Guild Wars 2

Because there is no counterplay to stealth.

Svarty.8019:

Because there is no counterplay to stealth.

Yes. 100% agree with you. Putting down AoE is too kitten hard.

AlCojester.4316:

Svarty.8019:

Because there is no counterplay to stealth.

Yes. 100% agree with you. Putting down AoE is too kitten hard.

Dont be an idiot please.

AlCojester.4316:

Svarty.8019:

Because there is no counterplay to stealth.

Yes. 100% agree with you. Putting down AoE is too kitten hard.

it’s not really that there’s no counterplay but that there’s no way to do anything to stop the initial burst that comes from stealth when you can’t see them coming… because they are invisible.

In wvw you often don’t see them coming or you see them go into stealth and then have to guess when they attack while they have all the time in the world to sit in stealth while you dodge around and waste skills trying to mitigate the coming burst. And then if you do get a lucky dodge you are punished because the thief just stays stealthed… lol wat.

it really is kittened.

vespers.1759:

AlCojester.4316:

Svarty.8019:

Because there is no counterplay to stealth.

Yes. 100% agree with you. Putting down AoE is too kitten hard.

it’s not really that there’s no counterplay but that there’s no way to do anything to stop the initial burst that comes from stealth when you can’t see them coming… because they are invisible.

In wvw you often don’t see them coming or you see them go into stealth and then have to guess when they attack while they have all the time in the world to sit in stealth while you dodge around and waste skills trying to mitigate the coming burst. And then if you do get a lucky dodge you are punished because the thief just stays stealthed… lol wat.

it really is kittened.

^This is what I meant by, “there no counterplay to stealth”.

:D Of course there isn’t any counterplay. So please, stand still as if you were afk when the thief goes into stealth. Doing anything else has been discussed to death and people believe is useless. Please, please, stand still.

Because for some reason active defense doesn’t work against backstabs.

People get mad because there is no hard-counter to stealth. Despite there being more than enough soft-counters players want hard-counters because they believe those kinds of counters define balance.

vespers.1759:

it’s not really that there’s no counterplay but that there’s no way to do anything to stop the initial burst that comes from stealth when you can’t see them coming… because they are invisible.

Thieves are rarely invisible before they engage. Thieves cannot remain stealthed indefinitely – and only D/P thieves can even have stealth up without being in combat. Sources of stealth last 3 seconds, dude.

LB rangers and kill shot warriors have the same effect in WvW. You can’t keep track of everyone so one of these guys cheese-balls you from 1200-1500 range. You only hate thieves because you can see them kill you and know what happened.

In wvw you often don’t see them coming or you see them go into stealth and then have to guess when they attack while they have all the time in the world to sit in stealth while you dodge around and waste skills trying to mitigate the coming burst. And then if you do get a lucky dodge you are punished because the thief just stays stealthed… lol wat.

it really is kittened.

Complaining about losing to a Thief in WvW is usually ridiculous. If you’re zerging, you’re probably using horribad spec that relies on 20 other people as its main form of defense. You can’t complain about dying to a Thief if you’re specced to do nothing but AoE burst zergs. If you’re actually using a spec that good for skirmishing/roaming/dueling then you can beat any thief 1v1 as almost any class.

You sound like another one of those guys who loses to thieves before they even attack you. You instantly panic. You try to run away instead of fight back. You have no idea what he’s doing or why he’s doing it. You have exactly one line of strategy when a Thief gets on you and it is to immediately hit Signet of Stone/Mist Form/Endure Pain/Death Shroud and run to your allies.

The idea that stealth has no counter play is ridiculous. It’s like saying the only counter play to Warrior stuns is a long cooldown stun breaker. How about you dodge, blind, block, or interrupt him? Same exact stuff works on Thief stealth skills. Once the Thief achieves stealth, he is in the same spot he was when he wasn’t in stealth. Just press 1 and you get to deal free damage on the Thief. There are counters to stop stealth in the first place and to punish stealth when it works. If you think stealth has no counter play you’re simply ignorant to how it works.

Oh, some other awesome reasons that tend to be brought up in QQ threads are:
It’s not fair.
It’s not challenging.

In the end it seems to boil down to “counterplay” and:

yolo swaggins.2570:

People get mad because there is no hard-counter to stealth. Despite there being more than enough soft-counters players want hard-counters because they believe those kinds of counters define balance.

Anyone rejecting the usefulness of soft counters and then proceeding to argue that there are no counters to stealth suffers from the STEALTHZORS syndrome. When you see someone your arguing against has this terrible condition, just let them win the argument because you will never be able to.

morbidillusion.2759:

vespers.1759:

it’s not really that there’s no counterplay but that there’s no way to do anything to stop the initial burst that comes from stealth when you can’t see them coming… because they are invisible.

Thieves are rarely invisible before they engage. Thieves cannot remain stealthed indefinitely – and only D/P thieves can even have stealth up without being in combat. Sources of stealth last 3 seconds, dude.

LB rangers and kill shot warriors have the same effect in WvW. You can’t keep track of everyone so one of these guys cheese-balls you from 1200-1500 range. You only hate thieves because you can see them kill you and know what happened.

In wvw you often don’t see them coming or you see them go into stealth and then have to guess when they attack while they have all the time in the world to sit in stealth while you dodge around and waste skills trying to mitigate the coming burst. And then if you do get a lucky dodge you are punished because the thief just stays stealthed… lol wat.

it really is kittened.

Complaining about losing to a Thief in WvW is usually ridiculous. If you’re zerging, you’re probably using horribad spec that relies on 20 other people as its main form of defense. You can’t complain about dying to a Thief if you’re specced to do nothing but AoE burst zergs. If you’re actually using a spec that good for skirmishing/roaming/dueling then you can beat any thief 1v1 as almost any class.

You sound like another one of those guys who loses to thieves before they even attack you. You instantly panic. You try to run away instead of fight back. You have no idea what he’s doing or why he’s doing it. You have exactly one line of strategy when a Thief gets on you and it is to immediately hit Signet of Stone/Mist Form/Endure Pain/Death Shroud and run to your allies.

The idea that stealth has no counter play is ridiculous. It’s like saying the only counter play to Warrior stuns is a long cooldown stun breaker. How about you dodge, blind, block, or interrupt him? Same exact stuff works on Thief stealth skills. Once the Thief achieves stealth, he is in the same spot he was when he wasn’t in stealth. Just press 1 and you get to deal free damage on the Thief. There are counters to stop stealth in the first place and to punish stealth when it works. If you think stealth has no counter play you’re simply ignorant to how it works.

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.technobuffalo.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F06%2FSeinfeld-Leaving.gif&f=1

Zero Day.2594:

Oh, some other awesome reasons that tend to be brought up in QQ threads are:
It’s not fair.
It’s not challenging.

In the end it seems to boil down to “counterplay” and:

yolo swaggins.2570:

People get mad because there is no hard-counter to stealth. Despite there being more than enough soft-counters players want hard-counters because they believe those kinds of counters define balance.

Anyone rejecting the usefulness of soft counters and then proceeding to argue that there are no counters to stealth suffers from the STEALTHZORS syndrome. When you see someone your arguing against has this terrible condition, just let them win the argument because you will never be able to.

Funny thing is there really is no argument. In a game with self-sufficient classes, it is usually their fault they died. And arguing with people who understand a class more than them does not make it any better.

Can’t wait for the next “balance” patch though, whenever that happens.

“This is why stealth action game so often fail. Stealth and action are at odd of each other”

“Stealth is about solving a puzzle”

This is why people get mad:

Thief Profession do not require solving “no brainer”

Thief Profession do not require skills,

Thief Profession do not require risk,

Thief Profession Stealth only requirement is reward, free reward for doing nothing.

This is why Thief Profession is Fail Design.

(If you want to argue with me: do research on Square Enix-Ninja Profession. Yes Ninja-Master of True Stealth and Master of Assassination. Than compare difference and write it here)

(Also compare Assassin- True Master of Assassination from Guild Wars 1 with thief from Guild Wars 2 and write here also: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin )

Here is hint:

1. Thief is not True Master of Stealth
2. Thief is not True Master of Assassination

Question 1- How is Thief Profession- is more Powerful than Ninja-True Master of Stealth?
Question 2- How is Thief Profession- is more Powerful than Assassin Profession-True Master of Assassination?
Question 3- How is Thief Profession- more Powerful than both of them all in 1 profession?
Last Question- Why would Arena net design a Profession having all of other Profession in 1 Profession?

Obvious: That is why people get mad, That is why Thief Profession need to be re-design

See last video: " What Is A Game?“-Risk and Reward-”Work for it and get Reward"

Very last video- " No Risk, No Nothing!! "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBHBk-A4a5M

Zarania, do you see why people get mad? There should not be any exception when it come to challenge and fun but there is. Arena net design thief class with Reward First and No Risk mentality. If you want more evidence of why people are mad: read 2 years old thread merge with Arena net: Yes, it is same problem 2 years ago-

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-thief-and-its-gameplay-Your-feedback-Merged/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-damage-is-OP/first#post67999

DarkSyze.8627:

I have uneducated opinions and fail to grasp that my failings at being able to defeat the thief class could possibly be my own fault and continue to blame a design that has been in place for over 2 years since launch instead of working to improve my own personal skills.

Its ok guys, I took the time to translate the response.

go soloq as a mesmer and come back write about how you felt.

@Zarania

Besides all the answers, the most “correct” answer is DarkSyze’s – since it’s directly from someone that gets mad at the class constantly.

Btw DarkSyze, just because you can’t seem to see risk or challenge in certain things, doesn’t mean that they don’t exist – well they don’t exist to you at least.

Judging by how freely you keep saying (across multiple threads):

Thief Profession do not require solving “no brainer”
Thief Profession do not require skills,
Thief Profession do not require risk,
Thief Profession Stealth only requirement is reward, free reward for doing nothing.

I’m very confident in your abilities as a professional thief player that is able to win tournaments that involve money. You should consider picking this up, you could make a buck or two easily given what you say.

DarkSyze.8627:

“This is why stealth action game so often fail. Stealth and action are at odd of each other”

“Stealth is about solving a puzzle”

This is why people get mad:

That’s actually pretty spot on.

The exception is: The one that need to solves the puzzle is the guy fighting the thief and not the thief itself.

Once you learn to solve the puzzle, you learn to fight the thief.

DarkSyze.8627:

the rest of the video doesnt matter since it’s talking about offline games gameplay.

Thief Profession do not require solving “no brainer”
Thief Profession do not require skills,
Thief Profession do not require risk,
Thief Profession Stealth only requirement is reward, free reward for doing nothing.

This is why Thief Profession is Fail Design.

(If you want to argue with me: do research on Square Enix-Ninja Profession. Yes Ninja-Master of True Stealth and Master of Assassination. Than compare difference and write it here)

(Also compare Assassin- True Master of Assassination from Guild Wars 1 with thief from Guild Wars 2 and write here also: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin )

Ignoring the rant.
Final Fantasy XIV is not an action game like GW2.
Don’t even bother to bring their ninja here as an argument.

And ANET already confirmed that they renamed the Assassin to Thief because of plot reason (Cantha isn’t in the game). It’s the same class.

DarkSyze.8627:

Here is hint:

1. Thief is not True Master of Stealth
2. Thief is not True Master of Assassination

Question 1- How is Thief Profession- is more Powerful than Ninja-True Master of Stealth?
Question 2- How is Thief Profession- is more Powerful than Assassin Profession-True Master of Assassination?
Question 3- How is Thief Profession- more Powerful than both of them all in 1 profession?
Last Question- Why would Arena net design a Profession having all of other Profession in 1 Profession?

Obvious: That is why people get mad, That is why Thief Profession need to be re-design

They could make a stealth class and name it “Jedi” and wouldn’t make a difference.
The name of the class means kitten . Thief is the Assassin/Stealth based class on Gw2.
In fact, with the specializations there is a high chance the thief’s may get a sub-class named Ninja at some point in the game.

DarkSyze.8627:

See last video: " What Is A Game?“-Risk and Reward-”Work for it and get Reward"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2hQvfpAisI

Very last video- " No Risk, No Nothing!! "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBHBk-A4a5M

None of these videos are relevant for this situation.
Offline games only work on rewarding the challenges until the end of the game.

Its completely and utterly different from a MMo where one person will win and one person will lose.

DarkSyze.8627:

Zarania, do you see why people get mad? There should not be any exception when it come to challenge and fun but there is. Arena net design thief class with Reward First and No Risk mentality. If you want more evidence of why people are mad: read 2 years old thread merge with Arena net: Yes, it is same problem 2 years ago-

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-thief-and-its-gameplay-Your-feedback-Merged/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-damage-is-OP/first#post67999

Because linking post of people as clueless as you makes any difference.
I mean really, 2 years and you still have problems with stealth?

If you seriously refused to learn how to deal with stealth, at least change to a class that it’s a hard counter to a burst thief, like engineer, guardian or necromancer.

All of this for WvW, ofc.
Unless you area a mesmer, then I can accept that you are complaining about thieves in sPvp as well.

SoulSin.5682:

Snip.

Don’t bother arguing with DarkSyze.8627, he’s either a really good troll or just someone really bad at the game.

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

SoulSin.5682:

Snip.

Don’t bother arguing with DarkSyze.8627, he’s either a really good troll or just someone really bad at the game.

Oh, don’t worry. It’s just that sometimes I feel like writing.

:/ I wish Burnfall was still around. He would write beautiful poetry in these kind of threads…

They just need to actually play the GC backstab build and understand what it’s like to die in 2 hits at any given time by even bunker builds with low dmg output. Even worse in spvp because if you get countered by any form of cc, stunbreak, teleport and so on you have 8 hours of reveal to give you plenty of time to die instantly. Yes 1 second of reveal to a backstab Thief actually translates to 8 hours.

I’ve heard it said that arguing with some people is like trying to play chess with a pigeon. It doesn’t matter if your play is so brilliant that it would make Kasparov weep, the pigeon will still knock over your pieces, kitten on the board, and strut around like it won.

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

SoulSin.5682:

Snip.

Don’t bother arguing with DarkSyze.8627, he’s either a really good troll or just someone really bad at the game.

Don’t do that its the thieves turn to keep him occupied for the good of the total community. Think of it as a challenge.

Zero Day.2594:

:/ I wish Burnfall was still around. He would write beautiful poetry in these kind of threads…

I think I chased him off when I started copying his style…..

My bad

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

SoulSin.5682:

Snip.

Don’t bother arguing with DarkSyze.8627, he’s either a really good troll or just someone really bad at the game.

You should say “at games”. Comparing to diffrent game designs is like comparing SUV type car to all-terrain Land Rover.

IDK about you guys, but playing as a thief, i encountered players with every single class that actually killed me. Not just one class, all classes can beat the kitten out of a thief…

but to do that you actually need to know your own class and how a thief works.

OFC most people just want the easy way out and complain until arena net breaks and ruins the thief completly.

I even saw people on the forum ask Anet to take the stealth or most of it away and just give the thief a little more def/hp….THAT WOULD RESULT IN A NOT SO GOOD WARRIOR, and instead of playing that it would be better to actually play the real warrior.

No one complains about how a Ranger can kill you from 1200-1500 or how a mesmer can have a thousand illusions, and when you kill one it explodes in your face… or how engi with tourets are actually really annoying, Stun, Damage, and self heal…it’s almost impossible to kill one of those.

But a squishy thief goes into stealth…omg game breaker…every class has a counter to this, and when all fail go AOE.

Learn to play your own class well and then talk about others… and stop comparing GW2 with other games

SpiritSpeakerOfHoelbrak.3980:

I take great delight in baiting thieves with greatsword, switch to rifle and can land 10k worth of volley on them.Just before they evade then stealth, pop killshot.Even better if they steal as signet of might is there for these occasions.

You end up with a dead Thief. What’s interesting is if I ever get whispers its to convey respect at “aw man that 10+k crit, gg”.

If I get kitten by a thief I’ll go hunting for him. I used to get frustrated and rage over losing to them but you know what, I kept practising till the tide turned and now most end up running from me.

Exactly what i meant…if you know your class well…you have the means necesary to beat a thief. But most players are to busy crying about it on the forums than actually learning how to go Mano a Mano vs a thief….

People want the easy Win…not the Win Win…

DarkSyze.8627:

snip

Stealth thieves are op. Evade thieves are op. Thief teleport is op. Thief everything is op.

Funny thing is, thieves are still few of the active fighting mechanic classes in the game (vs. Passive defenses like warrior, necromancer, turret engineer). I would rate active playing by far more favorable than passive, but somewhere along the line that seems to have changed. Thieves are still by far not great at anything else than decapping/hunting squishies; any sustain class has the upper hand in a 1v1 situation. More often than learning to force the thuef on the defensive, however, people tend to yell op and get rekt by easy mechanics. It’s the same people who would rate any celestial warrior, elementalist or an engineer build as balanced, skillful set to play.

The only real nuisances as thieves are; other zerker classes getting shut down in pvp and the atrocious PD teefs in wvw. But the latter is just pure gimmick and not useful in any regard aside wvw dueling so you can already rule that out.

this class is one of those classes in video games designed to make bad people cry even though it’s not as bad as the baddies think LOL. i see it happen in most games

(1) Bad players do exist and are very vocal (sadly) with little (if any) self-reflection involved (sadly) … this results in any and all thieves being complained about.

(2) Thief has an awesomely high skill ceiling … this allows those cream-of-the-crop Thieves to do amazing things leave even good players facedown in the dirt … but it is skill coupled with the fact that the Thief class isn’t inhibiting that skill.

Honestly, if I could go back in time, I’d just have rolled Thief when GW2 first came out, not made any alts, and aspired to be one of those Thieves as it is truly amazing to watch them … even when you’re watching them stomp you.

(3) There is little counterplay to a 3+ sec stealth as most active defenses don’t last that long … but there is some counterplay as has been discussed to death given that you can try to prevent a good bit of their stealth, use AOEs/Cleaves (if your build has them), etc.. Doesn’t match my personal preference on counterplay, but there is some counterplay to it*

(4) Thief has hard counters to it just like other classes do. Thief is just mobile enough to get away from their hard counters which are often less mobile than them. When a Thief hard counters you … sorry … you got hard countered by a cheetah … it’s going to catch you if it wants to :-)

(5) Every class is OP/UP :-p

Counting to three then dodging is so hard. Predicting where someone who only has a couple seconds will be is so hard(ProTip: By you unless they are tucking tail) Oh and you can even see if they go to stack more stealth while they are in stealth. Being observant is just too much for people. If you are just walking along and eat a burst, you just weren’t paying enough attention.

Akagami.9861:

…No one complains about how…..

This is a lie because I complain about this all the time

But the real response to all this is:

Svarty.8019:

Because there is no counterplay to stealth.

For terrible players that’s true.

Zero Day.2594:

But the real response to all this is:

Paulie.6215:

Svarty.8019:

Because there is no counterplay to stealth.

For terrible players that’s true.

These are the posts the OP was baiting for. Good job. And… WRONG.

NeroGuilt.4720:

Counting to three then dodging is so hard.

I don’t completely disagree, but not all Thieves wait three seconds before trying to backstab :-p

NeroGuilt.4720:

Predicting where someone who only has a couple seconds will be is so hard

It’s hard enough that we don’t have threads about Thieves complaining about Engineers killing them with grenades thrown at where the Thief was predicted to be ;-)

Anyone in melee with a Thief when they stealth though should be able to land ~2 hits at least though given that you can see your character continue their AA chain each time you land a hit.

NeroGuilt.4720:

Oh and you can even see if they go to stack more stealth while they are in stealth. Being observant is just too much for people.

True enough :-)
I’d argue for some people … not all ;-)

NeroGuilt.4720:

If you are just walking along and eat a burst, you just weren’t paying enough attention.

Usually. We used to have a sub-group for our havoc squad that was 5 Thieves. That’s a special case though. A very special, painful case :-)

Svarty.8019:

Because there is no counterplay to stealth.

My Engie build rolles over mesmsers and thieves in teamfights. Being able to reveal them is a great counter. The other is having experience with the classes. Most of the time, I can chase invisible enemies and still be right on top of them when they reappear. It just takes practice to know which way the player is moving. Some thieves are too good to keep up with, due to their insane mobility, but that is not just stealth related. If thief goes stealth near you, get rdy for a backstab, if you get him low and he stealths, move towards where you’d move if you were him and running for it.

Also, backstab does poor damage from the front, so try to face him. And don’t hold a single orientation for too long, you become backstab bait. Basically, thieves and mesmers are like skelk, you don’t stop attacking when they go invisible, you lay down the hurt. Players sometimes do fancy maneuvers, but if he had to blow a shadowstep to get behind you, its only fair you’d have to blow abilities to counter. (you can also see the white circle appear)

Good luck.

Sebrent.3625:

(1) Bad players do exist and are very vocal (sadly) with little (if any) self-reflection involved (sadly) ... this results in any and all thieves being complained about.

(2) Thief has an awesomely high skill ceiling ... this allows those cream-of-the-crop Thieves to do amazing things leave even good players facedown in the dirt ... but it is skill coupled with the fact that the Thief class isn’t inhibiting that skill.

^This. I love thief QQ. Have enjoyed it in every MMO in which I’ve main’ed a thief/assassin.

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

SoulSin.5682:

Snip.

Don’t bother arguing with DarkSyze.8627, he’s either a really good troll or just someone really bad at the game.

Sometimes its fun to feed them either way though! ;3

Nobody likes dying.

Except me. Game gets boring slaying glass thieves all night with longbow pewpewpew. Gotta spiral down to zerker gs ranger vs zerker dagger thief to feel alive once in a while.

Svarty.8019:

Because there is no counterplay to stealth.

Thats the whole point of it. Theif is already bad in pvp. None would play it if they could always dodge their attacks. Its called stealth attack for a reason.

I play every class except Ele. I’m going to be honest and say that teef is my least played of my classes (he’s still lvl 80). The reason for that, and the reason why I dislike facing teefs, is because they are not properly punished for missing attacks.

On my Warrior, when I play zerker it’s important that I don’t miss any of my important attacks. The attacks hit hard but are highly telegraphed. I feel a sense of accomplishment when I land all of my best attacks.

I don’t feel this sense of accomplishment on teef. If I’m D/P and go for a backstab and the other player dodges/evades/blocks/etc rather than being punished with a reveal I am instead allowed to attempt to attack again or I can stealth again and go for another backstab.

Similar situation with most teef builds, there’s always some way out of a situation that feels “cheap” to me. With Sword I can use the 2 skill through obstacles which means that when something goes wrong I can return safely behind cover and start the process all over again. P/D basically plays itself, a shame because the aesthetic of said weapon set is great.

You would think a class based on ambushing your target would punish you for fumbling your assassination attempt. That would make being successful more rewarding. It would also make forcing those fumbles to happen more fun on the other player. Right now, teef is a chore to play against even if you win.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I play every class except Ele. I’m going to be honest and say that teef is my least played of my classes (he’s still lvl 80). The reason for that, and the reason why I dislike facing teefs, is because they are not properly punished for missing attacks.

On my Warrior, when I play zerker it’s important that I don’t miss any of my important attacks. The attacks hit hard but are highly telegraphed. I feel a sense of accomplishment when I land all of my best attacks.

I don’t feel this sense of accomplishment on teef. If I’m D/P and go for a backstab and the other player dodges/evades/blocks/etc rather than being punished with a reveal I am instead allowed to attempt to attack again or I can stealth again and go for another backstab.

Similar situation with most teef builds, there’s always some way out of a situation that feels “cheap” to me. With Sword I can use the 2 skill through obstacles which means that when something goes wrong I can return safely behind cover and start the process all over again. P/D basically plays itself, a shame because the aesthetic of said weapon set is great.

You would think a class based on ambushing your target would punish you for fumbling your assassination attempt. That would make being successful more rewarding. It would also make forcing those fumbles to happen more fun on the other player. Right now, teef is a chore to play against even if you win.

This..thief fights bore me as a mesmer, because 5minutes of the fight is me anticipating when there going to open while they spam stealth off clones…I play Mtd with 24khp and 3.1k armor, the burst isn’t issue, it’s the fact they can negate most my damage once it’s applied while wearing me down thanks to stealth spam. I can land my shatters multiple times stacking massive amounts of coniditions, then all they have to do is enter stealth to negate 90% of the damage, multiple times vs’s thiefs I’ve landed 3 shatter combos (17stacks of torment 18stacks of confusion) for them to just enter stealth and come back out with 90% health and no conditions on them..your not punished for letting me land my burst in the first place, yet if I fail to land my burst and force you to back off, I am most definatly punished -_-

Zarania.6235:

when you kill them through backstabs?

either its 1 backstab
or its 2
or its 3
and if you’re a guardian or necro its 4.

so whats the issue with people crying about it? its soooo annoying when they flame you for it. like im sorry* im using the skills anet created for me to use to kill you.

*http://i.imgur.com/g0MAlA8.gif

Because, depending on what you play, there is too often very little you can do to counter it. People who say you can always be on the move and use AoE are either morons or trolling.

Of course if you know there is a thief in your vicinity this changes everything even if stealth will remain kittening annoying at best for most builds. However, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too often you don’t know there is a thief in WvW until your life is well below 50% if not outright very close to 0 if player is full glass.

Unless you are a precog, a paranoiac or the kind of people who throw away AoE left or right for no apparent reasons when you move in WvW and always move like a drunk person no matter what, there really isn’t any counter to an initial strike coming from stealth you had no idea was there.

The pewpew stealth (trapper rune) longbow rangers have all my hate too btw.

Thieves aren’t hard to play. Stop making it seem like using stealth or shadow step is hard. It’s not. Stealth really was poorly implemented and now they just can’t go back. There’s no counterplay, there’s no soft counterplay against a thief who knows how to use its kit effectively. CC during revealed buff? Please. Like thieves aren’t constantly aware of that and ready to dodge during the time their actually vulnerable.

Shinoobi.1259:

Thieves aren’t hard to play. Stop making it seem like using stealth or shadow step is hard. It’s not. Stealth really was poorly implemented and now they just can’t go back. There’s no counterplay, there’s no soft counterplay against a thief who knows how to use its kit effectively. CC during revealed buff? Please. Like thieves aren’t constantly aware of that and ready to dodge during the time their actually vulnerable.

Correction. They CAN be hard to play. OTOH, some builds are ridiculously easy to get reward out of them for almost no risk at all. Now, which of these builds are running rampant in WvW I wonder… hmmm

If you just walk backwards and swing your weapon in most cases thief won’t have enough stealth time to backstab you, so he will wwaste it on facestab or just run out of stealth. SA thieves are sure annoying as hell, but backstab itself should be totally fine for anyone who played thief ever once.

Terkov.4138:

If you just walk backwards and swing your weapon in most cases thief won’t have enough stealth time to backstab you, so he will wwaste it on facestab or just run out of stealth. SA thieves are sure annoying as hell, but backstab itself should be totally fine for anyone who played thief ever once.

Again, that is only true if you know there is a thief to begin with unless you are telling ppl that they should do it everywhere they go always… This really doesn’t help to counter a first strike from a thief you had no idea was there.

Shinoobi.1259:

Thieves aren’t hard to play. Stop making it seem like using stealth or shadow step is hard. It’s not. Stealth really was poorly implemented and now they just can’t go back. There’s no counterplay, there’s no soft counterplay against a thief who knows how to use its kit effectively. CC during revealed buff? Please. Like thieves aren’t constantly aware of that and ready to dodge during the time their actually vulnerable.

Ah there it is!
The cry of the person who has never played the profession! Was waiting for this. And tell me, oh expert of stealth, what are your thoughts on PU mesmers, or mesmers in general, who have similar access to stealth?