Guild Wars 2

Hey guys,

My thief is level 55 and I’m having trouble closing the distance to 80.

The problem I’m experiencing is that, at my level, none of the weapon sets feel truly right, especially dagger/dagger. Sometimes I’ll get a nice, fat crit on a backstab for like 1/2 the enemy’s HP and it’s very satisfying. At least half of the time, though, the ability won’t crit or even if it does, won’t do a lot of damage.

My spec is 20/20/0/5/0 atm, with the appropriate backstab build insofar as my level allows it.

It might not seem like a big deal to you 80’s, but for me it IS a big deal. When my backstab does less damage than if I’d just kept auto-attacking, it’s a problem. My “combo’s” feel worthless half the time. This is not to mention that Death Blossom, the “special” d/d 3 ability, is pointless. Other weapon sets aren’t much better, as Sword/* still feels like either auto-attack or PW spam.

I dunno. I just feel a little disenchanted with the class at present. I’ve been 55 for about a week now, and I find it hard to enjoy combat. Even shortbow isn’t great, with a slow, moderate-damage AOE as its only really interesting bit. I’ve played in Heart of the Mists with backstab builds and they feel okay, although you have to sacrifice EVERYTHING to get that truly satisfying “backstabby” feeling.

This seems stupid to me. On WoW (sinful comparison, I know) my rogue/druid ALWAYS had a CLEAR benefit for backstabbing/Shredding. On this game it feels like too little work for too little pay. What do you guys think?

Push to 60! It will feel much more backstaby once you can get Hidden Killer.

This game is inherently balanced around the sPvP scene. ArenaNet has always been relatively up front about that fact (despite a bit of PR verbal back pedaling close to launch). One of the cardinal rule in sPvP is that people shouldn’t get instantly knocked down in a couple of hits. If ArenaNet ever finds an alpha strike combination, then they gut it.

Case in point, the Warrior’s F1 burst attack on the Axe does a leap and a chunk of single target damage. However back during Beta, the Axe’s F1 spike hit did much more. People combined this with 30 pts in their trait line which added +30% F1 damage as their +Special Class Stat bonus. The sPvPers constantly complained about people using that build and the “automatically crit after a weapon switch” rune.

What was ArenaNet’s solution? They nerfed down the Axe’s F1 damage to a reasonable level and they reduced the Special Class Stat from <1% per Pt> to <+.1% per Pt>. Now if you had 30 pts in that trait line, you’d get a net increase of +3% F1 damage (which is basically worthless) from the original +30% F1 damage.

If you’re looking for some kind of alpha strike in GW2, then you’re probably looking for a different game. ArenaNet is a bit anti-Stealth as well due to all of the sPvP issues it can cause. So looking for some kind of combined Stealth + Alpha Strike synergy just isn’t going to happen until ArenaNet seriously changes their philosophy.

It’s been 1.5+ month when I was 55 so I cant really recall how I encoutered any PvE problems.
Sure I had but now with my alts Im like “If I was on my thief things would be better”.
The “special” d/d 3 ability as you say is my savior.Evade attacks + bleeds on mobS.Apparently I have condition gear for PvE ,actually its attack/precision/condition and thats what I suggest to everyone.Glass cannon with that gear.I know its not easy to get gear on low levels but if you have hard time on PvE you should.Also,I find very useful caltrops due to the many stacks of bleed.(the utility mostly)

If you want to stick with BS then … I would say thats is not a good PvE build.At least for me.As I stated I go all the way condition and glass cannon and my survivability relies on death blossom/evade/3rd skill of shortbow/stealth if needed

Once you can put more points and gear for crit damage, you will see better results.

@Wiser With Age,

I’m not looking for an instagib build. In fact, I agree that they shouldn’t exist in this game. I’m talking about spike damage that actually seems to be worth the setup of backstab.

Also, an aside… I was kind of hoping there would be more combos available. I.e., Pounce/Mangle/Rake/Rip/Shred… yanno? What I find myself doing in PVE is just

auto
auto
auto
CnD
Backstab
auto
auto
auto
Cnd
Backstab
Heartseeker
Heartseeker

Am I just being too nitpicky? It seems like my Elementalist has 10 different ways to kill something whereas my Thief has a backstab that works 50% of the time… OR, as Quickhit said, a condition damage build where I just stack DoTs by pushing 3 and autoing them to death. -_-

The initiative system just isn’t that engaging in comparison to something like an ele, whom is one of the most complex, that is probably why. I agree with you though, they should have made thieves more combo chains to make it more interesting. As someone who played a druid in WoW, the closet thing you will find is Engineer and Elementalist, for that same kind of switching in and out and complexity in chaining stuff. Necro isn’t too bad either for this, if you use your DS form and weapon swap correctly. Thief is just the most straight forward class you could have picked.

Calling thieves’ highest damage ability (well, after caltrops) “pointless” means you need to wake up and take a good look at the tools at your disposal.

The game is (for the most part) balanced around extremes. Backstab is not going to be very satisfying til you start stacking +crit damage on all of your gear; which means high level exotics. Even then, it is still single target burst damage (ie. bad for pve).

Personally, after playing elementalist in pvp, it feels much more restrictive. Once you know your combos that do the most damage, you just use them over and over, putting everything on cooldown (some combo’s put 6+ of your damage ability’s on CD).

@ens.

Please read the thread before posting. Thanks.

@Cyricus
Interesting. I’m not really sure what I’ll do knowing this… I could try and push to 60 (and then 80) and wait for exotics for those OMGHUGE NUMBERS. Or I could level my Ele, who is only 22 =/ What I keep asking myself is, “why did it take you 55 levels to notice this?”

I read your thread and addressed all of your assertions. You seem to have ignored every point I made because I didn’t spell them out simple enough for a 3rd grader to understand.

I even went as far as to explain why backstab doesn’t feel “backstaby”.

You can kill mobs faster than any other class, CnD> Steal > BS > blossom > leave. If the promise of one of the few abilities in the game to GUARANTEE crits is not enough to keep you playing; there’s no help for you.

Pawstruck.9708:

@ens.

Please read the thread before posting. Thanks.

@Cyricus
Interesting. I’m not really sure what I’ll do knowing this… I could try and push to 60 (and then 80) and wait for exotics for those OMGHUGE NUMBERS. Or I could level my Ele, who is only 22 =/ What I keep asking myself is, “why did it take you 55 levels to notice this?”

You could try leveling with a P/D build, I found it a little more entertaining, but a bit slower. Throw in traps that aren’t commonly used, and it becomes a bit more fun. Just try something out of the norm when you get the leveling pains, that’s how I keep myself going/entertained. I say P/D, because you can actually chain all the moves into a chain. Basically, drop a trap, steal (or save it for initiative return later in the chain), CnD, unload your dots from stealth, hit your direct damage/leapback move, autoattack as they run to you and trigger the trap, etc. It’s a little more at least.

P/D also works well when combined with D/D (I used to run it ankittenempted to go back once I get some better exotics)

Steal, CnD, swap weapons, backstab. Gives you amazing control of where the fight is headed (perma cripple with DD and inini-kite multiple mobs then steal at appropriate time, swap, backstab. You can also go into a DB spam, hearseeker spam, etc. There’s a lot of utility for CC and single target burst from those two weapon sets).

Though I’ve taken a liking to S/P mainly because I picked up a sexy rare sword with a superior rune that heals me and my allies when I attack (and because Pistol Whip synergizes with that and SoM…and haste which happens to synergize with DS and SoM too).

I felt the same way so I’ve been using a different type of build that I’ve had great success with. At my level I’m 25/0/0/20/15 d/d and sb. DA: Venomous Strength, Dagger Training, A: Vigorous Recovery, Assassin’s Reward, T: Uncatchable. Utilities I use Healing Signet, Spider Venom, Caltrops and Shadow Refuge. Elite is Dagger Storm.

For large groups I pull with shortbow Cluster Bomb’s to stack bleeds then dodge to drop caltrops, then I use the the caltrop utility, pop spider venom then spam leaping death blossom. When I run out of initiative, dodge for more caltrops and more death blossom. You can get over 20 stacks of bleeding almost immediately, have great healing from signet and assassin’s reward, plus you have tons of dodging from vigorous recovery and feline grace which means more caltrops from uncatchable. Use dagger storm as needed.

Single targets I do spider venom, cloak and dagger + steal, throw caltrops while stealthed then backstab before they hit the ground (this combo also works well in PvP with basilisk venom off cloak and dagger, they come out of BV with caltrops and backstab simultaneously), dodge to drop more caltrops, etc. Same strategy as above except I sub in thieves guild for an elite and I open with the backstab combo.

I had a lot of trouble leveling early on but this build has been great.

leaping death blossom is awesome with 3+ mobs,good damage and evade most of incoming attacks,if u use healing signet too u gain lot of hp back (lot because u evade attacks)
I think this skill is really underrated