Guild Wars 2

I’m trying to get a good build going for dominating in WvW. Which, in your opinion, is better? I’ll most likely be going in and coming out, trying to get as much dmg as possible. I try to 1v1 but sometimes it turns into 1vZERG, and I need to get the kitten out. What are your opinions?

I prefer S/D just because of Infiltrator’s Strike. That skill has saved me more times than I can count. Use it correctly and it’s the perfect skill to dash in, score some damage or maybe finish off someone and then dash out. Plus it has a stun breaker on it, which just makes it even better. Also, the cripple from Dancing Dagger, the cripple from your auto attack and the Immobilize from Infiltrator’s strike are very good at stopping people from getting away when you engage them, making that setup good for roaming. Flanking Strike would be more useful if they fixed the glitch where you completely miss with it sometimes, but overall I like S/D better than D/D for WvW.

MrBig in 3,2,1

Jokes aside, D/D is best for singular targets and S/D is more for groups. If you need something to bug out with, I recommend keeping a shortbow on hand to gain some distance with Infiltrator’s Arrow, and a Signet of Shadows for the 25% speed buff.

D/D & Shortbow, IMO.

D/D for when you pick off people, shortbow for zerging fights.

Though IMO, what’s important in WvW isn’t the weapon choice, but your tactics. Don’t go running into a big fight expecting to 1v1 someone. Be patient, stalk the fringes of battle or avoid big battles altogether, and you’ll be able to find more solo-able targets running blissfully unaware of the danger you pose them.

Ursan.7846:

Though IMO, what’s important in WvW isn’t the weapon choice, but your tactics. Don’t go running into a big fight expecting to 1v1 someone.

Weapon choice is a big part of viable tactics though. The tactical choice you’ve noted here isn’t very viable with daggers, but is an excellent idea with something like S/D where AE attacks, control abilities, and superior escape options make it very rewarding to jump into the fray, kill 1/2 high-value targets, and get out.

Your post essentially boils down to “I prefer D/D, but what is really important is that you follow a D/D playstyle”.

In general, they’re both viable, but not for the same situations. Play whichever weapon set caters to your playstyle.

S/D is so much more productive than D/D in a group fight. It’s so much more flexible and hits HARD.

S/P or P/P work well too. Pistol whip is very good and I’ve used headshot numerous times to stop an enemy finishing off an ally. Pistols akimbo gives you nice damage that doesn’t require you to get your squishy self right into the battle.

short bow or bust, not enough people use short bow as a predominant weapon, it screams to be used in WvW exclusively! shortbow is brilliant from ranged or in melee range, also it catches people out that your not one of the clone backstab d/d thiefs.

still props to the sword dagger guys i see its nice meeting an opponent in WvW who has some originality.

a WvW build should be built to fight large ammounts of enemies and sustain damage across a long fight. D/D is a ganking build that frankly against good opponents isn’t even that great.

I’m considering running two shortbows with bloodlust on one and a when switched to signet on another trust me its that good!

I personally play mostly D/P but the playstyle is quite similar to D/D with bursty, fast damage and stealth backstabs.

The last 2 days I tried S/D and it has quite a lot of stuff going for it but you have to adopt an entirely different style. The autoattack is a lot slower but hits harder, you don’t have backstab for the burst but can easily jump around during combat disorienting enemies (and possibly yourself).

Basically S/D gives you better AoE damage (because sword hits in a cone) and an excellent gap closer/stun breaker with Infiltrator Strike. Flanking Strike is lackluster as it bugs out often and tactical strike can be very helpful to disable your enemies but doesn’t hit that hard.
So you are basically trading burst damage for AoE damage and utility. I think the weapon set can be quite effective when used correctly, unfortunately so far I am far from mastering it

@Kyus: Unfortunately the thief class in generally doesn’t lend itself very well to long sustained fights. We are just to squishy to jump in the fray and stay there for very long. The exception probably is a condition damage build, which can heavily invest in toughness/vit without sacrificing much damage.
The whole stealth mechanics lend themselves to jump towards an enemy, try to do as much damage as possible and jump back out.

But yes, when fighting enemy zergs in WvW shortbow is king. At the moment there really is no excuse not to use it as a secondary weapon.

Shortbow is always one slot for me. The best choice for firing onto or from fortification walls by far.

Daevara.9038:

@Kyus: Unfortunately the thief class in generally doesn’t lend itself very well to long sustained fights. We are just to squishy to jump in the fray and stay there for very long. The exception probably is a condition damage build, which can heavily invest in toughness/vit without sacrificing much damage.
The whole stealth mechanics lend themselves to jump towards an enemy, try to do as much damage as possible and jump back out.

But yes, when fighting enemy zergs in WvW shortbow is king. At the moment there really is no excuse not to use it as a secondary weapon.

I personally use shortbow in melee 1v1 I can doll out on a glass target successive 7-9k hits 1 second apart that hit in an aoe around me meaning that i don’t have to worry about melee range missing. I have two escape skills the best blast finisher in the game. I gain an immobilise and can use shadow refuge for a ranged leeching heal.

I don’t need to worry about being squishy with the correct dodging and utilities I simply don’t get hit much. against glass thieves I kill them in two hits as soon as I see them dissapear i spam aoe on myself which generally kills them, combined with 1 dodge in between which normally i time right to dodge the mug/backstab.

but the great thing is in a 1v3 1 v 5 or the other day a 1v9 the build is brilliant. and people see you with a shortbow and don’t suspect you to steal into there face and hit them 3 times in a row for anywhere between 4-9k per hit.

it offers the best return inniative:damage than any other weapon over a long period of time.

I’m quite passionate about this because the thief forum is dull with the DD… backstab mug… assassins signet…

I love seeing other thieves playing differently against me or on my side. I appreciate a lot of this forum comes from sPvP thieves and respect its a different playstyle but 1v1 dagger:dagger in WvW isn’t that progressive or useful in the long run so I’d love people to try something different.

I could go on but in short shortbow melee range is surprisingly effective

depends on you personal preference in wvwvw i use mainly SB and switch to D/D for some 1v1 unless its a melee thief, warrior or guardian were SB is a huge advantage. I may switch to D/D to finish them when they’re HP is low though

Daevara.9038:

Unfortunately the thief class in generally doesn’t lend itself very well to long sustained fights. We are just to squishy to jump in the fray and stay there for very long. The exception probably is a condition damage build, which can heavily invest in toughness/vit without sacrificing much damage.
The whole stealth mechanics lend themselves to jump towards an enemy, try to do as much damage as possible and jump back out.

Depends on how you build. Signet of Malice + heavy AE can keep thieves in the fight for a long time. Thieves can be built to be extremely effective at in the melee ball of the zerg for extended fights. Stealth also lends itself to focus-breaking in large scale combat as much as it does to ambush-style play.

“Thieves have to jump in and jump out” is a playstyle choice, not a general truism.

I have not tried “shotgun shortbow” yet. As I regularly see 4+k crits from clusterbomb when defending keeps I probably should just try it out. Something to do for the evening

Regarding Signet of Malice: I found the healing lackluster especially as I don’t have many AEs. Playing D/P I don’t have Death Blossom and while I have Dagger Storm slotted it’s more situational. That leaves Clusterbomb.

I don’t play sPvP so I only have WvW experience and I just feel very squishy there. I run a 20/30/0/20/0 build using Valkyrie armor and knight trinkets with Berserker weapons. I will not deny that I like the “get in, wreak havoc and get out” playstyle and it has it’s uses in zergfights because it enables you to pick of enemies in the back or at the sides who feel safe and aren’t watching their surroundings.

S/D, Shortbow, and S/P have the most coherent and effective group WvW capabilities.

Smoke field, poison field → weakness, other fields → blast, range Immobilize, burst → evade-tank (soak enemy cooldowns) → escape -- these are all major factors in winning WvW fights and making people dead in mid to large fights.

D/D simply does not have a large/mid-scale toolset. It is much more oriented towards 1v1 or small scale.

My dd+SB is a blast. Shortbow for zergs and point takedowns (best blast finisher EVER plus aoe weakness for team assists) and dd for single target takedowns (taking out key defenders or offensive nukers running around the skirts of battle.

Dd is NOT for large scale dps but for single TKOs and the shortbow for harassing and for reliable blast finishers.

Infiltrators Strike does seem uniquely suitable for Zerg vs. Zerg fights. The added AoE damage is just icing on the cake.

D/D might have slightly more burst for picking off single targets but it doesn’t have Infiltrator’s Strike.

This is my Shortbow. There are many like it, but this one is mine. I must master my Shortbow as I have mastered my life…

In WvW, SB is king for thieves. Awesome blast with excellent AoE (which works for crit or condition builds!), a dodge with a cripple, and the single best shadowstep in the game. Let’s not forget the awesome power of human CC. The poison gas skill can put down 3 giant red circles full of particle effects in no time flat (more if you’re traited), and that gets people to move. It doesn’t work on everyone, and it has been working less as time goes on, but more often than not, tossing some big red circles on the ground can scatter a zerg, make them pause inside artillery range, or buy you a few seconds to escape.

Not to mention SB’s skills having no cooldown make thieves great at playing wack-a-defender while sieging a tower. Plus, even my own guildies, who I have been playing with for 2 months now, still sometimes forget I’m not a ranger, so I assume the enemy makes this mistake as well.

All other arguments for other builds are accurate. Bring a DD if you wanna pick of individuals. Grab SD or SP if you wanna hang in the zerg for a bit. Get crazy and go for whatever else suits you (I’ve been playing with PD for my off set, with mixed results). But for Grenth’s sake, bring a shortbow to WvW.

For now I’m sticking to D/D and SB.
D/D allows me to jump in, take one down and run back, I feel like a special assassin on a stealthy hit mission.
SB is just the best ranged option for sieges, there is just no other choice sadly – but it’s fun enough.

1. Shortbow to harass, maximize range
2. Be on the lookout for retreating people or people who took hits…when you see one, switch to D/D and go for the quick kill
3. Then go back to your position…rinse and repeat.

Personally, I see a thief as a counter-oriented profession. Never initiate, let them attack you or chase you. Cherry pick your battles, only the ones you think you can kill quickly. I only fully commit (D/D) on a kill when I’m certain that player has a depleted health, otherwise, just potshot and frustrate them ’til they rage on you and make the mistake of chasing you away from his group.