Guild Wars 2

Was it really that OP? I used to be able to carry games once in a while with my P/P build, and now I not only hit like a mosquito, I’m just as squishy, with less range, damage, and utility.

Why? What did P/P thieves do to Anet?

Whip it out in public too much.

You actually have way more damage that got rolled in and from traits you can pick now, and because your not locked into picking initiative traits you get to pick up a TON of utility from other traits.

The only thing p/p lost was a tiny bit of range, and ricochet.

Scootabuser.4915:

You actually have way more damage that got rolled in and from traits you can pick now, and because your not locked into picking initiative traits you get to pick up a TON of utility from other traits.

The only thing p/p lost was a tiny bit of range, and ricochet.

Ricochet provided the AOE damage that the P/P build desperately needs. Losing the range is a huge blow—-even in PvE.

But, more importantly, it is/was a FUN build to play.

Sorry—-Anet blew it on this one.

Agreed. I like p/p but can you imagine people letting p/p thieves into 40+ fractals? Playing p/p = social death.

Scootabuser.4915:

You actually have way more damage that got rolled in and from traits you can pick now, and because your not locked into picking initiative traits you get to pick up a TON of utility from other traits.

The only thing p/p lost was a tiny bit of range, and ricochet.

Ricochet was the only thing pistol had going for it, and without it there’s really no reason to use it. Ever. Sure you can pick more traits and you’re probably more powerful overall (and so is everyone else), but why would you waste that new found power on such a gutter tier weapon? The range was reduced, the shots only hit one target, and rolling together ankle shot and pistol mastery is an overall loss in damage because now the 10% damage bonus only applies to crippled enemies. And what did pistol get to make up for this? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Getting extra traits doesn’t excuse any of this either because that helps all thieves and all weapons. So while sword, dagger, and shortbow reap the benefits of more traits pistol is rendered useless with its sub-mediocre single target damage.

This is @$$net’s build diversity philosophy. Take something that’s already strong and make it stronger while nerfing other things that are already under performing.

I can never figure out why they consistently do so many idiotic changes. It’s like they honestly try to fail, with how poor their patches come out and then how long terrible issues persist.

@$$net just sucks at what they do. Their artists / musicians are fine, they don’t suck, but when it comes to coding / balance … hahaha, what a great joke.

:l

In WvW P/P is working fine. Yes it only single target but at range you can lay on lots of damage.

Unfortunately I did not meet much in the way of heavy armor wearers but each individial shot on the various keep champions as example was doing 1200 damage or close to 10k on a single unload at range. You can tune this down a bit and take IP instead for sustain.

Due to vitality loss overll we are more fragile then before but that not the set doing it.

Yes there more damage output with d/p and d/d but there is something to be said for melting an Engineer at range who wants to stand in his aoe fields. Do not worry about the AOE. Remain on the fringes of a battle and just unload on those who get too close to the battles edges. They drop quickly.

In WvW P/P with food buffs (and assuming ascended gear?) is doing less damage than SPvP backstab crits. Not to mention the loss of range + ricochet which helped deal with things like minion necros and rangers + pets.

Those conditions severely affect the performance of P/P and D/P or D/D, hell even S/D and S/P are infinitely superior options. Pistols didn’t need any kind of nerfs, much like shortbow … but I guess since backstab and sword damage is so potentially high now, better nerf pistols and shortbow!

Seriously TF? I can’t even believe this. Richotte was SERIOUSLY the only thing P/P had going for it, they have completely killed a FUN build, and that build was the only thing that made thief PvP enjoyable for me….which was the only thing that made PvP enjoyable for me. I’m absolutely at the end of my rope. This is kitten stupid. I might seriously quit ALL PvP play now…and frankly that doesn’t spell well for continuing to play GW once I’m bored leveling characters up because….oh yeah there is still no end game.

THIS WAS A BIG MISTAKE. I guess I can recycle my 80 Thief.

I’ve been playing and trying to make P/P work ever since I made a thief two years ago. Through nerf, change, and brimstone, I have always maintained that P/P is something that CAN WORK, if Anet puts a little more effort into making it possible.

This kicked the can. P/P is dead. Playing it in PvP is literally asking to lose. I’m so disappointed I don’t really know what to say, other than that Anet’s promise of ‘play as you like’ was one huge, huge lie.

I’m very disappointed that ricochet is gone.

P/P Did work! In Skyhammer, when you got get above a group fighting over a point! It was awesome. Gone is the joy of perching up in the torches over the gate in Silent Temple and almost all reason I ever decided that PvP was enjoyable instead the realm of awful people!

That sucks!

Oh what’s this? FFXIV has a two week free trial….

Don’t mind if I do.

It’s most likely because thief elite spec is getting rifle. The spec will probably revolve around rifle and pistols, Assassin style

Azure.8670:

It’s most likely because thief elite spec is getting rifle. The spec will probably revolve around rifle and pistols, Assassin style

You’re behind the times. Signs point towards thief getting staff.

Been with GW2 from the beta. I have also been the worst thief NA since beta! I’m an old guy with some health issues plus a low skill cap, so thief has been my bane from the start. I rolled a P/P-SB (full PTV set) and decided I would just go have fun pew pewing in WvW. (the teenager in me loves making that noise from unload) I found I could solo camps, keep up with most other players (or hide and run like heck), lock down players for my group, and basically felt like a Swiss Army Knife on the playing field. Not so great at everything but pretty handy at a lot of thing.
My knee jerk feelings to the changes to P/P and SB was one of eminence sadness but to be fair I have not had a good chance to play around with it yet. Sounds like sadness buff inc.
I do hope that one day the good folks at Anet will make the pistol/ pistol build a great option for those of us that get a bang out of life.

Azure.8670:

It’s most likely because thief elite spec is getting rifle. The spec will probably revolve around rifle and pistols, Assassin style

Oh do I have some news for you…

I wonder will we get a real Anet reply on this, or will they just ignore it, its clearly a main trait that was removed, and yet no one knows why,

Why do they completely destroy builds so that no one will play them anymore,

Yes I want to hit 1 Necro/Guard/Mesmer, while they hit my entire party in returns, some logic in that.

Wayne.9714:

Been with GW2 from the beta. I have also been the worst thief NA since beta! I’m an old guy with some health issues plus a low skill cap, so thief has been my bane from the start. I rolled a P/P-SB (full PTV set) and decided I would just go have fun pew pewing in WvW. (the teenager in me loves making that noise from unload) I found I could solo camps, keep up with most other players (or hide and run like heck), lock down players for my group, and basically felt like a Swiss Army Knife on the playing field. Not so great at everything but pretty handy at a lot of thing.
My knee jerk feelings to the changes to P/P and SB was one of eminence sadness but to be fair I have not had a good chance to play around with it yet. Sounds like sadness buff inc.
I do hope that one day the good folks at Anet will make the pistol/ pistol build a great option for those of us that get a bang out of life.

Agreed. P/P and SB may not have been on meta, but it was one of the most enjoyable sets to play in the game. Hopefully we’ll get some love soon.

Vio.7361:

Scootabuser.4915:

You actually have way more damage that got rolled in and from traits you can pick now, and because your not locked into picking initiative traits you get to pick up a TON of utility from other traits.

The only thing p/p lost was a tiny bit of range, and ricochet.

Ricochet provided the AOE damage that the P/P build desperately needs. Losing the range is a huge blow—-even in PvE.

But, more importantly, it is/was a FUN build to play.

Sorry—-Anet blew it on this one.

There’s no accounting for taste, but how was P/P fun? Unload spamming is fun?

Having watched the live steam they never even acknowledged it’s removal or explained it. I think players have a right to know the logic behind it particularly kitten many have used it as the main focus of their build.

Oh the irony.

I never cared about ricochet, since for multiple targets, shortbow was at least twice as strong and 4 points into trickery was too much anyway. Now opportunist is gone, but it can be replaced with Quick Pockets, and playing P/P in both weaponsets (instead of sb) actually makes sense. And now I really wish I had a trait that gives my guns a bit AoE damage…

Scootabuser.4915:

You actually have way more damage that got rolled in and from traits you can pick now, and because your not locked into picking initiative traits you get to pick up a TON of utility from other traits.

The only thing p/p lost was a tiny bit of range, and ricochet.

It didn’t lose any range. I am not sure why this isn’t displayed on the tooltip, but, going into critical strikes and selecting ankle shots also increases pistol range to 1050 (don’t know if this was intended or not)

James Quall.6029:

Azure.8670:

It’s most likely because thief elite spec is getting rifle. The spec will probably revolve around rifle and pistols, Assassin style

You’re behind the times. Signs point towards thief getting staff.

Still that doesn’t mean the elite spec would have no pistol traits. 1-2 pistol specific traits + some traits that improve general survivability/cc options (which if we actually get staff would probably be most suited as traits) would be enough to breathe some new life into p/p.

A few of the big selling points of the game early on.
Starting at :23 and again at :47 (see link)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD4aaHOISx8

Scootabuser.4915:

The only thing p/p lost was a tiny bit of range, and ricochet.

So what exactly is left??? Those two were what made the build somewhat effective.

nikdik.1934:

Scootabuser.4915:

The only thing p/p lost was a tiny bit of range, and ricochet.

So what exactly is left??? Those two were what made the build somewhat effective.

And 10% base damage.

Nothing is left but the pistols themselves.

there is ankle shots. no?

I’m going to try it out later, actually. I noticed in the patch notes that Combined Training is now baseline- an extra 5% damage on all dual skills, which always applies to our main damage dealer.

Maybe not all is lost? I really liked p/p… gotta try to make it work again.

p/p just as fun as it was for me even managed a 1v2 but I guess that does not say much at this point but don’t write it off just yet!

Just because Ricochet is gone doesn’t mean P/P is dead.

Don’t you all love how A-net just completely gutted the viability of p/p, instead of, you know … actually compensating the huge nerfs in some way, such as giving pistols pierce, or reworking Ricochet to be less RNG-based (since that was apparently why it was removed)?

A-net’s handling of pistols strikes me as short-sighted and even apathetic. It’s like they didn’t even bother trying to make it viable.

I loved my p/p thief to death. And now I have to rework the character because my favorite build is no longer viable. It’s not like p/p was overpowered to begin with … why nerf lesser-used niche builds? What sense does that make?!?

Same reason they removed/ignore underwater combat and Charr armor. They don’t feel like fixing it anymoar and since not as many people use it they just discard. If P/P was moderately good to the point where a lot of people used it even if it was flawed they might of buffed it. Unpopular things are tossed out.

It is especially dead for open world pve, which is what a majority of players play. No bounce also makes it completely useless in WvW to tag zergs. The only place I can see it being used is in small scale PvP against mostly inexperienced players.

I think they’re trying to change it to a single target hybrid setup. With pressure striking, confusion on steal, uncatchable, trappers respite, and ankle shots, i think you might have a decent build. I have not tried this, it’s just pure speculation, but there might be other builds out there now.

I used it with traps, and it allright imo, burst damage is pritty kitten high as well esspecially with quicness. you can burst them quicer then they can escape your traps.. ofc situational. but try it dont even need trapper runes (was using valkyrie/traveler armor)
rapit fire hit about 10k, autoattack 1.5k

I might redo my own setup as Zerker/Carrion, or perhaps Celestial. Toss a set of Perplex Runes on. ANet wants to play the “P/P is only single-target, hurrr!” game, I’ll kittened well make some sorry mooks regret it.

Guys, this is an official forum! Stop playing with your P/Ps!

Scootabuser.4915:

You actually have way more damage that got rolled in and from traits you can pick now, and because your not locked into picking initiative traits you get to pick up a TON of utility from other traits.

The only thing p/p lost was a tiny bit of range, and ricochet.

yeah except taking away ricochet is a huge debuff to pistol

It wouldn’t be as bad if they just changed bodyshot to a damaging AOE. The skills still awful.

Ricochet was one of my favorite things about dual pistols! I loved it and have had it on my thief since I discovered it. I like dual pistols anyway because firing away with a gun in each hand is inherently cool. But Ricochet made it truly awesome and fun to play.

If there is anything I would ask of Anet, it is to bring Ricochet back!

Velimere.7685:

Guys, this is an official forum! Stop playing with your P/Ps!

Sigh… I suppose this joke was bound to show up sooner or later.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Still that doesn’t mean the elite spec would have no pistol traits. 1-2 pistol specific traits + some traits that improve general survivability/cc options (which if we actually get staff would probably be most suited as traits) would be enough to breathe some new life into p/p.

But there’s no reason at all to believe this would happen. Have any of the elite specs they’ve shown off ever had traits to improve weapons or skills that aren’t directly associated with them?

And even if it did, why lock it behind a tree that you need to have the expansion to own? Why split pistol related traits into two trees when they could easily roll it into ankle shot? It’s all wishful thinking that is unfortunately not based in the sad reality. Anet replaced something that works with nothing that doesn’t.

Seabreeze.8437:

Sigh… I suppose this joke was bound to show up sooner or later.

It actually showed up in the first post.

Thief isn’t getting staff, atleast I truly believe we arent. I’ve seen the pic but it’s like seeing my wife kiss another man but the sun was in my eye, I refuse to believe it. We are getting a rifle, the pistols will pierce and bouce and the spec will be gunslinger. Anyone who says anything else is a traitor against freedom

James Quall.6029:

It actually showed up in the first post.

Yeah I know. I tried to ignore it. Oh well.

I get what you’re saying about how the other elites don’t have traits for existing weapons tied to them though. I guess we’re all just trying to make sense of such a nonsensical decision. There really was no logical reason why dual pistols got the boot.

And no, I absolutely don’t buy that “too random/reduced the purity of pistol” excuse. It’s complete and utter BS. Hell, bouncing arrows from a short bow makes less sense than trick-shooting bullets to bounce around enemies (not trying to bash short bow… just trying to use it as a comparison).

Scootabuser.4915:

You actually have way more damage that got rolled in and from traits you can pick now, and because your not locked into picking initiative traits you get to pick up a TON of utility from other traits.

The only thing p/p lost was a tiny bit of range, and ricochet.

I think the loss of ricochet is a huge deal, and a deal breaker for the weapon set. p/p is a very risky weapon set to run, and as far as single target damage goes it was outshone by the dagger loadouts- with ricochet there was a very easily justified use of p/p as a kind of riot gear set.

The loss of ricochet pushes p/p behind many other sets- too much risk for too little reward is most cases.

Seabreeze.8437:

And no, I absolutely don’t buy that “too random/reduced the purity of pistol” excuse.

Pistol is pure garbage, and they didn’t like ricochet muddying its purity by making pistols useable and fun.

Having tried it out now:

It sucks losing Ricochet for PvE, but I actually like p/p better in sPvP for now. I have ranged spike damage (with cripple/immob traited), venomshare support (with an additional charge built in), and 5 sources of stealth (with 25% damage reduction traited in) to survive with the new system (HiS, SR, BP, Steal, Last Refuge [with Vamp Runes of course]). It’s actually a lot more survivable and team-friendly than it was pre-patch, for me.

Then again, devs might be nerfing the ridiculous damage we’re seeing in PvP across the board… so this might go away soon. It’s the glass cannon meta that makes a cc supporting, ranged stealth spec so strong.

Who knows where it’ll end up, but I have no sPvP complaints for p/p. Then again, I have no clue what I’ll be running in WvW now. My Knight’s armor set became worthless, and my p/p PvP spec lacks the needed mobility pretty badly. It could work if you have a small havoc team with a source of swiftness, though.