Guild Wars 2

So I just got out of a dungeon run where the guardian in the group started flaming me for running the Sword/Pistol meta build. He was under the impression that sword/pistol did completely worthless damage and that I should be using dagger/dagger.

Now I am fully aware of the advantages and disadvantages of both builds, something which causes me to use sword/pistol more often than dagger/dagger. What I am wondering is: where did his misunderstanding come from? Is this something that a lot of people actually believe?

Just to clarify for people who may not understand thieves: Sword Pistol is a perfectly viable alternative to dagger/dagger, as is stated here:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Thief_-_D/D_S/P_Shortbow

Yes, under ideal conditions you will do more damage with dagger/dagger. I use sword/pistol more often because it has more survivability (all your dammage means diddly-poop if you spend more time in the downed state than hitting the boss), more cleave, consistent and readily available smoke fields to increase group survivability or stealth without wasting Shadow refuge, and still does a lot of damage. My pistol whip hits for 15-20k damage every time, and I am able to spam in non-stop during a fight. Not to mention, there are a lot of boss fights where it is simply not advisable or possible to get consistent back-stabs throughout the fight, subject Alpha for example.

In short, sword/pistol just has more utility than dagger/dagger, which I find far more useful in a dungeon group than just high-damage. Especially pug groups.

Please people, don’t criticize people for using a build if you haven’t done your homework on that build.

He was probably just ignorant about thief. I use S/P in every game mode. I really prefer it over d/d in dungeons and fractals for all those reasons you specified.

It’s really his issue.

I use S/P for the majority of a Dungeon/Fractal Run because of the simple fact that the Pistol Whip cleave damage is amazing against groups of mobs.
In the scenario where you need the single target damage, I do play D/D.
S/P is actually also good for single target, especially if you’re new(er) to Thief.

But yeah, you’ll ideally be switching Weapons, Traits and Utilities several times per dungeon to min-max your efficiency. Not like you can’t just run S/ and still be efficient.

I’d say it’s really just his issue and his incompetence, don’t fuss over it.

Gern.2978:

Yes, under ideal conditions you will do more damage with dagger/dagger. I use sword/pistol more often because it has more survivability (all your dammage means diddly-poop if you spend more time in the downed state than hitting the boss)

This really depends on your group composition. When a Guardian tells you to switch it really means that your DPS sucks and he has to tank/heal longer than expected.

And when you go down, it is the Guardian’s fault — but for overall damage, D/D beats S/P.

, more cleave

Dagger cleaves too.

, consistent and readily available smoke fields to increase group survivability

It’s not necessary. You are in a dungeon group where your primary role is to have the highest DPS. Leave the support and survivability to other professions in your group. With S/P, you get too distracted on survival that your DPS suffers. D/D helps you focus on your role in a group.

or stealth without wasting Shadow refuge

How do you do that with S/P? Is that something new to the Thief?

, and still does a lot of damage.

No it doesn’t. It has been proven time and time again that due to Sword’s slow attack speed that it can never compare to Dagger in DPS.

So no, believing that you do “lot of damage” only means that you’re fooling yourself. Don’t do that.

My pistol whip hits for 15-20k damage every time,

Where you ca hit even more for the same Initiative cost. Not to mention, when your target falls below 50%, there’s nothing can compare to the DPS of Heartseeker.

and I am able to spam in non-stop during a fight.

Wishful thinking. No Thief skill is spammable.

Not to mention, there are a lot of boss fights where it is simply not advisable or possible to get consistent back-stabs throughout the fight, subject Alpha for example.

Only then you swap to a weapon set that is appropriate to the fight…and no, S/P is not appropriate to every fight.

In short, sword/pistol just has more utility than dagger/dagger, which I find far more useful in a dungeon group than just high-damage. Especially pug groups.

It seems that you already have made up your mind, so what exactly do you want out of this discussion?

I would have to say that the Guardian is right to call you on your poor choice of weapon set.

Please people, don’t criticize people for using a build if you haven’t done your homework on that build.

They don’t really need to know your build, in fact, they could care less.

What’s important is, if you queued to be a DPS, you better bring in the DPS skills…not support skill. If I want support in my party, I would want a Guardian or Elementalist, not Thief.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

or stealth without wasting Shadow refuge

How do you do that with S/P? Is that something new to the Thief?

That’s really all I needed to read to know that you don’t understand how to play thief.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

and I am able to spam in non-stop during a fight.

Wishful thinking. No Thief skill is spammable.

This too.

All thief weapon skills are spammable. The only limiting factor is your initiative. And with Infiltrator’s signet, you regen most of your initiative from “Pistol Whip” by the time you are finished channeling it.

As far as gaining group stealth with S/P: You put down “Black Powder” and then you and your group blasts it for group stealth.

Please play a thief for a while, take them in dungeons and learn their different builds before you criticize thief players or tell them how to play it.

Gern.2978:

Just to clarify for people who may not understand thieves: Sword Pistol is a perfectly viable alternative to dagger/dagger, as is stated here:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Thief_-_D/D_S/P_Shortbow

For the build you’re using, you’re expected to swap between S/P and D/D depending upon the number of targets you’re faced with. 3+ targets and S/P becomes the better option. Just 1-2? Stick with dagger. You don’t much need to spam initiate-burning skills (D/D’s auto should do just fine), at least until something’s health gets into the Heartseeker spamming range.

You are supposed to be using the D/D rotation against a single target. The DPS output for that is much larger and practically defines your role, especially as the target begins to reach the thresholds for Heartseeker. Not only is Sword DPS lower, it’s also hungrier if you’re going to spam Pistol Whip as you say you do. Sir Vincent is right – you cannot spam Pistol Whip during a multi-minute boss fight literally non-stop – it is mathematically impossible even with maxed Trickery, Opportunist and all the Signets in the world. Even within the space of 30-45 seconds you are going to stop consistently maintaining the First Strikes damage boost, which only serves to increase the gap between Sword and Dagger damage.

Exactly what utility does S/P bring against a boss that warrants sacrificing damage for? Defiant stripping for Ice Bow? That’s going away soon, and you’re meant to have D/P + D/D in those situations so you can get the stacks off while maintaining the dagger damage. Evades? D/D gives back endurance on Wild Strike and that should be plenty, not to mention C+D allows very easy repositioning and aggro management should a boss turn to you. Blinds? Unshakable ignores blind at a 90% rate (and will ignore it completely when the rework hits). Smoke to swap to Shortbow and blast for a Stealth revive? Out of range, sure, but in a fight where somebody has gone down, chances are they are still in line of fire of the boss and attempting to blast will reveal you instantly.

So yes, for everything except bosses S/P is fine and preferable, particularly in big trash fights. For bosses it should only be a learning tool. Aside from that, if you need group Stealth out of combat, you only need to swap to the off-hand Pistol for a few seconds to get your blasts off. There is no need to stick to S/P the entire time.

I’d also like to know why Subject Alpha is un-backstabbable, because I’ve been slaughtering him without issue every time we run CoE, exclusively using D/D. In fact, there is not a single boss in the game that I can imagine that you cannot Backstab reliably. Even the Archdiviner can’t keep up with Wild Strike and Agility Signet’s endurance gain and C+D allows easy repositioning. If people are stacking bosses up against walls, they need to catch up because it’s not 2012 and Fiery Greatsword isn’t a thing anymore.

When it comes to dungeons, if someone tells you to do something, you really need to think about what they are saying and not take it as a personal attack. You are in a team setting, and if you are not being a team player…. well….. I can understand their frustration.

Last night I was in a dungeon with a Necro and I was asking him to manage the parties conditions. He informed me the Necro can’t because they don’t have any cond cleansing skills.
Oh, okay then.
Not only that, but the 700AP guy, who claimed it was his second account, goes on to tell me he has constant burning on him and I don’t because I block burning. I told him I have 0 blocks. Well it’s because my toughness is so high and toughness is an auto block for conditions.

At that point I left the party.

I’m not sure if most people realise by now, but GW2 allows you to equip two weapon slots. TWO@!!>#

Equip both S/P and D/D.
Use S/P for trash mobs, but honestly you’re just using this for the pistol offhand.
Use D/D for bosses.

is PvE still that hard for some people?

on a sidenote: unless some things have changed for thief/PvE, Sword and Dagger autoattacks are about the same in DPS. Dagger just outshines with backstab and heartseeker.

http://dulfy.net/2014/07/10/gw2-thief-pve-class-guide/

S/P or D/P for trash mobs, SB for utility and stealth spamming, and D/D for bosses.

Gern.2978:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

or stealth without wasting Shadow refuge

How do you do that with S/P? Is that something new to the Thief?

That’s really all I needed to read to know that you don’t understand how to play thief.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

and I am able to spam in non-stop during a fight.

Wishful thinking. No Thief skill is spammable.

This too.

All thief weapon skills are spammable. The only limiting factor is your initiative. And with Infiltrator’s signet, you regen most of your initiative from “Pistol Whip” by the time you are finished channeling it.

Mathematically impossible. If you can show the math that it is “spammable” then I will believe you.

As far as gaining group stealth with S/P: You put down “Black Powder” and then you and your group blasts it for group stealth.

Ah, so it wasn’t S/P specific then. Even a P/P and D/P can do it. If that is the case, then it is not a good reason in the first place.

Please play a thief for a while, take them in dungeons and learn their different builds before you criticize thief players or tell them how to play it.

I’ll just repeat myself here;

Sir Vincent III.1286:

They don’t really need to know your build, in fact, they could care less.

What’s important is, if you queued to be a DPS, you better bring in the DPS skills…not support skill. If I want support in my party, I would want a Guardian or Elementalist, not Thief.

Sir Vincent III

You can spam PW, but not with the best dps build. Anyway, you can still do 2 PW, then alternate between PW and Auto-attack to keep your initiative higher than 6 all the time.

A Sword/Pistol thief alternating between AA and PW will do around 75% of the damage of a D/D thief against a single target. That’s significantly less and in those situation, D/D is always better. But only the auto-attack cleave on a D/D on only on 2 targets. So against 2 targets, a S/P thief will do around the same damage total than a D/D. Against 3 targets? The S/P thief will do 150% the dps of a D/D Thief.

Now it’s clear that a D/D is better against single target and S/P is better against group of mobs. Ideally, you should switch around weapons between fight with S/P for the dungeon and D/D against bosses. But we rarely do that, we usually stick to one build in one dungeon (depending on the person). At this point, both are equally good in the run of a complete dungeon.

Auesis.7301:

If people are stacking bosses up against walls, they need to catch up because it’s not 2012 and Fiery Greatsword isn’t a thing anymore.

I wish more groups would keep this in mind. A lot of dungeon runners are still in the habit of backing a boss up against a wall to pummel it to death. As a thief, this is frustrating because they are limiting my ability to do what the group wants of me, can’t exactly backstab when there isn’t much of a back/side to stab.

I find most of my groups won’t take the time to stop and let someone swap weapons, you run/skip/kill and keep going. So I tend to run with D/P and if I can make it before they start in on the boss, I’ll swap to D/D. Yeah, Sword cleaves one more than the dagger, but I find Heartseeker to be more useful to me than the Infiltrator’s Strike (Pistol Whip is nice…spamming it isn’t a good idea and will make the Ice Bow using Ele angry when you kitten up the stacks…defiance bar might make this less of a problem though). I have 4 other people who usually can cleave, so me not hitting one trash by using D over S isn’t going to make that much of a difference for me to take the time to swap it out.

In the end, it comes down to your choice and if the group wants to keep you around. You probably should have swapped to D/D on bosses…but I think the guardian could have been a little nicer about it.

Thaddeus.4891:

Sir Vincent III

You can spam PW, but not with the best dps build. Anyway, you can still do 2 PW, then alternate between PW and Auto-attack to keep your initiative higher than 6 all the time.

If that’s how you define spamming, then sure why not.

rabidsmiles.5926:

I find most of my groups won’t take the time to stop and let someone swap weapons, you run/skip/kill and keep going. So I tend to run with D/P and if I can make it before they start in on the boss, I’ll swap to D/D. Yeah, Sword cleaves one more than the dagger, but I find Heartseeker to be more useful to me than the Infiltrator’s Strike (Pistol Whip is nice…spamming it isn’t a good idea and will make the Ice Bow using Ele angry when you kitten up the stacks…defiance bar might make this less of a problem though).

Using D/P in a dungeon never made sense to me.
D/D = ~4 k CnD and you’re stealthed within a second, with D/P you have to use infiltrators strike to do some extra damage, make a smoke field (which might interfer with someone) and have to use heartseeker before you can do a backstab.
I do use S/P, especially in lvl 35 (or 34?) fractals in which no poison should be used and especially in the hammer fractal, no matter the level. I never threw the enemies around, they stay at one place – and coupled with Signet of Malice I can keep my group alive.
I carry all weapons with me and swap before each fight (I get that it’s sometimes impossible). But I either use D/D, S/P, P/P and always SB as my second.

I don’t think that in this case the OP really was the one messing everything up, even if D/D is a notch better against single targets, I guess the party had other problems.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Thaddeus.4891:

Sir Vincent III

You can spam PW, but not with the best dps build. Anyway, you can still do 2 PW, then alternate between PW and Auto-attack to keep your initiative higher than 6 all the time.

If that’s how you define spamming, then sure why not.

No no. I’m saying two thing here. First it is spammable but for that you need a special build, which won’t be optimal in dps. It’s doable, but not a good idea.

Second, with the meta build using S/P the best rotation would be 2 PW, then alternate between auto-attack and PW.

Jana.6831:

Using D/P in a dungeon never made sense to me.
D/D = ~4 k CnD and you’re stealthed within a second, with D/P you have to use infiltrators strike to do some extra damage, make a smoke field (which might interfer with someone) and have to use heartseeker before you can do a backstab.
I do use S/P, especially in lvl 35 (or 34?) fractals in which no poison should be used and especially in the hammer fractal, no matter the level. I never threw the enemies around, they stay at one place – and coupled with Signet of Malice I can keep my group alive.
I carry all weapons with me and swap before each fight (I get that it’s sometimes impossible). But I either use D/D, S/P, P/P and always SB as my second.

I don’t think that in this case the OP really was the one messing everything up, even if D/D is a notch better against single targets, I guess the party had other problems.

Well, I prefer the D/P over the S/P set, but I’ll take the D/D over the /P any day for bosses. When trash clearing is when the /P comes out, never for bosses if I can help it. Harder to backstab for sure with /P! /P gives the nice AoE blind, and most groups expect you to run D/P for the trash clears and swap to D/D on bosses. Depends on if you are quick enough before they go ham on the boss to get your /P swapped out…I really wish they’d let us set a weapon as being always off hand, would make it easier to just double click and not worry about it replacing your main hand. Sometimes that extra half a second I need to right click and swap to /D isn’t there with a Leroy Jenkins sort of party.

I don’t find the S/ to give any benefit, beyond the one condi clear and the extra cleave, over the D/. I’d prefer to have the ability to get stealth if I need it. I keep one in my bag though, incase someone wants me to run S/.

rabidsmiles.5926:

Well, I prefer the D/P over the S/P set, but I’ll take the D/D over the /P any day for bosses. When trash clearing is when the /P comes out, never for bosses if I can help it.

Others have already explained that dagger mainhand doesn’t do too much damage against more than one target, coupled with the clunkiness of stealthing with D/P – I wouldn’t be too surprised if someone calls you out on that. S/P is fine in my book, even against single targets- unless I want a real speedrun group. (The ones advertising in LFG aren’t)

rabidsmiles.5926:

I don’t find the S/ to give any benefit, beyond the one condi clear and the extra cleave, over the D/. I’d prefer to have the ability to get stealth if I need it. I keep one in my bag though, incase someone wants me to run S/.

It does – you can keep mobs in place which is nice in some fractals, you interrupt rather automatically and you can also use your smoke field. D/P in dungeons/fractals makes no sense at all.

Here the comparison of the DPS of D/P, S/P and D/D. Keep in mind that I didn’t took into account the use of Smokescreen or Blinding Powder, which could increase the dps on D/D and D/P for a initiative free backstab (BP) or 2 backstab that only cost 3 initiative (Smokescreen).

Single Target
D/D : 100%
S/P : 75%
D/P : 70%

Two Targets
D/D : 100%
S/P : 100%
D/P : 74%

3+ Targets
S/P : 150%
D/D : 100%
D/P : 38%

If you look at the dps only, there is NO reason whatsoever to take D/P. We could argue that you may need the defiance management capability of Headshot or the blind from Black Powder, but then S/P can do the same with a better dps. Still, like I said. Since I didn’t took into account Blinding Power or Smokescreen, the actual DPS or D/P vs S/P against a single target should be pretty close and D/P may even be better.

In the end, there is only one type of situation where D/P is worth using. A single boss where Headshot (defiance management) or Black Powder (AoE Blind) is important to the fight.

Thaddeus.4891:

Single Target
D/D : 100%
S/P : 75%
D/P : 70%

Has this been validated? I’m not questioning D/D’s superiority but I’d love to see actual numbers.

Be careful using Pistol Whip, defiance stacks can upset people. I’ve recently returned to the game after a long while, didn’t realize that Pistol Whip added Defiance and stopped the Ice Bow from freezing the boss. Luckily I was in a guild group at the time where they kindly schooled me in the pros n cons of S/P. Could that be why the Guardian came after you?

You are totally right about PW and defiant stack. You need to be aware of that when you use it. I usually prefer S/P against group of mobs (which usually don’t have defiant) and D/D against boss (which usually have defiant), so the problem never really happen to me. But yes, if you want to keep S/P for the whole dungeon and there is a elementalist in your group you may want to coordinate with him for frostbow for the start of the fight.

I didn’t posted the numbers because they depend on what buff you have. I found it more interesting to see the difference in percentage. I don’t have the numbers for the D/D and S/P with me right now but here the numbers for D/P. That include fully ascended + mighty infusion + 25 stack of vulnerability + 25 stack of might + fury + Empowered Allies + Double banners + sigil of force + sigil of night + potion + buttersquash. No rangers. The rotation is around 30 second long and count 4 Black Powder + HS + Backstab and 9 auto-attack chain. I counted the first 2 HS with coefficient of 1, the 3rd HS with a coefficient of 1.5 and the last HS with a coefficient of 2. To simulate like if the thief was fighting a boss in 30sec. This can vary from one encounter to another. I had to make a choice.

That’s the contribution of each attack to the global dps.

AA : 6 473 dps (can hit up to 2 targets)
HS : 1 750 dps (can only hit one target)
Black Powder : 303 dps (can hit up to 5 targets)
Backstab : 3 212 dps (can only hit one target)

So for one target you add all 4 = 11 738 dps
2 targets you add twice the AA and BP, but only once the backstab and HS = 18 515 dps
For 3 targets and more the difference is marginal.

Thaddeus.4891:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Thaddeus.4891:

Sir Vincent III

You can spam PW, but not with the best dps build. Anyway, you can still do 2 PW, then alternate between PW and Auto-attack to keep your initiative higher than 6 all the time.

If that’s how you define spamming, then sure why not.

No no. I’m saying two thing here. First it is spammable but for that you need a special build, which won’t be optimal in dps. It’s doable, but not a good idea.

Second, with the meta build using S/P the best rotation would be 2 PW, then alternate between auto-attack and PW.

Then it’s counterintuitive.

The main purpose of spamming a skill is because it brings high DPS for a low cost, just like how we spam Heartseeker on a 25% health target.

If the purpose of your build is to spam PW at a cost of damage output…well, that’s a whole new level of bad judgement or bad math. Because in that case, Dagger autoattack will out DPS PW.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Thaddeus.4891:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Thaddeus.4891:

Sir Vincent III

You can spam PW, but not with the best dps build. Anyway, you can still do 2 PW, then alternate between PW and Auto-attack to keep your initiative higher than 6 all the time.

If that’s how you define spamming, then sure why not.

No no. I’m saying two thing here. First it is spammable but for that you need a special build, which won’t be optimal in dps. It’s doable, but not a good idea.

Second, with the meta build using S/P the best rotation would be 2 PW, then alternate between auto-attack and PW.

Then it’s counterintuitive.

The main purpose of spamming a skill is because it brings high DPS for a low cost, just like how we spam Heartseeker on a 25% health target.

If the purpose of your build is to spam PW at a cost of damage output…well, that’s a whole new level of bad judgement or bad math. Because in that case, Dagger autoattack will out DPS PW.

What are you talking about? I don’t have any build, even less a build with the purpose of spamming PW. Dude i clearly divide those two issue, can’t you read?

1) FIRST ISSUE : Yes you can spam, but that’s not a good idea because you need to butcher your damage modifier for that.

2) SECOND ISSUE : With a normal S/P build you can’t spam the skill, you need to alternate between PW and AA and compare to a D/D that give you less dps against 1 target, equal dps against 2 targets and more dps against 3 targets.

Thaddeus.4891:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Thaddeus.4891:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Thaddeus.4891:

Sir Vincent III

You can spam PW, but not with the best dps build. Anyway, you can still do 2 PW, then alternate between PW and Auto-attack to keep your initiative higher than 6 all the time.

If that’s how you define spamming, then sure why not.

No no. I’m saying two thing here. First it is spammable but for that you need a special build, which won’t be optimal in dps. It’s doable, but not a good idea.

Second, with the meta build using S/P the best rotation would be 2 PW, then alternate between auto-attack and PW.

Then it’s counterintuitive.

The main purpose of spamming a skill is because it brings high DPS for a low cost, just like how we spam Heartseeker on a 25% health target.

If the purpose of your build is to spam PW at a cost of damage output…well, that’s a whole new level of bad judgement or bad math. Because in that case, Dagger autoattack will out DPS PW.

What are you talking about? I don’t have any build, even less a build with the purpose of spamming PW. Dude i clearly divide those two issue, can’t you read?

1) FIRST ISSUE : Yes you can spam, but that’s not a good idea because you need to butcher your damage modifier for that.

Like I said. The main purpose of spamming a skill is because it is cost effective that bring in high damage.

2) SECOND ISSUE : With a normal S/P build you can’t spam the skill, you need to alternate between PW and AA and compare to a D/D that give you less dps against 1 target, equal dps against 2 targets and more dps against 3 targets.

This is irrelevant when talking about spamming, thus it is not the issue.

D/D can bring in a lot of DPS also to multiple targets by alternating Death Blossom and AA.

The main issue with PW is that it roots you and more often with multiple targets, you won’t even hit all of them for the full duration. Once D/D applied bleeds, it doesn’t matter where the target goes, it will take damage.

I personally prefer D/D for the Death Blossom skill, however I believe the Flanking Strike almost makes S/D worth it. If you really want DPS go P/P or Shortbow. Unload has major damage against one enemy (a boss) and Shortbow causes explosions. EXPLOSIONS…Need I say more?

OP is talking about a pug.
S/P will do fine, you will probably have more DPS (with meta build ofcourse) than most pugs you will encounter. Yes D/D might have slightly higher DPS, but that doesnt make S/P any less viable.

If it works for you, go for it. If the pugs force you to run D/D while you want to keep S/P, leave them and let them waste more minutes finding a new pug than your damage loss wouldve cost them. This game is all about fun.

I tend to use s/p primarily in dungeons regardless of single or multi target encounters just because its utility and ease of use (I don’t do dungeons to be kool). That being said, d/x (more so d/d) has its advantages against single targets with the right build. On my build 0/6/0/4/4/0 for how short most fights last, I can use pw the entire time and channel some devastating numbers. Ranged is the only type of encounters I will generally swap up my entire build but for melee purposes, I just hurr durr my way to the daily chest.

If a player wants to flame at you for taking 60 seconds longer for a dungeon run because you didn’t maximize your benefit to the party, don’t let it get to you. They obviously have nothing better to do but this game.

Meryn.6875:

Yes D/D might have slightly higher DPS, but that doesnt make S/P any less viable.

Right. It comes down to your party comp and when your party prefer that you use D/D, you have to comply for the good of the run.

If it works for you, go for it. If the pugs force you to run D/D while you want to keep S/P, leave them and let them waste more minutes finding a new pug than your damage loss wouldve cost them. This game is all about fun.

I don’t know about that. It’s easier to find another DPS than to find a new party.

I encounter this problem sometimes, too.

The biggest issue I’ve always had with running D/D 6/6/2/0/0 builds is that it just doesn’t survive that well. I have to hope that bosses don’t preferentially target me or I can stay behind the mob to avoid cleave. When that happens, sure it does a ridiculous amount of damage. But too often I find myself kissing pavement because I’ve run out of dodges.

S/P and S/D are great for survival. They have longer dodge times, weakness on auto attack, and a built in condi cleanse. S/D can tear boons, and S/P can blind mobs and combo stealth.

It is one of the issues I’ve noticed with meta builds. They operate under the assumption that everyone else on the team is also running a meta build and doing meta strats. If they aren’t, then the weaknesses of meta builds start to shine through.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Right. It comes down to your party comp and when your party prefer that you use D/D, you have to comply for the good of the run.

No you don’t have to comply. I run D/D because I like being efficient and if someone ask me something specific that I don’t know I like to try it and see if it’s worth it. But otherwise, people have no business in telling other people what to run unless they specified it in the LFG. If they asked for meta only and he bring S/P, I can understand, but otherwise he can play how he want.

Thaddeus.4891:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Right. It comes down to your party comp and when your party prefer that you use D/D, you have to comply for the good of the run.

No you don’t have to comply. I run D/D because I like being efficient and if someone ask me something specific that I don’t know I like to try it and see if it’s worth it. But otherwise, people have no business in telling other people what to run unless they specified it in the LFG. If they asked for meta only and he bring S/P, I can understand, but otherwise he can play how he want.

Did you miss the part where I said “for the good of the run”?

If they are asking you to switch and you know that it won’t be for the good of the run, then don’t.