Guild Wars 2

Hey all, so I’m picking thief back up after a break and would like a little help.

I used to run D/D full glass as it fits my play style and i find it most rewarding, is this still viable firstly.
Secondly its the gear, I’m happy with my way around traits but with the new runes and armor sets are throwing me off a little would mind finding out what works well.

If you have a full build you wanna throw up I’d be thankful to see it as well

cheers

Forgot to mention this is mainly for WvW

DeceiverX is the person to talk to about this, surprised he hasn’t posted yet.

Yup, DeceiverX is definitely the one to talk to about D/D ^^ Although if Jana is lurking she will probably have something good to add too.

It’s a hard set atm, but if you were running the full glass signet build before you probably already know what you’re letting yourself in for. Just more autoprocs and random cc now than there was, an instant kill is still an instant kill if you’re built for it.

Marauder is fully worth getting at least a few pieces. I have mara weapons, zerker armor with scholar runes, marauder amulet and zerk/valk trinkets and that sits me on 15k health pretty happily while not losing much damage from full zerk. I’d see what DeceiverX has tho, since he has more health and still hits like a truck.

Yeap, i’ll gonna hand them this one too, but i’ll add this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHdp7ooRsbo to get people exited about good play.

Like everyone else said, go to Jana or DecieverX for D/D, but i figured I’d throw in my build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoYVn8lCFOhlOBGmC8PhFYCb+DWCbhephzQbQLBEAyAA-TViFQBL4IAgQlGC4EAUv9HqiSQ8p+DAeAAr5QAYElZbGCAYVlUARszC-w

You just wanna use the normal conbos, but for me this build felt good with scrapper runes instead of the usual pack ones.

Hope this helps!

Power D/D is not a viable way of playing WvW at the moment at the higher skill echelons, regardless of how you configure traits and gear, and in all truth, regardless of how good you are at it. This is especially more apparent as you build further into higher damage and build higher-risk.

It will let you kill poor players and some squishy builds, but the stealth attack ICD/BV changes/HoT defensive powercreep have put the set into being so disadvantaged that even I stopped playing it – which meant for me, stopped playing thief altogether.

I’ll be totally honest, the video posted above was against such rather poor players. The play was overall fairly solid with a few nit-picky minor mistakes, but that’s about the best it’s going to perform at. Deeper analysis into the video demonstrates that Daredevil was essentially mandatory, and the Berserker had many opportunities to outright end the fight and never delivered.

If you want to play thief at a level of performance that won’t make you log out furious every half hour when you’re up against decent players using the more powerful builds in the game, you’re going to have to give up D/D power. There’s a movement to S/P and some P/P plays at the moment featuring similar or better burst damage which with Daredevil works similarly and typically exceeds the performance of D/D substantially.

DeceiverX.8361:

If you want to play thief at a level of performance that won’t make you log out furious every half hour when you’re up against decent players using the more powerful builds in the game, you’re going to have to give up D/D power. There’s a movement to S/P and some P/P plays at the moment featuring similar or better burst damage which with Daredevil works similarly and typically exceeds the performance of D/D substantially.

D/D condi is still somewhat viable tho. It’s not for everyone. Same deal with S/P.

Honestly, if OP wants the d/d style of play and still want to be more reliable s/d is still somewhat viable. I know you went that route before kicking the bucket on thief.

I mainly try to play d/d to burst but I don’t relay on it. After I do Steal > Cnd > Backstab, I try to see what my target does next and that will determine if I switch mine weapon set. What I’m trying to said is, you can play d/d for the burst damage but always swap weapons. After all, that’s what gw2 is about. D/d on its own it’s just not enough.

Eval.2371:

DeceiverX.8361:

If you want to play thief at a level of performance that won’t make you log out furious every half hour when you’re up against decent players using the more powerful builds in the game, you’re going to have to give up D/D power. There’s a movement to S/P and some P/P plays at the moment featuring similar or better burst damage which with Daredevil works similarly and typically exceeds the performance of D/D substantially.

D/D condi is still somewhat viable tho. It’s not for everyone. Same deal with S/P.

Honestly, if OP wants the d/d style of play and still want to be more reliable s/d is still somewhat viable. I know you went that route before kicking the bucket on thief.

Yea but you and I both know well D/D condi is gross to play and play against. It’s a broken kit that needs a rework because when played well in WvW it pretty much roflstomps whatever you throw at it without it needing to try very hard.

I simply just ran both D/D and S/D at the same time, something I can’t recommend doing now. S/D was a replacement for shortbow since it offered a bit more utility while fighting for my needs and preferences. I was particularly keen on the unblockable attack on LS for matchups with block-heavy builds like guardians, scrappers, and wars. But that’s because I also run so much damage and play so commitment-heavy that an LS crit would likely execute players taking defensive/last chance/recovery blocks. S/D as a main set is pretty whittle-heavy with intermittent spikes from AA3 and LS. It’s not really like D/D in the respect that its strength comes from a few seconds into the fight rather than as the fight starts. It plays well with Daredevil currently and that’s about it, and even then it’s mostly due to the boon rip wreaking havoc in the meta.

It really depends on how the OP plays or played D/D in the past. You had so many different styles of players on the set a while ago that I can’t simply make a recommendation inherently. Is the OP the type who played SA/high stealth, or aggressively and often out of stealth like me? Or AA Acro evasion? Did he try to maximize burst or go for the longer fights with resetting and teleports like Shadowstep? How dedicated to D/D was he after the fight started?

And of course, it also depends on how serious the OP is about winning fights and how he plays WvW in general.

It really is up in the air. I can’t in good faith recommend D/D power generally speaking as a primary loadout right now, particularly given the state of the game and the changes from this most recent patch. There’s a line between something being an under-performer and suffering so much that it’s just not worth getting so invested in trying to play particularly well, especially when against good opponents.

I’ve played a lot as thief in WvW, and most of it was D/D power. Secondary set was usually S/D or shortbow. Sadly D/D is not nearly as viable as it used to be, so now I usually run D/P and shortbow.

Which melee set gives you better options to control the pace of the engagement? D/P is better imo. If you want to stealth to get away from a player’s burst, dagger offhand is risky. Miss and you are often out of options. Pistol offhand is much more reliable, and even more so if you use bound to gain stealth because the overall initiative requirement is lower than blackpowder-heartseeker.

I won’t even get into the ICD on backstab. Still annoyed at Anet about that. D/D is hurt the most by this.

One thing that dagger offhand is better at is crippling enemies you are chasing. This is very useful in group fights, and I miss it with pistol offhand.

If you haven’t played in a while, check out Invigorating Precision in the Crit Strikes line. 15% of crit damage to health is great for sustain. Get lots of precision on that gear. I don’t run the usual Deadly Arts/Trickery but go with Crit Strikes/Acro and use bound as the daredevil dodge. I know it’s not meta, but the sustain is soo much better.

I’m curious.
Is Thief, not daredevil, viable build at all?

Tried D/D, P/P, S/P and now i found a somewhat “success” with Power D/P.

I’m coming back at the game after some time and while i wasn’t a brilliant player i think i was at least solid and nowadays i feel like anything that has a special class(like dareveil) just beat the crap out of me doesn’t matter what i use.

All that for WvW.

Divinorium.8952:

I’m curious.
Is Thief, not daredevil, viable build at all?

Tried D/D, P/P, S/P and now i found a somewhat “success” with Power D/P.

I’m coming back at the game after some time and while i wasn’t a brilliant player i think i was at least solid and nowadays i feel like anything that has a special class(like dareveil) just beat the crap out of me doesn’t matter what i use.

All that for WvW.

Core thief is still very Viable I use it all the time in All game modes, P/P is viable as well as D/P being the better set the S/X are viable as well but are more punishing.

In spvp I run pure Zerker Core thief using Da/Tri/Cs to great effect

Use either SA or Acro and vanilla thief should be viable. Carry at least two sources of condi clear.

Biggest thing is learning mechanics of your opponents more than anything else.

^ this SA is the better of the two defensive lines, if I wasn’t trying to improve on playing on thief I would run SA like I was all last season

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Divinorium.8952:

I’m curious.
Is Thief, not daredevil, viable build at all?

Tried D/D, P/P, S/P and now i found a somewhat “success” with Power D/P.

I’m coming back at the game after some time and while i wasn’t a brilliant player i think i was at least solid and nowadays i feel like anything that has a special class(like dareveil) just beat the crap out of me doesn’t matter what i use.

All that for WvW.

Core thief is still very Viable I use it all the time in All game modes, P/P is viable as well as D/P being the better set the S/X are viable as well but are more punishing.

In spvp I run pure Zerker Core thief using Da/Tri/Cs to great effect

I run full zerk. And biggest problem i’m having is that for some reason most of the new classes are tanky and give a crap ton fo damage, agains me full zerk.

I taking damage was like this before but now it seens like i don’t have enough damage to bring them down and when they are close of dying they just pop a invul and get the way out of me while i try to chase them with my 3 and that can go in on literally forever .(invul > heal > dodge> Aegis/invisi > invul > heal > dodge > ….)

It seens like even when i outplay them the odds still in their favor due my lack of CC.

If you’re in sPvP, use Marauder trinket, instead. The Berserker trinket is a poor performer across the board and marauder has more stat points on it by a substantial margin, because HoT.

Do this ^ even in Wvw you don’t want full zero I run it because I am a masochist. So far the only classes in Wvw I have trouble against are guards and Revs since they can out last any burst and if you try to reset they reset as well

DeceiverX.8361:

If you’re in sPvP, use Marauder trinket, instead. The Berserker trinket is a poor performer across the board and marauder has more stat points on it by a substantial margin, because HoT.

I’m on WvW. And should i go for for entire marauder set or just change some parts and what parts?

That depends on what you are comfortable with, Full marauder will work but a little overkill, a mix of Berzerker and marauder w/ some valk can be optimal

BlaqueFyre.5678:

That depends on what you are comfortable with, Full marauder will work but a little overkill, a mix of Berzerker and marauder w/ some valk can be optimal

you should try one of BlaqueFyre’s build
Roaming Build Ideas.

i really like his variant 1 build, the stats look pretty good

I came up with something so absurd recently I’m unwilling to post it, share it, or even play it. It pretty much would get backstab nerfed if enough people caught on for how much damage it can do and how few sacrifices are made.

Blaq and Eval (two thiefy guildmates of mine) have come up recently with some very solid builds in terms of stat performance and overall strength. I still prefer raw power over ferocity since I personally believe it makes builds more consistent and thus better killers, but your mileage will likely vary depending on what you do, what weapons you use, and how you play in WvW.

dude! you have to tell us D:

(just kidding lol)
i can only come up with this build according to your discrepancy, but just i might be way off.

darkaheart.4265:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

That depends on what you are comfortable with, Full marauder will work but a little overkill, a mix of Berzerker and marauder w/ some valk can be optimal

you should try one of BlaqueFyre’s build
Roaming Build Ideas.

i really like his variant 1 build, the stats look pretty good

Thanks for this hahah, I took a break due to a Business trip but will be testing a few builds later this week will update the thread once I find a few other builds that catch my fancy, I still have to try your build well a variant that would utilize a lot all of the Life steal food/runes/Sigils and so on. I think it can run a 16k hp well enough.

i just realized i quoted you and not Smithe lol

DeceiverX.8361:

Blaq and Eval (two thiefy guildmates of mine) have come up recently with some very solid builds in terms of stat performance and overall strength. I still prefer raw power over ferocity since I personally believe it makes builds more consistent and thus better killers, but your mileage will likely vary depending on what you do, what weapons you use, and how you play in WvW.

If anyone wants the skinny here is roughly what I run for wvw (add 85 power from infusions). I cap out about 90% crit chance with 265% crit damage.

I do swap out CS for acro taking bottom, middle, middle for outnumbered fights, and blinding powder in place of infiltrator signet.

As I said above it’s a matter of preference. I personally cannot stand having low precision because I set most of my damage up to happen over a series of attacks, so having high crit % and crit damage just makes sense to me for how I play.

We both know d/d is limited to hit and run tactics, which are better suited to the higher power/ferocity focus. Which is why I relate d/d closely with s/d as it’s the same thing just played differently. The issue with d/d’s set is it is focused on hit and run burst that hinges on a broken mechanic on top of being in a balance that is full of blocks and invulns.

In contrast if you run staff or s/p, or even to a lesser extent s/d with fist flurry; the multi hits combos allow you to face some of our problematic opponents defenses and spike through them. Stealth atttacks on these other sets are utlity focused rather than damage, so it’s not the end of the world when they don’t go through.

All that said, I will echo what many others suggested to the op; just go d/p if your looking for better consistency.

Eval.2371:

I do swap out CS for acro taking bottom, middle, middle for outnumbered fights, and blinding powder in place of infiltrator signet.

As I said above it’s a matter of preference. I personally cannot stand having low precision because I set most of my damage up to happen over a series of attacks, so having high crit % and crit damage just makes sense to me for how I play.

I’ve been using this build for awhile.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAsY6an0MBVmiFmCmOBkmilria+5v+uv7mmuAwbCygPA-TFCFABIp87Klg7fQA4/BAE8+DAcEA0X9H11PsZYAIMGgZkRmyAkvFA-w

When you’re on your acro version, are you still stretching out your attacks for the long game as you do when on CS? I know I could bring up my crit chance and ferocity but in our servers matchup right now I feel like I still have enough stopping power although sometimes someone gets away when I know they shouldn’t. Do you switch up to more power upfront when on acro or do you stay on the same stats?

kash.9213:

I’ve been using this build for awhile.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAsY6an0MBVmiFmCmOBkmilria+5v+uv7mmuAwbCygPA-TFCFABIp87Klg7fQA4/BAE8+DAcEA0X9H11PsZYAIMGgZkRmyAkvFA-w

I actually used to run basically a mirror copy of what you are running stat wise, just with furious oil, it’s a solid all around build.

kash.9213:

When you’re on your acro version, are you still stretching out your attacks for the long game as you do when on CS?

Maybe I worded my OP badly. My builds are focused more on multi hits for burst. I’ve run staff, p/d, s/d+fist flurry as well; all with great success. I just prefer s/p. I’m very aggressive, until I have to disengage.

As for the acro variant, it just allows me to be more mobile and not have to worry about conditions as much. The healing and init returns are nice as well. It allows me to be aggressive in outnumbered or larger scale fights as it allows me to be aggressive but still have resources in case I need to nope out.

kash.9213:

I know I could bring up my crit chance and ferocity but in our servers matchup right now I feel like I still have enough stopping power although sometimes someone gets away when I know they shouldn’t. Do you switch up to more power upfront when on acro or do you stay on the same stats?

Nope I run the exact same thing. Damage isn’t really lacking even in acro with the setup I run. 10-12k pistol whips in acro are very easily attainable. However, in contrast backstabs when I do run d/p only land for about 8k.

I wouldn’t recommend what I am running for a d/d or a normal s/d build (s/d + fist flurry is a big maybe but were talking minuscule gains). A P/P or multi hit setup most definitely.

Eval.2371:

Nope I run the exact same thing. Damage isn’t really lacking even in acro with the setup I run. 10-12k pistol whips in acro are very easily attainable. However, in contrast backstabs when I do run d/p only land for about 8k.

I wouldn’t recommend what I am running for a d/d or a normal s/d build. A P/P or multi hit setup most definitely.

I’m an idiot, my eyes were seeing s/d but you’re talking about s/p and it makes perfect sense. The feedback is still helps though, really appreciate it.

kash.9213:

Eval.2371:

Nope I run the exact same thing. Damage isn’t really lacking even in acro with the setup I run. 10-12k pistol whips in acro are very easily attainable. However, in contrast backstabs when I do run d/p only land for about 8k.

I wouldn’t recommend what I am running for a d/d or a normal s/d build. A P/P or multi hit setup most definitely.

I’m an idiot, my eyes were seeing s/d but you’re talking about s/p and it makes perfect sense. The feedback is still helps though, really appreciate it.

Effective power wise here is a comparison . They are both very close, in fact I wouldn’t lose sleep over it.

Here is something I have been working on lately it seems to do well

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fgw2skills.net%2Feditor%2F%3FvZAQJAoaEGOxyYR5NABwBsthlVHOf7%2F%2BxD-TlCBQBKUVgLpCCWUydSlgaU5Qe0DUJ1Oox%2BDA4EAAhHAQAAEgdWnBwRP6RP6RPaN6RP6RPapAEUnF-w

so i notice most of the builds here have very high crits. like above the average high lol
not saying its bad but i personality would never go above 80% with fury included. instead, i would invest in power, ferocity or even vitality, less vitality the more fun it is

i modified my build to the armor, weapons and trinkets i have access to. it still has the life steal signature because i feel like it gives it sustains. well at least for me since i still feel kind of new to thief and i do make mistakes. plus it by passes armor and its still consider damage.

check the image below and let me know what stat set you would prefer.

darkaheart.4265:

so i notice most of the builds here have very high crits. like above the average high lol
not saying its bad but i personality would never go above 80% with fury included. instead, i would invest in power, ferocity or even vitality, less vitality the more fun it is

i modified my build to the armor, weapons and trinkets i have access to. it still has the life steal signature because i feel like it gives it sustains. well at least for me since i still feel kind of new to thief and i do make mistakes. plus it by passes armor and its still consider damage.

check the image below and let me know what stat set you would prefer.

Everything I am posting, and to extent what blaq is posting are builds optimized for multi hit skills. He runs p/p frequently where as I run s/p. From our weapon sets perspective having 7/8 hits crit is more damage than 4/8 even if the base stats are lower. In contrast I’m pretty sure DeceiverX’s build which is d/d focused doesn’t have much more than 30% crit chance before furry. Everyones got their own preferences & different weapons work better with different stat setups.

Which leads me to your two images. I would run the one the right for d/p, d/d or s/d.
The one of the left would be better for s/p, p/p and staff if you don’t primarily focus vault. Honestly, for your vamp build the higher power build gives you larger siphon returns, and its a dagger main hand build, so it’s def the better stats for your setup.

Eval.2371:

Maybe I worded my OP badly. My builds are focused more on multi hits for burst. I’ve run staff, p/d, s/d+fist flurry as well; all with great success. I just prefer s/p. I’m very aggressive, until I have to disengage.

sorry, i missed that part >.<

anyways, i ran into this s/p thief earlier. it was my first counter vs s/p so i was kind of surprised. im not sure how good he was or what do you guys think about his build. i didnt ask him for his build but i did put most of the pieces together after i review the videos. tbh i feel kind of cheated and annoyed about the build, especially since i wasnt expecting him to be using runes of the defender. ill let you guys be the judge.
feedback is also appreciated since i didnt really know how to deal with him, even though he won 4/7 fights.

check it out
https://youtu.be/-bKl9ipWqXA

most of his build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsaFn8lCFmiVOBkmiFYCbWJsF6lGODtBtEQAAA-T1AEABAcCAI4BAQ++DkCoclRA-w

darkaheart.4265:

anyways, i ran into this s/p thief earlier. it was my first counter vs s/p so i was kind of surprised. im not sure how good he was or what do you guys think about his build. i didnt ask him for his build but i did put most of the pieces together after i review the videos. tbh i feel kind of cheated and annoyed about the build, especially since i wasnt expecting him to be using runes of the defender. ill let you guys be the judge.
feedback is also appreciated since i didnt really know how to deal with him, even though he won 4/7 fights.

check it out
https://youtu.be/-bKl9ipWqXA

From what I see hes running gimicks and does not really understand the set. He gets that impact->uppercut or bandits defense-> kick allows him a free pw. I didn’t see a single precast shadowstep of any form with pistol whip as well there was numerous times he watched you expend all your init pool and then let you stand in his face auto attacking instead of fighting back.

So, I wouldn’t say he was he was good or really knew what he was doing, or really knew what he was trying to do with his build as he didn’t really hit hard (my p/w are usually more than double his usual, he also didnt make use of stealth at all it seemed, he also had very little access to it as well (no bound, no blinding powder, very little use of sb).

Some tips to counter someone at this level are:

• Try keeping black powder underneath them and auto attacking them to death when p/w isnt active.
• You can also just interrupt pistol whip, it as a pretty long pre evade window where you can shut it down.
• One other thing is if your going to go in for backstab, and hes casting p/w or you think hes going to… attack from the sides, not directly behind him, as P/W hit area is like a triangle: think of the one of the points of the trangle behind him and the two other points out in front of him. If you end up in that triangle you get cleaved.

I play thief just for fun in WvW and not very often. I made a fun build that feels compftable for me and it works :-). It´s the build i dare to break the DH´s reputation as thief killer. Tho engi is quite hard ….
And since i am not a good thief other thiefs tend to kill me…

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqaVn0MBFmitNBmNB8PhFeCbOB+ArganpfQAgrEkBGBA-TlCGABA8AA49QAYlSQVU/h69HM+EAE9RAAJlfhoHADNBBAQA466cn7cn3sUAmLsC-w

Eval.2371:

• Try keeping black powder underneath them and auto attacking them to death when p/w isnt active.
• You can also just interrupt pistol whip, it as a pretty long pre evade window where you can shut it down.
• One other thing is if your going to go in for backstab, and hes casting p/w or you think hes going to… attack from the sides, not directly behind him, as P/W hit area is like a triangle: think of the one of the points of the trangle behind him and the two other points out in front of him. If you end up in that triangle you get cleaved.

thanks for the feedback Eval.
next time, ill try to use this tips

before this, i forgot when was the last time i saw the description for piston whip. i didnt know it stunned and instead i always thought it evaded or maybe that was a long time ago. one of the major things i kept doing wrong was getting in front of him and he randomly doing pistol whip. if i would have notice he was running defender runes i would have taken a different approach. I’ll also try to zoom in more because i could hardly tell the animations on asuras. oh well, maybe next time I’ll get him >=D

DeceiverX.8361:

I came up with something so absurd recently I’m unwilling to post it, share it, or even play it. It pretty much would get backstab nerfed if enough people caught on for how much damage it can do and how few sacrifices are made.

Blaq and Eval (two thiefy guildmates of mine) have come up recently with some very solid builds in terms of stat performance and overall strength. I still prefer raw power over ferocity since I personally believe it makes builds more consistent and thus better killers, but your mileage will likely vary depending on what you do, what weapons you use, and how you play in WvW.

So…. i went hunting for mauder stuff and since i didn’t found, it’s possible to get Marauder ascended trinkets without HoT? I mean i didn’t find how to get aside from a HoT achievement reward.

And if it’s really that i’m not sure how i feel about it, i mean Marauder have a whole 40% more stats than the stuff i have…..

The new stats are not available to users without HoT. It’s crafted using HoT-only recipes or HoT-only rewards. ANet no longer cares about you if you don’t have HoT. Everything is full-HoT.

That’s pretty much why so many people (who no longer play and/or played competitively in WvW) hated on the expansion and still do; it absolutely broke the game with the amount of power creep it brought.

I’m hording materials for the next expansion already because I’m just going to assume they’ll release gear with another 40% more stats on it.

Edit, wrong thread.

Eval.2371:

kash.9213:

Eval.2371:

Nope I run the exact same thing. Damage isn’t really lacking even in acro with the setup I run. 10-12k pistol whips in acro are very easily attainable. However, in contrast backstabs when I do run d/p only land for about 8k.

I wouldn’t recommend what I am running for a d/d or a normal s/d build. A P/P or multi hit setup most definitely.

I’m an idiot, my eyes were seeing s/d but you’re talking about s/p and it makes perfect sense. The feedback is still helps though, really appreciate it.

Effective power wise here is a comparison . They are both very close, in fact I wouldn’t lose sleep over it.

Question on that effective power chart.

When looking at the Damage modifier does this include only the permanent modifiers such as Sigil of force which would count as compared to a executioner which would not?

How are things like DD runes and Sigil of intell factored in? I can use these to more or less generate a crit or crits at will so get away with a lower crit rate yet this will not be reflected in “effective power”.

Given a Thief does a lot of hit and run having a Crit rate that is not ALWAYS at 80 percent as example does not mean you have that much less effective power as one is not always attacking.

Based on the spreadsheet, it looks like none of said bonuses were considered outside of a factored bonus of the differences from NQ/PT (just a guess here).

It comes down to the old DPH/DPS argument and what constitutes “enough”.

As Eval mentioned, his build is intended for multi-hit builds utilizing skills like Unload and Pistol Whip, which have strictly higher demands for more precision rather than being able to focus everything into DPH while getting one-off/two-off crits (such as a build like mine).

If Eval and I both swapped weapons without traits or gear, we’d both see substantial losses in our damage, since his crit chance would be redundant on a one/two-hit build, and my crit chance would be too low to make P/W actually do very much, despite my build having between 20 and 60% more “effective power” than both.

Such builds are also dependent on matchups as well. Eval’s will inherently do better in situations where targets have lower toughness and if he gets might from allies, however Kash will have better damage against high-toughness targets or with limited boon coverage (albeit it takes little to put Eval’s build in a superior position in almost every environment due to the sheer ferocity difference).

babazhook.6805:

Question on that effective power chart.

When looking at the Damage modifier does this include only the permanent modifiers such as Sigil of force which would count as compared to a executioner which would not?

How are things like DD runes and Sigil of intell factored in? I can use these to more or less generate a crit or crits at will so get away with a lower crit rate yet this will not be reflected in “effective power”.

Given a Thief does a lot of hit and run having a Crit rate that is not ALWAYS at 80 percent as example does not mean you have that much less effective power as one is not always attacking.

Those deliberate effects like a DD rune crit need to be maintained and during the time you’re dodging or swapping weapons not doing direct damage with that extra crit right away Evals build is winding up like a ten speed bicycle gear, once it gets going it’s maintained pretty much nonstop by weapon skills alone (Like Diablo 3 Monks Sweeping Wind skill).

I tried pushing DD rune crits before and there were stretches where I just couldn’t dodge or I’d dodge and before I can land the next hit I’m interrupted or have to bug out and reset. I’m sure you’re right that it contributes a good deal more than it would show on a chart but the CS build is probably more reliably measured because it’s reliably executed.

DeceiverX.8361:

The new stats are not available to users without HoT. It’s crafted using HoT-only recipes or HoT-only rewards. ANet no longer cares about you if you don’t have HoT. Everything is full-HoT.

That’s pretty much why so many people (who no longer play and/or played competitively in WvW) hated on the expansion and still do; it absolutely broke the game with the amount of power creep it brought.

I’m hording materials for the next expansion already because I’m just going to assume they’ll release gear with another 40% more stats on it.

Just gave up in the game. The powercreep is ridiculous. Not fun trying to fight classes that have 8 buffs up without doing kitten, while you struggle to, try to, do something.

No wonders even with the links and Megaserver the game is a ghosttown, anet is sure doing a hell of kittenty job.

I guess legion here i go.

kash.9213:

babazhook.6805:

Question on that effective power chart.

When looking at the Damage modifier does this include only the permanent modifiers such as Sigil of force which would count as compared to a executioner which would not?

How are things like DD runes and Sigil of intell factored in? I can use these to more or less generate a crit or crits at will so get away with a lower crit rate yet this will not be reflected in “effective power”.

Given a Thief does a lot of hit and run having a Crit rate that is not ALWAYS at 80 percent as example does not mean you have that much less effective power as one is not always attacking.

Those deliberate effects like a DD rune crit need to be maintained and during the time you’re dodging or swapping weapons not doing direct damage with that extra crit right away Evals build is winding up like a ten speed bicycle gear, once it gets going it’s maintained pretty much nonstop by weapon skills alone (Like Diablo 3 Monks Sweeping Wind skill).

I tried pushing DD rune crits before and there were stretches where I just couldn’t dodge or I’d dodge and before I can land the next hit I’m interrupted or have to bug out and reset. I’m sure you’re right that it contributes a good deal more than it would show on a chart but the CS build is probably more reliably measured because it’s reliably executed.

It a question of timing your bursts for the opportune moment when using what I suggested and yes it much harder to do than that always on crit rate. I put the maximum amount of power into my own build so after stacks the base is right at 3K.

Now with that high power base and all of the damage multipliers even a non crit can hit hard and especially against lower armor. With Multi Hit attacks I am not looking exclusively at generating damage and as many crits as possible. I am also looking at proccing on hit effects and in particular might.

P/P is used to generate might and do damage at range as I close.

Now in WvW this coupled with the boon duration and the proc might on crit food so even if I generate a lower rate of crits I get thos might stacks up with less ini. It then that I swap with a full 15 percent off lead attacks and generally high might pushing power over 3700 and spike damage with the intell sigil. I then kick in my haste (I prefer the haste trait over TOTC in trickery) through one of two sources and boost the sheer number of AA attacks via quickness. The theory is even if only half crit I am still getting more hits in due to quickness at max power.

Generally if this does not take an enemy down it does bring me to the point where INI is coming back and I am ready for the next swap. The Crit off dodge is a sort of fail safe used more in a build like d/p where one more attack can generally finish a guy via heartseeker with a guaranteed crit or even a dodge into the opponent via bounding dodger.

Now what I have been toying with is the idea of using that same might stacking off the P/P unload coupled with stacking Vulnerability . When others in my group do stack this on a foe my damage goes way way up even with no crits. I am speculating it might be possible to do that indpendently.

This would not show on those damage charts. It also might not be doable but the only valid way of making such a build work would be via multi hit type attacks the theory being , get this multi hit type attacks doing as many things as possible.

kash.9213:

Evals build is winding up like a ten speed bicycle gear, once it gets going it’s maintained pretty much nonstop by weapon skills alone (Like Diablo 3 Monks Sweeping Wind skill).

Eh the ramp up is simply how I decide furry is applied… so when ever I steal or proc unrelenting strikes. Which persists until I have no target to hit, or have the boon ripped.

babazhook.6805:

Question on that effective power chart.

When looking at the Damage modifier does this include only the permanent modifiers such as Sigil of force which would count as compared to a executioner which would not?

So if two builds have the same damage modifer I don’t bother to include them in the extra’s section. EG both builds have havok mastery. Single hit traits or low uptime I often don’t bother with either.

As for extra modifiers in total, you multiply them by each other. So sigil of force(1.05), and havok mastery(1.07) for are both persisting modifiers. So combined they would add a value of 1.1235. You can see I’ve manually calculated out the combined modifier values on kashes build for seaweed salad and swindlers and put them in the damage modifier box where there are differences between to two.

I typically do not factor in traits like executioner other than to quickly glance at them, as they are erratic on uptime. Which is hard to factor out and I’ll get into an example of below.

babazhook.6805:

How are things like DD runes and Sigil of intell factored in? I can use these to more or less generate a crit or crits at will so get away with a lower crit rate yet this will not be reflected in “effective power”.

Given a Thief does a lot of hit and run having a Crit rate that is not ALWAYS at 80 percent as example does not mean you have that much less effective power as one is not always attacking.

Umm something like that you would be terribly complex to factor out. In the past I have abused both those runes in question, the issue with them is you have terribly low uptime and its really complex to factor that out into a extra % chance gain.

On the build calc you add any kind of bonus from sigil or rune affects for crit chance into the extra crit chance field. A common one for thief would be side strike.

babazhook.6805:

P/P is used to generate might and do damage at range as I close.

It then that I swap with a full 15 percent off lead attacks and generally high might pushing power over 3700 and spike damage with the intell sigil. I then kick in my haste through one of two sources and boost the sheer number of AA attacks via quickness. The theory is even if only half crit I am still getting more hits in due to quickness at max power.

I’ve explained above in some detail how sigil of intel uptime value works out. Basically the way use use sigil of intel makes the effective value of it less with quickness and you’d be better off with sigil of accuracy. The same would apply for daredevil rune, you’d be better off with a rune of strength, furry, or even scholar, assuming your crit chance is somewhat reasonable (30% before furry).

babazhook.6805:

This would not show on those damage charts. It also might not be doable but the only valid way of making such a build work would be via multi hit type attacks the theory being , get this multi hit type attacks doing as many things as possible.

What your trying to compare is a burst situation to effective power. Two completely different things. Effective power, is the offensive value of your stats, completely separate from your rotation.

Those numbers can show in those damage charts, but it is unrealistic to add them to it. Doing so would require you to calculate them out properly, which people will be skeptical about; especially when the value of sigil of intelligence is anywhere between 12.5%-100% Crit chance without quickness per 9 seconds on a single target, assuming you swap exactly every 9 seconds. It’s much like how sigil of air and fire will never show up on these charts, even tho they do add damage.

Divinorium.8952:

Just gave up in the game. The powercreep is ridiculous. Not fun trying to fight classes that have 8 buffs up without doing kitten, while you struggle to, try to, do something.

No wonders even with the links and Megaserver the game is a ghosttown, anet is sure doing a hell of kittenty job.

I guess legion here i go.

Enjoy your break! (which is what I’m on until I see how oct 4th patch plays out)