Guild Wars 2

How many months has it been that HoT’s been out for?

Superior Rune of the Daredevil’s and Sigil of Intelligence’s guaranteed crits are wasted and used up on not only Mug, but on Pulmonary Impact as well. Oh, they don’t crit by the way; the charges just get wasted.

Furthermore, if you’re using both of them together, then they override each other. That means, if you don’t use up all 3 of your charges from Intelligence before your next dodge, the remaining charges are scrap…they are overridden.

Not to mention Pulmonary Impact still reveals you, cause the game needed more ways to reveal a thief…while giving them an entire trait-line dedicated to it and designing majority of their survivability around it.

As if this class didn’t have enough problems as is.

PS: On another note: still failing to understand how Mug is still a non-crit skill after 3 years, once insta-gib D/D thief was gutted. Mind Wrack can still crit, and its damage is significantly higher.

I agree with everything about the runes / sigil.

I do, however, disagree with your thoughts on Mug. It used to crit, but without the healing. I’d say the healing is much more important. Besides, the damage combos you could do with Backstab, Mug crit and sigil procs were too high. I know some profession can do same kind of damage at the moment, but thief don’t need more buffs, other professions needs nerfs – otherwise it becomes a “who one shots first” game.
I also disagree with your statement about Mind Wrack. You can’t compare one skill to another, you need to take the whole profession into account. Mind Wrack is the whole point of a shatter mesmer, and to be honest they would be VERY underpowered if it could not crit. It’s like if a thief couldn’t crit Backstab, it would ruin any Backstab build.

Still, most of your post really address some issues that should be looked into.

Peace out!

Rezok.2709:

I agree with everything about the runes / sigil.

I do, however, disagree with your thoughts on Mug. It used to crit, but without the healing. I’d say the healing is much more important. Besides, the damage combos you could do with Backstab, Mug crit and sigil procs were too high. I know some profession can do same kind of damage at the moment, but thief don’t need more buffs, other professions needs nerfs – otherwise it becomes a “who one shots first” game.
I also disagree with your statement about Mind Wrack. You can’t compare one skill to another, you need to take the whole profession into account. Mind Wrack is the whole point of a shatter mesmer, and to be honest they would be VERY underpowered if it could not crit. It’s like if a thief couldn’t crit Backstab, it would ruin any Backstab build.

Still, most of your post really address some issues that should be looked into.

Peace out!

Obviously I expect them to reduce the base damage by 1/4 should it crit. Also, the main problem with Mug was insta-gib D/D thieves in WvW, because they would kill you instantly back when the game was released…but so would many other things like BC→Frenzy→HB warriors.

Your comparison of Backstab with WC…I’m not gonna go there. All I’m gonna say is that’s not even close to what I’m comparing. Shattering does a plethora of other things.

Mug one-shotted people when it could crit (it also got its damage nerfed), and it never healed beforehand. On a light or medium, I personally know I could reach close to 10k+ Mugs now in WvW. That’s kind of a problem And D/D OHKO never got nerfed. People learned how to play and realized D/P is just straight up better and offers more damage.

Frenzy GS war didn’t one-shot people and didn’t have stealth. I could run SR on S/D on a critting mug and hit for 8k + 8K CnD on most classes. Anything playing damage except a warrior would quite literally die before I’d get revealed.

Mug/PI removing the auto-crit procs are intentional. That’s part of the build and just how things are; a shatter mesmer would only get one clone to crit on a MR with Daredevul runes. Having run intelligence sigil and played with on-swap effects on the thief, you’ve gotta learn your timing better or sit back and realize you’re putting what’s effectively a GM trait in a line offering nothing but damage on weapons and runes. Expecting better results than what that trait can offer is pretty insane.

DeceiverX.8361:

Mug one-shotted people when it could crit (it also got its damage nerfed), and it never healed beforehand. On a light or medium, I personally know I could reach close to 10k+ Mugs now in WvW. That’s kind of a problem And D/D OHKO never got nerfed. People learned how to play and realized D/P is just straight up better and offers more damage.

Frenzy GS war didn’t one-shot people and didn’t have stealth. I could run SR on S/D on a critting mug and hit for 8k + 8K CnD on most classes. Anything playing damage except a warrior would quite literally die before I’d get revealed.

Mug/PI removing the auto-crit procs are intentional. That’s part of the build and just how things are; a shatter mesmer would only get one clone to crit on a MR with Daredevul runes. Having run intelligence sigil and played with on-swap effects on the thief, you’ve gotta learn your timing better or sit back and realize you’re putting what’s effectively a GM trait in a line offering nothing but damage on weapons and runes. Expecting better results than what that trait can offer is pretty insane.

Mug never 1-shot anyone, what are you talking about? The most it hit for was 4k on a 30s cd in WvW with PvE gear (which has increased damage than sPvP). D/D got gutted really hard with C&D nerfs, DD nerfs, and HS nerfs. AS was nerfed from 150% on a single hit to 15% damage in 5 as well (which was the whole point of using it on insta-gib build for backstab).

Somehow I am getting the feeling you may not be as familiar with thief history as you feel you are. Perhaps you don’t even main a thief.

our burst is high enough without needing mug to crit tbh haha

All the classes have little bugs like this at the moment, and its good to talk about them! But, just a reminder, there’s a stickied thread at the top of the forum that says: “Submit Profession bugs to the Game Bugs forum”. It’ll probably get more relevant eyes over there.

Silverbolt.2301:

DeceiverX.8361:

Mug one-shotted people when it could crit (it also got its damage nerfed), and it never healed beforehand. On a light or medium, I personally know I could reach close to 10k+ Mugs now in WvW. That’s kind of a problem And D/D OHKO never got nerfed. People learned how to play and realized D/P is just straight up better and offers more damage.

Frenzy GS war didn’t one-shot people and didn’t have stealth. I could run SR on S/D on a critting mug and hit for 8k + 8K CnD on most classes. Anything playing damage except a warrior would quite literally die before I’d get revealed.

Mug/PI removing the auto-crit procs are intentional. That’s part of the build and just how things are; a shatter mesmer would only get one clone to crit on a MR with Daredevul runes. Having run intelligence sigil and played with on-swap effects on the thief, you’ve gotta learn your timing better or sit back and realize you’re putting what’s effectively a GM trait in a line offering nothing but damage on weapons and runes. Expecting better results than what that trait can offer is pretty insane.

Mug never 1-shot anyone, what are you talking about? The most it hit for was 4k on a 30s cd in WvW with PvE gear (which has increased damage than sPvP). D/D got gutted really hard with C&D nerfs, DD nerfs, and HS nerfs. AS was nerfed from 150% on a single hit to 15% damage in 5 as well (which was the whole point of using it on insta-gib build for backstab).

Somehow I am getting the feeling you may not be as familiar with thief history as you feel you are. Perhaps you don’t even main a thief.

I’ve been playing signet stab since this game released. I know the damage achievable.

Check the screenshot. No signets needed. This is pretty normal for me against other thieves.

Multiply that out by 2.954 if it could crit without even the old AS. With the old AS, 4.43.

I’ll just say now I’m one of the hardest-hitting thieves in this game and have been playing as one of the hardest-hitters in this game since close to launch. Do not tell me that our Mug damage was only capable of such pitifully low values while critting, because 4k is nothing.

DeceiverX.8361:

Silverbolt.2301:

DeceiverX.8361:

Mug one-shotted people when it could crit (it also got its damage nerfed), and it never healed beforehand. On a light or medium, I personally know I could reach close to 10k+ Mugs now in WvW. That’s kind of a problem And D/D OHKO never got nerfed. People learned how to play and realized D/P is just straight up better and offers more damage.

Frenzy GS war didn’t one-shot people and didn’t have stealth. I could run SR on S/D on a critting mug and hit for 8k + 8K CnD on most classes. Anything playing damage except a warrior would quite literally die before I’d get revealed.

Mug/PI removing the auto-crit procs are intentional. That’s part of the build and just how things are; a shatter mesmer would only get one clone to crit on a MR with Daredevul runes. Having run intelligence sigil and played with on-swap effects on the thief, you’ve gotta learn your timing better or sit back and realize you’re putting what’s effectively a GM trait in a line offering nothing but damage on weapons and runes. Expecting better results than what that trait can offer is pretty insane.

Mug never 1-shot anyone, what are you talking about? The most it hit for was 4k on a 30s cd in WvW with PvE gear (which has increased damage than sPvP). D/D got gutted really hard with C&D nerfs, DD nerfs, and HS nerfs. AS was nerfed from 150% on a single hit to 15% damage in 5 as well (which was the whole point of using it on insta-gib build for backstab).

Somehow I am getting the feeling you may not be as familiar with thief history as you feel you are. Perhaps you don’t even main a thief.

I’ve been playing signet stab since this game released. I know the damage achievable.

Check the screenshot. No signets needed. This is pretty normal for me against other thieves.

Multiply that out by 2.954 if it could crit without even the old AS. With the old AS, 4.43.

I’ll just say now I’m one of the hardest-hitting thieves in this game and have been playing as one of the hardest-hitters in this game since close to launch. Do not tell me that our Mug damage was only capable of such pitifully low values while critting, because 4k is nothing.

I hit pretty hard on up-leveled people too.

“No signets needed”?…yea…okay…I’m sure…..

That 10k+ C&D tells me more than enough about the validity of the screenshot.

Anyways, this is where I stop responding to your nonsensical babble, where you try validate yourself with deception, “DeceiverX”.

Back in the days I used to play 25/30/0/0/15 “railgun” d/d Thief as well and around 85% of all encounters ended up in a one-shot. With max bloodlust stacks and Force/Night I achieved 4~5k Steal and 6~8 C’n’D on other Thieves which was enough to proc the Executioner trait and ended up in a 15~18k Backstab without the need to use AS.
With Shadow Step+Steal you can achieve a gap close over a distance of 2000+ which is why I ended most fights before they began.

By all means but nothing has changed with nerfing Steal. The reason why this doesnt work anymore is that people using proper gear nowadays (at least some of them..) and d/p Thieves learned to use Pistol #5 earlier which interupted the combo by a miss thru blind.

So, did the nerf changed things in this specific case? Barely. Consider we are still talking about a 2~3k nerf in a 25k+ combo.
Do non-railgun builds suffer from under this change? Yes.

I think the dev wanted to let the d/d focus more on conditions which is a okay because d/d as zerk mode turned out pretty much helpless once 2 C’n’D missed and you are out of Initiative.
But on the other hand condition based Thieves suck balls really hard.
The missing ability to have a venom which inflicts burning is obsolete. Instead there is 1 that gives immobilize and another one gives chill. Its not like they almost do the same, not to mention stun and immob often have the same effect if its applied via Steal because daze procs traits to encounter being disabled anyways.
Furthermore Venoms, basicly toxic liquids, dont give Poison by nature which is the biggest joke ever.
And the only use of Offhand-Dagger is to get access to Death Blossom. Using #4 is a complete waste on every single spec right now in terms of cost/use especially if you consider how many classes have immunity/heavy duration reduce with traits.

But I dont expect anything from the guy who is charge for Thief balancing. He clearly proofed several times that he is biggest kitten in the team of anet since the beginning.
In relation to this are Traps from DH are still far too viable for the effort you get from (press 3 buttons, wait, bait someone, press another 3 buttons to proc dbl traps, woohoo..).

Silverbolt.2301:

DeceiverX.8361:

Silverbolt.2301:

DeceiverX.8361:

Mug one-shotted people when it could crit (it also got its damage nerfed), and it never healed beforehand. On a light or medium, I personally know I could reach close to 10k+ Mugs now in WvW. That’s kind of a problem And D/D OHKO never got nerfed. People learned how to play and realized D/P is just straight up better and offers more damage.

Frenzy GS war didn’t one-shot people and didn’t have stealth. I could run SR on S/D on a critting mug and hit for 8k + 8K CnD on most classes. Anything playing damage except a warrior would quite literally die before I’d get revealed.

Mug/PI removing the auto-crit procs are intentional. That’s part of the build and just how things are; a shatter mesmer would only get one clone to crit on a MR with Daredevul runes. Having run intelligence sigil and played with on-swap effects on the thief, you’ve gotta learn your timing better or sit back and realize you’re putting what’s effectively a GM trait in a line offering nothing but damage on weapons and runes. Expecting better results than what that trait can offer is pretty insane.

Mug never 1-shot anyone, what are you talking about? The most it hit for was 4k on a 30s cd in WvW with PvE gear (which has increased damage than sPvP). D/D got gutted really hard with C&D nerfs, DD nerfs, and HS nerfs. AS was nerfed from 150% on a single hit to 15% damage in 5 as well (which was the whole point of using it on insta-gib build for backstab).

Somehow I am getting the feeling you may not be as familiar with thief history as you feel you are. Perhaps you don’t even main a thief.

I’ve been playing signet stab since this game released. I know the damage achievable.

Check the screenshot. No signets needed. This is pretty normal for me against other thieves.

Multiply that out by 2.954 if it could crit without even the old AS. With the old AS, 4.43.

I’ll just say now I’m one of the hardest-hitting thieves in this game and have been playing as one of the hardest-hitters in this game since close to launch. Do not tell me that our Mug damage was only capable of such pitifully low values while critting, because 4k is nothing.

I hit pretty hard on up-leveled people too.

“No signets needed”?…yea…okay…I’m sure…..

That 10k+ C&D tells me more than enough about the validity of the screenshot.

Anyways, this is where I stop responding to your nonsensical babble, where you try validate yourself with deception, “DeceiverX”.

Unfortunately I cannot prove it was an 80 as people tend to respawn after they’re dead. I did get the backstab in a second screen. I have many others and have posted them in the past with 20k+ stabs, none of which are on uplevels.

You can live in denial if you want, though. You’ll never get your buffs because you’re simply incorrect.