Guild Wars 2

The Damage isn’t worth losing stealth and mobility and crowd control. So why ever use these weapons? In fact in some cases I would say they do less damage then the other sets, and punish you more because of things like retaliation.

Currently there is no reason to use S/P, P/P. Both are poorly designed to the current Meta.

S/P would be fine if it wasn’t for retaloltion, still a good weapon set though. P/P sucks and is unsalvageable.

PP will suck and continue to suck as long as it has body shot, and as long as it’s a bad mash of condition damage and direct damage without any relevant defensive option.

S/P is good for point blank melee fights. I use it mostly in PVE. It is so strong in PVE that it feels nigh overpowered: Just use Black Powder to keep everything within melee range blind, then I can auto attack them to death in pure zerker gear without any fear of dying. Best part is, Black Powder lets everyone else in zerker gear do the same thing, so it makes for a good team weapon.

The other advantage to S/P is the stuns. Pistol Whip is good for an interrupt, put the big one for stripping Defiant is Headshot. Sometimes the boss, like the Champion Risen Wraith, has an attack that will just devastate everyone around them. So, you use Headshot to strip down their defiant, and then when they go through that big tell that lets you know stuff is about to get real, you pistol whip them to interrupt and stop that skill in its tracks.

For PVP it is harder to justify. The blind field from black powder is good, the constant stuns and interrupts are alright, and the teleport/condition cleanse is pretty decent, but It just doesn’t have as much use. If you want blinds, it is better to run S/D and use that trait that causes blind when you enter stealth. If you want stuns, S/D also has them, and enemy players do not have defiant to strip. Combine that with unblockable boon stealing and a dodge, and S/D has S/P beat in most PVP situations. Just need 10 trait points in Shadow arts.

P/P, I’ve only use rarely when fighting environmental bosses. On some builds I have I can generate a lot of initiative, which lets me spam unload constantly on stationary bosses. But otherwise… yeah bodyshot is horrible and for condi builds you’re better off with P/D.

I usually run S/D and S/P as a secondary set. The boon stripping from LS is a good set-up for S/P switch. I can usually freeze them with venoms position to the side or rear with FS then switch to S/P and use PW. I enjoy using combinations that aren’t as popular though. It is certainly more difficult than the boilerplate builds that are the norm, but running stealthless can be a lot of fun once you get the hang of it.

I run D/P and S/P setup in wvw
S/P is a great weapon in team to keep a foe stunned/immobilized, switch to D/P when he hits 30-40% to finish him.

S/P does rely on you learning not to depend on stealth (same with P/P I guess, but P/P is even harder because the setup is crap right now) and this is entirely different from what thieves usually play

I run PP when zerging so I can shout ‘DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA’ when we roll over people farming cabbages.

Aw yeah…

Between headshot and steal, your opponent should never get their heal off.

S/P has a lot of control and can cleave relatively safely compared to even S/D and the D/ sets. When a guy tries to red his teammate and you smash them both without external consequence the sets obviously useful. Outside of group retal its quite strong.

P/P though leaves something to be desired.

Sp is the best trash clearing set for dungeons. In PvP its pretty bad outside of killing one person in a stun. Since you must be new to the class ill elaborate by saying that you can apply basi poison, pop haste, and spam Pw. If they stunbreak use the swords 2 skill to keep them locked. Pp is bad for almost everything. It has higher single dos for ranged boss fights, of which there is only one to two in game that you should range. Though really pp is still worse since the dmg gained through sb vuln stacking makes it superior. Next thread….

I wrote a guide on how to effectively use sword/pistol in a tpvp situation. I actually believe sword pistol is very good, but I have a hard time finding uses for pistol/pistol

http://intothemists.com/guides/294-rand_x_al_thors_swordpistol

you guys forget…killing people with P/P gives you style points.

In all seriousness though… i find it to be a fun group support set. Yes im sure you can do the same and more with any of the other combinations…

I think all of the abilities on P/P are very situational. Body shot used to help spike down a bunker when running in a small group.
Unload to help snipe someone down across the way…
Headshot…awesome times.
Blackpowder… out of dodges / withdraw / roll for init /shadowstep and still getting melee dmg? Bam.

If i really need an escape…pistol 5 , swap to d/p and leap away.

S/P Is good for far point harassment. I play Cruuk’s Build D/P & S/P.

I only use S/P when there is a spirit ranger or multiple targets for me to fight against. However the magic sauce is in the BP. Since the Blind *Fix it has gained more viability.
If you want to know what I have been using you can PM me for it. I will not link it directly because I like pantsforbirds.9032 and I think his build should get some recognition as well.

Why play S/P when you can play D/P?

See a lot of people saying interrupt…

D/P has head shot (costs less then P/W) and also has Black Powder.

What is the point of using P/P at all? Lol.

Daecollo.9578:

Why play S/P when you can play D/P?

Stun,immobilize,condition removal and Cleave.

OIIIIIO.7825:

S/P Is good for far point harassment. I play Cruuk’s Build D/P & S/P.

I only use S/P when there is a spirit ranger or multiple targets for me to fight against. However the magic sauce is in the BP. Since the Blind *Fix it has gained more viability.
If you want to know what I have been using you can PM me for it. I will not link it directly because I like pantsforbirds.9032 and I think his build should get some recognition as well.

I definitely think you should post it. They are pretty different styles of play, but I definitely think Cruuk’s build is great! They are both far point harassment builds with different approaches

http://intothemists.com/guides/5-cruuks_decapitation_build

Actually, four other thieves and I went p/p and just abused 3 and wiped out an unbelievable amount of people. It was kittened how fast we dropped everyone. Im talking about 5 on 15 action it was amazing. I do think P/P sucks but that night… we were (lower tier) gods.

Because S/P is awesome? It have access to so many interrupts that you don’t need stealth. You evade while pistol whipping and are dealing a good deal of damage, so why not?

S/P is very good in PvE, it give you a teporting skill that cleanse 1 condition a p/w evade all atacks. P/P only for some bosses, but i prefere SB like secondary range weapon.
p/p is not a very good wepon set unless traited it, and use traits to make just a single weapon usefull is a bad design if you ask me.

Heh. I’d agree with magom’s comment RE: design. However, I still break out P/P on fools, or S/P. Both are extremely fun with full-evasion builds/judicious Shadowstepping.
And yes, the Interrupts/Blinds are pure face-melt.

I primarily use SB but have S/P for when fighting singular mobs or a handful together where I don’t want trick shot to accidentally hit a non-aggro’d mob. Seems to be a pretty solid PvE compliment so far (lvl 21).

S/P – in WvW can take out siege engines with ease compare to other weapon sets
P/P – not really much of a choice for ranged single target weapon.

I’ve been playing with Chuuk’s build (the same link that OIIIIIO posted), and S/P does very well on PvP. Its not supposed to be your main, but it is very useful when there are enemies rezzing, or a bunch of necro pets / mesmer clones / thiefs guild. This is specially true if you are using signet of malice, which heals for a lot when using pistol whip.

Basically any time there’s a bunch of enemies together, S/P is the best tool for the job (unless you are a cond. thief and intend to spam death blossom, which works as well). Using shortbow and spamming 2 also works, but usually deals less damage, takes longer and doesnt gives you evade while you are it.

teonimesic.1403:

I’ve been playing with Chuuk’s build (the same link that OIIIIIO posted), and S/P does very well on PvP. Its not supposed to be your main, but it is very useful when there are enemies rezzing, or a bunch of necro pets / mesmer clones / thiefs guild. This is specially true if you are using signet of malice, which heals for a lot when using pistol whip.

Basically any time there’s a bunch of enemies together, S/P is the best tool for the job (unless you are a cond. thief and intend to spam death blossom, which works as well). Using shortbow and spamming 2 also works, but usually deals less damage, takes longer and doesnt gives you evade while you are it.

What can S/P do that D/P and Shortbow can’t?

I was using D/P for a long time in PvE and I found myself dying and not doing as much damage (it took so long for me to kill stuff in Harathi Hinterlands). Switching to S/P with the same trait setup allowed me to kill faster. Yes, it isn’t as fun because you just stand in one place, blind, and whack away at the monster, but it makes completing hearts a lot easier.

Daecollo.9578:

teonimesic.1403:

I’ve been playing with Chuuk’s build (the same link that OIIIIIO posted), and S/P does very well on PvP. Its not supposed to be your main, but it is very useful when there are enemies rezzing, or a bunch of necro pets / mesmer clones / thiefs guild. This is specially true if you are using signet of malice, which heals for a lot when using pistol whip.

Basically any time there’s a bunch of enemies together, S/P is the best tool for the job (unless you are a cond. thief and intend to spam death blossom, which works as well). Using shortbow and spamming 2 also works, but usually deals less damage, takes longer and doesnt gives you evade while you are it.

What can S/P do that D/P and Shortbow can’t?

High multi target damage while evading and dazzing. Together with signet of malice it heals up a high amount of damage, while yourself is immune to damage. Try using it when there are 3 enemies close and see for yourself.

teonimesic.1403:

Daecollo.9578:

teonimesic.1403:

I’ve been playing with Chuuk’s build (the same link that OIIIIIO posted), and S/P does very well on PvP. Its not supposed to be your main, but it is very useful when there are enemies rezzing, or a bunch of necro pets / mesmer clones / thiefs guild. This is specially true if you are using signet of malice, which heals for a lot when using pistol whip.

Basically any time there’s a bunch of enemies together, S/P is the best tool for the job (unless you are a cond. thief and intend to spam death blossom, which works as well). Using shortbow and spamming 2 also works, but usually deals less damage, takes longer and doesnt gives you evade while you are it.

What can S/P do that D/P and Shortbow can’t?

High multi target damage while evading and dazzing. Together with signet of malice it heals up a high amount of damage, while yourself is immune to damage. Try using it when there are 3 enemies close and see for yourself.

If your targets stand still maybe, such a thing doesn’t happen often in pvp.

The damage prevented by just stealthing and the healing applied usually more then makes up for that.

What can S/P do that D/P and shortbow can’t.
Cheap shadowsteps with cleanse
Higher aa than shortbow while staying in melee
Stun (instead of daze)

With high ini regen you can keep on PW stun someone, which not only interrupt him but also stops movement. When playing 2v2 (with focus fire) this means a free shot for your buddy. Also interrupts ppl who are trying to revive (even while in stealth) while dealing dmg to both.
Also, while the enemy is stunned, he can’t attack you back (unless with retal). So unlike just cleaving with AA, you aren’t receiving dmg from that particular person even before the evade part kicks in. You don’t need a still standing target to get pw to hit. Well timed shadowsteps or infiltrator’s strike before pw ensures a hit.

Imo most ppl here doesn’t seem to make a difference between stun and daze. There’s a huge difference between being able to stop a person from moving entirely compared to just locking down his skills temporarily.