Guild Wars 2

To all QQ about the thief burst damage,just look at the video and we can comment:

Mind that this is SPvP…..
And yes opponent was maybe afk but i don’t see any difference if he wasn’t.

Typical glass cannon ele blowing all his utilities to kill one thief. Sounds familiar…

All under 3 seconds. No chance to react! Nerf them!!

Huh, no points in arcane on that ele at all.

But yea, they can do that once every 45 seconds …

This is the problem, people don’t seem to realize that the thief isn’t the only class capable of high end glass cannon burst damage.

I know warriors have their bulls charge + frenzy + 100b combo as well as some rifle burst build I saw a while back (someone said it was a bug or something, not sure though)

And now this.

Oliin.9581:

Huh, no points in arcane on that ele at all.

But yea, they can do that once every 45 seconds …

45 seconds you say? say….. doesn’t steal and basilisk venom finish it’s cooldown at that exact same speed? wow, what are the odds?

Sithaco.4673:

This is the problem, people don’t seem to realize that the thief isn’t the only class capable of high end glass cannon burst damage.

I know warriors have their bulls charge + frenzy + 100b combo as well as some rifle burst build I saw a while back (someone said it was a bug or something, not sure though)

And now this.

The killshot damage was partially caused by a bug, but nonetheless, we’re still seeing people being one-shotted by it after they fixed it.

Rottaran Owain.6789:

Sithaco.4673:

This is the problem, people don’t seem to realize that the thief isn’t the only class capable of high end glass cannon burst damage.

I know warriors have their bulls charge + frenzy + 100b combo as well as some rifle burst build I saw a while back (someone said it was a bug or something, not sure though)

And now this.

The killshot damage was partially caused by a bug, but nonetheless, we’re still seeing people being one-shotted by it after they fixed it.

against a glass cannon it is a guaranteed instakill if landed – 10-11k seems to be typical damage (no might/vuln stacking) vs exotic medium armor + 300 toughness from traits.

You know what the real problem with these builds that people aren’t properly explaining. It isn’t the damage it causes, because that is countered by the low health/armor the glass cannon has. It is the fact that some of these builds are nearly impossible to counter.

Most crying about Theives is in WvW and there the Thief ist a beast in the right hands.

Sithaco.4673:

You know what the real problem with these builds that people aren’t properly explaining. It isn’t the damage it causes, because that is countered by the low health/armor the glass cannon has. It is the fact that some of these builds are nearly impossible to counter.

The real problem is that the most people don’t want such burst builds to exist in a first place.Counterable or not.They just want it to be erased,so they could safely remove the stunbreakers to free a UI spot for the next offensive skill/signet.

ZLE.8293:

Sithaco.4673:

You know what the real problem with these builds that people aren’t properly explaining. It isn’t the damage it causes, because that is countered by the low health/armor the glass cannon has. It is the fact that some of these builds are nearly impossible to counter.

The real problem is that the most people don’t want such burst builds to exist in a first place.Counterable or not.They just want it to be erased,so they could safely remove the stunbreakers to free a UI spot for the next offensive skill/signet.

Exactly, making the game extremely boring.

Stiv.1820:

Exactly, making the game extremely boring.

Why, do you think that atm the metagame is enjoyable with all these bunker/burst build?

It seems to me that the conquest game type is pushing all the players to the extremes, bunkers on one side, and bursters on the other, with nothing really useful in the middle.

And this, to me, sounds really boring, not the contrary.

ZLE.8293:

And yes opponent was maybe afk but i don’t see any difference if he wasn’t.

Totally unrealistic video. Ele damage is about 10% of that under normal conditions.

a) player has to be above 90% health. Unrealistic.
b) target has to be below 25% health. Overkill.
c) target has to be afk to not dodge/use a stunbreaker. Unrealistic.
d) player uses 2 utilities and all long cooldown weapon skills. Free kill afterwards.

So stop comparing this video to thieves. Thieves do this amount of damage all the time without any significant cooldown inbetween AND they can escape unharmed afterwards because of stealth.

Aether McLoud.1975:

So stop comparing this video to thieves. Thieves do this amount of damage all the time without any significant cooldown inbetween AND they can escape unharmed afterwards because of stealth.

Do you bother to prove this statement? I would like to know how to do this, because I´m playing Thief actually :-)

Aether McLoud.1975:

ZLE.8293:

And yes opponent was maybe afk but i don’t see any difference if he wasn’t.

Totally unrealistic video. Ele damage is about 10% of that under normal conditions.

a) player has to be above 90% health. Unrealistic.
b) target has to be below 25% health. Overkill.
c) target has to be afk to not dodge/use a stunbreaker. Unrealistic.
d) player uses 2 utilities and all long cooldown weapon skills. Free kill afterwards.

So stop comparing this video to thieves. Thieves do this amount of damage all the time without any significant cooldown inbetween AND they can escape unharmed afterwards because of stealth.

Dude pls…..let’s see concerning Backstab what we have:

a) player has to be above 90% health. Unrealistic.
b)Target has to be <50% health.Overkill.
c) target has to be afk to not dodge/use a stunbreaker. Unrealistic.
d) player uses 2 utilities and all long cooldown weapon skills? Free kill afterwards?
Don’t you have 3 more attunements?

Anyways,should i quote the usual rants by memory:

“Noone at any time should make that much damage for such small time”
“That much damage from 1 skill is OP”

Ring a bell?Sound familiar?

I play a thief too so whats your point?

Aether McLoud.1975:

I play a thief too so whats your point?

My point is that if you´re really playing Thief, you would know that you´re lying in the previous post…. (Steal CD 45 secs, basilisk venom 45 secs, assasin´s signet another 45secs) which all have bigger CD than Elementalists updraft (40 secs). So where is those abilities without CD you´ve been mentioning?

You don’t need those cooldowns to backstab.

Also it would do you well not to call me a liar.

Galandil.9641:

Stiv.1820:

Exactly, making the game extremely boring.

Why, do you think that atm the metagame is enjoyable with all these bunker/burst build?

It seems to me that the conquest game type is pushing all the players to the extremes, bunkers on one side, and bursters on the other, with nothing really useful in the middle.

And this, to me, sounds really boring, not the contrary.

I think it’s exactly as you say, the conquest game type being the only one that’s the problem for sPvP. When holding a point is the main objective bunkers are going to show up. If anything burst is not on par with bunkers atm or we need more viable builds with buff sheering.

I don’t think removing powerful CC+burst is the answer though. The need for reaction based stun breakers is a big part of a skill based game. The people who can’t do it or refuse to slot them die and QQ. Just look at WvW players.

Aether McLoud.1975:

I play a thief too so whats your point?

PLEASE add me as your friend.I will add you too,so we can play together and hopefully clarify how much you understand thief.I promise i will record everything,so you will be able to prove your point…

STRanger.5120:

Aether McLoud.1975:

So stop comparing this video to thieves. Thieves do this amount of damage all the time without any significant cooldown inbetween AND they can escape unharmed afterwards because of stealth.

Do you bother to prove this statement? I would like to know how to do this, because I´m playing Thief actually :-)

Don’t need to prove anything…you can see ele coming from a mile away unlike a thief even if he uses lightning flash and again to die to that combo means you’re a glass cannon.

If the ele does kill you before you can react, I believe that’s well deserved, after all : mesmer shatter- backstab thieves- 100b warriors can all one-shot you if they catch you off-guard and you’re a glass cannon

Stop the whining…..

Not a single ele specs GC in tourney, yet all thieves do. That’s all the proof you need.

Aether McLoud.1975:

You don’t need those cooldowns to backstab.

If you play PvE, you´re right, if you play against AFK players, you´re right. If you play regular PvP against ppl who know how to play it, you have no chance…. even with those cooldowns I named… Deal with it, thief is counterable as easy as the elementalist in the video, period.

Aether McLoud.1975:

Not a single ele specs GC in tourney, yet all thieves do. That’s all the proof you need.

You´ve just made my day, man. Thanks for that

because thieves have two viable tournament builds and not all teams want a condition thief, that leaves them with one build.

ele has a staff, S/D and D/D builds that are viable in tpvp

Educate yourselfs please.

ZLE.8293:

To all QQ about the thief burst damage,just look at the video and we can comment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BDQGDELcUk

Mind that this is SPvP…..
And yes opponent was maybe afk but i don’t see any difference if he wasn’t.

If you read the original thread for this video, the OP mentioned this is a joke build since he just stacked damage traits. An ele can burst hard, but promptly dies. A thief has great burst but escapes if things get messy. Thieves are fine the way they are since that’s their playstyle, but it is in no way comparible to an ele since speccing for burst is suicide, with an occasional kill on an unaware glass cannon.

Edit: by damage traits, they’re extremely situational as ppl above mentioned: 10% damage when health is above 90%, 25% damage when enemy ‘s health below 25%, %10 damage when attuned to fire, etc. You’d have to have a perfect scenario kill to get all the damage buffs, which in the meantine takes all the ele’s valuable trait slots.

STRanger.5120:

Aether McLoud.1975:

Not a single ele specs GC in tourney, yet all thieves do. That’s all the proof you need.

You´ve just made my day, man. Thanks for that

Unless you can prove otherwise, I can say with no problems that glass cannon eles in tPvP don’t exist, not literally because you still meet the odd guild team which like to babysit the ele but 8 teams out of 10 will use of course a d/d thief or 100b warrior.

Those 8 teams out of 10 will use at most a support staff ele or support s/d but never a glass cannon ele.

R40-champion magus-10QP…I dare you to go and prove otherwise

Kousetsu.1627:

because thieves have two viable tournament builds and not all teams want a condition thief, that leaves them with one build.

ele has a staff, S/D and D/D builds that are viable in tpvp

Educate yourselfs please.

They all play support or babysitted glass cannon, one which is always in company of an engy or guardian.
Condition thief are well sought after, so don’t come telling people that thiefs are cornered to backstab build

Arheundel.6451:

STRanger.5120:

Aether McLoud.1975:

Not a single ele specs GC in tourney, yet all thieves do. That’s all the proof you need.

You´ve just made my day, man. Thanks for that

Unless you can prove otherwise, I can say with no problems that glass cannon eles in tPvP don’t exist, not literally because you still meet the odd guild team which like to babysit the ele but 8 teams out of 10 will use of course a d/d thief or 100b warrior.

Those 8 teams out of 10 will use at most a support staff ele or support s/d but never a glass cannon ele.

R40-champion magus-10QP…I dare you to go and prove otherwise

Already explained by Kousetsu.1627 two posts up.
Also if you´re complaining about Thief from the tPvP perspective, there is something wrong with you, because on this play-level, Thief is balanced, at least from the Anet point of view.
All those who complain agains Thief are for 90% WvW “players” and the rest are sPvP who didn´t discovered counter yet, that´s all…

So in other words….
A guy decides to check ELE burst build(he probably have zero experience with it since he is testing it).He kills an opponent within 2 seconds.It’s OK thou.
Another guy decides to check Backstab Burst build(he probably have zero experience with it since he is testing it).He kills an opponent within 2 seconds.It’s not OK,must be nerfed…

ZLE, You pretty much ignored everyone here who is trying to help you learn. If you continue to see things in black and white, we will be seeing a lot more crying from you. Read the above posts again.

Cirax.9231:

ZLE, You pretty much ignored everyone here who is trying to help you learn. If you continue to see things in black and white, we will be seeing a lot more crying from you. Read the above posts again.

I red your posts about the situational traits e.t.c.Did you read mine?
Doesn’t a thief with scholar runes needs to be >90% health?Or to be at the back?
And the target to be less than 50%hp for certain traits to apply bonus?Or to be successfully applied condition for 10% bonus?Or his venom to not be blocked?
Or not to be auto-feared on stun?Can’t you see that the same guys made all classes.
Or you see what is convinient to your eyes only….
And btw i don’t cry,i defend my class against whiners.I don’t care about Backstab(i never use it),i care about the FOTM using of thieves to justify anyone’s inability to play.

Arheundel.6451:

Kousetsu.1627:

because thieves have two viable tournament builds and not all teams want a condition thief, that leaves them with one build.

ele has a staff, S/D and D/D builds that are viable in tpvp

Educate yourselfs please.

They all play support or babysitted glass cannon, one which is always in company of an engy or guardian.
Condition thief are well sought after, so don’t come telling people that thiefs are cornered to backstab build

Please tell me what server you are on, because on FS its pretty much burst thief or GTFO

ZLE.8293:

I red your posts about the situational traits e.t.c.Did you read mine?
Doesn’t a thief with scholar runes needs to be >90% health?Or to be at the back?
And the target to be less than 50%hp for certain traits to apply bonus?Or to be successfully applied condition focus?Or his venom to not be blocked?
Or not to be auto-feared on stun?Can’t you see that the same guys made all classes.
Or you see what is convinient to your eyes only….
And btw i don’t cry,i defend my class against whiners.I don’t care about Backstab(i never use it),i care about the FOTM using of thieves to justify anyone’s inability to play.

Yes, I did read your point. I don’t think thieves should be nerfed because they’re fine the way they are, but eles are are no way in a better situation with burst. I agree too many ppl complain about thieves without proper justification, but the video you linked isn’t a good comparison as that ele build is not realistically viable.

ZLE.8293:

To all QQ about the thief burst damage,just look at the video and we can comment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BDQGDELcUk

Mind that this is SPvP…..
And yes opponent was maybe afk but i don’t see any difference if he wasn’t.

Guess what? YOU CAN SEE THE ELEMENTALIST COMING!!! Also, if he doesn’t kill you can’t vanish and try again and then vanish and try again

Oliin.9581:

Huh, no points in arcane on that ele at all.

But yea, they can do that once every 45 seconds …

Okay, check this video out

That burst had two components. The first part was 12k damage, and that can be done every 12s. The second part was the 9k hit, and that can be done every 36s. Additionally, he had other huge-hitting burst skills (arcane) that he could use, which would hit for well over 4k each. Arcane skills don’t interrupt your current cast and can be cast while you’re using other skills. He also would do bucketloads of damage with Drake’s Breath or even the fire autoattack, to finish off the people who survive the 12k hit.

Not only could he pull off 12k+ burst every 12s, that burst is a 5-target AoE. He could zoom into a group of 3 people and nearly kill them in seconds, and then absolutely wreck them if Fire Grab was available. Our burst is single-target.

Compare this to our burst. We can pull off similar single-target numbers with CnD -> BS -> HS. Our burst can be used every 5s. To do our massive insta-kill burst combo, we require 36s cooldowns (steal, sigil, basilisk venom). This allows us to match his burst with Fire Grab, but we stun the enemy while doing it and pull off the burst in a mere second.

One thing people love to point out about us is that we can stealth to run away if the burst fails. That’s true, but a glass cannon D/D elementalist can swap into water for self-healing, earth for control, or air for Ride the Lightning (crazy powerful escape). They also get mist form and other cantrips. We both have good escape ability while glass cannon spec.

TL;DR: Thieves have two bursts. We do good single-target without cooldowns, and can pull it off every 5s. Elementalists can do similar burst every 12s, but it’s AoE. We can also use 36s-45s cooldowns to make our burst higher, nearly instant, and stun the enemy while doing it. Elementalists can use similar skill slot investment and cooldowns to do equivalent levels of burst, but AoE. Thieves get stealth while glass-cannon, elementalists get movement skills and powerful self-healing.

I just did what 99% of the complainers do:post a video with big numbers,cut from the actual gameplay and then drawing conclusion from it. You maybe feel it doesn’t go that way?That it isn’t right?Welcome to the club m8.Now you can feel a little bit of what we feel all the time…

ZLE.8293:

I just did what 99% of the complainers do:post a video with big numbers,cut from the actual gameplay and then drawing conclusion from it. You maybe feel it doesn’t go that way?That it isn’t right?Welcome to the club m8.Now you can feel a little bit of what we feel all the time…

I play both ele and thief. Thief GC is extremely viable, ele is not at all. All your ranting doesn’t help that you don’t play ele.

You made your point, but if you disagree with how ppl post videos and draw wild conclusions from it, doing it yourself in a fit of revenge doesn’t help your cause either.

Dracromir has it spot on: thieves and eles have the lowest health and armor for those reasons.

Dacromir.6207:

Oliin.9581:

Huh, no points in arcane on that ele at all.

But yea, they can do that once every 45 seconds …

Okay, check this video out

That burst had two components. The first part was 12k damage, and that can be done every 12s. The second part was the 9k hit, and that can be done every 36s. Additionally, he had other huge-hitting burst skills (arcane) that he could use, which would hit for well over 4k each. Arcane skills don’t interrupt your current cast and can be cast while you’re using other skills. He also would do bucketloads of damage with Drake’s Breath or even the fire autoattack, to finish off the people who survive the 12k hit.

Not only could he pull off 12k+ burst every 12s, that burst is a 5-target AoE. He could zoom into a group of 3 people and nearly kill them in seconds, and then absolutely wreck them if Fire Grab was available. Our burst is single-target.

Compare this to our burst. We can pull off similar single-target numbers with CnD -> BS -> HS. Our burst can be used every 5s. To do our massive insta-kill burst combo, we require 36s cooldowns (steal, sigil, basilisk venom). This allows us to match his burst with Fire Grab, but we stun the enemy while doing it and pull off the burst in a mere second.

One thing people love to point out about us is that we can stealth to run away if the burst fails. That’s true, but a glass cannon D/D elementalist can swap into water for self-healing, earth for control, or air for Ride the Lightning (crazy powerful escape). They also get mist form and other cantrips. We both have good escape ability while glass cannon spec.

TL;DR: Thieves have two bursts. We do good single-target without cooldowns, and can pull it off every 5s. Elementalists can do similar burst every 12s, but it’s AoE. We can also use 36s-45s cooldowns to make our burst higher, nearly instant, and stun the enemy while doing it. Elementalists can use similar skill slot investment and cooldowns to do equivalent levels of burst, but AoE. Thieves get stealth while glass-cannon, elementalists get movement skills and powerful self-healing.

^^THIS

Btw I have an Elementalist too, I just refuse to play D/D because I like staff (that´s the weapon for a caster imho. Daggers + melee range = Thief for me, not caster class), and after the last patch, where Eles lost two blast finishers completely due to badly performed bugfixes held me to play my Thief even more, even after recent nerfs, Thief skills/traits are still much more better in the case of working correctly (but not all of them, only more of them than with Elementalist), that I chose to stay with Thief class as a main until Elementalists will be fixed correctly.

Azucar.3594:

Guess what? YOU CAN SEE THE ELEMENTALIST COMING!!! Also, if he doesn’t kill you can’t vanish and try again and then vanish and try again

You have ZERO knowledge of what Backstab Builds work.Seriously.Isn’t thief visible until like 900 range?Vanish and try again w/o AS and BP?Vanish?How exactly you vanish in GW2?Which live-saving CD should he blow just to try again?Don’t you know that Backstab burst thief has only one condition cure per 30 sec?And basically no cripple cure?Don’t you know where his soft spots are?Where to hit him?You have played too much Shadowstep Rogue from the-other-game i guess but here you don’t have a clue ….

Nerf thief more. He took a few seconds too long to die in this video.

Phantom.8130:

Oliin.9581:

Huh, no points in arcane on that ele at all.

But yea, they can do that once every 45 seconds …

45 seconds you say? say….. doesn’t steal and basilisk venom finish it’s cooldown at that exact same speed? wow, what are the odds?

No one uses venoms lol

TheAmpca.1753:

Phantom.8130:

Oliin.9581:

Huh, no points in arcane on that ele at all.

But yea, they can do that once every 45 seconds …

45 seconds you say? say….. doesn’t steal and basilisk venom finish it’s cooldown at that exact same speed? wow, what are the odds?

No one uses venoms lol

The so called “OP” Thief backstab-burst build do. Please don´t post if you don´t posess the required knowledge, thanks.

STRanger.5120:

TheAmpca.1753:

Phantom.8130:

Oliin.9581:

Huh, no points in arcane on that ele at all.

But yea, they can do that once every 45 seconds …

45 seconds you say? say….. doesn’t steal and basilisk venom finish it’s cooldown at that exact same speed? wow, what are the odds?

No one uses venoms lol

The so called “OP” Thief backstab-burst build do. Please don´t post if you don´t posess the required knowledge, thanks.

Maybe yours does but I rarely ever see it

He is AFK. No need to say anything more.

TheAmpca.1753:

STRanger.5120:

TheAmpca.1753:

Phantom.8130:

Oliin.9581:

Huh, no points in arcane on that ele at all.

But yea, they can do that once every 45 seconds …

45 seconds you say? say….. doesn’t steal and basilisk venom finish it’s cooldown at that exact same speed? wow, what are the odds?

No one uses venoms lol

The so called “OP” Thief backstab-burst build do. Please don´t post if you don´t posess the required knowledge, thanks.

Maybe yours does but I rarely ever see it

No my doesn´t, I don´t run gimmicky builds, because I can´t stand the 45 (36) secs of total worthless of these builds….
But ppl still complain about them, kinda weird, right?

Running a bunker spec ele, we can outlast some people for a good while. But the moment a glass cannon backstab thief comes into play, 7.5k backstab on a Bunker build, thats over half life. Add in another stealth, backstab, cloak dagger, heartseekers which hit 4k. This video shows an ele who maxed out 30 fire 30 air and probably 10 water for dmg to vulnerable targets. All this build shows is that we can kill an AFK target, who does nothing to fight back, by blowing ALL our cooldowns.

We cannot use fire grab 2x – 3x in a Row unlike backstab. So even if they managed to get this off, he is instantly dead by anyone around.