Healing Spring is a 15 seconds Water Field, and with it a Thief can heal 1400 HP per second to everyone in the area.

With Shadow Refuge you can skip a lot of hard content and safely resurrect players (as long as they know what’s happening and don’t go hurhur autoattack on a 90% HP champion because I think I will kill him and rally…).

Thieves can be great in dungeons, they’re simply seen as a liability because how many players insist on going glass cannon instead of support, an area where we can excel but no many players really know it.

Taril.8619:

Thieves are apparently only OP in WvW, a place where bad players can and will often get bursted down by a glass cannon thief (Usually the player being bursted down is also GC and is used to facerolling into other classes and killing them)

These are the lies Thief mains tell themselves and everyone else so they hopefully can continue to enjoy running around EB with impunity. Blame the bads instead of the broken profession balance.

The close-to-perma-stealth the profession enjoys is flaty and completely broken and is kept that way because the class blows in PVE (ie, Anet must keep the init pool deep for pve which is, in turn, too deep for wvw).

My main is a not-GC ranger, you may begin your flaming in 3…. 2… 1…

swinsk.6410:

The problem is to get decent dps out of a thief we need to sacrifice defense, mainly vit+tough.

Doesn’t that…apply…to every class?

rootnode.9546:

swinsk.6410:

The problem is to get decent dps out of a thief we need to sacrifice defense, mainly vit+tough.

Doesn’t that…apply…to every class?

Not really, Warriors don’t, Guardians don’t, Elementalists don’t—-….. could go on the list.

Thieves have low base dps, always had.

Do these other classes have high mobility and stealth? No.
Do guardians have the lowest health and only put out decent DPS when sacrificing a whole lot of survivability? Yes.

Lokheit.7943:

Going glass cannon is absolute failure for us in dungeons and that’s why some think we’re bad at it.

Do you want to be effective? Take 15 points on DA, Shadow Refuge and a Shortbow. You can keep all enemies on 75% of their usual damage, activate EVERY SINGLE combo field you see with a blast. Cluster Bomb is the best finisher in the game, and combos are great even though not many players take them in consideration. A Ranger + Thief makes the best heal in the game: Healing Spring is a 15 seconds Water Field, and with it a Thief can heal 1400 HP per second to everyone in the area.

With Shadow Refuge you can skip a lot of hard content and safely resurrect players (as long as they know what’s happening and don’t go hurhur autoattack on a 90% HP champion because I think I will kill him and rally…).

Thieves can be great in dungeons, they’re simply seen as a liability because how many players insist on going glass cannon instead of support, an area where we can excel but no many players really know it.

Glass cannon is the way to go. Just take 15(20) points in Acrobatics, though you might argue it’s not glass cannon anymore. Taking shadow refuge does not exlude from being a glass cannon.

Circ.1430:

These are the lies Thief mains tell themselves and everyone else so they hopefully can continue to enjoy running around EB with impunity. Blame the bads instead of the broken profession balance.

The close-to-perma-stealth the profession enjoys is flaty and completely broken and is kept that way because the class blows in PVE (ie, Anet must keep the init pool deep for pve which is, in turn, too deep for wvw).

My main is a not-GC ranger, you may begin your flaming in 3…. 2… 1…

I’m sure your totally non-emotionally influenced response would mean something if I actually mained a Thief.

Instead I focus more on my Mesmer and GC Warrior (Full Zerker gear, no traits for defence) both of which do more damage than my full GC Thief (Initial burst may not be as high, but over periods of time my other characters put out way more) and also have much more survivability and access to mobility that doesn’t cripple damage output.

Does this mean that the amount of damage Mug does is fine? No, I don’t think that it should do that much damage.

Does it mean I get stomped over by OP thieves on my other characters? No because 90% of thieves are predictable after getting used to their playstyle.

IMO it’s the lack of any counter to stealth… which thieves have in abundance. On top of that rendering/culling issues makes the thief invisible for too long (making the revealed debuff a joke).

That being said thief is a one trick pony regardless of their build. Very predictable indeed.

The problem isn’t with Thiefs, but stacking Guardians and Warriors makes a lot of the boss fights in FOTM trivial at best. Literally 2-3 Guardian’s on certain fights can chain abilities so the boss does 0 damage to you.

I hardly feel useless in dungeons, even fractals. Resetting aggro is incredibly helpful during a rez or when things go badly. Stealth certainly makes the bomb portion of the dredge fractal much easier.

Maybe certain builds are less effective, but I’m sure that is true for all professions. In fact I can think of a ton of different ways thief can be useful. The smoke wall to block projectiles, being able to IA through a lot of traps to deactivate them.

We have plenty of ways to stealth without offhand dagger. I personally enjoy the ability to us smoke bomb when knocked down to prevent myself, and teammates from being downed while stunned.

True the initiative system isn’t designed well for prolonged fights but that doesn’t make us useless.