Guild Wars 2

Just wanted to pick the Thief subforum’s brains on how to counter those pesky P/D builds. I run a D/P build myself:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoa8YlYmiOHfy9E+5ExWhdy9wpGtpdPwqV1KA

Gear-wise, I use a mix of zerker and knights armour with ruby orbs for 13,805 HP (usually 14,500 after world buffs), 2100 power, 45% crit rate, 76% crit damage, and 2616 armour. I use hardened sharpening stones and the 80% dodge food (because I am poor lol).

I run most fights in D/P because it’s got a nice burst and an excellent interrupt with Pistol 4. I don’t use S/D much unless I’m fighting a tankier class like the guardian or necro where bursting isn’t as effective as harassing them.

That being said, I’ve always found P/D builds especially hard to play against since they can kite me from far away, and CnD off me once I close the gap. I’d like some advice on how to deal with such thieves as I just run away currently (not worth the headache to fight), but it always leaves a sour taste behind.

If possible, a change in my play-style would be most welcome since I am poor and re-gearing is expensive :P

Dodge/evade his CnD, avoid caltrops and burst him down after he waists his init on CnD. If he manages to land one, use stealth yourself to avoid heavy dmg + 5 stacks of bleeds.

Works well for me. I’m a d/d SB thief (0/30/30/10/0)

The counter to thieves in wvw is to go run dungeons. There is no counter

Thedenofsin.7340:

The counter to thieves in wvw is to go run dungeons. There is no counter

wvwvw is not pve if you are fighting players like you do in instances versus NPC’s you will die to thieves and all other profession, if instead of learning how to counter them you run off to pve you will never learn.
Just sain

D/P and S/D is already the counter build against P/D.

D/P you can stay or go in stealth at will. P/D can’t really attack much if they can’t CnD you. You can also blind them when they attempt to CnD.

S/D or S/P has can immobilize a P/D preventing them from CnD.

a P/D that misses their CnD is a huge penalty to their ability to damage you and initiative loss. Two misses and they likely toast.

S/D destroys them with ease. The most important thing is to make sure you dodge the CnD. Doing that in itself will kill every single thief who relies on cloak and dagger, at least what I’ve found.

By default these builds are sensitive to ranged controls. Besides, I hardly see why you don’t have the edge against them, D/P provides an independant source of stealth, they need to CnD something in order to get on par with your stealth which often means that you’re at advantage.

I’ve noticed that shortbow is good counter since you can avoid sneak attack with your 3 and harras them by dropping clusters in front of you.
However on my tanky build 0/30/30/10/0, i lack the burst to finish them . Had few attempts with thieves guide +shortbow imobilize 2 heartseekers then steal +backstab, but with this combo i take only the mediocre ones. Against good ones it usualy ends as a draw after 15-20 minutes, since they cannot kill me neither.
Sword is good counter against P/D since infiltration strike allow you to perma harras and constant condition removal
.

d/p with stealth removal immue to condi

A p/d thief doesn’t need to CnD. He can have 6 forms of stealth without ever doing it. Pre-loaded stealth from steal, 2 second stealth from steal, fighting a thief gives another stealth with follow-up stealth, heal stealth, blindness dust, and shadow refuge.

But like Brass said, you got condition removal, you take a lot of their damage away. However, it is still six sneak attacks…the direct damage will hurt, esp if they are traited for 100% crit on hidden and have all carrion gear. Also, there will be times when those bleeds do tick.

kirito.4138:

S/D or S/P has can immobilize a P/D preventing them from CnD.

Many people swear by S/D but the setup just feels clunky to me. The auto attack hits harder but feels slower, and Sword 2 immobilize is only 1 second. I’m actually not a fan of the skill because it becomes useless for 12 seconds when it’s on Shadow Return mode (or whatever it’s called). Use it once, and I’m out of gap closers until the weapon swap cooldown is up.

Thanks for the input so far. Perhaps it’s just an experience issue, since I don’t meet all too many P/D thieves, and the ones I do meet are really annoying to fight (more so than D/D).

Thedenofsin.7340:

The counter to thieves in wvw is to go run dungeons. There is no counter

wisest message in this thread.

Knowing when to dodge CnD is a great asset, but if the P/D is truly worth his salt, he’d be CnDing off critters and various mobs.

Up until ANet made a blunder with condition duration runes six days ago I ran P/D almost exclusively for WvW. D/P Thieves would always either die or stealth away from the fight.

I’ve been running a 0/10/30/30/0 D/P build for the past five days, but I haven’t come across a single P/D Thief to offer any advice from the D/P perspective.

Columba.9730:

Thedenofsin.7340:

The counter to thieves in wvw is to go run dungeons. There is no counter

wisest message in this thread.

Israphel Asmodians?

Something that you can do right off the bat is make sure to have traits blind on stealth, and remove conditions while in stealth activated. The blinds will make it much harder for the opponent to land C&D, and the constant condition removal will nullify most of their damage.

Although after saying that, I’ve run a P/D build for quite some time and while fighting D/P thieves is quite tiresome, I can’t recall ever losing to one. The tip above will help tremendously in killing 90% of P/D thieves but skilled ones will be able to out last you.

They can do this by:
C&D off surrounding NPC’s.
Predicting your location in stealth and either dodging the BS or C&D’ing off you.
Using devourer’s venom for CC to get an easy C&D.
Applying other conditions such as weakness to lower your dps, as well as not allowing you to remove bleeds as easily.
Positioning and timing from stealth to ensure the sneak attack lands all 5 hits.

Half the battle is knowing your enemy and hopefully these tips will help you!

You can also counter P/D with GC D/D. P/D thieves are still squishy and hitting a P/D thief with a D/D burst can kill them or cause them to retreat as quickly as possible.

Doomdesire.9365:

S/D destroys them with ease. The most important thing is to make sure you dodge the CnD. Doing that in itself will kill every single thief who relies on cloak and dagger, at least what I’ve found.

Nice sig. I challege you to a 1v1 duel! (assuming you’re a thief).

I haven’t had any problem with D/P thief’s on my Thief (D/D), but I obviously must of not faced any good ones.

Nex.2450:

Something that you can do right off the bat is make sure to have traits blind on stealth, and remove conditions while in stealth activated. The blinds will make it much harder for the opponent to land C&D, and the constant condition removal will nullify most of their damage.

…

They can do this by:
C&D off surrounding NPC’s.

With the build I linked above, I’d have to sacrifice one of the following for blind on stealth: initiative gain on stealth or regen in stealth traits. Seeing as how black powder + HS burns a lot of initiative, would you recommend ditching the regen?

The second part usually isn’t an issue. I lead the fight away from areas with mobs when fighting thieves (learned from all the D/D ones I fought). I’d like to remove the terrain advantage that they have when I can

I will learn to dodge that CnD. You’d think that for something with such a long animation it’d be easier to notice…

kenshinakh.3672:

You can also counter P/D with GC D/D. P/D thieves are still squishy and hitting a P/D thief with a D/D burst can kill them or cause them to retreat as quickly as possible.

A friend of mine plays a P/D condition thief as part of a havoc squad. He’s told me he has 2600 toughness and 16,000 HP. I don’t believe P/D’s are built squishy.

Ljiona.9142:

A p/d thief doesn’t need to CnD. He can have 6 forms of stealth without ever doing it. Pre-loaded stealth from steal, 2 second stealth from steal, fighting a thief gives another stealth with follow-up stealth, heal stealth, blindness dust, and shadow refuge.

But like Brass said, you got condition removal, you take a lot of their damage away. However, it is still six sneak attacks…the direct damage will hurt, esp if they are traited for 100% crit on hidden and have all carrion gear. Also, there will be times when those bleeds do tick.

Ok so … Good d/p thief will not use stealth on steal trait. No d/p condi thief will use hidden killer ( it would not make sneak attack crit, only first shot from 5), neither any of that tree traits. Blindness dust ?

Yams.6082:

Nex.2450:

Something that you can do right off the bat is make sure to have traits blind on stealth, and remove conditions while in stealth activated. The blinds will make it much harder for the opponent to land C&D, and the constant condition removal will nullify most of their damage.

…

They can do this by:
C&D off surrounding NPC’s.

With the build I linked above, I’d have to sacrifice one of the following for blind on stealth: initiative gain on stealth or regen in stealth traits. Seeing as how black powder + HS burns a lot of initiative, would you recommend ditching the regen?

The second part usually isn’t an issue. I lead the fight away from areas with mobs when fighting thieves (learned from all the D/D ones I fought). I’d like to remove the terrain advantage that they have when I can

I will learn to dodge that CnD. You’d think that for something with such a long animation it’d be easier to notice…

kenshinakh.3672:

You can also counter P/D with GC D/D. P/D thieves are still squishy and hitting a P/D thief with a D/D burst can kill them or cause them to retreat as quickly as possible.

A friend of mine plays a P/D condition thief as part of a havoc squad. He’s told me he has 2600 toughness and 16,000 HP. I don’t believe P/D’s are built squishy.

2600 toughness and 16,000 H kitten quishy. You need 20K P and 3200 toughness to survive a pure glass cannon D/D thief (assuming you eat all of the damage from Steal/CnD/BS).

On a 1900 armor lvl 80 target, my highest crit was 14.5K BS, 8K steal and 8 CnD.

Just Black Powder his Cloak and Dagger. If he can’t go into stealth, he can’t use Sneak Attack for 5 free stacks of bleed.

Yams the best counter to CnD is speed. HS or Steal to him when he flashes visible (I run full glass cannon D/D spec and hit these guys really hard). It’s not in their best interest to trade blows with a spec like that. You can also use your shortbow if you know where he is (shadow refuge), clusterbomb hits everyone hard.

Thanks for the advice all! I think I will spend my time tonight looking for enemy thieves to practise my CnD dodging. Here’s hoping it won’t end up being too expensive