Guild Wars 2

Let me start off with saying that this is not a QQ thread about mesmers getting torment added to their scepter aa, I personally think that weapon has needed help for a long time and was really surprised that they removed the confusion on aa back during beta, so its a much needed change for that weapon.

Most of you would agree with me (I think) that thieves really don’t have that much condi removal, without climbing into the SA tree. Sure we have withdraw/roll for initiative, hide in shadows and shadowstep, but shadowstep is the only skill that doesn’t discriminate between conditions(and who wants to blow a 50? second cd to remove three conditions, also the precision signet isn’t anything to brag about…in terms of condi removal).

With the increasing prevalence of torment, thieves really have a hard time to counter this condition. So as withdraw removes “movement crippling” conditions, Isn’t it appropriate for it to remove torment as well? (I understand the condition doesn’t reduce your effectiveness at movement like cripple, chill and immobilize, but it does however make it much less desirable)

I am also aware that thieves have no “direct/specific” condi removal to weakness and confusion but I’m not entirely sure that we should either.

Basically: should withdraw/roll for initiative also remove torment? Your thoughts? please be civil. Sorry if there is a reason that is blatantly obvious.

Personally, I think hide in shadows should remove torment. It looks like it just wasn’t updated after the torment condition was added. Also, it would be nice if condi removal like signet of agility and shadow return and whatever prioritized conditions which are more dangerous(either by dps or just a fixed order – immob, burn, confuse, bleed, torment, then the rest) to help against cover condi spam like vuln on engi.

Fair enough, as Hide in Shadows does poison/burning/bleed (damaging condis), but they could add confusion to that and torment to withdraw/roll for initiative. Though it would probably be necessary to cap the skills at 3 condis removed if they added confusion/torment respectively.

Edit: condi prioritization would be exceedingly helpful

Well, if I was the one, I’d make Hide in Shadows remove Torment (removes all damaging conditions), and Roll for Initiative/Withdraw remove Torment (removes all movement imparing conditions)

It’s true that somehow, the thief original idea for condition removal was never updated to the patchs the game received those last years. The fact is that we do get weak generic removal but very strong specific removals and Torment was never added into those. And now, more and more classes get access to Torment thus as a side effect, nerfing our already weak condition removal little by little.

adding torment to both skills isn’t a bad idea (its not like we can take both withdraw and hide in shadows at the same time) however if they add it to withdraw I sort of expect them to add it to roll for initiative.. which would probably annoy a lot of mesmers.

It’s my own desire to see patterns and logic relations that makes me say RfI and Withdraw should remove Torment. While it does wonders to make a game easier to understand and more logical, make more sense, it might not be the best for balance reasons.

It would be weird if Withdraw removed torment and not RfI so if we didn’t want the later to do it, only Hide in Shadows should remove Torment.

Btw, I did forget a trait : Pain Response. This one should be in sync with Hide in Shadows too and remove torment if the later does.

I was talking to a friend about this last night, when trying to help him deal with other thieves. We have very few options for dealing with torment and confusion. Burning, poison, bleed, cripple, chill and immobilize are removed specifically by a number of skills/traits as well as by non-specific cleanses, but because torment and confusion are not it means we have to use one of our non-specific condi cleanses to get rid of it.

That means stealth (if traited), shadowstep, sword 2 or signet of agility. Most thieves will have 2 of those at a maximum, the two most effective options require you to trait differently or burn a stunbreak, and the last two (which are the only two in the S/D meta build) only remove one condi so need perfect timing.

I wouldn’t have a problem with hide in shadows cleaning torment, as long as pain response did the same. I agree with the poster above though, I’d love withdraw and RfI to remove torment but that might be too strong for balance reasons. I also don’t want them to mess with what they already remove, I get snared enough already :P

Agreed, they should keep being consistent between the skills, whether that means adding torment removal to hide in shadows and pain relief or withdraw and RFI. I just hope that they do add torment removal to a pair of those skills.

i would buff the heal skills to not just remove rather transfer the conditions on you to foes around you 130 range thus further give the thief the option to heal while being aggressive

The problem in GW2 is that they placed condition and hex under the same name, even though they function differently.

Hide in Shadow only remove the “real” conditions, thus it cannot remove a “phantasmic” condition (aka hex) like Confusion and Torment.

Until ArenaNet separate hexes from conditions, players will continue to be confused.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The problem in GW2 is that they placed condition and hex under the same name, even though they function differently.

Hide in Shadow only remove the “real” conditions, thus it cannot remove a “phantasmic” condition (aka hex) like Confusion and Torment.

Until ArenaNet separate hexes from conditions, players will continue to be confused.

I guess immobilize and cripple and chilled are phantasmic hexes too?

The reality is that HiS was supposed to remove all DoTs, maybe a relic of a time where damage ticks would break Stealth?

And Withdraw would all movement impairing conditions because it’s a roll backward and doesn’t make much sense when you are rooted.

stof.9341:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The problem in GW2 is that they placed condition and hex under the same name, even though they function differently.

Hide in Shadow only remove the “real” conditions, thus it cannot remove a “phantasmic” condition (aka hex) like Confusion and Torment.

Until ArenaNet separate hexes from conditions, players will continue to be confused.

I guess immobilize and cripple and chilled are phantasmic hexes too?

My response was within the context of DoT thus I did not mention immobs and cripps.

Here’s a hint: I specifically mentioned Hide in Shadows. Reading Comprehension 101.

The reality is that HiS was supposed to remove all DoTs, maybe a relic of a time where damage ticks would break Stealth?

There may be conditions that are DoT, but not all DoTs are conditions — thus your assumption that HiS is suppose to remove ALL DoTs is wrong.

And Withdraw would all movement impairing conditions because it’s a roll backward and doesn’t make much sense when you are rooted.

Well then it would make perfect sense to you to add stun breaker in Withdraw also, after all RFI is a stun break.