Guild Wars 2

Backstab is fine. You may say bullkitten and so on but it is fine. It is a high risk high gain skill. Why does its hard to evade then? Combining with Basilisk it is hard to avoid, but since basilisk are able to be stun break, it is easier yet it is still hard.

Here is why. What make backstab is not really a “high risk” skill is the fact that people are able to CnD>Stealth/Sidestep signet = instant teleport and invi to the person. This is what make the skill over powered. Yes, you can have an awareness to your surrounding, and when you see a thieves, you’ll just get ready to dodge/stun break when he’s in 900 range. But when you don’t see him it will lead to instant death.

Imo, don’t nerf the backstab damage. It is stupid. It’s like nerfing PW damage when the real thing that need to be remove is quickness.

Just make sure that if you cast other skill after CnD, it will cancel the CnD. For example CnD>Steal. With this, thieves are unable to instant teleport to you while getting instant stealth and stone you at the same time. If CnD is canceled when you use other skill, backstab will be easier to counter and at the same time making it less OP while maintaining its damage.

Thoughts?

Any ability to just instagib someone shouldnt be in the game.

In order to execute backstab you need to be invisible and behind the enemy. CnD>Steal make this way too easy. If those combination are remove (once you use CnD if you use other skill it will cancel out CnD), it is easier to counter backstab. Because all you need to do is not letting thieves to get near and CnD you.

Of course there is other way for the thieves to go invi, but that “other ways” are able to be counter instead of now all thieves need to do is press 3 keys(CnD>Steal>Backstab). Resulting to an instant death that are really hard to avoid in 3 sec.

how in the hell is backstab a high risk skill? its free, and your kittening invisible? what a stupid post.

Apophis.8561:

how in the hell is backstab a high risk skill? its free, and your kittening invisible? what a stupid post.

It’s high risk to jump in and go stealth and backstab a guy since when you make a backstab build, you will die really fast eventhough the one hitting you have damage next to nothing.

Problem is, with the use of CnD>Steal, it’s not even close to low risk. You can get instant teleport and invisible to your target. This is the one thing that make everyone unable to react quickly because it goes so fast. Now imagine if a thieves need to walk to you in order to land CnD. It is easier to see and you are able to react better than the latter.

My post is about making CnD to be canceled if you use other skill after it(CnD>Steal).

Please read my post properly before showing your nerd rage. It really make yourself look stupid.

My thoughts are that you are incorrect. The instantcast combo of Steal is not OP and should NOT be changed. The only thing that is OP about the Backstab combo is the Assasin’s Signet. 150% is just too much and should be toned to 100% or lower.

Buzzcrave.6197:

Backstab is fine. You may say bullkitten and so on but it is fine. It is a high risk high gain skill. Why does its hard to evade then? Combining with Basilisk it is hard to avoid, but since basilisk are able to be stun break, it is easier yet it is still hard.

Here is why. What make backstab is not really a “high risk” skill is the fact that people are able to CnD>Stealth/Sidestep signet = instant teleport and invi to the person. This is what make the skill over powered. Yes, you can have an awareness to your surrounding, and when you see a thieves, you’ll just get ready to dodge/stun break when he’s in 900 range. But when you don’t see him it will lead to instant death.

Imo, don’t nerf the backstab damage. It is stupid. It’s like nerfing PW damage when the real thing that need to be remove is quickness.

Just make sure that if you cast other skill after CnD, it will cancel the CnD. For example CnD>Steal. With this, thieves are unable to instant teleport to you while getting instant stealth and stone you at the same time. If CnD is canceled when you use other skill, backstab will be easier to counter and at the same time making it less OP while maintaining its damage.

Thoughts?

I don’t see what’s so hard about this.

Players do not like losing control of their character while being killed instantly by an invisible opponent.

It doesn’t matter if there are one million ways to counter it.

It’s not fun to play against.

The question that players should be asking isn’t if backstab thieves can be countered or not but “Do they promote a healthy competitive environment”?

Because it’s not the forum posters that you need to convince that backstab is fine, it’s the players who get one-shotted, decide the game isn’t worth their time, and then quit without saying a word.

And frankly I’m getting sick of seeing players defend backstab thieves and other faceroll builds because they’re not doing it because they truly believe it’s balanced, they’re doing it because playing them lets them pretend that they’re actually good and they don’t want their power trip taken away.

You aren’t fooling anyone.

ehtom.5047:

Any ability to just instagib someone shouldnt be in the game.

Correction:
“Any ability <used by a glass cannon> to just instagib <another glass cannon or unskilled/undergeared/underleveled player> shouldnt be in the game.”

- Why?

Incurafy.6329:

My thoughts are that you are incorrect. The instantcast combo of Steal is not OP and should NOT be changed. The only thing that is OP about the Backstab combo is the Assasin’s Signet. 150% is just too much and should be toned to 100% or lower.

I don’t know. Even without Assasin’s Signet I still deal tons of damage and my enemy can’t do anything because Basilisk>Cnd>Steal will only took less than 5 sec. Best part is most of them didn’t do anything because it happens TOO FAST. Damage is nothing now, even if my enemy didn’t die, I can just spam HS or auto attack.

The real issue is players unable to react quickly due to CnD>Steal combo is just too fast. Unless you see the thieves movement, there’s no way for you to realize it if you didn’t see them. Best example is on wvw.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate thieves, I have my own, full exotics dual Corrupted Shard, but it just get too boring when I’m able to execute Basilisk>CnD>Steal>Backstab and downed a player in less than 5 seconds.

Though when I’m on my warrior, guardian and engi I really hate it. It’s just impossible to react that fast when you can’t see where the thieves come from.

I know a lot of you backstab build will cry on this, even the caltrops since Caltrop>Steal=instant success on hitting caltrop, but let just admit it, it is an OP combination when you can precast a skill without canceling it.

Boloth.6879:

Buzzcrave.6197:

Backstab is fine. You may say bullkitten and so on but it is fine. It is a high risk high gain skill. Why does its hard to evade then? Combining with Basilisk it is hard to avoid, but since basilisk are able to be stun break, it is easier yet it is still hard.

Here is why. What make backstab is not really a “high risk” skill is the fact that people are able to CnD>Stealth/Sidestep signet = instant teleport and invi to the person. This is what make the skill over powered. Yes, you can have an awareness to your surrounding, and when you see a thieves, you’ll just get ready to dodge/stun break when he’s in 900 range. But when you don’t see him it will lead to instant death.

Imo, don’t nerf the backstab damage. It is stupid. It’s like nerfing PW damage when the real thing that need to be remove is quickness.

Just make sure that if you cast other skill after CnD, it will cancel the CnD. For example CnD>Steal. With this, thieves are unable to instant teleport to you while getting instant stealth and stone you at the same time. If CnD is canceled when you use other skill, backstab will be easier to counter and at the same time making it less OP while maintaining its damage.

Thoughts?

I don’t see what’s so hard about this.

Players do not like losing control of their character while being killed instantly by an invisible opponent.

It doesn’t matter if there are one million ways to counter it.

It’s not fun to play against.

The question that players should be asking isn’t if backstab thieves can be countered or not but “Do they promote a healthy competitive environment”?

Because it’s not the forum posters that you need to convince that backstab is fine, it’s the players who get one-shotted, decide the game isn’t worth their time, and then quit without saying a word.

And frankly I’m getting sick of seeing players defend backstab thieves and other faceroll builds because they’re not doing it because they truly believe it’s balanced, they’re doing it because playing them lets them pretend that they’re actually good and they don’t want their power trip taken away.

You aren’t fooling anyone.

I’m not defending backstab. To be honest, nerfing the damage is just as stupid as nerfing PW damage. The one thing make PW OP is when it is combine with quickness. It is impossible to get out of the chain stun+immobalize trait.

Same goes with backstab build. It is impossible for you to react when someone instantly teleport(steal) and CnD you while at the same time stone you(Basilisk) and went invi. One second later he landed a 10k backstab resulting to instant death.

Now imagine you are able to see the thieves running to you, isn’t it easier to be deal with? It’s like 100b warrior, when you can evade the bull rush, 100b is nothing to be afraid of. Same goes with thieves backstab build, if you can see which way the thieves come from, when did he go invi, there’s nothing to be afraid of.

**Please guys, stop nerd raging and read all my post clearly. I’m not defending backstab, I even call out a way to make it easier for players to avoid it.

Incurafy.6329:

150% is just too much and should be toned to 100% or lower.

lolwut? It currently make the ability do 150% of its normal damage, not 150% extra damage. If you changed that value to to 100% it would make the ability do exactly the same damage as without the signet, essentially making the Assassins signet do nothing. If it was lower than 100%, it would make it do less damage with the signet that it would without it…

Maybe you should have a clue about how a skill actually works before trying to make suggestions on how to improve it?

Backstab is perfectly fine, infact I’m gonna change build to a condition because BS is so lackluster. I’m not one-shotting people with full exotic (shouldn’t do that either). Maybe lower levels in WvWvW but I do around 6-9k damage on a backstab, most ppl run over 15k hp. After the backstab I’m all out of tricks. Skilled players will always beat a BS thief.

Buzzcrave.6197:

**Please guys, stop nerd raging and read all my post clearly. I’m not defending backstab

Okay.

Buzzcrave.6197:

Backstab is fine. You may say bullkitten and so on but it is fine. It is a high risk high gain skill. … Imo, don’t nerf the backstab damage. It is stupid. It’s like nerfing PW damage when the real thing that need to be remove is quickness.

Sounds pretty defensive to me.

Backstab is part of a larger problem, but we’ll see what they do. Stealth classes always take hits after release, never seen a game NOT nerf them after people find all the instagib builds. The thief is no different. The players that just want to play the ‘steath, stabby-stabby, win’ class in RPGs should know this by now. He’s been getting one-hit nerfs since release.

Its hard to judge class balance without getting a large mass of players with differing playstyles and skill levels. They have that now and they’ll continue to make changes based on incoming data.

This may come as a shock, but forum crying is not what they go by with their balance patches (queue nerd rage about prior nerfs). You can say that there is always lots of crying before a nerf, and then a nerf happens. That’s a logical statement. What is illogical is to say lots of crying caused a nerf. If that were the case, they’d be buffing Pistol Whip right now.

Its a valuable feedback tool, but most people come to the forums to cry anyway; regardless of balance. Its the nature of internet anonymity. No matter how many ‘backstab’ posts are made, they look to their own data to see if there’s really an issue.

Redscope.6215:

Buzzcrave.6197:

**Please guys, stop nerd raging and read all my post clearly. I’m not defending backstab

Okay.

Buzzcrave.6197:

Backstab is fine. You may say bullkitten and so on but it is fine. It is a high risk high gain skill. … Imo, don’t nerf the backstab damage. It is stupid. It’s like nerfing PW damage when the real thing that need to be remove is quickness.

Sounds pretty defensive to me.

Backstab is part of a larger problem, but we’ll see what they do. Stealth classes always take hits after release, never seen a game NOT nerf them after people find all the instagib builds. The thief is no different. The players that just want to play the ‘steath, stabby-stabby, win’ class in RPGs should know this by now. He’s been getting one-hit nerfs since release.

Its hard to judge class balance without getting a large mass of players with differing playstyles and skill levels. They have that now and they’ll continue to make changes based on incoming data.

This may come as a shock, but forum crying is not what they go by with their balance patches (queue nerd rage about prior nerfs). You can say that there is always lots of crying before a nerf, and then a nerf happens. That’s a logical statement. What is illogical is to say lots of crying caused a nerf. If that were the case, they’d be buffing Pistol Whip right now.

Its a valuable feedback tool, but most people come to the forums to cry anyway; regardless of balance. Its the nature of internet anonymity. No matter how many ‘backstab’ posts are made, they look to their own data to see if there’s really an issue.

What the hell is your point? You’re not even contributing what so ever. All you said is about how people crying before and after a nerf.

CnD>Steal is the real problem here. Being able to cast another skill after casting CnD without canceling it is the one thing that made backstab unavoidable. It is not the backstab skill.

Fine, nerf the damage, I don’t care. But as long as I can’t react to CnD>Steal, there is really no point of nerfing the damage. It will still deal tons of damage, atleast all those 3 combo will take away 70% of your hp after backstab damage is nerfed. Yes, you are alive, but getting 70% hp gone in an instant and WITHOUT A WAY TO REACT TO IT, is the real problem here.

CnD>Steal=Instant damage(4-8k for both skill), instant teleport to a person, instant invisibility. How long does all those thing take? Less than 2 seconds. How the hell are you going to react to this when you’re not aware of the thieves?

Steal has a 900 meter range.

Daecollo.9578:

Steal has a 900 meter range.

Buzzcrave.6197:

Yes, you can have an awareness to your surrounding, and when you see a thieves, you’ll just get ready to dodge/stun break when he’s in 900 range. BUT WHEN YOU DON’T SEE HIM IT WILL LEAD TO INSTANT DEATH.

For the love of god, read or don’t post at all.

“CnD>Steal is the real problem here. Being able to cast another skill after casting CnD without canceling it is the one thing that made backstab unavoidable. It is not the backstab skill.”

THIS is where the issue is – In order to stealth on steal a thief needs to spec in a way that impacts performance and ability to stay in a fight. As a thief – I agree that they CnD → Steal → Cloaked → backstab AND THEN be able to spam Heartseakers is more than a little OP. I agree with OP – The CnD should cancel/not stealth you if you steal during its cast.

CnD-Steal is just like using abilities that are not on the GCD in other MMOs. What’s the difference here? Okay, he closed the distance and is in stealth. Maybe you should CREATE some distance? The worst possible thing you can do is stand still or backpedal.

Zunhar.4079:

Okay, he closed the distance and is in stealth. Maybe you should CREATE some distance? The worst possible thing you can do is stand still or backpedal.

To further this argument, Steal→C&D is NOT infallible. We are very prone to miss if your target is moving. Stay mobile and you’ll have a surprisingly good chance at making him miss his gap closer and waste 6 ini.

And for the record, mug’s damage scaling needs to be toned down, anyone that denies that is hurting the class more than they realize.

http://i.imgur.com/5tinF.jpg

Or you SHOULD nerf backstab. I have 18k hp on this character.

This is just a semantic argument. Anyone with any integrity agrees 18k damage in 1.5 seconds is not good game design. Whether you tone down backstab itself or whether you remove assassin’s signet entirely or whether you stop allowing the c&D—→stealth combo to work are all basically going towards the same thing:

A spec which teleports to you from 900 away, stealths itself then kills you in less than 2 seconds is just not good game design whether there are counters or not.