Ankur
(edited by DarkSyze.8627)
Thieves aren’t hard to play. Stop making it seem like using stealth or shadow step is hard. It’s not. Stealth really was poorly implemented and now they just can’t go back. There’s no counterplay, there’s no soft counterplay against a thief who knows how to use its kit effectively. CC during revealed buff? Please. Like thieves aren’t constantly aware of that and ready to dodge during the time their actually vulnerable.
Ah there it is!
The cry of the person who has never played the profession! Was waiting for this. And tell me, oh expert of stealth, what are your thoughts on PU mesmers, or mesmers in general, who have similar access to stealth?
Few minute ago: i took risk to try wvw: less than 2 seconds i was instant kill by thief. no complain, no reason be mad anymore: i am re-logging in to play a challenge, fun and risk-reward job/profession: Ninja. Bye.
(edited by DarkSyze.8627)
I see they got rid of the utsusemi skills (from FFXI) guess they finally learned that if you build it they will blink tank with it.
I see they got rid of the utsusemi skills (from FFXI) guess *they finally learned that if you build it they will blink tank with it.
You are correct
" You keep making the same mistakes yet wonder why you’re getting the same results"
" Don’t keep making the same mistakes . They will catch up with you and leave you with nothing "
(edited by DarkSyze.8627)
Thieves aren’t hard to play. Stop making it seem like using stealth or shadow step is hard. It’s not. Stealth really was poorly implemented and now they just can’t go back. There’s no counterplay, there’s no soft counterplay against a thief who knows how to use its kit effectively. CC during revealed buff? Please. Like thieves aren’t constantly aware of that and ready to dodge during the time their actually vulnerable.
Ah there it is!
The cry of the person who has never played the profession! Was waiting for this. And tell me, oh expert of stealth, what are your thoughts on PU mesmers, or mesmers in general, who have similar access to stealth?Few minute ago: i took risk to try wvw: less than 2 seconds i was instant kill by thief. no complain, no reason be mad anymore: i am re-logging in to play a challenge, fun and risk-reward job/profession: Ninja.
Bye.
-Buy a disruption trap
-Use some supplies
-30 sec reveal
-????
-Profit/seriousL2P
Or
-Be me
-Be thief
-Revealed for 30 seconds 2 times in 5 minutes
-Q.Q
That is why Sword/Dagger Thief is better … doesn’t care that you took away stealth … it just has a higher skill floor so you don’t see it as often as the Dagger/Pistol thief.
It can also steal boons with weaponset, not just steal. Anything to counter all this boon-stacking garbage has a special place in my heart. An action game shouldn’t have “boon stacking” be so effective.
Thieves aren’t hard to play. Stop making it seem like using stealth or shadow step is hard. It’s not. Stealth really was poorly implemented and now they just can’t go back. There’s no counterplay, there’s no soft counterplay against a thief who knows how to use its kit effectively. CC during revealed buff? Please. Like thieves aren’t constantly aware of that and ready to dodge during the time their actually vulnerable.
Ah there it is!
The cry of the person who has never played the profession! Was waiting for this. And tell me, oh expert of stealth, what are your thoughts on PU mesmers, or mesmers in general, who have similar access to stealth?
I don’t think you’ll find many Mesmers that think PU is fun. It’s not even super effective at killing anything quickly, it’s a slow bleed out. PU is the only Mes build I can think of that has excessive stealth. Your standard Shatter or CI Mes has enough stealth for sustain, but it doesn’t feel excessive. They also don’t lose conditions and heal while stealthed unlike teef.
You’re comparing apples to oranges. Most Mesmer builds that aren’t built for trolling have just the right amount of stealth. Builds like D/P or P/D on the other hand are designing around stealthing CONSTANTLY. It isn’t about being able to beat them or not, it simply isn’t fun for most players to fight someone that does nothing but stealth and blind.
What’s even worse is if you don’t have access to a skill with reveal even if you do take the advantage a “good” teef can either stack a ton of stealth or swap to SB and escape. Even worse, when it comes to D/P they’ll lose all their conditions which means it’s easier to exit combat and reengage before the enemy leaves combat.
Sure, I can beat your average teef as a Shoutbow, GS/LB, GS/Axe, or GS/Hammer Warrior, but it’s rarely fun on my end. You basically end up focusing on cleansing blinds until they blow their steal and then punish.
The mindset of a player playing thief is also to blame at some level. The class seems to attract the most elite jerks in the game, and even the no so great ones have severe attitude problems (in general, not all). I attribute it to the playstyle of the thief.
When I play my thief, I’ve noticed that I play more like an jack*** than with any of my other characters. Dunno why, its a subconcious thing i guess, but on any other class i’m friendly, helpful, etc. Put me on a thief, and i’m bloodthirsty, vengeful semi-jerk who’ll chase a target all over gods creation and farm them into oblivion just for looking at me funny…
The mindset of a player playing thief is also to blame at some level. The class seems to attract the most elite jerks in the game, and even the no so great ones have severe attitude problems (in general, not all). I attribute it to the playstyle of the thief.
When I play my thief, I’ve noticed that I play more like an jack*** than with any of my other characters. Dunno why, its a subconcious thing i guess, but on any other class i’m friendly, helpful, etc. Put me on a thief, and i’m bloodthirsty, vengeful semi-jerk who’ll chase a target all over gods creation and farm them into oblivion just for looking at me funny…
Fighting one turns me super salty. Fighting almost any other class, I’ll probably be able to enjoy myself (unless you crate me in a duel, really man?). With teef, it’s almost never enjoyable unless it’s a gag build.
I know duels aren’t important, but teefs are almost always really bad mannered. They move up so they can Steal instantly and they often don’t even wait for your /bow to finish (or they skip bowing altogether) so you lose a quarter or more of your health instantly. What’s worse is that if you call them out on their BS you’ll get “lol QQ more” “lol u mad?” “haha so salt” ect. but if you beat them they’ll insult you, your build, and your mother.
It seems like most trolls are also teef players as well. I agree that the playstyle may have something to do with it.
The mindset of a player playing thief is also to blame at some level. The class seems to attract the most elite jerks in the game, and even the no so great ones have severe attitude problems (in general, not all). I attribute it to the playstyle of the thief.
When I play my thief, I’ve noticed that I play more like an jack*** than with any of my other characters. Dunno why, its a subconcious thing i guess, but on any other class i’m friendly, helpful, etc. Put me on a thief, and i’m bloodthirsty, vengeful semi-jerk who’ll chase a target all over gods creation and farm them into oblivion just for looking at me funny…
Thief’s support role is purely offensive. Do you think that has anything to do with it?
The mindset of a player playing thief is also to blame at some level. The class seems to attract the most elite jerks in the game, and even the no so great ones have severe attitude problems (in general, not all). I attribute it to the playstyle of the thief.
When I play my thief, I’ve noticed that I play more like an jack*** than with any of my other characters. Dunno why, its a subconcious thing i guess, but on any other class i’m friendly, helpful, etc. Put me on a thief, and i’m bloodthirsty, vengeful semi-jerk who’ll chase a target all over gods creation and farm them into oblivion just for looking at me funny…
Thief’s support role is purely offensive. Do you think that has anything to do with it?
It is not only offensive. How many times was I saved by a friendly thief when on the verge of being stomped? How many time was I granted free passage in hostile territory because of a thief? Nah, it’s not that.
Some thieves I’ve met were gentlemen but way more often the ones I see and remember were behaving like total kittenes deriving their pleasure out of others misery. Many of my friends told me the trollish aspect available from that profession is what made them want to play it. It’s a troll kit given flesh.
indeed sirbeau.. i run SA traits and Shadow Refuge even on a shorter cooldowns just to heal up and stealth my team. well not only but yea.. ^^
when it comes to backstabs? i have no idea why people get mad.. if thief BS’abbed you just AOE and most likely ull find a dead body after your AOE (especially if u r a guardian). so thats how “OP” it is. AOE AOE AOE and OP’ness will be dead on the floor.
Aye, Dave. That highlights why I’m effected less by stealth on my Engineer than I am on my Mesmer/Ranger (build dependent, of course)
The funny thing is that stealth thieves are pretty much the weakest build there is except for WvW roaming. You can’t deal damage when stealthed, you can’t get any cap point contribution, and yet you can still take AoE and Cleave damage. Taking any utilities for stealth simply reduce the thief’s ability to clear conditions, pull, summon, stunbreak and/or deal damage.
Most average PvP players are capable of using active defenses on backstab, and the better ones can predict where thieves will move under stealth because the number of ways to get behind a target is limited.
The thief specs that people should fear are the interrupt/cc based ones, not the weak stealth crap.
Im sorry* I’m using the skills anet created for me to use to kill you.
*http://i.imgur.com/g0MAlA8.gif
Because I don’t really care what people think is fair if they’re trying to argue that a class’s hinging mechanic is overpowered. There’s a team getting actual money to make sure things are balanced.
The valid concerns get addressed while people wanting to undo class mechanics at the seams get ignored.
(edited by Azure The Heartless.3261)
If you just walk backwards and swing your weapon in most cases thief won’t have enough stealth time to backstab you, so he will wwaste it on facestab or just run out of stealth. SA thieves are sure annoying as hell, but backstab itself should be totally fine for anyone who played thief ever once.
Why the emphasis on backstab? Just a facestabbing thief can kill you and just stealth when you try to counter him. Facestab, stealth, facestab, stealth. You die either way.
Don’t pretend there’s a punishment for missing a backstab. It hardly matters.
There’s a team getting actual money to make sure things are balanced.
They needed to be sacked before the game got released. Stealth is the biggest mistake any game can make. I say this as a Dark Age of Camelot shadowblade (rogue) of four years.
(edited by Svarty.8019)
If you just walk backwards and swing your weapon in most cases thief won’t have enough stealth time to backstab you, so he will wwaste it on facestab or just run out of stealth. SA thieves are sure annoying as hell, but backstab itself should be totally fine for anyone who played thief ever once.
Why the emphasis on backstab? Just a facestabbing thief can kill you and just stealth when you try to counter him. Facestab, stealth, facestab, stealth. You die either way.
Don’t pretend there’s a punishment for missing a backstab. It hardly matters.
There’s a team getting actual money to make sure things are balanced.
They needed to be sacked before the game got released. Stealth is the biggest mistake any game can make. I say this as a Dark Age of Camelot shadowblade (rogue) of four years.
Please don’t compare DAoC or WoW, or any other MMO stealth to GW2 stealth. They are not even close to similar.
If you just walk backwards and swing your weapon in most cases thief won’t have enough stealth time to backstab you, so he will wwaste it on facestab or just run out of stealth. SA thieves are sure annoying as hell, but backstab itself should be totally fine for anyone who played thief ever once.
Why the emphasis on backstab? Just a facestabbing thief can kill you and just stealth when you try to counter him. Facestab, stealth, facestab, stealth. You die either way.
Don’t pretend there’s a punishment for missing a backstab. It hardly matters.
There’s a team getting actual money to make sure things are balanced.
They needed to be sacked before the game got released. Stealth is the biggest mistake any game can make. I say this as a Dark Age of Camelot shadowblade (rogue) of four years.
You are correct! Did you know Guild Wars never had stealth in result: it made Guild Wars very popular, fun and risk-reward challenging? Imagine Guild Wars 2 was improve version of Guild Wars- just imagine?
I did a lot of research in Guild Wars: Assassin Profession: see for yourself how fun, challenging-risk reward this profession was? yes, again!! with no stealth and with no reward first than risk after.
————————————————————————————————————————————
Read this:
This is Perfect Example of Arena net Thief Profession: “Stealth and Empowerment Why the —-——— are Failures”
http://www.nuclearfridge.com/2011/11/feature-stealth-and-empowerment-why.html
“My focus will be on the singleplayer modes of the —-—— – and all of the shortcomings that arise from fundamental flaws with their design philosophies”
“A child could play —-—— and probably do really well. The difficulty barrier for the games is set abysmally low – and seems to get lower with each successive game. In the earlier entries of the series, combat revolved mainly around mashing a single button and occasionally executing a two-button counter. It requires little manual dexterity and an average sense of timing”.
“To sum things up, kitten was easy. Furthermore, killing guards in the —-——- series usually results in some spectacular, over-the-top killing animations, and everybody loves these. The later entries into the series seemed to parody this, introducing killstreaks (allowing the player to instantly kill at the push of a button) and double kills (seriously, what?), making the game even easier. In short, a player only needs to input a small amount of effort in order to ensure a far greater output”.
“After reflecting on all of these considerations, we seem to see the inherent problem with the design of the —-——- series: it empowers the player far too much. While this is perfect for the action portion of the game, it makes the stealth portion of the game completely irrelevant. Good stealth means empowerment through disempowerment, such as in —-———— "
“In that game, taking guards head-on is never a good idea. Christian Bal- er, Adam Jensen is by no means a bullet sponge, no matter how many augments he gets. This is what makes stealth rewarding: while a player is not required to use it, it greatly increases the player’s chances of survival. Furthermore, stealthy takedowns are pretty kitten cool, making the player feel like something straight out of Predator. In this manner, —-———- manages to encourage players to take a stealthy approach”.
“The same take on stealth holds true in —-——-. While Batman has a high level of martial skill, he’s not infallible – bullets will put down the Bat very quickly. That’s why he – and you, the player – naturally enter stealth mode in a room filled with armed guards. Batman’s potential takedowns, combined with enemies getting increasingly frightened, are what empower and reward the player as he plays stealthily. You can fight these guards head-on, of course, but it will take a wise use of gadgets and a careful consideration of every attack you make. In this kind of situation, the player’s high input will be matched by a high output – a perfect balance”.
Anonymous- “This is exactly what i was saying! but fanboys will blindly defend the game, saying it’s perfect in all ways, and doesnt need to be fixed, i love to stealthily kill some dude in this game, but since there is little to no consequence to just head on murder them, i must annoyingly force myself to use stealth!”
(edited by DarkSyze.8627)
………………….incoherent babbling…………………….
Just…stop. None of that has anything to do with the mechanics of this game’s stealth, or how it’s used, or it’s weaknesses, or the profession’s weakness in general. Please, just play the freaking profession already, after all the complaining you have done regarding Thieves alone, it is clear as day that you have not even tried it out.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ <—— read through all of these, many of them pertain to past posts I’ve seen you make regarding this manner.
1. create a mesmer
2. join in spvp
3. doesn’t really matter if the thief is d/p or s/d
4. see how steal is kitten
5. rage quit
If you just walk backwards and swing your weapon in most cases thief won’t have enough stealth time to backstab you, so he will wwaste it on facestab or just run out of stealth. SA thieves are sure annoying as hell, but backstab itself should be totally fine for anyone who played thief ever once.
Why the emphasis on backstab? Just a facestabbing thief can kill you and just stealth when you try to counter him. Facestab, stealth, facestab, stealth. You die either way.
Don’t pretend there’s a punishment for missing a backstab. It hardly matters.
There’s a team getting actual money to make sure things are balanced.
They needed to be sacked before the game got released. Stealth is the biggest mistake any game can make. I say this as a Dark Age of Camelot shadowblade (rogue) of four years.
Please don’t compare DAoC or WoW, or any other MMO stealth to GW2 stealth. They are not even close to similar.
Invisibility is invisibility.
If you just walk backwards and swing your weapon in most cases thief won’t have enough stealth time to backstab you, so he will wwaste it on facestab or just run out of stealth. SA thieves are sure annoying as hell, but backstab itself should be totally fine for anyone who played thief ever once.
Why the emphasis on backstab? Just a facestabbing thief can kill you and just stealth when you try to counter him. Facestab, stealth, facestab, stealth. You die either way.
Don’t pretend there’s a punishment for missing a backstab. It hardly matters.
There’s a team getting actual money to make sure things are balanced.
They needed to be sacked before the game got released. Stealth is the biggest mistake any game can make. I say this as a Dark Age of Camelot shadowblade (rogue) of four years.
Please don’t compare DAoC or WoW, or any other MMO stealth to GW2 stealth. They are not even close to similar.
Invisibility is invisibility.
A game is a game, eh?
I’m not going to argue about why this game is bad because it has stealth and that other game that had stealth was bad so this one must be bad, that’s a waste of time.
I cant be bothered to argue for this at all anymore, actually.
If Anet wants to scrap the core mechanic of a class because people cant deal with a squishy med-armor vanishing for 3-10 seconds for at the very most three times in succession, go for it.
Gameplay for a thief becomes very difficult when the opponent knows he’s there and is expecting him, and since it is incredibly stupid to try to argue “Op wasn’t paying attention, made critical judgement errors” (even when it’s true), not even gonna bother, especially when the advocates for stealth removal think the balancing team should be fired for their heresy. Lol.
Feel free to continue arguing that it’s ruining the game. I get downed by too many good players to care.
Some thieves I’ve met were gentlemen but way more often the ones I see and remember were behaving like total kittenes deriving their pleasure out of others misery. Many of my friends told me the trollish aspect available from that profession is what made them want to play it. It’s a troll kit given flesh.
+1 to this though. Pretty sure this is only aggravating the problem. The nice-natured thieves are suffering for it though; so this shouldnt ever be a driving force for nerf-calling, just as an aside.
(edited by Azure The Heartless.3261)
Because there is no counterplay to stealth.
I’ve never felt this to be the case.
If my block is up, I use it after they go stealth. If it’s not, I lay down as many AOE’s as possible to keep pressure up on the thief and force him to be on the defensive. Backstab thieves are exceptionally squishy, so I find it fairly easy to keep pressure on them. Even just running around spamming 1 often is enough to counter them, or at least frustrate the thief enough to force him to make a mistake.
If you just walk backwards and swing your weapon in most cases thief won’t have enough stealth time to backstab you, so he will wwaste it on facestab or just run out of stealth. SA thieves are sure annoying as hell, but backstab itself should be totally fine for anyone who played thief ever once.
Why the emphasis on backstab? Just a facestabbing thief can kill you and just stealth when you try to counter him. Facestab, stealth, facestab, stealth. You die either way.
Don’t pretend there’s a punishment for missing a backstab. It hardly matters.
There’s a team getting actual money to make sure things are balanced.
They needed to be sacked before the game got released. Stealth is the biggest mistake any game can make. I say this as a Dark Age of Camelot shadowblade (rogue) of four years.
Please don’t compare DAoC or WoW, or any other MMO stealth to GW2 stealth. They are not even close to similar.
Invisibility is invisibility.
Did you enjoy your shadowblade? You know, the one where you stealthed in the middle of combat (you attacked again immediately, right?) and regained some hp, making your opponent fumble after you did that? Regained some endurance there, did ya? Did the Hibs or Albs ever hit you when they swung their weapons without an in-range target? (cause “you must have a target” and “target not in range” weren’t a thing, ever, nope, right…?)
To those playing the home game – none of those things were possible in DAoC. A game where the only in-combat stealth had a cooldown of 5 minutes, and you couldn’t attack for 10 seconds after using it. Also where you couldn’t swing your weapon or cast a spell (unless pbaoe spell) without a target, or even if the target wasn’t in range. So, not even close.
They go mad even they can’t kill you.
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