Why MH Pistol Feels Weak

Why MH Pistol Feels Weak

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Posted by: Einlanzer.1627

Einlanzer.1627

I just posted this in the other thread, but I wanted to generate full discussion on it so I’m re-posting it here:

Vital Shot is supposed to have a 1/2 second activation, but I’m 90% certain that it actually has a 3/4 second activation (same as warrior rifle). If you pay attention, you’ll notice that not only is it fairly obvious visually that you aren’t firing at a rate of 2 shots/second, but the Bleed has a duration of 4 1/2 seconds. This means that if Pistol #1 wasn’t bugged the Bleed stack would reach 8 easily, but it only ever reaches 5.

MH Pistol’s other attributes are balanced around its short activation speed. It has less range, does less damage, and has a shorter bleed than the warrior’s rifle, but is supposed to be much faster to compensate. It isn’t.

So, its primary attack is bugged. That’s the entire problem with MH Pistol, and always has been. Sure, it lacks utility too but that’s majorly secondary.

Why MH Pistol Feels Weak

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Posted by: Tulisin.6945

Tulisin.6945

Not really a bug. Activation time is not indicative of animation time, which is why you can’t throw 4 Dancing Daggers a second and Flanking Strike doesn’t have godly DPS (listed 1/2 second activation time). It is just super easy to notice on auto attacks because you’re spamming them all the time.

Why MH Pistol Feels Weak

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Posted by: Einlanzer.1627

Einlanzer.1627

Not really a bug. Activation time is not indicative of animation time, which is why you can’t throw 4 Dancing Daggers a second and Flanking Strike doesn’t have godly DPS (listed 1/2 second activation time). It is just super easy to notice on auto attacks because you’re spamming them all the time.

I promise you, it is.

The rate of fire is almost if not the the exact same as the Warrior’s Rifle. Even if it isn’t actually a bug with the activation timer, it’s an unintended design issue with the skill’s reponsiveness. If you compare it to swinging a sword, the the sword has a 1/2 activation speed as well but has much less delay between swings. If you compare it to the Warrior’s Rifle, the obvious design intent was for it to be much weaker but much faster. In actuality, it’s much weaker without being much, if any, faster.

Whether it’s a bug or a design oversight, it needs to be addressed. It should be able to stack up to 8 bleeds by itself like all other primary bleed weapons can. Engineers complain about their MH pistol feeling weak also, and this is the reason why. The Pistol skills were balanced around the intention of them being significantly faster than the Rifle when they actually aren’t.

(edited by Einlanzer.1627)

Why MH Pistol Feels Weak

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Posted by: Tulisin.6945

Tulisin.6945

Whether it’s a bug or a design oversight, it needs to be addressed.

Fair enough, but you might have more success with a point like “buff pistol attack speed” than “it is broken”, because the devs are just going to look at it, see it isn’t broken, and move on.

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Posted by: lethlora.1320

lethlora.1320

If you compare it to the Warrior’s Rifle, the obvious design intent was for it to be much weaker but much faster. In actuality, it’s much weaker without being much, if any, faster.

This logic only holds true if you were talking exclusively about one class, which we aren’t. The balance of Warrior and Thief is totally different. If you had a warrior who could use rifles and pistols, then yes, the obvious intent (which is still an assumption, there’s not hard and fast rule that this is how it must work) is that the rifle is slower and more powerful and the pistol is faster and less powerful. However, we’re talking about Thieves vs. Warriors here, who have very different resources and utilities at their disposal. It’s more about “this is a thief with a gun” and “this is a warrior with a gun” since neither of them can use both of those weapons.

Yes, thief pistol needs love, but this comparison isn’t terribly meaningful or constructive, much less asserting (vehemently) that something is bugged when it has nothing to do with bugs.

That said, the value is cast time. It doesn’t say anything about recovery time.

Why MH Pistol Feels Weak

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Posted by: Einlanzer.1627

Einlanzer.1627

If you compare it to the Warrior’s Rifle, the obvious design intent was for it to be much weaker but much faster. In actuality, it’s much weaker without being much, if any, faster.

This logic only holds true if you were talking exclusively about one class, which we aren’t. The balance of Warrior and Thief is totally different. If you had a warrior who could use rifles and pistols, then yes, the obvious intent (which is still an assumption, there’s not hard and fast rule that this is how it must work) is that the rifle is slower and more powerful and the pistol is faster and less powerful. However, we’re talking about Thieves vs. Warriors here, who have very different resources and utilities at their disposal. It’s more about “this is a thief with a gun” and “this is a warrior with a gun” since neither of them can use both of those weapons.

Yes, thief pistol needs love, but this comparison isn’t terribly meaningful or constructive, much less asserting (vehemently) that something is bugged when it has nothing to do with bugs.

That said, the value is cast time. It doesn’t say anything about recovery time.

False, the common design approach is obvious, and the comparison between the two is in fact more relevant than a comparison within a single profession would be because the warrior’s rifle and the thief’s pistol are very clearly designed for the exact same niche, unlike any two weapons within a single profession.

Additionally, it is quite obvious when you merely glance at the data that the two were balanced with regard to each other. The bleed duration on the rifle is 50% longer than the bleed duration on the pistol. Meanwhile, the pistol has a 50% faster activation time, which would lead to the same DPS/bleed stacks if the activation time was actually a reflection of the weapon’s actual rate of fire. It isn’t, the pistol can’t do nearly the amount of direct damage nor stack nearly as many bleeds as the rifle can (5 stacks vs. 8 stacks) because, despite the rifle being roughly 50% stronger, the pistol isn’t anywhere near 50% faster. Reduced range is icing on the cake.

Vital Shot is very noticeably vastly inferior to Bleeding Shot. This is virtually no question that this is a bug or an unintended design oversight.

(edited by Einlanzer.1627)