(edited by babazhook.6805)
Worth reflection.
I believe the DE spec is going to be better then a lot of people suggest. This a link to the original DrD release which many mocked and ridiculed as garbage .
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/You-kidding-me/first
YES there were tweaks needed and applied in response to player input but if one looks at the critique of DrD and compares to today where so many claim it MANDATORY , there a lesson to be learned.
I doubt they will listen to the mandatory of the thief playerbase, just think about the broken shadowsteps since day 1, and I just find it ridiculous to believe there will even be a kind of overhaul of rifle (or at least a look on a specific skill) for example.
That ONE EXTRA dodge bar was huge and the DrD changed thief in a big way.
would be a start if malice would affect condi damage and/or more than one person. right now it is “just” a simple damage boost, which built up time is longer most fights last, doesn’t affect conditions and doesn’t affect more than one player.
The first patch to HOT came out 3 months after release. The second three months after that and further “fixes”
If we have luck we can have a fixed rifle maybe after 6 months. That’s a bright future, but I give you that. This is not a specific thief problem, I dislike Anet’s whole patch/balance policy. I just hope you will admit, that Anet never hurried with balance/engine/mechanic problems, even to this day.
I sincerely believe Deadeye is going to better than many people think and I also believe as far as “fleshing out” is concerned that it ahead of the DrD spec on release.
Sure it will perform better, since people will learn to adapt and to play it.
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I sincerely believe Deadeye is going to better than many people think and I also believe as far as “fleshing out” is concerned that it ahead of the DrD spec on release.
I don’t get your point.
It is better than Daredevil on release, and this helps with deadeye’s problems in which way?
Or did you mean rather “it is better than drd on release, so stop complaining and talking about problems” ( I know, I am a bit polemical here).
But I would like to read you thoughts about tweaks and fixes deadeye (and it’s rifle) needs.
(edited by Warrost.4895)
Doubting they will listen to the thief playerbase is contrary to the record. A number of tweaks I specifically suggested were implemented. This not to suggest that other players input ignored, just that it easier to remember ones own suggestions.
The point on DE being “further ahead” means just what it says, that being it my feeling DE will require fewer tweaks than did Daredevil.
Malice does not have to affect condition damage. Condition damage builds will already see a boost going this line. I played DrD in a condition build, Core in a Condition build and have done so for several years. On the beta i took this same build and traited into DE and saw the build perfrom better then it did in Drd and Core. I then tweaked from my old build so as to make it hybrid and it was better then my existing builds.
That said it was only a weekend so only time and some more thorough tests will be needed. The better performance might well have been due to the fact there so many new builds and no one really knowing how they worked.
As to my suggested tweaks, I would want to playtest further before doing that. I did already post some suggestions but will likely have to revisit that as I had not considered fully what all of these new skills can translate to. A weekend is just not enough time for that especially as I was testing a number of builds. My initial impressions are that most tweaks will be centered around rifle itself.
I would really like to see a comparison video of you, because I heavily doubt, that deadeye can in any way even come close to daredevil in terms of conditions. How should that even work? DD has no traits affecting conditions or dealing conditions at all
I would really like to see a comparison video of you, because I heavily doubt, that deadeye can in any way even come close to daredevil in terms of conditions. How should that even work? DD has no traits affecting conditions or dealing conditions at all
P/d uses stealth to apply its biggst condtion bomb , that being the AA and sneak attack.
Using the DE spec you can easily trait for ALL of your utilities to provide stealth PLUS get a second use off the elite. I would not recommend but am just pointing this fact out.
So compare the D/D DB user applying his best condtion source and that Deathblossom number 3. This costs the D?D build 12 ini to get on 9 stacks of bleed.
Just using the two stealths off the new Elite a p/d thief can stack 10 bleeds for the cost of 0 ini. There no need to close range and try a CnD.
Next up we have steal reset and mercy. Assume I am traited In DA , DE and Trickery. I mark my target which applies 5 confusion from BA , three poisons from Serpents touch, steals three boons , gives me vigor and two ini and applies weakness to an enemy. Ok we can do that in a DrD build too so what?
I then use MERCY and reset my steal and do the same thing again. All of those conditions are doubled up on.
That is not the sum total either. There are plenty of other benefits provided by the DE line. Just as example in the scenario above IF the target was a Revenant , I now have given myself close to 10 seconds resistance and have another 6 stacks of torment I can apply at range.
(edited by babazhook.6805)
That ONE EXTRA dodge bar was huge and the DrD changed thief in a big way.
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What are you even talking about? Daredevil was basically a retweaked acro line. Thief already had an extra dodge in the Acro line prior.
That ONE EXTRA dodge bar was huge and the DrD changed thief in a big way.
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What are you even talking about? Daredevil was basically a retweaked acro line. Thief already had an extra dodge in the Acro line prior.
I was quoting from the thread linked to where that was the critique of DrD. (I Capitalized that phrase for emphasis as the enitre thred was claiming it all DrD provided)
That said acro did not have endurance thief. Further to that 80 percent of thief builds were not speccing Acro prior to HOT. There are very few thieves that spec core and that because DrD makes theif that much better in most builds. This was the not case with the old Acro. If DrD is simply reworked Acro everyone would have been taking acro prior to HOT.
Added to that “The one extra dodge” does more then just provide an evade . It cleanses conditions, it adds health, and it provides the on dodge effects with the selected GM trait , something Acro never did.
Prior to DrD there were few complaints about “dodge spam Thief” or a “thief being impossible to lock down”. This came from the DrD line wherein many of those thieves that once relied on stealh to avoid damage shifted over to dodges.
(edited by babazhook.6805)
Daredevil was clunky and got buffed so it became good. Deadeye has nothing besides damage, but the damage is ridiculously high. Which means they will nerf it before PoF release and it will be a bad spec, which they will then buff in 6 months or so to be probably still bad. Deadeye needs either a deep rework or to get carried by his 10k critting Rifle #3.
Deadeye just doesn’t have anything broken about him outside of the damage. The traits are mild, the stolen skills are mild, the utilities are mild. Shadow Meld is the only potentially broken thing about it since it might make permastealth thieves even more obnoxious.
I mean, imagine the current Deadeye but with #3 being nerfed by 50% to be a pure self-buff skill and all the shots fixed to be reflectable. It’s going to be a total joke.
In PvE it’s going to be worse than DrD as well because you can’t make a good PvE condi build with DE. Lotus Training is too good. Does Malice even affect condi damage? You can have some 22k DPS zerker DE that shares buffs though, but I’m not sure how that’s any good.
Daredevil WAS garbage. It took over a year of buffs to beat it into shape.
I think Deadeye has a lot of potential, but I’d rather not have to wait a year for it to be good again.
Daredevil WAS garbage. It took over a year of buffs to beat it into shape.
I think Deadeye has a lot of potential, but I’d rather not have to wait a year for it to be good again.
Thief was released 2015 October with daredevil spec. January 2016 which was three months later saw the first major patch That patch had more fixes to other traitlines then to daredevil.
Outside Staff itself DrD was performing right out of the gate even as people claimed it as trash. Indeed the first posts claiming it mandatory and that all of the Elite specs were outperforming the old were happening less then a year after release of HOT.
First patch january 2016 3 months after release.
Second patch april 19 2016 6 months after release.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-April-19-2016/first#post6122828
Next major patch July 2016 9 months after rlease
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-July-26-2016-1/first#post6270415
Note that the first Patch saw significant enhnacements to Staff damage. There were minor fixes to other traits. Second patch saw some more adds to Staff.
By the third patch staff damage was already being cut. I see no evidence whatsoever to suggest that DRd was trash out of the gate. Given most of the patches rleted to staff damage and the Staff itself, persons specced in other weapon sets did NOT see many changes to the spec.
The vast majority of the patches post HOT fixed other traitlines
This is the patch from “a year after” HOT release.
To further provide evidence that The DrD spec was being used right out of the gate and was NOT trash that took one year to fix one can examine the change log on any given skill or trait via the Wiki.
To the Utilities.
Bandits defense HOT released October 23 2015.
One change was made to this skill that some 3 months later Jan 26 2016.
Channeled Vigot Released oct 23 2015.
Two changes made since rlease and BOTH were Nerfs PvP only.
Distracting Daggers. No changes listed since release until the pre patch for POF to use the Ammo system
Impairing Daggers No changes listed outside the fix of a bug in Feb 2016 which prevented them acting as projectile finishers,
Fist flurry No changes listed since release.
I do recall a change made to Fist flurry between the BETA and official release in direct reponse to player feedback wherein the total channel time lowered.
In other words if we go through all the utilities one received changes. This was in response to player feedback. This does not suggest the Utililities all were trash on release given they are pretty well the same since release.
To the traits out of the DrD line. There are 12 total.
Lotus training No changes listed outside a bug fix which was minor.
Unhindered Combat. No changes since release listed.
Bounding Dodger. 3 total changes listed. This included allowing the skill to work underwater , removing damage if skill canceled(exploit) , and decreasing damage PvP only.
In other words all the GM traits virtually unchanged since release/
The three Minors. No changes outside making heal from Driven fortitude appear in log listed since release that enhanced the skills. Endurance thief saw a nerf to endurance return PvP only.
Staff mastery. Bug fix that led to an exploit. No other changes listed.
Escapists absolution no changes since release listed.
Impacting disruption. Added theability to get a PI if theif was in the air. Lowered damage in PvP only. No other changes listed.
Havoc Mastery. No changes listed since release.
Weakening Strikes No changes since release listed.
Brawlers Tenacity. No changes since release listed.
These are all the traits and utilities and the vast majority are the same as on release. I fail to see how a traitline goes from being Crap to mandatory when next to no changes were made on any of these lised traits and utililties and I see no evidence it took a year to fix things.
If one goes to the forums or to REDDIT one will see people referring to the powercreep that HOT allowed and claiming the ELITE specs all but mandatory across the board for every class within 6 months of release.
That one Dodge Bar isn’t as great as it seems. Core Thief, the acrobatics spec, used to have a trait that immediately restored half of an endurance bar used from a dodge. When well timed, this basically gave the Core thief three dodges, or more.
What made Dare Devil so good were a few things.
A. It gave the Thief a well needed cleave.
B. It gave thief a targeted Mobility/evade skill with a melee weapon.
C. Damage ramping from vulnerability.
D. Reflection from an auto attack (you can hold onto it in a duel to take full advantage of it against someone who decided to swap to range)
E. Dodge moidifiers. Dodging is a MAJOR part of being a thief. And with the amount of times you dodge something as a thief, you’re getting a bonus effect. Conditions, Speed boost and a 15% damage reduction, or a raw damage stomp.
(edited by Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497)