Guild Wars 2

Ok…So…I’ll admit this right off the bat. I do not play a thief. I may roll one at some point but I am to interested in playing the other classes I’ve rolled so far. I mainly play a Guardian. Admittedly, I am not 100% familiar with all of the ins and out of a Guardian. It will forever be a learning process for me but I do enjoy the Guardian I have now.

Now you may look at the title of this post and just laugh. You may think to yourself…“This guys a noob” or “He doesn’t know how to play his class” or “Why the heck would I tell you anything to begin with?” If that’s your line of thinking, then thank you for taking the time to read this far. I appreciate that at the very least.

I’ll start this discussion/question thread off with some examples that I find almost hard to believe at times. Sometimes I feel that the Thief is OP or needs a nerf. I do not like thinking this mainly because I do not play a thief, so those assumptions are just plain unfair. So…onto some questions and examples that really make it difficult to kill you all. (This is mainly WvW focused)

#1 What build and/or abilities are you using that make you nigh indestructible in WvW when we see you spinning around in circles laying waste to groups of individuals?

#2 How many times can you do such a move within a 60 second time-span?

#3 Do you heal when you do this spin as well as damage?

#4 How often can you go invisible/stealth within a 60 second time-span?

#5 What can I do to counter these things and drive you off or kill you?

Often times my guild-mates and I see this happening from 1 or more thieves. The whole spinning trick, blasting through a group of players unscathed to disappear a split second later. Only to return a few moments later doing it again.

I’ve seen, on multiple occasions, one thief keep an group of 15+ players from capping a Supply Depot just by staying stealthed. The amount of time for these stealthing players seems way to long. The are able to remain stealthed, hop out a few times, spin through the group and the disappear again without us gaining any advantage. Often times we see a smoke wall go up within the AOE capping area of the Supply Depot. I am unsure if this is just a decoy or if it actually continues to prevent the capture of the Supply Depot.

During one particularly heated attack on a supply depot, 1 thief managed to keep a group of us occupied for…heck at least 10 minutes before we finally killed him. Teammates and others started shouting Hacks, Exploits, Nerf and all kinds of things.

Again, I am not one to start shouting these things until I fully understand just what is going on.

Can any of you highly trained individuals please help a guy out? This particular spec seems unbeatable in WvW as well as untrackable. What can I do as an average player to help myself out and get the upper hand from time to time?

I have heard in WvW that there is a bug which when a thief leaves stealth to his opponent he is still stealthed for another 2 or so seconds, as you probably know if the thief is truly stealthed the capture progress bar for supply camps etc. (don’t know what its called) will move towards the favour of your team and stop moving once the thief is unstealthed

That spinning attack that heals is 2 things at work, if you notice on thief he should have a blue signet, signet of malice which every time he hits he is healed, the spinning attack is the thief elite skill Dagger storm,which along to its decent damage when there is a lot of players grouped together it cripples and causes bleeding on you. It is hard to kill them due to the stealth bug.

Again if the stealth bug is true (I don’t personally WvW much so I have never tested it) then your teammates where right in shouting Exploits. As a thief or anyone who is stealthed will not contribute to capturing a point while he/she is stealthed (at least in the mists)

1. What build and/or abilities are you using that make you nigh indestructible in WvW when we see you spinning around in circles laying waste to groups of individuals?

Its Dagger storm, our elite skill which makes us to reflect all projectiles and trow daggers in random directions which couse bleed and criple.
2. How many times can you do such a move within a 60 second time-span?

It has 90 seconds cd. so its once per 1.5 minutes/
3. Do you heal when you do this spin as well as damage?

You only heal if you got Signet of malice healing 100 hp per hit, however if a lot of ppl still shoot at you healing can be incredibly hight.

4. How often can you go invisible/stealth within a 60 second time-span?

From my utility and other skills i can steath 4 times if all utilitys pack invis. However some of them, dont allow me to move out of aoe(etc. Shadow refuge)

5. What can I do to counter these things and drive you off or kill you?

First of all dont shoot at thief using Dagger storm. You take your own damage, my dmg +criples. a heavy shooting at thief during dagger storm is like hiting yourself in the face with a brick. You can easily counter a thief, with ground targeting aoe(invisibility ain’t invincibility) and staying smart not letting up for a backstab or other attack. All thief weapeons out of invisiblity got stronger skill, so stealthed thief is not only a survivability, but also an opening to attack, so dont get overconfident making a thief go invisible. Also glass cannon thief > any other glass cannon due to their ability to innitiate combat when they want, and avoid unwanted combat.

And about invisibility spec. You cannot keep the point defended from caping if you are invisible. However in killing a invis speced thief in WvW is next to imposible, as even outnumbered he has capabilites to run away, thanks to our only viable weapeon in WvW shortbow which packs Infiltrators arrow as #5 skill slot. which lets us to shadowstep a good distance, minding that we have +25% movespeed signet, makes us most mobile class in WvW.

" I mainly play a Guardian". There’s your prmary source of problem right there. Don’t expect yourself to kill anything, because your class isn’t suited for that type of job.

1. Dagger Storm. We take damage but not status effects during its channel time. Doesn’t do much damage aside from disturupting and scaring people kittenless.
2. Once
3. With the proper healing skill, yes we can heal per attack
4. Forever (If done properly)
5. You’re asking the wrong players if you’re seeking help on how to fight thieves as a guardian. You should be asking other guards on how they fight us.

I think your or your guildmates are forgetting an important aspect to stealthing. Stealthing doesn’t mean a thief becomes invincible, but he cannot be seen. If you know a thief is restricting your team from capping a supply camp, then he’s within the vicinity of the camp’s parameter or the camp turns green for you. Throw down some aoe’s and put status effects on a thief, and he normally would panic and run. You should also remember that stealth, especially aoe stealth skills, have limitations. One stealth skill doesn’t last too long, and aoe stealth’s only stealth while the thief remains within such aoe. As long as you were following a thief’s movements, then you know where he stealths at and the most possible route he’ll take to either escape or come out of stealth. Frankly, I’d suggest playing a thief if you think you’re having difficulties on how to beat the class, so you’d have a better understanding of what we do.

1. What build and/or abilities are you using that make you nigh indestructible in WvW when we see you spinning around in circles laying waste to groups of individuals?
2. How many times can you do such a move within a 60 second time-span?
3. Do you heal when you do this spin as well as damage?
4. How often can you go invisible/stealth within a 60 second time-span?
5. What can I do to counter these things and drive you off or kill you?

1. There are two abilities. One is an elite, and one is stolen from warriors, which mimics a warrior ability.
2. the elite has 90 second cooldown, steal is half that (but we require a warrior nearby to steal from)
3. With signet of malice, every attack heals a tiny amount. But we sacrifice large burst healing by taking this ability.
4. That depends largely on utility skills and traits. Anywhere from 0 to 4 or 5.
5. Well, if you’ve got a guardian around, trap the thief in a bubble. You can then kill him in about 1 second. Also, confusion and retaliation are great against the spin tactics. The elite one reflects projectiles, so you’ll drastically reduce its effectiveness if you stop attacking. Just keep your distance, wait for it to end, then swoop in. Barring bubbles, your best bet to defeat a thief is to adapt thief tactics.

I have an 80 Guardian & Warrior, Thieves never killed me on those.

Guardian:
Knight’s armor and wep (3200 armor). Zerk jewels/div runes (12+36 crit dmg).
Protection. Retailation. Shelter. Any CC.
Renewed focus+double VoR. Sanctuary.
Ring of warding is also a great thief counter, trap them in circle and eat them.

Warrior:
Knight’s armor and wep (3200 armor). Zerk jewels/div runes (12+36 crit dmg).
Endure pain, Defy pain, Shield block = 11s immunity to thief burst.
Hammer > Thief.

From here forward it’ll be all about CC’ing the thief long enough to kill him (most times they die in 3 hits, Thieves still have to discover Toughness).

How ironic, cuz I’ve never died to a warrior or guardian on my thief.

Granted, a support guardian is hard to beat. Yet, a support guardian also doesn’t do damage at all, which gives me the freedom to engage or disengage whenever I wanted.

A warrior is really just hilarious to fight. The class feels very slow and clumsy, and can’t seem to react fast enough against a thief. The only times I’ve been hurt by a warrior is when he’s autoattacking aimlessly or when I’m looking at my map while travelling around. Even then, I don’t fear dying from a warrior at all.

Bwillb’s answers are the most correct. The only point of contention I’d have is that Signet of Malice isn’t actually worse than any other heal skill for burst healing, completely ignoring the passive, it is above Hide in Shadows and below Withdraw in healing-per-second. Stin, Daggerstorm isn’t anywhere near 180 seconds for cooldown.

If you’re having major problems with a daggerstorming thief it is actually relatively effective to just wade in and hit them hard with melee. It won’t be too easy to keep up since you’ll likely be crippled, but forcing a dodge will make them prematurely end their elite. A S/x thief itself is a great counter to a highly mobile thief and will at least force them off-field if not lock them down.

Tulisin.6945:

Bwillb’s answers are the most correct. The only point of contention I’d have is that Signet of Malice isn’t actually worse than any other heal skill for burst healing, completely ignoring the passive, it is above Hide in Shadows and below Withdraw in healing-per-second. Stin, Daggerstorm isn’t anywhere near 180 seconds for cooldown.

If you’re having major problems with a daggerstorming thief it is actually relatively effective to just wade in and hit them hard with melee. It won’t be too easy to keep up since you’ll likely be crippled, but forcing a dodge will make them prematurely end their elite. A S/x thief itself is a great counter to a highly mobile thief and will at least force them off-field if not lock them down.

ye noticed the mistake and fixed it

Yeah no offense man, but as a guardian you are the best suited class to take down a thief one vs one so if thieves give you trouble, I suggest you change profession.

If you are only refering to how thieves act in large battles then yes, they are hard to kill if they know their role and position. The thief is a thin glass cannon, so I suppose a lot of people playing thieves got good at surviving considering how fast you can go from 100% to 0%.

I’m not particularly worried about taking down a thief myself as a guardian, however I do appreciate all the suggestions each of you have made in regards to doing it myself, as a guardian.

I made this post to try and get more information for myself and my guild mates as often times we have been hounded by one or two thieves doing these things and it can lead to great frustration.

With information like this in hand we can better understand the mechanics of what is going on and come together better as a group to eliminate the threat in the most effective way, quickly.

Thank you all for the responses, I really appreciate it. If there is anything else you wish to add, please feel free to do so. The more information the better.

Thanks again

I don’t know about other people, but for WvW I use shortbow + pistol/pistol. I use this build also in PvE.

I think for being a guardian, besides a few area control spells + strong survival abilities, it’s difficult for you to take down other classes :P

The first thing about thieves is stealth. With tons of stealthing abilities AND 25% movement boost AND the trait that gives swiftness after every dodge, it’s tough to chase down a thief.

1. How often can you go invisible/stealth within a 60 second time-span?
   this is for me:
   Steal: with a trait it stealths.
   Shadowstep: with shortbow
   Blinding Powder: when health is under 10%
   Blinding Powder: utility skill
   Heal

1. What can I do to counter these things and drive you off or kill you?
   As for most pvp games, I would say stuns. Warriors are a pain to me mainly because of their knockdown stuns. If you have any position control spells, using it against me would be deadly :P I like knowing where I am and where my escape route is. I literally try to go in, deal damage, get out, and I usually don’t get out if too many slows/stuns (got jumped by 50 people once, wasn’t paying attention in a terribad spot)

As for the glass cannon part, I’m the glassiest of cannons HOWEVER, being thief does give you enough leeway to escape – I use smoke screen when I’m being chased (works wonders)
Also, thieves can usually distract while a friend who doesn’t have stealth abilities gets away, the shadowstep ability on shortbow is SO imba for that —→ toy with enemies for a bit, then vanish, then run away and teleport to safety