Guild Wars 2

Hello.
I change a lot of builds and weapons, sigils, runes BUT this class real sux 1on1.

I played thief with backstab build ( in team pvp like 10 30 30 00 and 25 30 0 0 15 ) but 1v1 this builds sux!!!

Mainly thief loose vs mesmer, necro, enge , elem, guard.

WTF!!! why backstab build so ussless. D/D and D/P so bad 1on1.

Only condition thief has little chance in S/D and condition.

I didnt see thief how win with d/d or d/p vs enge/mesmer/ elem

Who can help and show build or vide where thief can win other classes 1on1 whith d/d or d/p

For your information, the 25/30/0/0/15 build is not supposed to be a 1v1 build. Its a gank glass cannon/Mobile DPS build meant to quickly kill targets and retreat.

You can win a lot of 1v1s if you simply out-skill the opponent, but amongst equal-skilled opponents, the 25/30/0/0/15 build is not very good.

The 10/30/30/0/0 build though is more of a 1v1 build, but the detriment here is that it has no damage and can be pretty much ignored, so you won’t really kill a lot of players unless they let you.

tl;dr, yes thief is underpowered and needs buffs.

Come on. I use balanced backstabs 10 30 30.
Healing while stealth.
Trait that removes 1 condition for 3 seconds.
Signets using.
And i loose necro elem enge

and You can kill all execept mesmer and elem bunker????
do not bullkitten me.

I’m going to put it bluntly here, the main problem is you’re a bad thief.
Thieves do not need buffs or anything in PvP, they’re fine as they are.
I run with a S/D initiative regen. build and I have no problems with 1v1’s with any classes, I’ll lose if I am outplayed admittably.
So stop your whining and learn to play.

Porch Donkey.1673:

I’m going to put it bluntly here, the main problem is you’re a bad thief.
Thieves do not need buffs or anything in PvP, they’re fine as they are.
I run with a S/D initiative regen. build and I have no problems with 1v1’s with any classes, I’ll lose if I am outplayed admittably.
So stop your whining and learn to play.

Omg i said previosly that S/D and Condition thief has chance to win elem/mesmer/ enge/necr but D/D and D/P dosent !

As a phantasm mesmer, the typical glassy gank thief is easy bags for me, but have you tried a P/D Rabid Thief? Out of all the thief builds I’ve faced, that one gives me the most trouble by FAR. Good direct damage, great condition damage, and fairly tough. Seeing such a thief in action played by a good player was rather awe inspiring.

I abandoned D/x long time ago due to its low damage despite the initial backstab damage.

D/x was never meant to be a 1v1 weapon set. If you want to 1v1, S/D is your best bet.

Running 25/30/0/15/0 D/D in solo queue just for the dodge safety net, works just fine.

Learn when to engage and when to not engage. You’re not supposed to seek out 1v1s – that’s not the objective.

Which amuet are you using in your D/P 10/30/30/0/0 setup ?
Try with soldiers(+zerker jewel).

Also you should perhaps switch some utils regarding the class you fight ( also elite ).

D/P can kill many 1v1 speccs, however no bunkers ( who can at all ) but it is hard to kill too !! ( unless you don’t realize when to dodge / rupt and retreat )

You’re doing something wrong losing to necro. The only time I’ve lost to one in May involved me getting feared off a very high cliff.

il giv u an idea. watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvgRjkziDDM&list=UU-SjU98hzx0-TdRsxXuf6kg&index=12

WyldKat.4712:

You’re doing something wrong losing to necro. The only time I’ve lost to one in May involved me getting feared off a very high cliff.

Comments like this have absolutely no sense … you cannot just say “heck, how can you lose agains profession X” ….

It all comes down to specs and playerskill !

lvis.3824:

WyldKat.4712:

You’re doing something wrong losing to necro. The only time I’ve lost to one in May involved me getting feared off a very high cliff.

Comments like this have absolutely no sense … you cannot just say “heck, how can you lose agains profession X” ….

It all comes down to specs and playerskill !

lol, that’s basically what WyldKat.4712 is saying – either you didn’t do your homework and preparation or you slacked off on your training.

It only made no sense because you’re not a Thief.

Its ok D/D and D/P spec usless because so nerf.

1on1 turney only condition and S/D.

I think we need wait fix in the future.

Thief class became like figher with a lot of evasion ( S/D )not like assassin, the name of class thief shoud named like trickster:D:D

Because the best way 1on1 its condition and S/D with a lot of evasion

Backstab and stealth thives are not relevant its NERFED

Coloxeus.3480:

il giv u an idea. watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvgRjkziDDM&list=UU-SjU98hzx0-TdRsxXuf6kg&index=12

LAWLS that mesmer was the worst mesmer I have ever seen!!!! Video is not valid sorry

salameri.3768:

Coloxeus.3480:

il giv u an idea. watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvgRjkziDDM&list=UU-SjU98hzx0-TdRsxXuf6kg&index=12

LAWLS that mesmer was the worst mesmer I have ever seen!!!! Video is not valid sorry

so talking is more valid lol and are u the one who needs advice?

if you’re looking for a 1v1 thief build, backstab is not for you. GC backstab is good in teams as a finisher and to cvatch runners but in a straight up fight it’s pretty bad as everyone in PvP now knows exactly how to reflexively stunbreak and dodge your alpha chain, which with the rework of mug doesn’t do enough damage to kill even squishies from full any more anyway.

For 1v1 you might want to try D/D deathblossom/evasion, P/D rabid or carrion, or S/D balanced. These are builds with a lot of evasion, stealth, or otherwise long duration sustain in fights which is what you need to win 1v1s with full Hp opponents.

Complaining about not winning in certain situations with certain weapon sets is pointless. Weapon skills weren’t all designed to be equally good in every situation – as some said, D/x has a lot of damage, but is very telegraphed and has zero survivability – that’s just how it was designed. Not every weapon is equally good for 1v1 on any profession.

Try 1v1ing decent players with staff ele or mace guardian – you just won’t kill them, simple as that.

PopeUrban.2578:

For 1v1 you might want to try D/D deathblossom/evasion,.

No, don’t make him suffer. D/D condi is awful for 1v1 if not for the Caltrops and conquest system. In an open field fight, you just won’t win if the enemy has even the slightest amount of condi removal, the build is just too easy to kite. Don’t even get me started on that “evasion” of the Death Blossom, it last for .25s, about 1/3 of the skill’s actual animation; it’s a ridiculously small evade frame.

i’m just glad that you didn’t lose to a warrior

execullent.8560:

Porch Donkey.1673:

I’m going to put it bluntly here, the main problem is you’re a bad thief.
Thieves do not need buffs or anything in PvP, they’re fine as they are.
I run with a S/D initiative regen. build and I have no problems with 1v1’s with any classes, I’ll lose if I am outplayed admittably.
So stop your whining and learn to play.

Omg i said previosly that S/D and Condition thief has chance to win elem/mesmer/ enge/necr but D/D and D/P dosent !

Porch is right; sorry, but you’re probably just a bad player, and that’s all I can say about it. However, I will note that D/P GC is the build that Caed runs, and while I don’t agree with his strategy, he is extremely successful even in top levels. Furthermore, D/D- another weapon set that I don’t entirely agree with, from a strategic point of view- is extremely successful against players who don’t know much about thieves, so I can’t say that D/D and D/P are bad weapon sets, just not the ones that I prefer to use.

Do people still 1on1? I thought this game was design around teamplay? I understand WvW roaming but in PvP, 1on1 is the dumbest thing to do. Especially with different builds like bunker, burst builds, etc… Specific builds and weaponset will have a huge advantage against others, you’re not fighting a fair game.

Arganthium.5638:

execullent.8560:

Porch Donkey.1673:

I’m going to put it bluntly here, the main problem is you’re a bad thief.
Thieves do not need buffs or anything in PvP, they’re fine as they are.
I run with a S/D initiative regen. build and I have no problems with 1v1’s with any classes, I’ll lose if I am outplayed admittably.
So stop your whining and learn to play.

Omg i said previosly that S/D and Condition thief has chance to win elem/mesmer/ enge/necr but D/D and D/P dosent !

Porch is right; sorry, but you’re probably just a bad player, and that’s all I can say about it. However, I will note that D/P GC is the build that Caed runs, and while I don’t agree with his strategy, he is extremely successful even in top levels. Furthermore, D/D- another weapon set that I don’t entirely agree with, from a strategic point of view- is extremely successful against players who don’t know much about thieves, so I can’t say that D/D and D/P are bad weapon sets, just not the ones that I prefer to use.

Why do people feel the need to insult an honest guy who started a topic to learn? In my opinion someone as (over)confident as you is (over)compensating. You NEVER lost a 1v1? I bet you lost more than you can remember so you decided just to roll with the zerg so you can maintain that warm fuzzy feeling of accomplishment. I got all that from your implying that D/P and D/D lack tactical value while S/D (that`s all that`s left) is superior. But most people agree that while FS – LS might be decent at best the auto attack chain is simply horrible. It`s a zerg weapon set where you can sword skill 2 someone vulnerable and return back to your team mates.

Stardrift.7360:

Why do people feel the need to insult an honest guy who started a topic to learn? In my opinion someone as (over)confident as you is (over)compensating. You NEVER lost a 1v1? I bet you lost more than you can remember so you decided just to roll with the zerg so you can maintain that warm fuzzy feeling of accomplishment. I got all that from your implying that D/P and D/D lack tactical value while S/D (that`s all that`s left) is superior. But most people agree that while FS – LS might be decent at best the auto attack chain is simply horrible. It`s a zerg weapon set where you can sword skill 2 someone vulnerable and return back to your team mates.

First of all, I’d like to say that Ex is trying to learn, but all I see in his post is a flat-out attack on the D/P and D/D specs that doesn’t suggest that he wants to learn, but that he’s just trying to stir up an argument about the two specs. Sure, at the end of his post he adds something about a vid, but everything beforehand was just “WTF D/P AND D/D ARE SOOO BAD LIEK SERIOUZLY GUYZ”, and that’s what I was replying to. Typically, what I think of when I think of a post that wants to learn about these two weaponsets does not include commentary that the two weaponsets are awful for the majority of the OP. To me, it doesn’t make sense to say “omg these weaponsets are horrible” and then say “can somebody give me a video tutorial for these weapon sets?”- it just seems contradictory to look for a tutorial on something that you think is bad. Thus, my comment wasn’t directed to Ex’s desire (?) to learn, but rather at his rant-like post that was absolutely meaningless, apparently.

Now, I never said, personally, that I always win 1v1s. I don’t claim that this is the case, and I’m not going to, because it’s simply not true. I’m not trying to be overconfident here (although perhaps that’s how you interpreted my reply), I’m simply responding that if you’re going to call a weaponset terrible and then ask for a tutorial on how to use it, that either you’re going a bit crazy or you just need to L2P. Obviously the weaponset can’t be that bad if you want to learn how to use it.

Furthermore, I never even used the word “tactics” or “tactical” in my post, so any interpretation of my saying that the two weaponsets lack value because they’re tactically worthless is on you, not me. I will say, however, that I’ve never like D/D, and D/P isn’t very good for PvP, IMO. However, S/D does have the advantage of being a very stealth-less build, making it good for fighting on points. Furthermore, what “most people agree on” isn’t what I agree on. Personally, I feel that a very large proportion of the thief community is mistaken in that they play overly aggressive builds that lack the sustainability required to carry out a proper fight. For example, on last night’s “Revealed” podcast, I asked the two speaker, Jumper and Markus (if that’s who it was, can’t remember his name, exactly) how necessary 30 points in CS is. Both replied that it’s essentially the only source from which thieves get their damage. I, for one, however, disagree with their idea, for reasons that I can explain in a later post. The point is, though, that just because the “majority” of the thief community thinks that the Sword auto is horrible (which is actually something that I haven’t seen the community believe in myself, but I’ll take your word for it), I don’t think that the auto is bad at all. For example, people neglect to mention that the chain, overall, scales better with power than does the dagger auto (the entire sword auto attack has a coefficient of 2.9, whereas the entire dagger auto has a coefficient of 2.82, but only if both strikes on Double Strike hit). Of course, you could argue that the sword auto chain has longer animations, however, the issue is that the shorter animations on the dagger auto make it much more easy to miss on dagger than on sword, and if you miss even once then the total damage reduction that will result from your missing is quite significant. Even the 1/4 second on Lotus Strike is a decent enough animation to be reliable; it has a very noticeable “hard-hitting” animation on it. Furthermore, the poison on Lotus doesn’t deal enough damage or last long enough to be a good heal mitigator, but cripple and weakness on the sword are both very powerful conditions that amplify the attack’s effectiveness; weakness can mitigate damage up to 25% and reduces endurance regeneration significantly, which works well in tandem with the cripple as a way to really lock down enemies and keep them controlled. With IStrike, FStrike/PW, and DDagger/Headshot, this makes the sword a very reliable weaponset that has very good control opportunities relative to the dagger.

As a matter of fact, the sword probably has an overall better auto that works better with the weaponset than does dagger.

Try sword/dagger!!

1vs1 fights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0GFVmI2OX0

Backstabbing:

Without music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBayq4ac9oc

With music:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x101xyp_gw2-thief-backstab-long_videogames#.UaZls0Bzkwk

I’m pretty sure the OP is being sarcastic but everyone is giving him legit answers. I guess successful troll is successful.

randomfightfan.4091:

I’m pretty sure the OP is being sarcastic but everyone is giving him legit answers. I guess successful troll is successful.

Glad im not the only one caught onto this digressive ruse..

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586:

randomfightfan.4091:

I’m pretty sure the OP is being sarcastic but everyone is giving him legit answers. I guess successful troll is successful.

Glad im not the only one caught onto this digressive ruse..

You’d be surprised what noobs do with thieves…

I was in hotjoin and refuse to play capricorn so I was checking out the other thieves builds. Only 1 guy had a normal build. Some noob was using d/p + p/p and he had venomous strength with no venoms equipped, the 50% downed damage. Just terrible. Out of like 7 thieves, only 1 guy had 30SA with infusion/embrace/rejuv.

Then there were a few with 30SA that didn’t take shadows embrace or shadows rejuv and picked some random lol crap.

The best advice I can give you against a Mesmer (and against some cases of multiple turrets Engineer) is switch to your Shortbow. Spam some auto-atacks and Cluster Bombs while constantly moving to avoid the shatters. If you have Thieves Guild, summon your buddies to even the numbers.

I don’t like Backstab builds too much personally, but as others said, you should focus on getting targets not expecting you and get your free kill. And even in duels against ready opponents a D/P build is really good, it’s one of the most used builds when showing duels videos in youtube.

Arale.4207:

As a phantasm mesmer, the typical glassy gank thief is easy bags for me, but have you tried a P/D Rabid Thief? Out of all the thief builds I’ve faced, that one gives me the most trouble by FAR. Good direct damage, great condition damage, and fairly tough. Seeing such a thief in action played by a good player was rather awe inspiring.

I think you meant Carrion instead of Rabid? Rabid is pure mathematical garbage on a condition Thief (and on most classes except very specific builds). The total damage (direct+condition) on Carrion even if you’re getting Sigils to bleed on crits (and in other professions traits for the same effect) is faaaaaaaar superior to Rabid. And defensively with Thief being low tier HP it’s good too specially to resist ocasinal bursts when they CC you.

@Arganthium: Interesting info, was enlightening to read. Maybe i`m just not cut out for it but if it works go for it. Maybe i`m still nostalgic of D/D mug loldmg. I find it silly to go toe to toe with someone with superior damage mitigation, hp, more CCs etc etc. When i started playing a thief i enjoyed keeping my focus for 5-6 seconds max hitting hard with my own abilities and using the stolen one also (basilisk-cnd-bs-fear/whirlwind axe-2,3X heartseeker was the only way i could guarantee a successful encounter vs a necro/warrior). Who knows maybe everybody else is way better at adapting than me. I`m feeling this profession is starting to be an elitist one just like so many other MMOs out there (assassin from aion, rogue from rift). If that`s the case maybe it`s time to start playing something that lets me catch my breath and doesn`t get me so much hate: if i win i get “spam 2 moar” if i`m losing/running away it`s “hide moar”. I stand by my statement regarding the emotional immaturity of this game`s community…

actually i think thief is rather excellent in 1v1, vs zergs though thieves are a little limited. u guys are hard to kill in pvp.in wvw there is soo much aoe going on that it is harder for u to escape.

Lokheit.7943:

Arale.4207:

As a phantasm mesmer, the typical glassy gank thief is easy bags for me, but have you tried a P/D Rabid Thief? Out of all the thief builds I’ve faced, that one gives me the most trouble by FAR. Good direct damage, great condition damage, and fairly tough. Seeing such a thief in action played by a good player was rather awe inspiring.

I think you meant Carrion instead of Rabid? Rabid is pure mathematical garbage on a condition Thief (and on most classes except very specific builds). The total damage (direct+condition) on Carrion even if you’re getting Sigils to bleed on crits (and in other professions traits for the same effect) is faaaaaaaar superior to Rabid. And defensively with Thief being low tier HP it’s good too specially to resist ocasinal bursts when they CC you.

I actually just checked out the math for this on my thief Excel worksheet (which I just managed to get a lot of work done on… Thank goodness for that -.-)… I was actually really surprised to find out the damage deficiencies that rabid has compared to carrion. Actually, it’s completely ridiculous, unless you have unrealistically high crit damage %.

Of course, there’s the vitality versus toughness debate too, which complicates things a bit more, but I’d have to maintain that carrion is actually far superior to rabid. Interesting.

Here is a small showcase of my P/D in 1vX. It is only my second video I have attempted to make. Ill get into editing my videos later but does show the strengths of this Thief build.

http://youtu.be/zNeetcHHzpg

Arganthium.5638:

I actually just checked out the math for this on my thief Excel worksheet (which I just managed to get a lot of work done on… Thank goodness for that -.-)… I was actually really surprised to find out the damage deficiencies that rabid has compared to carrion. Actually, it’s completely ridiculous, unless you have unrealistically high crit damage %.

Of course, there’s the vitality versus toughness debate too, which complicates things a bit more, but I’d have to maintain that carrion is actually far superior to rabid. Interesting.

Yes Precission without tons of Critical Damage is really inferior to Power. If you do the derivate for distributing 1000 atribute points (not how the game works but it gives a good idea) between Power and Precission without CD, the result is that you have to TAKE points from Precission (which means a very small percentage of hits that will refenerate your opponents health bar) and give them to Power in adition to the 1000 you’re distributing to reach maximum possible damage.

That’s how poor Precission is for damage compared to Power. Even with the max CD you can get in the game, Power is still really superior (and you consumed 2 atribute slots to get that maxed CD and Precission).

Of course you can always take the three atributes (Power+Precission+Critical Damage) because in this game killing fast is usually really effective, but when you have to choose between Power and Precission always go for Power. There are very few cases where you will find Precission useful by itself, specific builds that have a huge lot of useful on crit effects, but there aren’t too many of those builds and even then if you go for them, in most cases you should complement your Precission with Power and CD to capitalize the investment.

On the Vitality versus Toughness part of Carrion versus Rabid, while Toughness is very effective on prolongated fights as the amount you heal is protected too, Vitality is the better stat to resist damage before applying heals. I think both atributes are useful, but with alread +300 Tough from SA and the Thief being low tier HP (which means the same amount of HP increase will suppose a bigger percentage increase for him that for a Warrior) the Vitality bonus is completly fine.

Necromancer is the only case where at first Toughness is better to resist damage than Vitality (and that’s because HP tiers are waaaaaaay better than Armor Tiers). In fact Necromancer is IMO the real target of Rabid Equipment, given how they benefit more from Toughness and most builds where Precission and Conditions is a decent idea belong to them.

Thief is pretty meh in spvp. Tank builds rule SpVp, and thief stealth spamming builds aren’t capping objectives very efficiently.

On my D/D burst build I can 1 v 1 anyone and win as long as I have not already been on cool down or they run back to a group. Honestly, using 10 in power is dumb. I use 0/30/30/10/0. When I have exhausted my stealth skills, I steal and stealth and just wait it out as I regen like 2k health whilst I’m stealthed. You don’t need advice or opinions or a new build. You need practice.

HeNnAz.8913:

On my D/D burst build I can 1 v 1 anyone and win as long as I have not already been on cool down or they run back to a group. Honestly, using 10 in power is dumb. I use 0/30/30/10/0. When I have exhausted my stealth skills, I steal and stealth and just wait it out as I regen like 2k health whilst I’m stealthed. You don’t need advice or opinions or a new build. You need practice.

You didnt play 1on1 vs good necr or good enge.

Why all think that i noob and cant play and all gave me advise take S/D or P/D condi. AS I SAID PREVEOSLY that there are good builds 1on1 ! and i know it!!!

The question was that thief cant win 1on1 with d/d and p/d good necr or mesmer or enge.
And i understood why i that couse its just nerf!

Do not generalize. Winning or losing a match boils down to few factors, some of which are good timing, skills, and builds. Being a good player will give you a huge advantage over baddies, however, when fighting good players, you will need to have in mind whether they are using a counter-build. Same goes for you, are you using a build that can counter them? This is exactly why you see some thieves for example have problems against engineers, other against ele…and so on.

There is no such thing as X class sucks in 1v1 … Period.

^^ True – indeed, the forums are full of people who find it easier to post their whine on a forum than learn their class. GW2 is an unusually well balanced game, it even has spectator mode in sPvP so you can watch how someone who has just beat you not only play but their exact build and gear. I really don’t know how much more can be given. If you’re running a backstab build imho you’re a caveman.

I just like stealth and backstab.

S/D its evading