Guild Wars 2

The super OP deadly arts is gonna increase the gap between s/d and d/p even more, since d/p thieves can take a lot more advantage from immobilizes than s/d due to their devastating autoattack. S/D gameplay is the most reactive -and imo fun- playstyle, since you have to constantly be aware what your opponents are doing, unlike random blind, stealth spam + out-DPS kind of thieves.
Also the new Feline Grace trait is complete rubbish… u need a succesful dodge to trigger the Vigor(when you have to dodge a lot randomly against stealthed foes or any class with attack rates faster than reaction time), which is on THREEE?!?!?!?!?! seconds cooldown when a dodge roll lasts 0.75 seconds, so if you perma dodge you get it on every 4th or 5th dodge.
I’d just lower its cooldown to 0.75 sec and increase vigor potency by a larger amount like +50% vigor effectiveness to make up for the dodges possibly not evading anything and the slow nature of vigor opposed to instant endurance gain.(vigor can also be stolen or removed), furthermore vigor on heal trait cannot be taken, because of the lack of condition removal, so people have to take Pain Response instead.

Edit: in short: Even cele eles have permanent vigor, but thieves won’t…
Edit 2: Now that I think of it they should just change it back to 15 endurance gain instant but on all successful evades with 0.75 sec, and give back the 10% damage increase effect for 3rd minor trait. S/D already had the lowest zerker dmg anyway

yes s/d acro will be trash compared to panicSA dp.

Wait… Thieves can use Swords? How long has that been going on?

I think it’s a good change and rewards more skillful play. A lot of S/D survivability comes from nr 2 anyway.

I don’t know but 6 0 0 6 6 S/D will be friggin awesome. Much more damage since trait stats are gone + you get exe and panic strike…

Also that new master acro traits where steal gets -1 sec cd when u successfully evade an attack on sword sounds really strong… don’t remember if there was an ICD on it? If not omg this is gonna be so good

I think you’re misunderstanding Feline Grace. It only activates on a successful evade, AND THEN goes on its 3 second cooldown. This means if you’re perma dodging and actually evading attacks, you’ll have vigor for 2 out of every 3 seconds it activates. And if you have boon duration or just factor in the improved vigor trait…

Sizzle Hint.1820:

I think it’s a good change and rewards more skillful play. A lot of S/D survivability comes from nr 2 anyway.

I don’t know but 6 0 0 6 6 S/D will be friggin awesome. Much more damage since trait stats are gone + you get exe and panic strike…

Also that new master acro traits where steal gets -1 sec cd when u successfully evade an attack on sword sounds really strong… don’t remember if there was an ICD on it? If not omg this is gonna be so good

They didn’t say anything about internal CD but they will implement one I’m sure.
Yeah ofc 6 0 0 6 6 wil be better but each of the other classes get more buffs, and D/P thief can utilize panic strike way better, they just go 6 0 6 0 6 and they r invincible with more damage. The reason I’m sad is that S/D is already weaker than D/P in current meta and then nerf S/D traitline and buff Shadow arts for D/P and give them a free grandmaster immobilize trait.

Proven.2854:

I think you’re misunderstanding Feline Grace. It only activates on a successful evade, AND THEN goes on its 3 second cooldown. This means if you’re perma dodging and actually evading attacks, you’ll have vigor for 2 out of every 3 seconds it activates. And if you have boon duration or just factor in the improved vigor trait…

I’m not misunderstanding.
1. Acobatics won’t give boon duration anymore, and noone will chose 30% boon duration over 300 precision or power.
2. U cant permadodge forever
3. Thieves ATM have quite some vigor from Vigorous Recovery+steal(but ppl will not be able to take heal on vigor anymore because that would take the place of the condi remove ) this vigor as of now stacks with Feline Grace (gain 15 endurance on dodge).
After patch S/D thieves won’t be able to stack these, so in a small amount of time u can dodge less but if they insist on giving vigor then make up for the losses at least. As I said S/D thieves don’t always dodge attacks successfully because they have to predict attacks in many cases instead of relying on reflexes.
4. u say 20% extra vigor effectiveness but that means u get a dodge for free after 25 seconds of vigor (5sec vigor=1dodge) so it is way too weak.
5. 20%* vigor effectiveness* trait comes at the place of 10% damage increase so it isn’t even an upgrade in the first place.

You know, the funny thing is, the old feline grace had great synergy with any endurance refilling effects like vigor or sigil of energy, because it just meant, you’d get more dodges out of your endurance. Now they removed a trait, which was pretty much defining for thief and swapped it to something, almost any profession could do.

Having more dodges… The thief class was all about this. Why you gotta try to fix, what isn’t broken? Just why, Anet?

Yes, of course, they want a more boon driven system, but on a class with so many full endurance refills independent of vigor(signet of agility, hard to catch), why did they have to make the “more endurance” thing a vigor only thing?

Kicker.8203:

The super OP deadly arts is gonna increase the gap between s/d and d/p even more, since d/p thieves can take a lot more advantage from immobilizes than s/d due to their devastating autoattack. S/D gameplay is the most reactive -and imo fun- playstyle, since you have to constantly be aware what your opponents are doing, unlike random blind, stealth spam + out-DPS kind of thieves.
Also the new Feline Grace trait is complete rubbish… u need a succesful dodge to trigger the Vigor(when you have to dodge a lot randomly against stealthed foes or any class with attack rates faster than reaction time), which is on THREEE?!?!?!?!?! seconds cooldown when a dodge roll lasts 0.75 seconds, so if you perma dodge you get it on every 4th or 5th dodge.
I’d just lower its cooldown to 0.75 sec and increase vigor potency by a larger amount like +50% vigor effectiveness to make up for the dodges possibly not evading anything and the slow nature of vigor opposed to instant endurance gain.(vigor can also be stolen or removed), furthermore vigor on heal trait cannot be taken, because of the lack of condition removal, so people have to take Pain Response instead.

Edit: in short: Even cele eles have permanent vigor, but thieves won’t…

It’s not a successful dodge it’s a successful evade, they made a clarification of this during the stream… it’s any action you do that evades e.g S/D 3 or SB 3 or Dodge.

FZeroWing.2098:

Kicker.8203:

The super OP deadly arts is gonna increase the gap between s/d and d/p even more, since d/p thieves can take a lot more advantage from immobilizes than s/d due to their devastating autoattack. S/D gameplay is the most reactive -and imo fun- playstyle, since you have to constantly be aware what your opponents are doing, unlike random blind, stealth spam + out-DPS kind of thieves.
Also the new Feline Grace trait is complete rubbish… u need a succesful dodge to trigger the Vigor(when you have to dodge a lot randomly against stealthed foes or any class with attack rates faster than reaction time), which is on THREEE?!?!?!?!?! seconds cooldown when a dodge roll lasts 0.75 seconds, so if you perma dodge you get it on every 4th or 5th dodge.
I’d just lower its cooldown to 0.75 sec and increase vigor potency by a larger amount like +50% vigor effectiveness to make up for the dodges possibly not evading anything and the slow nature of vigor opposed to instant endurance gain.(vigor can also be stolen or removed), furthermore vigor on heal trait cannot be taken, because of the lack of condition removal, so people have to take Pain Response instead.

Edit: in short: Even cele eles have permanent vigor, but thieves won’t…

It’s not a successful dodge it’s a successful evade, they made a clarification of this during the stream… it’s any action you do that evades e.g S/D 3 or SB 3 or Dodge.

I see but it doesn even matter with 3 seconds of cooldown. It’s not even close to the usefulness it had.

I dont know…

D/P will be very strong yes

Although i think there is a lot of potential for S/D and even S/P aswell… synergy between trickery line + impro + swindlers equilibrium looks very interesting on paper.

Swindlers equilibrium is really interesting since it reduces steals recharge by 1s not just if you evade with flanking strike, it does on all your evades. Dodges, withdrawl, flanking strike, pistol whip in particular, as long as you stay on sword.

Sounds like a lot of stealing that can potentially recharge your withdrawl (trick now) which lets you evade more -> lower recharge -> steal again

Withdrawl can be traited for 12 sec cd now in the trickery line although it has to compete with bountiful. Have to see how much vigor uptime you will get from new acrobatics but looks like we will be running around with perma vigor now even without bountiful. With traited trick recharges you get more vigor from withdraw now aswell so might not be a neccessity anymore.

With impro you can also use stolen abilities twice now… with steal having a potentially lower CD than 21 sec now imagine how many consume plasmas you will be using vs a mesmer how long you gonna daze the guardian?

Maybe have to experiment with double S/D builds again using energy sigils for more dodges and less steal recharge i feel 10 sec steal recharge inc? Would be pretty crazy

Yea and top more damage (the stats u didnt get from CS + DA lines before) + panic strike

yes pls i want to test now release this alrdy

Sizzle Hint.1820:

I dont know…

D/P will be very strong yes

Although i think there is a lot of potential for S/D and even S/P aswell… synergy between trickery line + impro + swindlers equilibrium looks very interesting on paper.

Swindlers equilibrium is really interesting since it reduces steals recharge by 1s not just if you evade with flanking strike, it does on all your evades. Dodges, withdrawl, flanking strike, pistol whip in particular, as long as you stay on sword.

Sounds like a lot of stealing that can potentially recharge your withdrawl (trick now) which lets you evade more -> lower recharge -> steal again

Withdrawl can be traited for 12 sec cd now in the trickery line although it has to compete with bountiful. Have to see how much vigor uptime you will get from new acrobatics but looks like we will be running around with perma vigor now even without bountiful. With traited trick recharges you get more vigor from withdraw now aswell so might not be a neccessity anymore.

With impro you can also use stolen abilities twice now… with steal having a potentially lower CD than 21 sec now imagine how many consume plasmas you will be using vs a mesmer how long you gonna daze the guardian?

Maybe have to experiment with double S/D builds again using energy sigils for more dodges and less steal recharge i feel 10 sec steal recharge inc? Would be pretty crazy

Yea and top more damage (the stats u didnt get from CS + DA lines before) + panic strike

yes pls i want to test now release this alrdy

I’m pretty sure teh reason there isnt an ICD written is because they weren’t sure about the numbers.

How did u calculate perma vigor without bountiful? In practice 2sec duration 3 sec recharge doesnt mean 2/3 uptime and taking Vigorous Recovery is not viable anymore IMO coz then u have no condi remove.

s/d+ s/d will never be viable.

Seems like u havent tried panic strike on S/D. its terrible.

Improvisation has 1/4 chance to recharge tricks so that wont happen too often and it competes for the spot with executioner.

ICD is actually 1 sec

with boon duration will prolly be 3/3 + vig recovery… even if we dont get perma vigor in acro alone can still take bount… 12 sec withdraw is probably overkill anyway with impro… sword has some decent clondi cleanse built into the set alrdy but yea ure right no more pain response but we will see how it plays out

it was meta at one point dude (yea i know i know ) and in stronghold i feel like shortbow isnt as needed anymore… its just some theorycrafting on my part though

Yes because S/D doesnt have the pressure to make the most out of it but you will have lots more damage with these changes incoming

i feel executioner is pretty underwhelming after taking a closer look at impro…

10% dmg increase (all the time) + random recharge + stolen ab twice

vs

20% if enemy below 50%

Maybe it’s really gonna be lackluster but i think it looks really interesting… we will have to wait and find out

Sizzle Hint.1820:

ICD is actually 1 sec

with boon duration will prolly be 3/3 + vig recovery… even if we dont get perma vigor in acro alone can still take bount… 12 sec withdraw is probably overkill anyway with impro… sword has some decent clondi cleanse built into the set alrdy but yea ure right no more pain response but we will see how it plays out

it was meta at one point dude (yea i know i know ) and in stronghold i feel like shortbow isnt as needed anymore… its just some theorycrafting on my part though

Yes because S/D doesnt have the pressure to make the most out of it but you will have lots more damage with these changes incoming

i feel executioner is pretty underwhelming after taking a closer look at impro…

10% dmg increase (all the time) + random recharge + stolen ab twice

vs

20% if enemy below 50%

Maybe it’s really gonna be lackluster but i think it looks really interesting… we will have to wait and find out

You are really tiring… I just explained why u cant take those traits.

Condition removal on sword 2 isn’t close to decent. they load more conditions during the time u spend to remove them.

S/D+S/D was meta? maybe in a hotjoin server in your dreams.

Shortbow is still a great utility but anyhow i dont see why you would take an S/D thief into Stronghold that’s just not their map. D/P thieves can just stealth all day, no need to stand on points.

‘10% dmg increase (all the time) + random recharge + stolen ab twice’ IDK how u managed to discover a 10% damage boost where there isn’t. Even the old trait was 10% only when wielding ice bow and stuff. Now even that part has been removed.
stolen abilities are undergoing a rework they even remove the damage portions from them.

rofl

yea it gets tiring

maybe dont be so pessimistic? Changes look awesome yea a shame your random dodge build is getting thrown off… really a shame… (see i can do that too)

Maybe you havent played back then but double S/D was meta for a short time when you were still able to chain infil strikes (got fixed quickly which made SB a neccessity again) … people were either running 0 30 0 25 15 S/D + SB or 0 30 0 30 10 double S/D then 10 30 0 30 0 and our current trait layout after that 10 0 0 30 30

The condi removal IS decent. Try run 10 30 0 0 30 D/P then come back how it is bad condi cleanse.

Maybe read the trait properly? Because it says 10% damage increase…

anyway im outta here keep whining, i will enjoy the changes a lot.

haha random dodge build? has one of the highest skill caps

i dont know in which hotjoin u chained 2 infiltrator’s strikes together but must have been worth the weapon swap :P

the condi removal is better than nothing but if u either get loaded up with many condis or u cant disange behind line of sight it wont help at all(even so it means u r doing nothing getting rid of condis). it is not enough in itself.

the 10% damage increase tooltip stayed there unintentianlly from the earlier version of the trait. the trait description itself doesnt mention damage increase meaning there isnt.