Guild Wars 2

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Teamkiller.4315:

Look back at what this quote chain was about, and you will see. It has nothing to do with the “fundamental problem” of a smidgen less dps in PvE, which again, I already said needs fixing.

The fundamental problem is the staying power like the OP said. To compensate for that, the Thief are given a lot of DPS.

With the changes on revealed, we get laskluster staying power and cummulative broken negative effect in our DPS.

Whether it is in PvP or in PvE, the negative effect of stealth in our DPS is significant, noticeable, and annoying.

I don’t really notice it, however. And I do not PvE with my thief, which again, I already said needs tweaking.

Whether you notice it or not is not relevant. The fact is, it’s there. And I disagree, it is noticeable.

The fact that his hp is around 16k is why hes all up in arms about this.

uzu.7351:

Teamkiller smells like ele … MUG nerf deserved xD … why doesn’t anet give us rotten apples to throw at targets tbh or atleast to throw at rotten trolls such as teamkiller here.

Imo ANYONE that has not played a thief at lvl 80 and in sPvP should not even be here.

hes a guardian.

Dasorine.1964:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The idea of a “glass cannon” is for it to break after dealing a lot of damage. But glass cannon Thieves aren’t breaking after massive damage and that’s the problem.

I think the nerf will be on the survivability of glass cannons, since they have to break, rather than targetting the damage output of the Thieves.

But that’s just me.

The question is though, why these glass cannons don’t break afterwards, people claim its because stealth is overpowered but it doesn’t actually prevent that much damage against people that know how it works, so what else is it causing these glass cannons to reduce all this damage?

Invisibility not only breaks LOS atks but it breaks target lock meaning players have to re-target the thief (hit tab) every time stealth is used.

Not to mention the regeneration, condition removal, and repositioning going on in the mean time.

Opponents cant react given only a 3 sec window.

GC builds should require support from other team mates for survivability but as it was thieves could run full zerk gear with no toughness, vitality and still survive.

All I can say is welcome to the club of placing more resources into those areas in order to survive……….

GC thieves weren’t touched.

Thieves that stayed to fight were.

Jaytee.9513:

Invisibility not only breaks LOS atks but it breaks target lock meaning players have to re-target the thief (hit tab) every time stealth is used.

Not to mention the regeneration, condition removal, and repositioning going on in the mean time.

Opponents cant react given only a 3 sec window.

GC builds should require support from other team mates for survivability but as it was thieves could run full zerk gear with no toughness, vitality and still survive.

All I can say is welcome to the club of placing more resources into those areas in order to survive……….

As long as there are no other targets, very few of those attacks won’t still hit when fired off in the thieves general direction and if there are other targets your in a team battle that should have teammates that can help with CCing and AoE to make up for it.

The stealth trait effects aren’t in every build but I concede that those that do have them have a bit more survivability in stealth with them but not enough to prevent death while still in stealth if their opponent does well.

Against the average WvW stealth does well yes but as soon as you throw in even just a single experienced player that knows how to handle a stealthing thief and stealth suddenly becomes almost non-existent.

For example I recently rolled a ranger, I took it into WvW with a longbow at level 4 and with no utility and only 2 of my weapon skills unlocked (rapidfire and hunters shot) I fought a thief who was at least level 30 (they had elite skills) not only to a stand still but long enough that they tried to flee and when they did they ran into a second person who helped finish them off. Sure the thief was actually really bad but the fact is every time they stealthed or tried to stealth I either evaded (wasting their initiative) or I just simply ignored it and kept hitting them.

Now I’m not saying thats possible against every thief and different professions will find different mileage with different builds but stealth is definitely not as risk free nor as big a survival boost as many people make it out to be.

Jaytee.9513:

Dasorine.1964:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The idea of a “glass cannon” is for it to break after dealing a lot of damage. But glass cannon Thieves aren’t breaking after massive damage and that’s the problem.

I think the nerf will be on the survivability of glass cannons, since they have to break, rather than targetting the damage output of the Thieves.

But that’s just me.

The question is though, why these glass cannons don’t break afterwards, people claim its because stealth is overpowered but it doesn’t actually prevent that much damage against people that know how it works, so what else is it causing these glass cannons to reduce all this damage?

(1)Invisibility not only breaks LOS atks but it breaks target lock meaning players have to re-target the thief (hit tab) every time stealth is used.

Not to mention the regeneration, condition removal, and repositioning going on in the mean time.

(2)Opponents cant react given only a 3 sec window.

(3)GC builds should require support from other team mates for survivability but as it was thieves could run full zerk gear with no toughness, vitality and still survive.

All I can say is welcome to the club of placing more resources into those areas in order to survive……….

(1)If this was the traditional MMO style (WoW clone), I could agree here. However, it’s not. A thief in stealth, can be hit in stealth. We’re not invulnerable. Issues might be if you’re playing a caster type weapon (staff, scepter, etc.), but melee weapons can still hit the thief very easily, and if you watch your attack go through it’s chain, you know where we are.

I do this all the time against thieves if they SR. Works especially combined with mobility. Or, spam an AoE in the field. Or if you’re playing Staff Necro, throw down a Reaper’s Mark (dead center if you have the larger marks trait, or on an edge if not). There are plenty of counters to any class in stealth.

(2)If they can’t react within a 3 second window, tell grandma to stop playing MMOs… Really… http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/stats.php

(3)The decent ones can anyways. Most GC Thieves seem to run in head first, down one person, and get killed by the rest. Actually, most GC’s seem to do this, even Warriors. I watched a team mate Warrior run into a group of 5 earlier, just freaking hilarious. XD

Really, if they want to nerf Thieves damage, but buff our health pool, and other passive surviability stuff, then great. But as far as stealth goes, it really seems like a L2P problem.

Dasorine.1964:

Jaytee.9513:

Invisibility not only breaks LOS atks but it breaks target lock meaning players have to re-target the thief (hit tab) every time stealth is used.

Not to mention the regeneration, condition removal, and repositioning going on in the mean time.

Opponents cant react given only a 3 sec window.

GC builds should require support from other team mates for survivability but as it was thieves could run full zerk gear with no toughness, vitality and still survive.

All I can say is welcome to the club of placing more resources into those areas in order to survive……….

As long as there are no other targets, very few of those attacks won’t still hit when fired off in the thieves general direction and if there are other targets your in a team battle that should have teammates that can help with CCing and AoE to make up for it.

The stealth trait effects aren’t in every build but I concede that those that do have them have a bit more survivability in stealth with them but not enough to prevent death while still in stealth if their opponent does well.

Against the average WvW stealth does well yes but as soon as you throw in even just a single experienced player that knows how to handle a stealthing thief and stealth suddenly becomes almost non-existent.

For example I recently rolled a ranger, I took it into WvW with a longbow at level 4 and with no utility and only 2 of my weapon skills unlocked (rapidfire and hunters shot) I fought a thief who was at least level 30 (they had elite skills) not only to a stand still but long enough that they tried to flee and when they did they ran into a second person who helped finish them off. Sure the thief was actually really bad but the fact is every time they stealthed or tried to stealth I either evaded (wasting their initiative) or I just simply ignored it and kept hitting them.

Now I’m not saying thats possible against every thief and different professions will find different mileage with different builds but stealth is definitely not as risk free nor as big a survival boost as many people make it out to be.

Also, in addition to this post, I’ve recently been playing other classes to learn more about them. But, since I have so much time as a thief, I hardly ever have an issue with them.

Playing Necro? Are they going to Backstab? Time to pop DS and get that 3 second retal. Did they going into SR? Time for Reaper’s Mark. Are they spamming HS? Make them run away with some fear, and give yourself some breathing room.

Etc, etc. You get the idea. If you have such a hard time with thieves, try playing one. Learn the mindset, and we’re easier to beat. It’s like complaining about Mesmer’\s, when you dont understand the class and the real one’s sitting in the back laughing at you destroy their clones.

Kneru.8014:

Dasorine.1964:

Jaytee.9513:

Invisibility not only breaks LOS atks but it breaks target lock meaning players have to re-target the thief (hit tab) every time stealth is used.

Not to mention the regeneration, condition removal, and repositioning going on in the mean time.

Opponents cant react given only a 3 sec window.

GC builds should require support from other team mates for survivability but as it was thieves could run full zerk gear with no toughness, vitality and still survive.

All I can say is welcome to the club of placing more resources into those areas in order to survive……….

As long as there are no other targets, very few of those attacks won’t still hit when fired off in the thieves general direction and if there are other targets your in a team battle that should have teammates that can help with CCing and AoE to make up for it.

The stealth trait effects aren’t in every build but I concede that those that do have them have a bit more survivability in stealth with them but not enough to prevent death while still in stealth if their opponent does well.

Against the average WvW stealth does well yes but as soon as you throw in even just a single experienced player that knows how to handle a stealthing thief and stealth suddenly becomes almost non-existent.

For example I recently rolled a ranger, I took it into WvW with a longbow at level 4 and with no utility and only 2 of my weapon skills unlocked (rapidfire and hunters shot) I fought a thief who was at least level 30 (they had elite skills) not only to a stand still but long enough that they tried to flee and when they did they ran into a second person who helped finish them off. Sure the thief was actually really bad but the fact is every time they stealthed or tried to stealth I either evaded (wasting their initiative) or I just simply ignored it and kept hitting them.

Now I’m not saying thats possible against every thief and different professions will find different mileage with different builds but stealth is definitely not as risk free nor as big a survival boost as many people make it out to be.

Also, in addition to this post, I’ve recently been playing other classes to learn more about them. But, since I have so much time as a thief, I hardly ever have an issue with them.

Playing Necro? Are they going to Backstab? Time to pop DS and get that 3 second retal. Did they going into SR? Time for Reaper’s Mark. Are they spamming HS? Make them run away with some fear, and give yourself some breathing room.

Etc, etc. You get the idea. If you have such a hard time with thieves, try playing one. Learn the mindset, and we’re easier to beat. It’s like complaining about Mesmer’\s, when you dont understand the class and the real one’s sitting in the back laughing at you destroy their clones.

Exactly.
On an Ele, Shadow refuge?
Burning Speed + ring of fire, + burning breath the area.