Why are thieves so hated?
I run D/D so it would directly affect me, but any thief worth anything knows there are numerous ways to kill more effectively then HS. I understand why people would complain about it, but it’s easily evaded and counter attacked.
So you roll D/D and just completely ignore one of your key abilities?
People also complain a lot about perma-stealth thieves, what? It’s not like they spawn and can instantly have permanent stealth, it requires setup and is not easily reset during combat (if you are playing against someone who knows how to play).
Seriously, you have to like make sure you’re not blind and in melee range, then you have to press 5. The set up is so intense!
Most players chose to play thief not to simply spam 2 on and on and on again…
If by ‘most’ you mean a couple. Those two are busy spamming 3.
The class has so much more to offer than other classes and despite the constant nerfs remains extremely easy and powerful.
Fixed that for you.
What a lot of people don’t understand (I still think HS could use a decent nerf for above 50% hp, I think it still should be a viable finisher) is that HS can put a thief at a disadvantage during a fight. You burn through initiative, and get yourself within melee range fully visible. Any decent player could easily immobilize and kill the thief in seconds, seconds.
LOL. Yeah, man that instant gap closer that also hits like a truck sure is a disadvantage! If the opponent actually saw me, they could possibly have a chance to fight back!! And I’m too busy telling others to l2p to be bothered to slot a stun break.
I play a thief and I honestly wouldn’t mind at all if HS got a heavy nerf, or alternatively require more initiative. I used it briefly when I started and haven’t touched it since.
I play a thief as well, no main-hand dagger. A nerf would have no effect me at all. The main reason i don’t want to get rid of it is I love LOLing at “hertseeker noobs” and killing them shortly after. It’s only an issue when you are greatly outnumbered and at that point any burst build is a problem.
I run D/D so it would directly affect me, but any thief worth anything knows there are numerous ways to kill more effectively then HS. I understand why people would complain about it, but it’s easily evaded and counter attacked.
People also complain a lot about perma-stealth thieves, what? It’s not like they spawn and can instantly have permanent stealth, it requires setup and is not easily reset during combat (if you are playing against someone who knows how to play).
On a side note, if you are not level 80 and fully geared with a good understanding of game mechanics, you shouldn’t even be allowed to post a complaint about something being OP, in my opinion.
This is why i love pain inventer for my asura.
Guardianhipster
Thiefhipster
Thiefhipster
I have an 80 thief (among other classes). They’re hated because stealth is a broken mechanic. Simple as that. No other class can walk into a group of 3-5 people with the possibility of downing and stealth dunking one of them, and then walk away. Culling makes this worse.
Thieves have:
1) The best mobility in the game
2) The best opening attacks in the game
3) The best burst damage in the game
4 The best kiting ablity in the game
5) The best escapability in the game (Elementalists come close)
6) The best hit and run, or engage and disengage abilities in the game
7) Very good, but not the best wall defense
8) Very good, but not the best wall clearing abilities.This adds up to a class that effectively has few, if any, weaknesses and even average/poor players can be incredibly effective.
It boils down to a very very low risk class with very very high rewards. They can contribute in almost every situation, and can escape from almost every situation that doesn’t suit them. Culling lets them stay in combat, deliver huge amounts of damage from a position where other players have an incredibly difficult time defending or responding. Honestly stealth should work differently than it does right now. It should either drop when the thief takes X damage or gets hit X number of times, or revealed should be significantly longer than it is now.
Only bad/tunnelvisioned thieves will ever die in wvw, but bad thieves can still get lots of kills. No other class can boast this.
D/D eles and guardians can kill 3 targets easily ^ ^ and I’m pretty sure a mesmer can too but I’ve never seen one trying it
All classes
Most players chose to play thief not to simply spam 2 on and on and on again…
If by ‘most’ you mean a couple. Those two are busy spamming 3.
Just saying that proves you have no idea how to play a thief. Also it invalidates pretty much all of your QQing.
And just so we’re clear, we do not need you to “fix” what we have said. That is rude and unconstructive.
People keep complaining about spamming 2 with D/* as a finisher, but what would the alternative be? Autoattack? Deathblossom is decent for a condition build, DD is pitiful for real damage output now, and CnD would just put you back in stealth assuming you aren’t revealed. Other classes would use this opportunity to weapon swap, but due to our global cool down this wouldn’t do any good unless traited to 30 in acrobatics. So if you do switch and want to stay in close combat, you have the choice of sword and, oh yeah, sword. On sword you have auto attack, a gap closer, and either FS or PW depending on your offhand. Being able to spam HS is the trade-off for the lack of other abilities and being tied to a global cooldown.
Err. Uh. Every class (except Engineers) have the exact same constraints. Except that all the other classes are also constrained by the ability itself going on cooldown.
Thief is only limited by Initiative, hence the relative encouragement to spam abilities.
LOL. Yeah, man that instant gap closer that also hits like a truck sure is a disadvantage! If the opponent actually saw me, they could possibly have a chance to fight back!! And I’m too busy telling others to l2p to be bothered to slot a stun break.
Like I said before, I think HS does need a pretty hefty nerf, but you were too busy trolling to be bothered by reading. Sure you have a stun break, are the thieves spamming stun break skills now? Nope. I’m actually all for balancing certain aspects of the class, but when I see posts where they want stealth removed, higher DPS removed, what makes the thief a viable class after that?
Am I ignoring a key ability? That is personal preference, my play style doesn’t incorporate it and I do just fine and enjoy the game.
sociablegnomes / ekleenex / swághili [Rekz]
“dodging saves lives.”
“dodging saves lives.”
People keep complaining about spamming 2 with D/* as a finisher, but what would the alternative be? Autoattack? Deathblossom is decent for a condition build, DD is pitiful for real damage output now, and CnD would just put you back in stealth assuming you aren’t revealed. Other classes would use this opportunity to weapon swap, but due to our global cool down this wouldn’t do any good unless traited to 30 in acrobatics. So if you do switch and want to stay in close combat, you have the choice of sword and, oh yeah, sword. On sword you have auto attack, a gap closer, and either FS or PW depending on your offhand. Being able to spam HS is the trade-off for the lack of other abilities and being tied to a global cooldown.
Err. Uh. Every class (except Engineers) have the exact same constraints. Except that all the other classes are also constrained by the ability itself going on cooldown.
Thief is only limited by Initiative, hence the relative encouragement to spam abilities.
So Mister Mustard, what profession is it that you play? I am curious seeing how you are so adamant about railing against the Thief.
“Society is a madhouse, whose wardens are the police and the officials.”
LOL. Yeah, man that instant gap closer that also hits like a truck sure is a disadvantage! If the opponent actually saw me, they could possibly have a chance to fight back!! And I’m too busy telling others to l2p to be bothered to slot a stun break.
Like I said before, I think HS does need a pretty hefty nerf. Sure you have a stun break, are the thieves spamming stun break skills now? Nope. I’m actually all for balancing certain aspects of the class, but when I see posts where they want stealth removed, higher DPS removed, what makes the thief a viable class after that?
Am I ignoring a key ability? That is personal preference, my play style doesn’t incorporate it and I do just fine and enjoy the game.
EDITED: Realized he probably isn’t able to read something that subtle, retracted troll statement.
sociablegnomes / ekleenex / swághili [Rekz]
“dodging saves lives.”
“dodging saves lives.”
(edited by ekleenex.1654)
Most players chose to play thief not to simply spam 2 on and on and on again…
If by ‘most’ you mean a couple. Those two are busy spamming 3.
Just saying that proves you have no idea how to play a thief. Also it invalidates pretty much all of your QQing.
And just so we’re clear, we do not need you to “fix” what we have said. That is rude and unconstructive.
That post was almost entirely tongue-in-cheek, mainly to symbolize how ridiculous I feel the quoted arguments are.
I apologize if you took it as rudeness, and I’m not sure how arguing for the opposing view is unconstructive. What is rude and unconstructive, however, is flatly dismissing my comments as “QQing” and invalid. Just so we’re clear.
Am I ignoring a key ability? That is personal preference, my play style doesn’t incorporate it and I do just fine and enjoy the game.
You’re certainly right about that. I just picked on that comment because, after all, it is a very nice ability (gap close, execution). Despite it’s reputation as a newb spam ability, it certainly has its place. But you play however you want to, I will never (seriously) knock someone for having fun in a game.
So Mister Mustard, what profession is it that you play? I am curious seeing how you are so adamant about railing against the Thief.
I’m mainly a Mesmer. I started as a Thief on release, and after trying out a number of alts as one is bound to try with a new game, I got hooked on the Mesmer. I have recently started leveling a Necro as well. Mesmer is 80, Thief is ~65, Necro is ~35.
And to be clear, I don’t intend to rail on Thieves. I do play one (not my main admittedly). I think stealth is a crutch and provides too much benefit to the class, which in turn hurts its ability to ever be enjoyable and balanced.
That post was almost entirely tongue-in-cheek, mainly to symbolize how ridiculous I feel the quoted arguments are.
I apologize if you took it as rudeness, and I’m not sure how arguing for the opposing view is unconstructive. What is rude and unconstructive, however, is flatly dismissing my comments as “QQing” and invalid. Just so we’re clear.
When your argument does not revolve around editing the “opposition’s” point of view without offering any insights yourself, other than generally hinting at a class as OP then your comments will stop being taken as QQ,or if you prefer “forum whining”. Glad we are clear.
From the small amount of information you have provided, you believe thieves are either rolling balls of death spamming HS til they are dry of initiative (then what after ? You didn’t elaborate) or they are condition specced. That shows to me that you either have never played a thief, or have not experimented with yours very much.
You also talk about initiative, and how it is encourages spamming.
Indeed there is no stopping a thief burning of of his initiative pressing 2 or 3 but where does that leave him afterward?
Unless of course you are facing a player that is just happy to take it, it is a very basic and may I say "stupid"build and won’t work on anyone with a bit of a brain.
Also to really be an effective enough method of taking down his opponents the said thief would have to invest heavily in power and precision, which leaves him with no survivability. Very risky build with little chance of paying off.
You also talk about “easy” thief is. Well you are correct there, thief is pretty easy. But so are pretty much all of the other classes (hello ele, warriors,mesmers and guardians) , I mean how hard is it to handle two weapon sets and a bunch of utilities?
The only people I believe when it comes to calling for nerfs are those working at ANet. I hope you noticed that in this conversation I haven’t been “defending” thieves or asking for a buff. I said there is more to them than a baddie build revolving around spamming 2 buttons.
You believe otherwise. I guess that is where we continue discussing or we agree to disagree if that is too much to take.
Everybody talks about thief stealth like it’s a thing to rage at, but I think that there’s equally this problem the thief presents: to fight a thief you must anticipate their actions.
The problem is lots of people in this game are terrible, and act without any real logic. So you’ll see people stealth and unstealth randomly, use shadowstep inefficiently (if not crazily), or otherwise embarass themselves. Those people, you fight one way. Then you meet the people who understand how to bamf about sagaciously, how to chain stealth, and how to use thief’s stealth as a control option to win attrition fights, and how to actually use their burst to affect teamfights. These people can be beat, but require very different strategies.
The two strategies are generally mutually exclusive. And it can be difficult to adjust the strategy midflight. In tPvP, teams work this out (and the rando hapless folks are rare). In sPvP, you can work it out by you will probably lose a fight if you guess wrong. In WvW, it’s really hard.
I know that’s what frustrates me when I fight thieves. I know what I could do to stop a variety of thieves on a variety of characters, but it takes a moment of seeing the thief in action to get that intel and usually the fight is altered significantly by the time you can adjust.
And I am not sure it can really be fixed. It’s a feature of the thief class: they get to initiate 9/10. And because of that they get to pace the fight good thieves can be incredibly difficult to read if they think you’re actually paying attention.
You can contrast this with other frustrating classes like the Mesmer, and you can see a different. Fighting a mesmer is hard because they confuse your vision, but you can generally figure out the build within a second and start to formulate a strategy. So while they’re annoying, they’re not nearly so much as the thief.
(edited by KirinDave.6451)
OMG that glass cannon thief just killed my glass cannon keyboard turning unkeybound char.
I AM MENT TO BE THE HERO OF TEH WORLDZ HOW DARE HE KILLZ ME.
thats normally what happens
Desolation EU
Fractal lvl 80 – 126 AR
Fractal lvl 80 – 126 AR
(edited by krixis.9538)
OMG that glass cannon thief just killed my glass cannon keyboard turning unkeybound char.
I AM MENT TO BE THE HERO OF TEH WORLDZ HOW DARE HE KILLZ ME.
thats normally what happens
That’s made me laugh.
I even bet they charge in while humming “I can be your hero”by Enrique Iglesias…
People keep complaining about spamming 2 with D/* as a finisher, but what would the alternative be? Autoattack? Deathblossom is decent for a condition build, DD is pitiful for real damage output now, and CnD would just put you back in stealth assuming you aren’t revealed. Other classes would use this opportunity to weapon swap, but due to our global cool down this wouldn’t do any good unless traited to 30 in acrobatics. So if you do switch and want to stay in close combat, you have the choice of sword and, oh yeah, sword. On sword you have auto attack, a gap closer, and either FS or PW depending on your offhand. Being able to spam HS is the trade-off for the lack of other abilities and being tied to a global cooldown.
Err. Uh. Every class (except Engineers) have the exact same constraints. Except that all the other classes are also constrained by the ability itself going on cooldown.
Thief is only limited by Initiative, hence the relative encouragement to spam abilities.
Except ele cycling through 20 weapon skills, or A/A +GS warriors, or engineers cycling through weapon kits, or necros switching between 2 distinct ranged weapons or short ranged weapons, or guardian switching between multiple close combat weapons. But to my point, other professions can blow through their whole skill bar, swap, and have a whole new set of abilities ready and blow through all of them, whereas a thief gains no benefit from the swich if he has burned through his initiative. Other classes may not be able to spam the same ability but certainly can still spam just as much.
When your argument does not revolve around editing the “opposition’s” point of view without offering any insights yourself, other than generally hinting at a class as OP then your comments will stop being taken as QQ,or if you prefer “forum whining”. Glad we are clear.
My argument has been much more than that, it’s not my problem you fail to look past my altering your text. That seems to have really ruffled your feathers, so I apologize for that.
From the small amount of information you have provided, you believe thieves are either rolling balls of death spamming HS til they are dry of initiative (then what after ? You didn’t elaborate) or they are condition specced. That shows to me that you either have never played a thief, or have not experimented with yours very much.
No, I do not live in a world of absolutes. Yes, the vast majority of Thieves are glass cannons of some sort — backstab and shortbow builds are popular, and yes, you do run across a number that Mug > CnD > BS > HS till you die. The Wild Bill P/D build is surging in popularity. Death Blossom condition builds are popular as well. If you need more help with builds, there’s a sticky at the top of each class forum.
To elaborate on your initiative concerns:
Opportunist
Signet Use
IoS
Patience
Klepto
HR
Last I checked, Initial Strike is still broken, so I won’t include it.
Stealth is also an option (and a precursor to some of the abilities anyway).
You also talk about initiative, and how it is encourages spamming.
Indeed there is no stopping a thief burning of of his initiative pressing 2 or 3 but where does that leave him afterward?
Unless of course you are facing a player that is just happy to take it, it is a very basic and may I say "stupid"build and won’t work on anyone with a bit of a brain.
Also to really be an effective enough method of taking down his opponents the said thief would have to invest heavily in power and precision, which leaves him with no survivability. Very risky build with little chance of paying off.
First, the Initiative bit. I don’t like Initiative as a class resource as it encourages spamming abilities, and discourages weapon swapping. Your Best Skill Available is … always available (contingent upon resource management). So there’s no need to swap to a secondary weapon, unless you’re using it for utility. I don’t like this because I feel the weapon swap is what gives GW2 it’s flavor and build diversity. It’s important that my Mesmer or Necro choose an appropriate swap weapon to complement my primary weapon’s damage. For the Thief, your choice is more for utility and escape, which limits diversity and the player having to make the right choice at the right time. This is all compounded by the stealth mechanic, which allows you to repeatedly reset a fight, allow your initiative to regain, and spam your BSA again.
Second, you basically just said to be effective, your hypothetical Thief would have to be … a glass cannon. “Very risky build with little chance of paying off.” Think about what you’re arguing here.
Perhaps for now on we can just infer what reasonable people would assume about some of the details instead of asking for everything to be spelled out.
I actually enjoy thieves. Since they are invisible most of the time it removes the need for me to actually look at my screen to play at a competent level. This frees me up to watch my favorite TV program, read the newspaper, or make eye contact with the people I converse with while I play GW2.
I personally love the thief class, but hate coming up against so many glass cannon builds… It used to be you could use a fairly tank like build and just hunt them down, but now in WvW at least thieves are traveling in packs. Once they pick a target if you’re unable to stealth you are done for.
Redundant Sasquatch – 80 Warrior – [aYe] – HoD
As long as thieves still jump into my blind well and miss all their burst I’m fine with everything.
¸ . ø ¤ º ° º ¤ ø . ¸ ¸ . ø ¤ º ° º ¤ ø . ¸
[Aia] Amoria- The guild of pleasant love
¸ . ø ¤ º ° º ¤ ø . ¸ ¸ . ø ¤ º ° º ¤ ø . ¸
[Aia] Amoria- The guild of pleasant love
¸ . ø ¤ º ° º ¤ ø . ¸ ¸ . ø ¤ º ° º ¤ ø . ¸
I play a thief as my main, and even I don’t like stealth. It’s the only mechanic in the game that creates a huge information imbalance between players in combat.
The stealthing thief does not have to plan/think/react as much as his opponent does, this makes it a lame mechanic.
tldr all of this crud…
I have 5 80s, all in exotics (one is a thief), I play well, I run solo or small group in WvW mostly and I can say without a doubt…
Thieves are OP,
They are one of the easiest classes to play.
The culling issues allow me to stay pretty much perma stealthed.
I can’t even get tab targetted when I AM visible for another second.
I can kill multiple people without even breaking a sweat.
AND if the zerg shows up I can high tail it out of there cackleing wildly the whole time.
DON’T get me wrong! I don’t want the thief nurfed, I WANT CULLING FIXED!!!
And until they fix that I think the hard timer on stealth should be increased by 1 – 1.5 seconds.
mis dos centavos.
80 Elementalist/80 Mesmer/80 Guardian/80 Thief
Now Musty Britches since someone decided Shortbus Rider was offensive… [LoS] [NSP]
Now Musty Britches since someone decided Shortbus Rider was offensive… [LoS] [NSP]
People fear what they can’t see and fear leads to hatred.
…and hatred leads to the darkside.
People fear what they can’t see and fear leads to hatred.
…and hatred leads to the darkside.
We have cookies.
It plays tricks on your mind. Both stealth and clones both confuse players. Confusion = frustration
The players who can keep their cool(and assuming they don’t have extreme glass cannon) will win.
Otherwise, thief isn’t really OP. Theres the blah blah blah kill me before I can notice, but that can be done with almost every class using the right build. A warrior killshotting you from behind. You will not notice. Ele burst from behind? Not notice, never until you’re dead. The only advantage thief gets in this situation is being able to escape.
Besides, backstab is such a horrible unefficient build. I lolstomp those guys everytime I see them. It’s as simple as utilizing blocks, invulnerabilitys, blinds, external armors, ect.
I think the hatred is general it towards glass cannon builds, thief just gets the most hate because we’re glass clannon + mind tricks. Hypocritical part is that I find that most of the people complaining are super glass cannon themself. A proper tank, assuming you aren’t horrible, should roll any glass cannon, thief or no thief.
Besides, backstab is such a horrible unefficient build. I lolstomp those guys everytime I see them.
Pretty much this. I usually have SoS active in WvW, and when a Thief is audacious enough to approach me in plain sight and blatantly activate Basilisk Venom, I can’t help but laugh. Oh, going to jump me with that, are you? Blind Nope. Even when they DO somehow find a good angle to get the first move and I don’t see it coming, I’m usually fast enough to react/break stun/retaliate. They run out of steam so fast.
Gnome Child [Gc]
Resident Thief
Resident Thief
There is also that great 3/4 second animation of a thief casting C&D before they steal. Perfect time to ready your defence, counter attack or dodge.
There is also that great 3/4 second animation of a thief casting C&D before they steal. Perfect time to ready your defence, counter attack or dodge.
Dodging CnD is a huge P/D killer, where timing is the most important, and missing a crucial CnD will kill you.
Wow, this is all because of stealth? Really? This is all because we can spam… really? I dont understand, thieves can spam but it costs initiative to do so, thus it hampers other useful abilities. Stealth is our play style, and we like to use the element of surprise. Why cant people deal with situations that require thinking, and not expect every single time to know when you are going to get attacked. Please, understand that thieves are different from other classes in which we have a special ability to sneak into the shadows to either flee or attack. Please understand to pay attention to other classes, they all have their strong points as well.
Wow, this is all because of stealth? Really? This is all because we can spam… really? I dont understand, thieves can spam but it costs initiative to do so, thus it hampers other useful abilities. Stealth is our play style, and we like to use the element of surprise. Why cant people deal with situations that require thinking, and not expect every single time to know when you are going to get attacked. Please, understand that thieves are different from other classes in which we have a special ability to sneak into the shadows to either flee or attack. Please understand to pay attention to other classes, they all have their strong points as well.
People understand that classes are different. That’s not the point.
It has nothing to do with requiring more or less ‘thought’. That’s not the point.
It has nothing to do with knowing every single time you’re going to get attacked. That’s not the point.
It has everything to do with the fact that many people just don’t like ‘stealth’. They find it annoying and obnoxious. It could do 1hp of damage on a crit. Thieves could implode into singularities if you click on them. Doesn’t matter. The ability itself, the playstyle itself is just friggin’ annoying. That’s it. Nothing more, nothing less. Has nothing to do with all of your self infatuation and ego stroking about your leet ninja awesomeness (referring to all of the players trying to claim some superiority over people who “don’t like to think” and whatever other nonsense keeps getting spewed).
It’s just annoying. People don’t like being annoyed. End of story. Thieves are like the kid that put rocks inside his snowballs during snowball wars in the park and then ran to hide behind his mommy crying when the other kids told him to get lost or were about to bust his jaw.
Blackwater Vanguard
Yaks Bend
Yaks Bend
Constantly stealthing then running away and spamming 1 and 2 while doing bullkitten crits. Has nothing to do with mind games or whatver the kitten you people are talking about. Its just a cheap and boring to fight class. Im a guardian so When I see a thief I laugh in his face while I stop him into the ground. But this is not uselly the case for other classes. And their are just sooooooooo many of them. Jesus chirst.
Ariel Ostrovsky
Blackgate/Guardian
Ayy Lmao
Blackgate/Guardian
Ayy Lmao
Constantly stealthing then running away and spamming 1 and 2 while doing bullkitten crits. Has nothing to do with mind games or whatver the kitten you people are talking about. Its just a cheap and boring to fight class. Im a guardian so When I see a thief I laugh in his face while I stop him into the ground. But this is not uselly the case for other classes. And their are just sooooooooo many of them. Jesus chirst.
So basically what you’re saying is that thief is OP and should be nerfed because it’s cheap and boring, but you’re a guardian so your class is better and you can kill them, yet guardian is not OP?
And stealth plays minds tricks and annoys people. That’s the most annoying part of thief. If thief had no stealth you realize it would be nothing but a warrior? 5 stacks of bleed from my pistol is enough to make a glass cannon thief run. That’s how insanely squishy they are. I’m sure good players, no matter what class, don’t have trouble fighting backstab thieves.
I should really get around to making a guide around these forums with unique “counters” depending on what class people have. I can’t stand it when people call a thief OP because they saw a video of some strewn together clips of a glass cannon killing other glass cannons from behind. Even a freaking warrior using killshot, if from behind, would have knocked him down. If you run glass cannon you have no right to complain about dying fast to any class, whatsoever.
Constantly stealthing then running away and spamming 1 and 2 while doing bullkitten crits. Has nothing to do with mind games or whatver the kitten you people are talking about. Its just a cheap and boring to fight class. Im a guardian so When I see a thief I laugh in his face while I stop him into the ground. But this is not uselly the case for other classes. And their are just sooooooooo many of them. Jesus chirst.
So basically what you’re saying is that thief is OP and should be nerfed because it’s cheap and boring, but you’re a guardian so your class is better and you can kill them, yet guardian is not OP?
Actually that’s not even remotely close to what he’s “basically saying”.
Like, at all.
Perhaps in self-martyr-thief-world it translates that way, but in good old reality what he’s basically saying is what many other people have said (and ya’ll keep trying to twist around):
Thieves are annoying. I can beat them, sure. They’re just annoying and no fun to fight.
That’s it. How you even came up with your “basically saying” premise is astounding.
Blackwater Vanguard
Yaks Bend
Yaks Bend
As for me, i don’t care about stealth/high burst D/D build. If you can manage to evade or counter the thief, there’s a good chance for you to turn the table around. High burst d/d builds are very squishy. Worst case, they stealth away and might try to get you again in a few sec.
Right now, what really grinds my gears, is how they can finish you off or another player while in stealth. Now that is some big BS.
For me personally, the Thief’s stealth mechanic is just frustrating, plain and simple.
That said, I hardly ever play PvP, so it’s not exactly hatred and more of an “Ugh, not that kitten again”.
(edited by Aequitas.6402)
Here’s why I hate thieves in a few words.
“Hi. My name is Average Joe McMMO player. What class does the highest damage? Oh? Thief does? Okay, I’ll make a unique thief build that does insane amount of damage.
+5% damage with daggers, awesome…2 Sigils of Force….bonus damage and crits when attacking from behind….omg. Backstab does a lot of damage, and there’s a trait that does 100% crit while in stealth! If I combine that with backstab…OH MY GOD. With this build, I’ll be unstoppable! Time to test it out in battle!
Blinding power -> Awkwardly position myself behind target -> Backstab -> Haste -> HEART SEEKER HEART SEEKER HEART SEEKER HEART SEEKER HEART SEEKER
Omg he’s downed, time to finish him off. HEART SEEKER HEART SEEKER DEATH BLOSSOM "
I’m a tanky, healing guardian. I rarely have problems with DPS thieves. But why I don’t like them is how generic the builds I come across are. Not only that, but they can do so much damage without even grasping how to use the class properly. I see people using Heartseeker, over and over, when the target’s HP is full. This isn’t just “Enemy” thieves I hate. This is thieves in general, and I don’t hate the people playing them.
This is true of all professions. not just thieves. What I hate about thieves is how the traits seem to funnel most people into using the same generic build. That build just happens to be super massive glass cannon. I hate when my thief teammates think Heart Seeking is god’s gift to thief too, especially when they use it as an opening attack.
When I see a Dagger/Dagger thief, it’s always one of two builds. It’s either omgbackstabyolo (90%) or Condition. It’s just boring. Easiest way to beat a D/D thief is simply not get hit in the back, because the ruins 80% of their damage output. (which they often just stealth away and try to do it again.)
TL;DR I don’t hate thieves. I hate generic thief builds. I don’t care if you perma-stealth, if you run away, if you shadowstep everywhere. It doesn’t bother me. It’s just that thieves always look appealing to new players, and backstab build then looks delicious to them. So the result is, like I had yesterday in SPVP, 6 thieves running almost identical builds, on one team, at that. It’s just boring. And kind of sad to see.
Edit: My thief build is focused on snaring, chasing down running enemies, and general control. Best part is, it’s not 30/30/0/10/0
It’s really simple, most people who complain and hate on thieves are solely looking at them from WvWvW. A game mode that is deliberately unbalanced and mostly just for fun.
Thieves in sPvP are generally the underdog in terms of balance. You either depend on one trick ponies to guarantee you a kill, or you do meaningless damage, spec balanced or survival and run away a lot.
Generally, what Roughneck said is true.
All classes have something that makes them seem “overpowered” in specific situations. Likewise, there’s certain situations where all classes can feel “underpowered”, too.
Most of these situations are created by inexperienced/unskilled players who lack the patience or desire to learn from their mistakes. Instead of learning they simply coming to the forum and starting whining like a 3 year old baby.
There’s a very simple method to fixing the problem though. It’s called teamwork. Being a “hero” doesn’t exist in MMO’s (specifically in PvP), it just tends to annoy people and make you look unskilled.
Because in addition to being overpowered, its the class with the lowest learning curve. Anyone can pick up a thief and in a couple of hours be able to take on even the most experienced players using the weakest classes.
Also, stealth makes thieves extremely annoying because whenever they get outplayed they can just stealth and run away, when any other class would have to die in that situation.
Anyone can pick up a thief and in a couple of hours be able to take on even the most experienced players using the weakest classes.
we know this is 100% completely false. And we know that anyone that claims something so outrageous knows absolutely nothing about the class other than ‘QQ this thief stabbed me a few times and i was too slow to react’
edit – here you go with some proof. i know you causal gamers love Taugrim. here he is, talking about the backstab build, and talking about how. . .
“This setup puts out MASSIVE amounts of DPS but takes a lot of skill execute properly”
(edited by FourTwenty.4268)
The culling bug makes stealth god mode in WvWvW. That’s why thieves are hated.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
People hate thieves and mesmers because they require a brain to be countered.
The culling bug makes stealth god mode in WvWvW. That’s why thieves are hated.
I will agree with this, delays on coming back from stealth has attributed to the hate. This should be fixed asap.
People hate thieves and mesmers because they require a brain to be countered.
I agree here too, it also takes quick reflexes to not keep eating backstabs. Also a lot of people will panic/get flustered when they need to go on the offensive.
No, people hate thieves in WvWvW because they often die without ever being able to fight back.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
They hate us because 90% of the users in this game play warriors that can hit another player for 24k damage one hit and cry when they get hit for anything over 4k
They hate us because 90% of the users in this game play warriors that can hit another player for 24k damage one hit and cry when they get hit for anything over 4k
Hey, I can make false generalizations too!
They hate you because 90% of you were wasting peoples time kittening at supply camps with perma invis or roflstomping upleveleds with mug-cnd-bs and then thinking that it made you good.
They hate us because 90% of the users in this game play warriors that can hit another player for 24k damage one hit and cry when they get hit for anything over 4k
I’ve been hit for >10 k may times by thieves, despite all exotics and toughness upgrades. I’ve never been hit that hard by a warrior. Why? I can see the warrior and dodge the 4 s cast time shot, lol.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Look, thief burst is fine. The fact that they are capable of a “cheesy” 3-hit combo and spam-2-to-win under 50% health is also completely fine. They are the premier assassin class, after all. What isn’t okay is a thief’s ability to approach a target stealthed for 10 seconds under Shadow Refuge. That specific application of the stealth mechanic is broken.
The thief is also the only class, when they fail to assassinate said target, that is able to (through stealth, multiple evades, and shadowsteps) instantly retreat, reset a fight, and try again with no repercussions. There is practically no risk for a thief in this regard.
The thief is also the only class, when they fail to assassinate said target, that is able to (through stealth, multiple evades, and shadowsteps) instantly retreat, reset a fight, and try again with no repercussions. There is practically no risk for a thief in this regard.
You can pretend Thieves have unlimited initiative if you want, but that’s just not true. It costs SIX initiative for even 1 infiltrators arrow. That’s more than 50% of the your total allotted resource lol.
You can pretend we Thieves can stealth 24/7 but the more stealths/evades/shadowsteps(lol what? i guess you mean the 6 initiative arrow or maybe heartseeker) a thief uses for escape, they are unable to use for their initial burst attack
disclaimer, i do agree culling bug needs to be fixed
Right now, what really grinds my gears, is how they can finish you off or another player while in stealth. Now that is some big BS.
Engineer can shrink and finish off people being able to evade all attacks. Also any class with Haste can finish someone off in like 1sec before they can do anything about it.
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