Guild Wars 2

I’ve been playing Thief a fair amount in sPvP and in non-dungeon PvE, and I’ve found that the Shortbow weapon is really not to my liking – I usually sub it out for P/P instead.

However, what I’ve been reading on builds for the Thief in WvWvW and Dungeons seems to indicate that the Shortbow is an absolute must-have. I can understand some of the reasons why – after all, the Shortbow does bring the Thief’s only AoE, the Thief’s only 1200 range attack, a poison field, a free shadowstep, and an on-demand blast-finisher. But I’ve found that in all of the builds I’ve made in which I try to use it, it doesn’t do me much good beyond the utility of the poison field and the shadowstep. At least for me, I have found that the autoattack does very little damage, and that the flight time on Cluster Bomb makes it really difficult to hit with at the range I typically use it. For whatever reason, I have such a hard time using the Shortbow effectively that I seem to gain both damage and survivability when I substitute it out for P/P.

What I’m wondering about is whether I can keep playing my Thief Shortbow-free, or whether I’m going to need to take it and learn to deal with it, particularly in dungeons and WvWvW. Again, everything I’ve read points to the Shortbow as being a necessity. Will I drag down my party in dungeons if I don’t take a Shortbow? How about in WvWvW? If the answer is “No,” are there any tried-and-true Shortbow-less builds out there? If the answer is “Yes,” what should I be doing and how should I be building in order to make Shortbow more effective?

Thanks.

I try not to use shortbow due to not particularly liking it but I do use it for WvWvW for the increased mobility (Infiltrator’s Arrow) and the ability to hit on top of walls (Choking Gas for players, Cluster Bomb for inanimate objects)

For dungeons, I guess it would be quite necessary (I’ve not really got to doing them on my Thief…) if only in higher fractals when going into melee would be dangerous, since the only other AoE a Thief has access to is Death Blossom spam (Which can be an okay build, but pretty much relies on DB for most of it’s damage) or S/X using Auto-Attack

As far as maxing out damage with Shortbow, the trick is to get close and spam Cluster Bomb, which at a short range has very little travel time (Can also be detonated mid air for up to 3 stacks of bleed over the area and less travel time) I’m not sure if there needs to be a specific build for it though (I play as DD/PD occasionally swapping to SD/PP)

But if you can stand in melee range then it’s possible to go something like S/P + P/P (Using P/P for bosses that it’s dangerous to be in melee with) and completely ignore Shortbows for PvE.

WvWvW, it may be necessary to use a SB when attacking/defending things, unless it’s possible to get around and picking off some stragglers (Which Thieves tend to do better at with their limited range/AoE and decent burst)

In higher level Fractals and other dungeons with dense enemy populations, you want to invest in 15 Deadly Arts for Weakness on Poison, and put down Choking Gas over as many mobs as possible. You wouldn’t believe the difference that mass Weakness has on big fights. Those glancing hits add up.

p/p is appealing I know, but you just have to keep in mind the opportunity cost.
1) Bow means aoe might helping your team to stack up to 25might on those fire fields (warrior longbow / elementalist).
2)The aoe weakness that lasts very long.
3) Kite/evade on demand #3
4) you’re stunned without stun removal at hand ? #5 away to keep you alive while stun wears out.

p/p feels good, feels easy, yea it’s great seeing it proc omnom ghost like a mofo but yea, what do you do aside from that?

I try to get rid of sb sometimes and see if I can benefit from another weapon set. I always end up back to my SB. Especially in WvWvW.

I’m not useful manning seige as I dont have enough damage mitigation as a thief. Pistol range isn’t the greatest. I always get obstructed whenever I’m defending/attacking. So that leaves me with either attacking the gate with my s/d or putting up choking gas on the wall (way more beneficial in my opinion).

Is a must have? No. When I run small groups I never use it for mobility (unless Im running away from a zerg) as I can already out run most of my teammates by auto running.

I’ve only done AC and TA. I’ve found the SB extremely useful in TA. AC I could go without it. But I doubt I’d use any other weapon set more often then I would the SB.

In dungeons, especially fotm higher levels, I find ranged much better. So I run pistol/pistol and shortbow. in fact in fotm the only time I use daggers is the jade maw fractal.

Single target P/P is really nice. But just plain autoattacks with shortbow against more than one is about 3-5k damage per shot, sometimes more depending on might stacks. I’m running 0 30 30 10 0 for traits and pretty glassy armor.

As for hang time on cluster bomb, try shooting at your feet while on the move once. You can just keep moving and CB when you’re at a location with a decent amount of mobs and the total AOE damage output is quite good.

As for world vs world, I find shortbow only useful bombing people up on walls, or from walls … and if you’re trying to get your kill count up by tagging enemies in zerg vs zerg. Other than that, shortbow just doesn’t cut it for my taste.

Hmm, let’s see.

Akimbo Pistols offer: Good Single Target Damage, Black Powder Combo field for Blinds.

Shortbow offers: Massive AoE damage, Blast Combo finishers on impact, AoE Poison/Weakness, Auto-Attack hitting up to 3 targets at range, Extra Dodges, Infiltrator’s Arrow for escaping roots and enhanced mobility.

I for the life of me cannot comprehend why anyone would rather wield 2 Pistols over a Shortbow.

The Shortbow is the only universally useful Thief weapon set. Most others are bound to specific builds.

95% of the time the Shortbow will be the better weapon compared to Akimbo Pistols. The last 5% are times where there is really nothing aside from single-target damage to be done (CoF Path 2 final for example).

I run around with all Thief weapon sets available but I can’t recall the last time I used Dual Pistols.

No matter what your build focuses on you can make use of the short bow, in that sense it’s a jack of all trades while P/X has range it’s single target and doesn’t have as much utility or versatility as the SB.

In the end, because of it’s AoE and utility the SB is pretty much a required weapon outside of sPvP. (By required I mean there is little to no reason to NOT have a SB equipped, which is something ANet should probably fix)

The short bow is a great weapon, both for it’s combo fields, combo finishers, damage and utility. But you don’t need to use it. I rarely use it as it’s not even close to the dps and bleed stacks my pistol can give me.

But if there is one thing that I’ve learnt over the months of doing dungeons with all kinds of builds and groups, that would be that glass cannon thieves running close range (D/D) are close to useless in dungeons. Many of the instances have hard hitting bosses or other stuff dealing massive damage. So if you’re playing close combat with almost no survivability, then the short bow is required. In WvW the short bow is a must-have for me. It’s utilities and mobility is priceless there.

You should just try to experiment a bit doing dungeons without the short bow. The point is you having fun with others. So do your best and find what suits you

In WvW – The mobility alone makes SB better than P/P for a ranged weapon set.
(Like using Inf. Arrow to escape Immob Nukes, etc.)

But aside from WvW I would hardly say it’s required, it’s more of a playstyle preferrence.

However, as most testimony would suggest it can end up being a wasted slot in Fractals, where P/P specifically outshines most every other set available to the Thief. Access to a Blast Finisher aside, if you’re built for burst damage, and you’re running Fractals, you are literally gimping yourself (and thereby the overall intent of building for burst as well) by slotting SB over P/P, IMO.

I use my shortbow for all fractals as it’s by far the best range damage weapon, especially when there’s so kitten many mobs around

It also suits my venom sharing build, as I’ll still be able to hit mobs, but also run to other players to share the buffs.

i have never taken my shortbow off my secondary weapon set, no matter in fractal or wvw. cluster bomb is the cheapest blast finisher in the whole game, and its spammable! stand in healing spring + 6 cluster bomb == 8000 aoe healing. longest range weapon for thieves, very useful in many fractals where if u stay ranged u could avoid lots of agony attacks.

What are you going to put in your second set if not a Shortbow? You don’t need two melee sets, and it’s clearly better than P/P as a general purpose secondary swap. I can’t remember the last time I took Shortbow out of my secondary weapon slot.

Which is a shame, because I hate how slow and awkward it feels to play it. I’m really hoping for enough Pistol buffs that I can drop it for P/P as a general purpose set.

Anyway, as to the original point – you’re not being ineffective using the Shortbow, you just feel ineffective. It’s an annoying part of the weapon, it’s slow and awkward and feels like crap even when you’re using it correctly. All you’re really going to be doing is lobbing the field / cluster bomb as they become available and spamming the auto-attack in between. Yes, it feels like driving a minivan, but it is in fact the most effective thing you could be doing from range.

Auesis.7301:

In higher level Fractals and other dungeons with dense enemy populations, you want to invest in 15 Deadly Arts for Weakness on Poison, and put down Choking Gas over as many mobs as possible. You wouldn’t believe the difference that mass Weakness has on big fights. Those glancing hits add up.

Great for freaking out that incoming enemy zerg too…