Yet another Underpowered class
He is AFK. No need to say anything more.
Below are some videos against non afk opponents. Also in the first video I had improper recording settings giving me a near unplayable framerate (I’ve since fixed it). I found an afk opponent and figured it was good enough to show the theoretical potential.
These videos are me using a 20 30 0 0 20 scholar/berserker build. This build isn’t focused around this combo its just one of the many options I have available to engage a fight.
My point is that if you´re really playing Thief, you would know that you´re lying in the previous post…. (Steal CD 45 secs, basilisk venom 45 secs, assasin´s signet another 45secs) which all have bigger CD than Elementalists updraft (40 secs). So where is those abilities without CD you´ve been mentioning?
You noticed that the Ele player used Earthquake, Lighting Flash, Cleansing Fire, Arcane Wave, Fire Grab, right? Why are you talking about Updraft?
No my doesn´t, I don´t run gimmicky builds, because I can´t stand the 45 (36) secs of total worthless of these builds….
But ppl still complain about them, kinda weird, right?
One of the reason why the BS Thief is so strong is because they are NOT useless for ~45 seconds while his skills recharge.
I like how the Warrior popped frenzy just when the burst started.
Typical glass cannon ele blowing all his utilities to kill one thief. Sounds familiar…
Universal rule:
If you see an ele using RtL to you….get your kitten away, usually they’re going to RtL>Updraft>Lighting Whip spam, then if you’re still alive they switch to fire to finish the job, and you if don’t dodge at first you’re going to be in a really bad situation…and yes, not running full glass cannon gear helps a lot vs everyone with high bursts..
This seems a bit different, using teleport while channeling first burst, but dodging will work anyway…you can see if he starts channeling at distance..
(edited by Archaon.6245)
Okay, check this video out
That burst had two components. The first part was 12k damage, and that can be done every 12s. The second part was the 9k hit, and that can be done every 36s. Additionally, he had other huge-hitting burst skills (arcane) that he could use, which would hit for well over 4k each. Arcane skills don’t interrupt your current cast and can be cast while you’re using other skills. He also would do bucketloads of damage with Drake’s Breath or even the fire autoattack, to finish off the people who survive the 12k hit.
Not only could he pull off 12k+ burst every 12s, that burst is a 5-target AoE. He could zoom into a group of 3 people and nearly kill them in seconds, and then absolutely wreck them if Fire Grab was available. Our burst is single-target.
Admittedly I did not spend a ton of time reading that thread, but in glancing at it I didn’t find a readily noticeable video link anywhere.
That aside, I don’t really play d/d on my elementalist but the only 12s recharge power I can recall off hand is magnetic grasp which isn’t AoE that I an recall. Were you talking about the 15 second recharge ride the lightning instead?
I like how the Warrior popped frenzy just when the burst started.
You’re not supposed to notice that the warrior is taking 50% more damage from his own buff. It’s counter productive to the whiner’s argument.
we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of [ele] that would be viable
but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use.” – ANet
I like how the Warrior popped frenzy just when the burst started.
You’re not supposed to notice that the warrior is taking 50% more damage from his own buff. It’s counter productive to the whiner’s argument.
I agree that frenzy makes those numbers irrelevant (still an interesting fight though IMO). Although the second video from 9 to 11 seconds shows 17490 damage. If earthquake had crit and I had used arcane wave that would be an extra 5k dmg for 22500 dmg in 2 seconds (All AOE as opposed to thieves’ mostly single target). Fire grab hitting at above 25% health (no additional 20% dmg) for 11596 is quite powerful.
I suppose I don’t even really have a point to make with all that info I’m just throwing it out there.
(edited by Cosmic Teapot.9162)
Stop posting these frakking videos that show nothing but your burst combo. Show us you playing that spec successfully in a tournament and we might get talking.
Otherwise you’re just some bimbo who tries his best to get ele nerfed even frakking more with some frakked up 3 second video.
dude 11596 is pathetic man… also like ALL ur abilities crit and u had a 60 sec cooldown on mistform
u really think u could have done better ?
did the game just start to have all ur cooldowns available.. are u like really slow like bad at pvp to even bring this argument up?
It’s always easy talking ‘bad’ about others but not about ourself.
Just saying. I’m not here to point Eles (I have one myself) to be nerfed, but I want to write something:
There were (hope I’ll never see one more, sob) TONS of thread about nerfing the Thief, because some players were really surprised to see 11k damage, 13k damage, 15k damage with backstab, and so on. The demonstration were all similar to these on this thread (or far worse – only screenshot about the damage itself); all were shouting to nerf here, nert there.. and well, the nerfs coming. I think all of you know the last patch news about the Thief class.
Now, we have a similar situation with Eles. Well? I think, if this burst build (like the backstab thief) have this kind of potential – MAYBE it’ll be nerfed. Maybe.
A couple of second and Boom!, Player death. You can talk about circumstance, skills, AFK’s, Burst on Warrior ecc.. yea, you’re right. Just like Thief’s player did at that time.. but no one listened reasons, and the cry-cry of whiners didn’t stop.
IF I remember correctly, all were saying this thing: ‘No matter what – you can’t put that High Damage in so little time. Nerf’.. I see the same situation here.
But nevermind, Anet know how to deal with serious thing, and if Eles need nerf, they will get it. If not, I think all of us will be good the same.
The air elemental attunement can make for a great getaway
as seen in this video
I’m playing this build now on my Ele and its pretty lulzy in Spvp i must say, sure you die sometimes when you get focussed but for ez kills and glory farming its pretty good haha
My point is that if you´re really playing Thief, you would know that you´re lying in the previous post…. (Steal CD 45 secs, basilisk venom 45 secs, assasin´s signet another 45secs) which all have bigger CD than Elementalists updraft (40 secs). So where is those abilities without CD you´ve been mentioning?
You noticed that the Ele player used Earthquake, Lighting Flash, Cleansing Fire, Arcane Wave, Fire Grab, right? Why are you talking about Updraft?
No my doesn´t, I don´t run gimmicky builds, because I can´t stand the 45 (36) secs of total worthless of these builds….
But ppl still complain about them, kinda weird, right?One of the reason why the BS Thief is so strong is because they are NOT useless for ~45 seconds while his skills recharge.
Earthquake/updraft is basically the same type of skill with a similar cooldown. Except that earthquake is kinda unusable without lightning flash (any decent player will dodge it for it´s obvious animation), so updraft is another option how to engage and KD an opponent. Notice that Thief doesn´t have any of this KDs.
The second thing is, GC backstab thief IS useless before a Steal ability recharges, after he uses his burst single-target combo.
The builds which are not useless without stealth are not that you are talking about, they are not glass-cannons and don´t do nearly that amount of burst damage as some other classes.
First, learn about the possibilities of the class, then you can go to forums to actually make your point.
I agree that frenzy makes those numbers irrelevant (still an interesting fight though IMO). Although the second video from 9 to 11 seconds shows 17490 damage. If earthquake had crit and I had used arcane wave that would be an extra 5k dmg for 22500 dmg in 2 seconds (All AOE as opposed to thieves’ mostly single target). Fire grab hitting at above 25% health (no additional 20% dmg) for 11596 is quite powerful.
I suppose I don’t even really have a point to make with all that info I’m just throwing it out there.
I’m not criticizing you. You actually noted in your thread that the warrior popped frenzy and the damage was overkill because of it.
I’ve actually found the whole discussion stemming from your attempts to create the ultimate ele cheese combo to be refreshing. I get tired of arguing with the people who insist that ele does poor damage when anyone who knows what they’re doing can put out damage on par with anyone except for people with quickness and the broken CnMugD -> backstab < 1/2 second instakill.
I’ve actually dusted off my old zerker/zerker gear a little bit recently just to see the big numbers fly by again. Unfortunately, it’s still terrible against good players because all ele has in the fire tree is +damage and a little more +damage. Survive the first few seconds while they put everything on long cooldowns and then destroy them at your leisure or watch them try to run for it.
It’s fun though. You have to give it that.
It’s always easy talking ‘bad’ about others but not about ourself.
Just saying. I’m not here to point Eles (I have one myself) to be nerfed, but I want to write something:There were (hope I’ll never see one more, sob) TONS of thread about nerfing the Thief, because some players were really surprised to see 11k damage, 13k damage, 15k damage with backstab, and so on. The demonstration were all similar to these on this thread (or far worse – only screenshot about the damage itself); all were shouting to nerf here, nert there.. and well, the nerfs coming. I think all of you know the last patch news about the Thief class.
Now, we have a similar situation with Eles. Well? I think, if this burst build (like the backstab thief) have this kind of potential – MAYBE it’ll be nerfed. Maybe.
A couple of second and Boom!, Player death. You can talk about circumstance, skills, AFK’s, Burst on Warrior ecc.. yea, you’re right. Just like Thief’s player did at that time.. but no one listened reasons, and the cry-cry of whiners didn’t stop.IF I remember correctly, all were saying this thing: ‘No matter what – you can’t put that High Damage in so little time. Nerf’.. I see the same situation here.
But nevermind, Anet know how to deal with serious thing, and if Eles need nerf, they will get it. If not, I think all of us will be good the same.
2 seconds is 4-8 times longer than CnMugD -> Backstab takes to do the same damage.
Between internet latency and the limitation of human reaction time, people are dying to this broken combo before they even realize they’re being attacked, much less have a chance to respond and prevent it. That’s broken.
2 seconds is way faster fights than I want (in other games like WoW and Rift most hard cast spells take that long to cast and travel to the target), but just about every class can do it. If they’re going to nerf anything, it should be a blanket nerf to the core game mechanic of the way + % damage stacks and maybe to how much power/condition is given by each stack of might.
we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of [ele] that would be viable
but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use.” – ANet
True that eles can do burst if specced for it (the same 45 sec interval as thiefs) There are certain differences in relation to thiefs, though:
a) Thiefs can go invis following the burst, eles cannot
b) The ele burst reqires cast time – thief does not
c) Eles have to sacrifice more than thiefs in order to burst
a) Thiefs can go invis following the burst, eles cannot
b) The ele burst reqires cast time – thief does not
c) Eles have to sacrifice more than thiefs in order to burst
a) Eles have active defenses like heals, protection boon, KDs (also offensive use)
b) Ele don´t need positioning, which is huge advantage against experienced player compared to Thiefs need for the right position to BS.
c) Eles sacrifice is totally the same in the means of survivability (thiefs can stealth, Eles have more mobility and a TON of those boons like regen, protection and even invulnerability.) Also ele is not bound to one burst only, they have more posibilities how to burst which make them less predictable than Thiefs.
Both classes has its pros and cons, that´s all folks…
STRanger, though I partly agree, you should also consider
a) heals and regeneration is close to worthless in a burst spec
b) correct
c) correct that we have active defense, though not as much in a burst spec. The boons are also not very relevant as burst spec ele has zero boon duration and zero healing. Also, lightning flash is used during the burst to achieve the same as Steal (without relevant damage though). That leaves out possibly only mistform on a 72 sec timer! Guess what, I would go for stealth any time of day. Finally, yes eles have mobility but that is primariy only RTL which is not that reliant. Again, I would rather have shadow step or one of the other many mobility thief skills.
Yes, both classes has its pros and cons, but in my humble opinion, eles burst is not as reliant as thiefs and thiefs have higher survivability primarity due to stealth. Eles are aoe, though.
STRanger, though I partly agree, you should also consider
a) heals and regeneration is close to worthless in a burst spec
b) correct
c) correct that we have active defense, though not as much in a burst spec. The boons are also not very relevant as burst spec ele has zero boon duration and zero healing. Also, lightning flash is used during the burst to achieve the same as Steal (without relevant damage though). That leaves out possibly only mistform on a 72 sec timer! Guess what, I would go for stealth any time of day. Finally, yes eles have mobility but that is primariy only RTL which is not that reliant. Again, I would rather have shadow step or one of the other many mobility thief skills.Yes, both classes has its pros and cons, but in my humble opinion, eles burst is not as reliant as thiefs and thiefs have higher survivability primarity due to stealth. Eles are aoe, though.
You are correct of course. I have an elementalist too, so I know what I´m speaking about. Also if you consider the state of elementalist right now, it´s quite a broken class (bugs, trait synergy practically zero etc.). That´s why I prefer my Thief for some time now and recent update (killing dragon´s tooth and EA by removing blast finishers completely, even if uninteded) is a confirmation to me that I´ve done a right thing.
But all of this is the reason why I repeat over and over this: “The classes need to be fixed/repaired until any balancing can be adressed, without it, it is impossible to determine what is OP and what is not.”
I think that if the Eles were fixed and their mechanics working properly, it would be the most OP class in the game, when controlled by experienced player, because the posibilities of the class are enormous in comparison to the others.
Everyone can counter this, like everyone can counter HB or BS…so no need for nerfs, nerfing things it’s only annoying cause everytime ppl have to adjust builds to manage nerfs…please stop QQ bout everything that kills you, said that bout BS time ago and i’m saying the same for ele now… Great damage? Yes. Broken or OP? Not…to do that you have to scarifice hp, tough, healing and stuff…so you’ll be weak on other points. If ppl can’t use your weak points against you it’s their fault…not a skill\traits problem..
Okay, check this video out
That burst had two components. The first part was 12k damage, and that can be done every 12s. The second part was the 9k hit, and that can be done every 36s. Additionally, he had other huge-hitting burst skills (arcane) that he could use, which would hit for well over 4k each. Arcane skills don’t interrupt your current cast and can be cast while you’re using other skills. He also would do bucketloads of damage with Drake’s Breath or even the fire autoattack, to finish off the people who survive the 12k hit.
Not only could he pull off 12k+ burst every 12s, that burst is a 5-target AoE. He could zoom into a group of 3 people and nearly kill them in seconds, and then absolutely wreck them if Fire Grab was available. Our burst is single-target.
Admittedly I did not spend a ton of time reading that thread, but in glancing at it I didn’t find a readily noticeable video link anywhere.
That aside, I don’t really play d/d on my elementalist but the only 12s recharge power I can recall off hand is magnetic grasp which isn’t AoE that I an recall. Were you talking about the 15 second recharge ride the lightning instead?
Wow, I feel stupid. I must have thought I’d copied the link to the video, but I guess I didn’t. The only thing I can think is that I had that link on my clipboard from earlier.
Edited that post, and this is the video I meant to post.
A thief complaining about a glass cannon Ele, now I’ve seen it all.
To get burst in S/D you need to drop Dragon’s Tooth, Phoenix, Ring of Fire, Firegrab on your target(s). DT and Phoenix have a serious delay that is even longer than the stun (updraft)most Ele’s open with, so a simple dodge can suffice to undo the entire burstcycle. The Ele is only guaranteed to land that burst if he specced for signet of earth or switches to earth during the setup to hit you with arcane spells which will root you shortly due to the 30 point arcane talent.
If you, a thief, are seriously complaining about burst in full sight with 4s escape window and a pretty big cooldown afterwards, then the problem is entirely and completely on your side, period.
FYI, I’m not even sure why it isn’t fine for the class in the game that has the least health, the least native armor and the most complex basic rotation, while lacking “get out of jail free” cards like stealth, to have some decent burst (after they set it up and the opponent is too dim-witted to escape it).
A thief complaining about a glass cannon Ele, now I’ve seen it all.
To get burst in S/D you need to drop Dragon’s Tooth, Phoenix, Ring of Fire, Firegrab on your target(s). DT and Phoenix have a serious delay that is even longer than the stun (updraft)most Ele’s open with, so a simple dodge can suffice to undo the entire burstcycle. The Ele is only guaranteed to land that burst if he specced for signet of earth or switches to earth during the setup to hit you with arcane spells which will root you shortly due to the 30 point arcane talent.
If you, a thief, are seriously complaining about burst in full sight with 4s escape window and a pretty big cooldown afterwards, then the problem is entirely and completely on your side, period.
FYI, I’m not even sure why it isn’t fine for the class in the game that has the least health, the least native armor and the most complex basic rotation, while lacking “get out of jail free” cards like stealth, to have some decent burst (after they set it up and the opponent is too dim-witted to escape it).
OP was more just pointing out that other classes can burst too….
As for your whole dodge roll ruins the combo argument… what combo doesn’t dodge roll ruin again?
Edited that post, and this is the video I meant to post.
And people are kittening about Thief burst.
2 second TTK and all of it is Area of Effect.
Basilisk Venom? Single Hit/Target. 45s cooldown. Elite Slot used.
Steal? Single Target. 45s cooldown.
Cnd? Single Target. 6 initiative (40% of our pool at 15 Initiative)
Backstab? You guessed it, Single Target. (4s Revealed cooldown, Requires Stealth, Requires positioning to the Rear 90° arc)
Burning Speed – AoE Blast damage, 15s cooldown.
Ring of Fire – AoE “Field Creation” damage, Fire combo Field, Applies burning. 15s cooldown.
Fire Grab – 300 Range Conical Area of Effect. 45s cooldown.
Why did Thieves get nerfed again? Oh right. Because we do it with a dagger and not fire.
I want my pre-nerf Cloak and Dagger damage back now, thank you. That elementalist didn’t have to blow a single utility skill or elite to hit that kind of burst and landed a kill just as fast as a far more frail Thief could do at the risk of being nearly useless until Steal/BV are up.
[NEX]
#swaguuma
(edited by Aervius.2016)
Yes thief is totally underpowered class which suffer every patch because crying kids still QQ for nerves because some thief killed them on WvW. The true is that thief is now UP after all these nerves and as glass cannon die in 2-3 seconds. He has high costs of initiative so after using 2-3 skills thief is defenceless with no skills and easy target for other players. I would really have better normal cd skills then initiative because initiative is all time out and then thief die. The real OP class here are necros and mesmer. Fighting mesmer is like fighting agains small army with many crowd controls and necro can have summoned about 7 permanent monsters at one time, hp like tanks almost double than thief, life stealing from enemies. These two classes are op like hell but all cry for thief nerf. You are really a joke, crying kids.
im playing a theif and i feel they do way too much damage for the amount of damage they can avoid. eles cant hide and dont have extra dodge skills. theifs arent perfect the way they are accept it. i regularly run into groups and spam death blossom and usually make it out without taking a hit granted i dont usually kill anything but i do heavily damage them and leave them with bleeding damage. their spike is unforgiving and needs to either lower their life so that they can be killed just as fast by the other player or not be able to kill a warrior in 4 seconds.
im playing a theif and i feel they do way too much damage for the amount of damage they can avoid. eles cant hide and dont have extra dodge skills. theifs arent perfect the way they are accept it. i regularly run into groups and spam death blossom and usually make it out without taking a hit granted i dont usually kill anything but i do heavily damage them and leave them with bleeding damage. their spike is unforgiving and needs to either lower their life so that they can be killed just as fast by the other player or not be able to kill a warrior in 4 seconds.
Really?
Man, I should really learn how to be as pro as you are with that 30/30/30/30/30 build.
Given that anyone who’s actually played a Thief (not rolled one and trolled the golems in the HoM’s, but you know, actually invested time and patience into learning the nuances of the class) will know that you are flat out lying, it’s safe to say you’re a buttmad GS+Rifle warrior who got kitten on by a Backstab OR Condition Thief.
[NEX]
#swaguuma
A thief complaining about a glass cannon Ele, now I’ve seen it all.
Useless drivel about Scepter/Dagger Ele’s thinking they are using the best weapon set for burst damage
FYI, I’m not even sure why it isn’t fine for the class in the game that has the least health, the least native armor and the most complex basic rotation, while lacking “get out of jail free” cards like stealth, to have some decent burst (after they set it up and the opponent is too dim-witted to escape it).
Let me spell it out for you:
1. Dual dagger is your burst set.
2. 1-5 skills are no more complex than any other classes “rotation”.
3. Attunements effectively gaurantee that you will always have the right ability for the right moment.
4. Cantrips aren’t all stun breaks + damage soaks (+10s of Regen and Vigor for 10 points in Water)? Huh, those tooltips and Elementalist tourney videos must all be deceiving me… and the rest of the community. Glad we have you around to clarify that for us.
*LF = 900 range “slow-mo” teleport. Breaks stun. 244 base damage, melee ranged AoE.
*MF = 3 INVULNERABILITY window. Breaks stun.
*AoEarth = 6s Protection/Stability. Breaks stun.
*Cleansing Flame = 3 conditions removed. Breaks stun. 3s AoE Burning.
What “get out of jail card” are you claiming that Ele’s don’t have?
The problem isn’t the Thiefs capabilities, the problem is you don’t understand your Elementalist as well as you claim to.
Proof.
More proof.
Lemon-squeeze for that cut.
You shoud get the point by now.
[NEX]
#swaguuma
(edited by Aervius.2016)
im playing a theif and i feel they do way too much damage for the amount of damage they can avoid. eles cant hide and dont have extra dodge skills. theifs arent perfect the way they are accept it. i regularly run into groups and spam death blossom and usually make it out without taking a hit granted i dont usually kill anything but i do heavily damage them and leave them with bleeding damage. their spike is unforgiving and needs to either lower their life so that they can be killed just as fast by the other player or not be able to kill a warrior in 4 seconds.
These thieves that kill warriors in 4 seconds have about 12k hp. How much less health do you want them to have?
i regularly run into groups and spam death blossom and usually make it out without taking a hit granted i dont usually kill anything but i do heavily damage them and leave them with bleeding damage.
So you do damage, don’t kill anything, and run. How does this make the thief overpowered in any way? You could play a class with 1200 range (well use your warrior that just died in 4 secs), stay at max range and do the same thing, with less risk to yourself. I don’t know why you added this part to your post…
On a side note, please stop saying that eles have the smallest HP in the game. That honor is shared with thieves and guardians.
(edited by Topher.1684)