Guild Wars 2

I have always thoroughly enjoyed stealthy stabby gameplay, and felt guild wars 2 had the BEST design when it came to thief. Literally being the reason I played the game, now I can only find it infuriating. Does anyone know when the next balance patch comes so I might have SOME hope of playing this kitten ed character again? I had read somewhere that it is quarterly…?

I play DD s/d thief atm and I find it very strong. especially in Stronghold mode when you have alot of space to manuver.

m8 go staff/sb… amazing build but has a pretty high skill cap.

the ONLY build I’ve been able to play as dd is an interrupt shadow arts build. if i take anything else i just die too much. But yeah, the point of this post was to find out when the balance schedule is since i’m clueless.if anyone knows that is.

I doubt any buffs are coming soon. Change the way you play and your build. Or don’t and quit :P.

There will ( hopefully ) be a big balance patch before the ranked league season start, which is in 1 month from now.

So all our hopes is to get something good from that.

You think if I typed out a rework that we all worked on together, that they’d use it XD?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoaVl0MhunYlTw0Jw/ELwEmXa4M0Gm7glwWoWCIAkBA-TJBFABiXGggnAwCHCAAOBAAA

I’m quite effective with this build. Even if not all Traits on DD are updated there

I’ve been running this to good success.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoaVl0MhynYhTw0Jw/ELwEmXa4M0Gm7glwVoWCIAkBA-TZBFABCcEAEvMABPAgFOEAAcCAAA

We’re just going back a few metas and needing to rely on support from allies rather than ourselves. It introduces the need for team more team play and less "every player for themself," which is I think where ANet want PvP to go with Pro Leagues by creating more distinguished roles, even in those which use celestial stats.

The meta is changing. Change with it, or you’ll feel underpowered. In the case of DA/Trick/SA, SA is largely useless wiith the amount of AoE, reveal, cleave and cc on downed players now. DD may look underwhelming and you may feel cheated for not getting any change to the profession mechanic. Mesmers and warriors got a new profession skill, eles got a new feature to each of their’s, guardians got new profession skills, necromancers got a death shroud rework. Engi didn’t get anything new to their profession skills either though, and warrior’s elite specialisation is quite.... lame. In fact I’ve not seen more than 4 warriors in pvp since HoT release. But the reality is, when you factor in the improved support of elementalists and the tankiness of scrappers and reapers, the inability to res now even with SA and the reveal skills, a trait line which gives you some extra survival outside of stealth, synergy, and more damage, is a very nice fit.

I had concerns about daredevil before it was launched, even after trying it in the betas, but the problem was I didn’t have the full picture. With thief, you always have to have an idea of what the other classes can do before you know what to run and how to be effective. It’s the cost of versatility, which is an advantage.

Edit: Lol would you look at that. I’m still forgetting about rangers.
Edit 2: Corrected signet on build.

Soon™

Sandrox.9524:

I play DD s/d thief atm and I find it very strong. especially in Stronghold mode when you have alot of space to manuver.

I play this a lot and it is the most useless build.

you just run away ,run away, and run away. if you dont ,you got kill even by SA dp thief.

Arlowslol.1974:

Sandrox.9524:

I play DD s/d thief atm and I find it very strong. especially in Stronghold mode when you have alot of space to manuver.

I play this a lot and it is the most useless build.

you just run away ,run away, and run away. if you dont ,you got kill even by SA dp thief.

Well it depends how you spec your traits and how is your playstyle. Imo my role as a thief in Spvp is to be as mobile as I can, capping points that no one is there, +1 in fights, wait in the shadows for using palm strike on foes for insta roflol stomp, and mess around with mesmers and necros.I am always one of the top scores and I get alot of kills.
Im using DD/DA/TR and I got lots of dmg and I am so fast I feel like im surfing the map.

Arlowslol.1974:

Sandrox.9524:

I play DD s/d thief atm and I find it very strong. especially in Stronghold mode when you have alot of space to manuver.

I play this a lot and it is the most useless build.

you just run away ,run away, and run away. if you dont ,you got kill even by SA dp thief.

It’s a missleading build. It’s basically a win-more build. If your team is stronger than the opposing, you will feel as though you’re god mode, nothing can touch you, you’re pushing out great damage. If your team is equal, you will bring less than a d/p thief, will get pressured out of team fights, and have a hard time of the smaller fights when stalked by the other team’s D/P thief. If your team is weaker, you’ll zip about staying alive maybe getting some sneaky decaps and feel like you’re the only good player there.

This is coming from someone who stuck with S/D right up to and a bit beyond the elite specialisations, where I finally had to concede defeat because the vigor changes made my DA/CS/Trick build need Acro, which resulted in having less damage than the easier and less riskier DA/Trick/SA. Unfortunately S/D still doesn’t bring any significant advantages over D/P again. It used to be able to fight longer, therefore out damaging, and with the old CS it had more damage anyway, but now it can’t fight as long, when it does it’s because it’s not dealing damage, and once the fight is lost due to being effectively down half a player, the S/D thief has to run away but can’t get a decap or anything because it doesn’t have enough stealth, and will be followed and out rotated. Although on that last point, in solo queue again, it’s missleading because most there won’t have half a clue. Sometimes they’ll even let you walk right past them to decap.

I don’t know about anyone else but I freaking love thief in PvP right now. I’ve been running DA, Trick, and DD with d/p and p/p off-hand. It may not be the most effective or build but i’m having a ton of fun with it while also just wrecking most people I come across.

Serious Thought.5394:

You think if I typed out a rework that we all worked on together, that they’d use it XD?

Doubt it. They most likely have their own schedule and IF they discussed changes with players, it’d only be with the top players who have experiences that vary alot more than ours which is why the upcoming changes might not make much sense in the future for alot of players.

“Ignore the community, they’re dumb. But hey, this top .0001% is just fine. Listen to them over the 99.99999%.” I kinda wanna try anyway tbh. I just don’t wanna take forum page space if no one will put thought/effort into it with me.

This top .0001% that play the game to its fullest, find every abusable comp, stat and trait combo, etc. I’d expect ANET to take their advice more seriously than a person who plays the game for <10 hours a week.

SlayerSixx.5763:

This top .0001% that play the game to its fullest, find every abusable comp, stat and trait combo, etc. I’d expect ANET to take their advice more seriously than a person who plays the game for <10 hours a week.

They shouldn’t “listen” or depend on anyone to make the game actually balanced and not catering to the top .0001% or the 99.999% casuals.

Plus the top 0.0001% should adept a lot better than the remaining 99.999%.

Impact.2780:

Arlowslol.1974:

Sandrox.9524:

I play DD s/d thief atm and I find it very strong. especially in Stronghold mode when you have alot of space to manuver.

I play this a lot and it is the most useless build.

you just run away ,run away, and run away. if you dont ,you got kill even by SA dp thief.

It’s a missleading build. It’s basically a win-more build. If your team is stronger than the opposing, you will feel as though you’re god mode, nothing can touch you, you’re pushing out great damage. If your team is equal, you will bring less than a d/p thief, will get pressured out of team fights, and have a hard time of the smaller fights when stalked by the other team’s D/P thief. If your team is weaker, you’ll zip about staying alive maybe getting some sneaky decaps and feel like you’re the only good player there.

This is coming from someone who stuck with S/D right up to and a bit beyond the elite specialisations, where I finally had to concede defeat because the vigor changes made my DA/CS/Trick build need Acro, which resulted in having less damage than the easier and less riskier DA/Trick/SA. Unfortunately S/D still doesn’t bring any significant advantages over D/P again. It used to be able to fight longer, therefore out damaging, and with the old CS it had more damage anyway, but now it can’t fight as long, when it does it’s because it’s not dealing damage, and once the fight is lost due to being effectively down half a player, the S/D thief has to run away but can’t get a decap or anything because it doesn’t have enough stealth, and will be followed and out rotated. Although on that last point, in solo queue again, it’s missleading because most there won’t have half a clue. Sometimes they’ll even let you walk right past them to decap.

Im not even sure how you came up with thing that s/d is subpar to d/p. On 1v1 it might be true but this game is not about 1v1 and mobility is the best virtue of a s/d thief and with DD im controling the fights, I pick the one I want and im doing immense dmg to a not bunker-ish builds. We had a match the other day me and my friend we had 250+ score each one while all our teammates had 20 to 50 score we won against pvp guild(although it was on stronghold). d/p might be the better spec to play, but s/d is far from not viable or not remotly close to d/p level. sayin know I will kill, some fights I lose, some fights i give up, some fights I win and I love it.

Sandrox.9524:

Impact.2780:

Arlowslol.1974:

Sandrox.9524:

I play DD s/d thief atm and I find it very strong. especially in Stronghold mode when you have alot of space to manuver.

I play this a lot and it is the most useless build.

you just run away ,run away, and run away. if you dont ,you got kill even by SA dp thief.

It’s a missleading build. It’s basically a win-more build. If your team is stronger than the opposing, you will feel as though you’re god mode, nothing can touch you, you’re pushing out great damage. If your team is equal, you will bring less than a d/p thief, will get pressured out of team fights, and have a hard time of the smaller fights when stalked by the other team’s D/P thief. If your team is weaker, you’ll zip about staying alive maybe getting some sneaky decaps and feel like you’re the only good player there.

This is coming from someone who stuck with S/D right up to and a bit beyond the elite specialisations, where I finally had to concede defeat because the vigor changes made my DA/CS/Trick build need Acro, which resulted in having less damage than the easier and less riskier DA/Trick/SA. Unfortunately S/D still doesn’t bring any significant advantages over D/P again. It used to be able to fight longer, therefore out damaging, and with the old CS it had more damage anyway, but now it can’t fight as long, when it does it’s because it’s not dealing damage, and once the fight is lost due to being effectively down half a player, the S/D thief has to run away but can’t get a decap or anything because it doesn’t have enough stealth, and will be followed and out rotated. Although on that last point, in solo queue again, it’s missleading because most there won’t have half a clue. Sometimes they’ll even let you walk right past them to decap.

Im not even sure how you came up with thing that s/d is subpar to d/p. On 1v1 it might be true but this game is not about 1v1 and mobility is the best virtue of a s/d thief and with DD im controling the fights, I pick the one I want and im doing immense dmg to a not bunker-ish builds. We had a match the other day me and my friend we had 250+ score each one while all our teammates had 20 to 50 score we won against pvp guild(although it was on stronghold). d/p might be the better spec to play, but s/d is far from not viable or not remotly close to d/p level. sayin know I will kill, some fights I lose, some fights i give up, some fights I win and I love it.

Sorry I guess. I tend to think more in terms of tournament play and meta comps rather than limited to ranked queue. What I said is true. Taking it and applying it to a different situation that it is intended for doesn’t make it false, it’s just flawed reasoning.

As for saying it’s good because of points and how you felt it went in a particular match, I could say I just had matches vs both S/D and staff thieves and they didn’t stand a chance (I actually just did), but that doesn’t mean anything other than you and or your team is better than that particular individual or team. There are so many complaints of complete fools in queue, anyone can walk all over that sort and then say "it proves my build is amazing!"

Anyway, S/D is subpar to D/P. D/P can interrupt on demand, blind a big hit causing it to miss everyone as opposed to evading it for yourself, and it has stealth, which vs a coordinated and aware team, is very strong for deception. Are you going to push the point or are you just making them think that while going elsewhere achieving an out number while someone wastes time guarding the point. Are you sitting in stealth about to spike someone, or did you pull off? S/D will be seen unless it can both get a cloak and dagger off, and get out of sight within 3 seconds immediately after. And as for superior mobility, with infiltrator’s return, yes. It can be very effective, but it’s not always possible to use it to pull off or get a quick instant decap because of the 15s limit, and it means it’s not close by to instantly port back in if you had to use it early, resulting in less in-fight mobility. Shadow shot can serve for mobility as well, remember, and it comes with higher damage, and a blind. Last but not least, you can help allies escape or gank by going to them, dropping black powder and blinding powder (for a quick escape) and blasting it additionally with cluster bomb (to stack for a gank).

The hell is wrong with people? Thief has always been able to play in pvp (fair enough last few months were hard but still playable) people need to stop being bt hurt or stop feeling sorry for then self’s of the class and just adapt to a changing game, and what a change! Tbh though i found strong hold is the map to have the most fun on as a thief.

With how much time I spend on the board, I’m surprised I’m labelled as >10 hours a week. Also, like Zero said if the .0001% is so good they get top play, they can adapt to a meta of massive change- no? If not, then they aren’t good, they just found ONE spec that works. Which is toxic.

Also- D/p is better than S/d. Sorry to bust the bubble. Dagger auto applies faster and does higher spike. Dagger auto chains are more reliable, can be filled easily without losing pressure and more simple in execution. D/p has higher burst. D/p has higher control. D/p has higher pressure. S/d auto chain is low, it is taken specifically for boon and condi heavy metas when and only when it is strong. Right now (despite this being the perfect meta), it is far too weak to take the mantle. It wouldn’t take much to fix it, but PTSD of players denies the possibility.

Ok, we’re a bunch or weirdos, I guess on that we can all agree.
Most of you play pvp, I guess I might be the only one that plays (only) wvw.
There’s S/D thieves, D/D, Staff, D/P and occassionally a P/D or P/P- we all need different things to make our builds work. So we clashed a lot before and after June but at some point found some consens.
That consens would be: D/D thief needs blind in their traits, S/D needs an extra dodge, P/D needs AoE on their pistols. All thieves need reliable condi removal which currently isn’t given, and I still struggle a lot with immobilize since that isn’t cleared by SE anymore.
Another thing we agreed on after a while is that most if not all classes had a powercreep while thief remained pretty much stagnant.
Also the merge of the traits of other classes meant more invulnerabilities for them which again is bad for every thief.
Also we agreed at some point that almost every thief needs stealth, so revealed skills are really bad – the builds that come by without stealth are staff and S/D.

So we know what is wrong with thief but not how to fix it and that is something anet should do as they should have the knowledge to see how all classes work together and I guess that even the top 0,00001% of players don’t have that knowledge.

Edit: Spelling

Impact.2780:

Sandrox.9524:

Impact.2780:

Arlowslol.1974:

Sandrox.9524:

I play DD s/d thief atm and I find it very strong. especially in Stronghold mode when you have alot of space to manuver.

I play this a lot and it is the most useless build.

you just run away ,run away, and run away. if you dont ,you got kill even by SA dp thief.

It’s a missleading build. It’s basically a win-more build. If your team is stronger than the opposing, you will feel as though you’re god mode, nothing can touch you, you’re pushing out great damage. If your team is equal, you will bring less than a d/p thief, will get pressured out of team fights, and have a hard time of the smaller fights when stalked by the other team’s D/P thief. If your team is weaker, you’ll zip about staying alive maybe getting some sneaky decaps and feel like you’re the only good player there.

This is coming from someone who stuck with S/D right up to and a bit beyond the elite specialisations, where I finally had to concede defeat because the vigor changes made my DA/CS/Trick build need Acro, which resulted in having less damage than the easier and less riskier DA/Trick/SA. Unfortunately S/D still doesn’t bring any significant advantages over D/P again. It used to be able to fight longer, therefore out damaging, and with the old CS it had more damage anyway, but now it can’t fight as long, when it does it’s because it’s not dealing damage, and once the fight is lost due to being effectively down half a player, the S/D thief has to run away but can’t get a decap or anything because it doesn’t have enough stealth, and will be followed and out rotated. Although on that last point, in solo queue again, it’s missleading because most there won’t have half a clue. Sometimes they’ll even let you walk right past them to decap.

Im not even sure how you came up with thing that s/d is subpar to d/p. On 1v1 it might be true but this game is not about 1v1 and mobility is the best virtue of a s/d thief and with DD im controling the fights, I pick the one I want and im doing immense dmg to a not bunker-ish builds. We had a match the other day me and my friend we had 250+ score each one while all our teammates had 20 to 50 score we won against pvp guild(although it was on stronghold). d/p might be the better spec to play, but s/d is far from not viable or not remotly close to d/p level. sayin know I will kill, some fights I lose, some fights i give up, some fights I win and I love it.

Sorry I guess. I tend to think more in terms of tournament play and meta comps rather than limited to ranked queue. What I said is true. Taking it and applying it to a different situation that it is intended for doesn’t make it false, it’s just flawed reasoning.

As for saying it’s good because of points and how you felt it went in a particular match, I could say I just had matches vs both S/D and staff thieves and they didn’t stand a chance (I actually just did), but that doesn’t mean anything other than you and or your team is better than that particular individual or team. There are so many complaints of complete fools in queue, anyone can walk all over that sort and then say “it proves my build is amazing!”

Anyway, S/D is subpar to D/P. D/P can interrupt on demand, blind a big hit causing it to miss everyone as opposed to evading it for yourself, and it has stealth, which vs a coordinated and aware team, is very strong for deception. Are you going to push the point or are you just making them think that while going elsewhere achieving an out number while someone wastes time guarding the point. Are you sitting in stealth about to spike someone, or did you pull off? S/D will be seen unless it can both get a cloak and dagger off, and get out of sight within 3 seconds immediately after. And as for superior mobility, with infiltrator’s return, yes. It can be very effective, but it’s not always possible to use it to pull off or get a quick instant decap because of the 15s limit, and it means it’s not close by to instantly port back in if you had to use it early, resulting in less in-fight mobility. Shadow shot can serve for mobility as well, remember, and it comes with higher damage, and a blind. Last but not least, you can help allies escape or gank by going to them, dropping black powder and blinding powder (for a quick escape) and blasting it additionally with cluster bomb (to stack for a gank).

You have almost infinite signet of infiltration. if you know that you dont need to return, just jump before you use the skill. Shadow shot need to be in range and need to hit. 3 sec as DD with the swiftness dash is enough to get from close to mid.

I know d/p is best and much more suitable. but s/d is not far behind and offer other things like boonripping and the best mobility ingame.

You babling about tournaments yet Sizer was s/d and he was on tournaments even though d/p was still the meta. He may stopped playing cuz of all the nerfs, but it doesnt mean this spec is not viable.

s/d is pure win in sPvP, ull run over 90% of random meta Thief scrubs..

tho i havent done any sPvP since update since i dont have HoT

Sandrox.9524:

You babling about tournaments yet Sizer was s/d and he was on tournaments even though d/p was still the meta. He may stopped playing cuz of all the nerfs, but it doesnt mean this spec is not viable.

He’s back.

In general I still find it fine. So many newbies to kill.

I would hate to lessen the valid points thief mains have, as I am one and this class is THE most nerfed in the game but overall I still find sPvP enjoyable and feel relevant. High tier may disagree but I don’t play there.

In saying I mained a Sin in GW1, maybe I’m just older and wiser with a major side of tolerance.

Jana.6831:

Ok, we’re a bunch or weirdos, I guess on that we can all agree.
Most of you play pvp, I guess I might be the only one that plays (only) wvw.
There’s S/D thieves, D/D, Staff, D/P and occassionally a P/D or P/P- we all need different things to make our builds work. So we clashed a lot before and after June but at some point found some consens.
That consens would be: D/D thief needs blind in their traits, S/D needs an extra dodge, P/D needs AoE on their pistols. All thieves need reliable condi removal which currently isn’t given, and I still struggle a lot with immobilize since that isn’t cleared by SE anymore.
Another thing we agreed on after a while is that most if not all classes had a powercreep while thief remained pretty much stagnant.
Also the merge of the traits of other classes meant more invulnerabilities for them which again is bad for every thief.
Also we agreed at some point that almost every thief needs stealth, so revealed skills are really bad – the builds that come by without stealth are staff and S/D.

So we know what is wrong with thief but not how to fix it and that is something anet should do as they should have the knowledge to see how all classes work together and I guess that even the top 0,00001% of players don’t have that knowledge.

Edit: Spelling

The problem of sd is not the extra dodge, with DD trait , dodge is pretty good.

the most important things is damage.

not only Larcenous Strike, even sword#1 is bad.

sd is better than dd, but dp eat all of us.

and sizer, I think this is the worst time in his sd’s life

Arlowslol.1974:

The problem of sd is not the extra dodge, with DD trait , dodge is pretty good.

the most important things is damage.

not only Larcenous Strike, even sword#1 is bad.

sd is better than dd, but dp eat all of us.

and sizer, I think this is the worst time in his sd’s life

I took the consens from before HoT – so yes with DD S/D has become viable again, probably, i’m still not Hot.
I just checked his twitch yesterday, don’t know which build he’s running, I guess something with DD. He definitively was gone, so I guess the worst time is already behind him.

Sandrox.9524:

Impact.2780:

Sandrox.9524:

Impact.2780:

Arlowslol.1974:

Sandrox.9524:

I play DD s/d thief atm and I find it very strong. especially in Stronghold mode when you have alot of space to manuver.

I play this a lot and it is the most useless build.

you just run away ,run away, and run away. if you dont ,you got kill even by SA dp thief.

It’s a missleading build. It’s basically a win-more build. If your team is stronger than the opposing, you will feel as though you’re god mode, nothing can touch you, you’re pushing out great damage. If your team is equal, you will bring less than a d/p thief, will get pressured out of team fights, and have a hard time of the smaller fights when stalked by the other team’s D/P thief. If your team is weaker, you’ll zip about staying alive maybe getting some sneaky decaps and feel like you’re the only good player there.

This is coming from someone who stuck with S/D right up to and a bit beyond the elite specialisations, where I finally had to concede defeat because the vigor changes made my DA/CS/Trick build need Acro, which resulted in having less damage than the easier and less riskier DA/Trick/SA. Unfortunately S/D still doesn’t bring any significant advantages over D/P again. It used to be able to fight longer, therefore out damaging, and with the old CS it had more damage anyway, but now it can’t fight as long, when it does it’s because it’s not dealing damage, and once the fight is lost due to being effectively down half a player, the S/D thief has to run away but can’t get a decap or anything because it doesn’t have enough stealth, and will be followed and out rotated. Although on that last point, in solo queue again, it’s missleading because most there won’t have half a clue. Sometimes they’ll even let you walk right past them to decap.

Im not even sure how you came up with thing that s/d is subpar to d/p. On 1v1 it might be true but this game is not about 1v1 and mobility is the best virtue of a s/d thief and with DD im controling the fights, I pick the one I want and im doing immense dmg to a not bunker-ish builds. We had a match the other day me and my friend we had 250+ score each one while all our teammates had 20 to 50 score we won against pvp guild(although it was on stronghold). d/p might be the better spec to play, but s/d is far from not viable or not remotly close to d/p level. sayin know I will kill, some fights I lose, some fights i give up, some fights I win and I love it.

Sorry I guess. I tend to think more in terms of tournament play and meta comps rather than limited to ranked queue. What I said is true. Taking it and applying it to a different situation that it is intended for doesn’t make it false, it’s just flawed reasoning.

As for saying it’s good because of points and how you felt it went in a particular match, I could say I just had matches vs both S/D and staff thieves and they didn’t stand a chance (I actually just did), but that doesn’t mean anything other than you and or your team is better than that particular individual or team. There are so many complaints of complete fools in queue, anyone can walk all over that sort and then say "it proves my build is amazing!"

Anyway, S/D is subpar to D/P. D/P can interrupt on demand, blind a big hit causing it to miss everyone as opposed to evading it for yourself, and it has stealth, which vs a coordinated and aware team, is very strong for deception. Are you going to push the point or are you just making them think that while going elsewhere achieving an out number while someone wastes time guarding the point. Are you sitting in stealth about to spike someone, or did you pull off? S/D will be seen unless it can both get a cloak and dagger off, and get out of sight within 3 seconds immediately after. And as for superior mobility, with infiltrator’s return, yes. It can be very effective, but it’s not always possible to use it to pull off or get a quick instant decap because of the 15s limit, and it means it’s not close by to instantly port back in if you had to use it early, resulting in less in-fight mobility. Shadow shot can serve for mobility as well, remember, and it comes with higher damage, and a blind. Last but not least, you can help allies escape or gank by going to them, dropping black powder and blinding powder (for a quick escape) and blasting it additionally with cluster bomb (to stack for a gank).

You have almost infinite signet of infiltration. if you know that you dont need to return, just jump before you use the skill. Shadow shot need to be in range and need to hit. 3 sec as DD with the swiftness dash is enough to get from close to mid.

I know d/p is best and much more suitable. but s/d is not far behind and offer other things like boonripping and the best mobility ingame.

You babling about tournaments yet Sizer was s/d and he was on tournaments even though d/p was still the meta. He may stopped playing cuz of all the nerfs, but it doesnt mean this spec is not viable.

My whole point was D/P is superior in response to you saying you don’t know how I arrived at the conclusion of S/D being subpar to it, now you’re arguing again while saying you know D/P is best and more suitable. Why? You just agreed.

Now, why are tournaments from 1 ,2 and 3 metas ago relevant to points raised regarding this new meta? It’s not. However, I guess you missed the part about me maining S/D up until the specialisation changes. That was some time after S/D fell from meta and Sizer got kicked from his team. Yes, S/D WAS meta alongside D/P, then the community decided it was no longer good enough. Since then, some S/D thieves - myself included - tried to make it work. Sizer wasn’t really one of them, since he kept giving up damage going more toward some sort of 1v1 neut-holder which is basically a squishier decap engi that can’t hold vs 2 or 3, and can’t decap with someone on it. Decap engi is bad for a comp; I’m using it to make a point.