Guild Wars 2

I love the rogue class in most mmorpgs. My first max level character in WoW was a rogue. It pains me to say that the GW2 Thief is very much NOT a rogue.

This class isn’t as much fun to me as the others to me. This is the last class I need to get to 80 before the expansion launch, and it feels so limited. All the other classes feel like they a bunch of options to pick from. This one does not. He dies rather easily also. It made sense for the elementalist to be squishy, but the thief doesn’t feel like he has the damage to back up his level of squishy. He also feels rather limited in weapon selection.

Am I doing something wrong? Can anyone tell me how to make this class as fun as a traditional rogue?

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate the class. I hated leveling the engineer, but the thief is just ‘meh’. It feels unfinished, and like an afterthought. It feels to me as if little to no work went into the class design at all.

i couldn’t disagree more O_o
thief is most versatile class in the game and has more viable builds than any other class.
it just might be hard at first because u need quick reflexes and great knowledge of other classes.
not sure if u r pve or pvp player so can’t tell u what build is most fun for me
and by tradiotanal rogue u mean stealth burst i guess?? d/p is great for perma stealth
but this class is not for everyone so not gonna try to force it or brainwash u to play it :P

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-is-NOT-a-Rogue

No, it’s not a Rogue.

What level are you now? It’s been a while since I leveled mine, but Thief gets more funny when you reach lvl 80, just stick with him/her.

That being said, Thief has been nerfed several times, but is still very playable in most modes, especially in WvW as a solo roamer.

What modes would you play your Thief?

Fingod.3819:

i couldn’t disagree more O_o
thief is most versatile class in the game and has more viable builds than any other class.
it just might be hard at first because u need quick reflexes and great knowledge of other classes.

Never seen anything besides roaming thieves in PvP. Its the class with one of the worst possible build variations. Engi for example is a class with a real broad spectrum of builds.

Mayama.1854:

Fingod.3819:

i couldn’t disagree more O_o
thief is most versatile class in the game and has more viable builds than any other class.
it just might be hard at first because u need quick reflexes and great knowledge of other classes.

Never seen anything besides roaming thieves in PvP. Its the class with one of the worst possible build variations. Engi for example is a class with a real broad spectrum of builds.

build variation and ur job in pvp isn’t rlly the same now is it? ^^
as a thief u have 3 viable power build atleast + some not the most viable but still working like p/d power.
and u also have the condi builds.
as for a engi u have cele rifle static discharge whitch is semi troll and u have ur condi and condi bunker.
engi has rifle,pistol/pistol and pistol/shield for weps and as for thief u have d/d, s/d, p/d,d/p,s/p and sb so build versatility is much higher than with engi imo also the play style changes alot more than with engi or any other profession but this is just my opinion

Margrave.2071:

I love the rogue class in most mmorpgs. My first max level character in WoW was a rogue. It pains me to say that the GW2 Thief is very much NOT a rogue.

Thief isn’t a rogue, was never intended to play as a rogue and will never be a rogue.

Margrave.2071:

I
All the other classes feel like they a bunch of options to pick from. This one does not.

What do you mean by options? damage, blind, reflect, stealth, mobility. This profession have a lot of option in fight, so I’m not sure if I get what you mean.

Margrave.2071:

It made sense for the elementalist to be squishy, but the thief doesn’t feel like he has the damage to back up his level of squishy. He also feels rather limited in weapon selection.

Am I doing something wrong? Can anyone tell me how to make this class as fun as a traditional rogue?

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate the class. I hated leveling the engineer, but the thief is just ‘meh’. It feels unfinished, and like an afterthought. It feels to me as if little to no work went into the class design at all.

Margrave.2071:

It made sense for the elementalist to be squishy, but the thief doesn’t feel like he has the damage to back up his level of squishy.

Well the thief is the highest single target dps in the game so…. What level of damage would the thief need to back up his level of squishy??

Margrave.2071:

He also feels rather limited in weapon selection.

It only have 9 different weapons combination. That more than engie and ele, but that’s less than the usually 12 that most other profession got so you are partially right. But Thief have dual skills that give them about the same amount of weapons skills as the other profession. Thief is pretty much in the middle in that category.

Margrave.2071:

Am I doing something wrong? Can anyone tell me how to make this class as fun as a traditional rogue?

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate the class. I hated leveling the engineer, but the thief is just ‘meh’. It feels unfinished, and like an afterthought. It feels to me as if little to no work went into the class design at all.

Yes you are doing something wrong. You have two options here. Try to understand and appreciate the profession because I assure you that it isn’t an unfinished one. Or figure out that the thief isn’t a profession you enjoy and play on of the other 7.

I’m a pve player. Not into pvp personally. I made this topic to try to understand what I’m doing wrong. I’ve tried all of the weapon combos, and I’ve leveled every other class to 80. I’m an alt-o-holic, so I have to get this thief to 80 before I can start to work on the new class in the expansion. I just swapped all my gear, which was all + cond. dmg for +toughness gear, and so far it seems to have helped. I’m currently level 55, and my build is 2,1,2,0,0. The best weapon combo I can come up with so far is just D/D.

I know it’s me, I was just saying how it feels to play the class to me. Once I get him to 80, I will most likely move to a different class to play until the expansion is released.

I was hoping for tips, builds, techniques to try out…. from someone….

To me, stealth feels like a burden to try to use.

d/d bosses and s/p for stack in pve imo
and yea u should always run full zerk in pve ^^
and in pve dungeons stealth is ur best help and can make dungeon run much faster and easier as u can help pugs skip content with it
also u can do alot of cool shadow step tricks in pve and solo lot of content but those r kinda not for new players ^^

full zerk?

Pardon my ignorance…

Fingod.3819:

Mayama.1854:

Fingod.3819:

i couldn’t disagree more O_o
thief is most versatile class in the game and has more viable builds than any other class.
it just might be hard at first because u need quick reflexes and great knowledge of other classes.

Never seen anything besides roaming thieves in PvP. Its the class with one of the worst possible build variations. Engi for example is a class with a real broad spectrum of builds.

build variation and ur job in pvp isn’t rlly the same now is it? ^^
as a thief u have 3 viable power build atleast + some not the most viable but still working like p/d power.
and u also have the condi builds.
as for a engi u have cele rifle static discharge whitch is semi troll and u have ur condi and condi bunker.
engi has rifle,pistol/pistol and pistol/shield for weps and as for thief u have d/d, s/d, p/d,d/p,s/p and sb so build versatility is much higher than with engi imo also the play style changes alot more than with engi or any other profession but this is just my opinion

Rapid condi engi, bunker condi engi, turret engi offensive, turret engi defensive (you can play any turret build condi or power too), static discharge, full zerker power rifle, mightstacking power, might stacking hybrid, 3kit engis (their are at least 4-5 combinations of that used), elixier focused power build, bleed stacking elixir gun build etc etc etc… thats just from the top of my head. You cant define engi just by their weapon sets, every kit is basicaly a weapon set with no cooldown attached.

Edit: i totaly forgot bomb or nade focused builds their are at least 4 that I know that work really good in pvp. About playstyle changes… a full power rifle build plays completly different from a turret bunker even if they use the same weapon sets. Engis have like 20-30 options in PvP

Mayama.1854:

Fingod.3819:

Mayama.1854:

Fingod.3819:

i couldn’t disagree more O_o
thief is most versatile class in the game and has more viable builds than any other class.
it just might be hard at first because u need quick reflexes and great knowledge of other classes.

Never seen anything besides roaming thieves in PvP. Its the class with one of the worst possible build variations. Engi for example is a class with a real broad spectrum of builds.

build variation and ur job in pvp isn’t rlly the same now is it? ^^
as a thief u have 3 viable power build atleast + some not the most viable but still working like p/d power.
and u also have the condi builds.
as for a engi u have cele rifle static discharge whitch is semi troll and u have ur condi and condi bunker.
engi has rifle,pistol/pistol and pistol/shield for weps and as for thief u have d/d, s/d, p/d,d/p,s/p and sb so build versatility is much higher than with engi imo also the play style changes alot more than with engi or any other profession but this is just my opinion

Rapid condi engi, bunker condi engi, turret engi offensive, turret engi defensive (you can play any turret build condi or power too), static discharge, full zerker power rifle, mightstacking power, might stacking hybrid, 3kit engis (their are at least 4-5 combinations of that used), elixier focused power build, bleed stacking elixir gun build etc etc etc… thats just from the top of my head. You cant define engi just by their weapon sets, every kit is basicaly a weapon set with no cooldown attached.

Edit: i totaly forgot bomb or nade focused builds their are at least 4 that I know that work really good in pvp. About playstyle changes… a full power rifle build plays completly different from a turret bunker even if they use the same weapon sets. Engis have like 20-30 options in PvP

lol if u go that way yea u can build troll builds on thiefs too ^^
i was just listing viable builds but whatever ^^

oh and i don’t rlly count it fully different build if u change one utility or one trait but u clearly do ^^

Margrave.2071:

full zerk?

Pardon my ignorance…

Zerk = Beserker, one of the two best stats distribution with assassin in PvE. If you don’t know what zerk is, then we may have the reason why you have some difficulty with thief

You mean talent point distributions?

The gear. Bezerker = Power, Precision, Ferocity

Fingod.3819:

oh and i don’t rlly count it fully different build if u change one utility or one trait but u clearly do ^^

That’s cause you’re being ignorant.

1 kit changes way more than 1 weapon change on a thief.

The skills also don’t all share the same resource pool.

Kurow.3076:

Fingod.3819:

oh and i don’t rlly count it fully different build if u change one utility or one trait but u clearly do ^^

That’s cause you’re being ignorant.

1 kit changes way more than 1 weapon change on a thief.

The skills also don’t all share the same resource pool.

i don’t agree but whatever ^^

Margrave.2071:

I’m a pve player. Not into pvp personally. I made this topic to try to understand what I’m doing wrong. I’ve tried all of the weapon combos, and I’ve leveled every other class to 80. I’m an alt-o-holic, so I have to get this thief to 80 before I can start to work on the new class in the expansion. I just swapped all my gear, which was all + cond. dmg for +toughness gear, and so far it seems to have helped. I’m currently level 55, and my build is 2,1,2,0,0. The best weapon combo I can come up with so far is just D/D.

I know it’s me, I was just saying how it feels to play the class to me. Once I get him to 80, I will most likely move to a different class to play until the expansion is released.

I was hoping for tips, builds, techniques to try out…. from someone….

To me, stealth feels like a burden to try to use.

So the thief benefits little from passive stats relative to other classes due to a number of things, but largely due to lack of defensive/supportive boons.

You should try to prioritize your stats as:

Power>Crit damage>Precision>Vitality (perhaps switching crit damage and precision depending on your exact build)

You can prioritize these because what the thief lacks in passive traits/defense, they make up for in largely active defense or ways to augment their active defenses (see feline grace). Your survivability comes from dodges or weapon evades. Against large numbers of trash mobs, S/P works excellently because of the cleaves and evades. D/D works well against single targets (such as bosses) where there are fewer attacks coming at you so they can be dodged regularly.

Gear into power based gear, and make up for those lack of defenses with your traits. If this is initially too difficult to do, start out with PVT gear and keep switching it slowly to zerker gear as you become more comfortable with the class’ mechanics.

Fingod.3819:

Kurow.3076:

Fingod.3819:

oh and i don’t rlly count it fully different build if u change one utility or one trait but u clearly do ^^

That’s cause you’re being ignorant.

1 kit changes way more than 1 weapon change on a thief.

The skills also don’t all share the same resource pool.

i don’t agree but whatever ^^

Ignoring reality and living inside a made up bubble of pseudo knowledge doesnt change fact

Mayama.1854:

Fingod.3819:

Kurow.3076:

Fingod.3819:

oh and i don’t rlly count it fully different build if u change one utility or one trait but u clearly do ^^

That’s cause you’re being ignorant.

1 kit changes way more than 1 weapon change on a thief.

The skills also don’t all share the same resource pool.

i don’t agree but whatever ^^

Ignoring reality and living inside a made up bubble of pseudo knowledge doesnt change fact

yea okey if u want to go this way i rlly do think u r the one ignoring reality and thinking ur build changes more with one kit when u still playstyle is exactly the same in almost every build in engi no matter what u say unlike thief ur play style has to change depending on ur build and enemy. but if u don’t know how thiefs or this game works i don’t rlly care to debate about it with u
if u can’t see that i am sry for u but hope that u have fun and gl with the game

also the build variety maybe shows in gvg too u normally have 2 different kinds of thiefs and 0 engis maybe max 1 because u can’t change their playstyle to fit those situations unlike u can with thief

but enough of being salty ^^ gl hf

Fingod.3819:

but enough of being salty ^^ gl hf

What is with people like you, go around and ask people on the forum what has more diverse roles and builds engi or thief… I doubt the majority says thief but go live inside your bubble of hundreds of thief builds.

yea i can live in my bubble of 100 of builds while u can live in the bubble of diverse roles and playstyles of engis

Interesting…
2nd post of it’s kind, and from someone that seems new to the class. Wonder if more posts of this kind will be created.

Essentially what maug said though. SB is typically used a utility weapon… Besides D/D and S/P you can give P/P, an unload build of a sort, a shot ( ) again for single target.

Thank you guys for the advise!

Thanks Maugetarr.6823, that sounds good

I have seen every weapon put to some good use at least in 1 of all 3 modes,as well as every trait line. Stop trying to associate thief with rogue be glad it’s not a copy and paste, thief doesn’t die easy in pve imo, mess around with IP it’s a nice trait.

Margrave.2071:

Thank you guys for the advise!

Thanks Maugetarr.6823, that sounds good

Glad to help a new(ish) thief!

“mess around with IP it’s a nice trait.”

What’s IP? Intellectual Properties?

I guess that he mean Invigorating Precision

I want to comment: i agree with you Margrave about thief class and i have answer to your question (opinion).

Am I doing something wrong? You are not doing anything wrong at all, it is the way Arena net design thief class: very high damage:instant kill with very weak defense without stealth.

Can anyone tell me how to make this class as fun as a traditional rogue? I do not think Arena net design thief to be fun:challenge class because a rogue profession like wow is not like thief.

Why is wow rogue profession is fun vs arena net thief not fun?

Wow rogue have risk and consequence for make choice and to take advantage, Arena net thief do not have risk and consequence for make choice and to take advantage.

Example: stealth

Wow rogue stealth have risk and consequence for using it,
Arena net thief stealth have no risk and no consequence for using it.

Wow rogue stealth have strict consequence if make mistake,
Arena net thief stealth have no consequence at all for make mistake: they reset every time when make any mistake.

Last:

Wow rogue is fun because you learn because of challenge,
Arena net thief is not fun because you do not learn anything at all: all you do is repeat same thing, over and over again, which is not challenge.

Wow rogue also learn when to use other skill to be effective more: their skill is time with coold own.
Arena net thief do not learn anything when to use other skill to be effective, because they do not have cool down and that when they use a skill, they always have other skill ready to use again and again.

In conclusion, arena net thief do no offer any option but to repeat the same thing over and over again and not offer any challenge for thief player.

Where is fun to only repeat same thing over and over again?
Where is fun to use same thing over and over again?

I understand why Margrave feel thief is unfinished because that is not what a rogue class should be. If want be a rogue class, be honest instead of using rogue as excuse!!

(I list some but there is more)

Thanks Thaddeus.4891!

DarkSyze.8627:

I want to comment: i agree with you Margrave about thief class and i have answer to your question (opinion).

Am I doing something wrong? You are not doing anything wrong at all, it is the way Arena net design thief class: very high damage:instant kill with very weak defense without stealth.

Can anyone tell me how to make this class as fun as a traditional rogue? I do not think Arena net design thief to be fun:challenge class because a rogue profession like wow is not like thief.

Why is wow rogue profession is fun vs arena net thief not fun?

Wow rogue have risk and consequence for make choice and to take advantage, Arena net thief do not have risk and consequence for make choice and to take advantage.

Example: stealth

Wow rogue stealth have risk and consequence for using it,
Arena net thief stealth have no risk and no consequence for using it.

Wow rogue stealth have strict consequence if make mistake,
Arena net thief stealth have no consequence at all for make mistake: they reset every time when make any mistake.

Last:

Wow rogue is fun because you learn because of challenge,
Arena net thief is not fun because you do not learn anything at all: all you do is repeat same thing, over and over again, which is not challenge.

Wow rogue also learn when to use other skill to be effective more: their skill is time with coold own.
Arena net thief do not learn anything when to use other skill to be effective, because they do not have cool down and that when they use a skill, they always have other skill ready to use again and again.

In conclusion, arena net thief do no offer any option but to repeat the same thing over and over again and not offer any challenge for thief player.

Where is fun to only repeat same thing over and over again?
Where is fun to use same thing over and over again?

I understand why Margrave feel thief is unfinished because that is not what a rogue class should be. If want be a rogue class, be honest instead of using rogue as excuse!!

(I list some but there is more)

Go back to WoW, please. You seem to have a better grasp of things there than here.

What content are you playing? In PvP there’s a ton of build variation with different playstyles. For example, S/D is more about evasion while D/P is more about stealth. In PvE there’s one “best” way to do dungeons (Zerker D/D SB with a S/P in your pocket for trash) but open world there’s plenty of ways to play.

Maybe you just have to stop thinking of it as a perma-stealth class like WoW’s rogue is, because Thief is completely different in just about every way.

DarkSyze.8627:

Arena net thief stealth have no consequence at all for make mistake: they reset every time when make any mistake.

I highly disagree with that and im not a primary thief player, you can only endlessly reset in WvW and thats a game mode in which almost any class has unfair advantages in one way or another.

In tPvP a rogue cannot endlesly reset and if he does he makes the enemy team win because reseting means not capturing points. You also forget that D/D elementalists and condi engis can reset way better than rogues. They dont even have a downtime like a thief without initative because they can circle through their bazillion skills. Theirs always a def or burst skill off cooldown.

- Its a common misconception that the thief is the master of reseting in tPvP.

- Stealth means nothing when you fight a class with good aoe in the hands of a decent player

- A complete reset is worse than dying for a thief in tPvP. He needs to wait and the enemy team knows his location. When he dies the enemy team has no info on his position and is forced to be prepared to get jumped at any time.

Dude….roll theif….win. There are so many cheese builds for this class it is pathetic.

mako.2431:

Dude….roll theif….win. There are so many cheese builds for this class it is pathetic.

There’s only one cheese build that’s viable for the thief you crap.

Margrave.2071:

I love the rogue class in most mmorpgs. My first max level character in WoW was a rogue. It pains me to say that the GW2 Thief is very much NOT a rogue.

This class isn’t as much fun to me as the others to me. This is the last class I need to get to 80 before the expansion launch, and it feels so limited. All the other classes feel like they a bunch of options to pick from. This one does not. He dies rather easily also. It made sense for the elementalist to be squishy, but the thief doesn’t feel like he has the damage to back up his level of squishy. He also feels rather limited in weapon selection.

Am I doing something wrong? Can anyone tell me how to make this class as fun as a traditional rogue?

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate the class. I hated leveling the engineer, but the thief is just ‘meh’. It feels unfinished, and like an afterthought. It feels to me as if little to no work went into the class design at all.

Thieves have great use for a large variety of weapons, skills and traits. Thief is one of the few professions that not only encourages Berserker gear stats (like the others) but doesn’t even get much from using defensive stats. More about that later

The easiest general leveling option in PVE is D/P, you have access to loads of blinds, basically most mobs will be perma blind making your job of killing them a breeze. You need to learn when to use Shadow Shot and when to use Black Powder. SS is single target, bp is aoe for multiple mobs. With careful initiative management PVE becomes easy mode, although a bit slow.

Other option for leveling is S/P using Signet of Malice and Pistol Whip. Once again, you can survive most encounters by having a careful management of Initiative and using PW to keep your health up. This combination is amazing when fighting multiple mobs at the same time, that’s when PW shines the most, you can stay at max health easily.

D/D is the best damaging option, with a careful rotation you can deal superb amounts of damage, usually killing normal mobs in one rotation (even kittenes in SW). D/D requires more dodging and some active play from the player, Thieves get +12% critical chance hitting from the side while health is >90%, so CnD → move to the side → BS → Double Strike → Lotus Strike → repeat

For initiative management you have traits and skills. Trait to regain initiave when entering stealth is excellent for D/D thieves to recover initiative. You can also use a trait that makes signets restore initiative, a signet that offers higher regen and others

To fight conditions, a Sword provides on-demand condi cleanse, or if using D/D you can get on-demand condi cleanse with Cloak and Dagger (remove a condition when entering stealth).

For extra dodges, Thieves have the excellent Feline Grace minor trait which gives you back some of the endurance used. Making those dodge-intensive encounters easier to manage.

Shortbows are great to attack and tag multiple mobs in events, it’s the Thieve’s best ranged option and it’s excellent for moving around quickly from event to event.

As you can see there are loads of options for Thieves and their weapons selection is great. All weapons, maybe other than mainhand pistol (or P/P and P/D) and MAYBE S/D, have great uses in PVE. Shortbow for moving around, aoe tagging, spreading conditions, Pistol offhand for excellent blind fields, Dagger offhand for on-demand condi removal and massive damage boost (remember to move), Dagger mainhand for excellent damage and endurance regeneration, Sword for on-demand condi-cleanse and excellent cleave damage. So all weapon types have their great use, however some combinations aren’t as good.

With a dual S/D build (2 swords, 2 daggers) I managed to reach 11 dodges in a row. That’s more than enough any player would ever need in any game mode. But although S/D has great dodge potential, removing boons isn’t so useful in PVE, it’s more of a PVP thing.

P/D is excellent for condition builds and roaming in WvW, however it has limited use in PVE, it’s too condi focused. P/P is better in PVE but the other weapon sets outperform it in almost any situation.