Guild Wars 2

It’s just unfair as it is now. dont come and say thiefs have the highest burst cause i see other classes doin the exact same thing whithout having to give up most of their survivability in traits.
And what’s up with this condi meta, bring back stronger powerbuilds, and please remove revealed skills…. i dont want to be a cap bot i want to fight aswell.
And remove all passive traits from all classes.
Also sorry i wasn’t clear i was talking about sPvP.
Yes im very new to thief i have only played 2330 matches with my thief.
And i have “never” walked into a capture point and got oneshotted by guard traps even thou the guard was on the other side of the map, and im running Marauder….catch my drift? Ofc thief is good if you just run around picking 15%hp enemies and decapping points…… i just think a little bit more vitality should be proper.
The only thing it would do would give us a bit more time not to get onedropped if you get caught offguard. from another class. Just saying.
And i mean now that there’s revealed skills i think vitality would just be fair.
And removing passive traits would make pvp more active like no more auto endure pain upon almost death etc. These are just thought’s, im not demanding anything i just think they should make it even.

Hello Mr. Fox,
do you know what a fox hunt is?
If not, you will most likely know soon.
This is better suited for the pvp\ thief sub forum, or even the revenant\ necro Forums as most suggestions like that pop up there.
Just for one second think what other mechanics the thief has. Can you, with a straight face, demand a change like that?

ofc i can, i sacrifice everything just to dodge i cant cleanse off every condi in the game which btw deals the same amount of dmg as a backstab when it’s insta applied. and then i have to trait for survivability and remove alot of dmg which i need for bursting.
Stealth is the essence of thiefs and it’s beeing molested by revealed skills.
I just think it’s sad.

@OP: stop crying. Thieves are overpowered as they are. A good thief can counter any situation and kill in almost one hit. Not to mention they are constantly invisible and teleport better than mages.

If you want more vitality then I want their blink/shadow step completely removed and stealth greatly nerfed.

The low vitality and relatively fragile nature are signs that you need to learn manoeuvrability to be very fluid on the battlefield. If you want something more resilient go with a Warrior or a Guardian like most people here. Those classes, especially the guard, are far too strong.

Complaining like you do only signals one thing – you don’t know how to play the thief.

This is just so weird….
Recently I’ve made a thief, due to the 80 lvl boost and since then I spend all my time on PvP/WvW. The thief is OVERPOWERED if you do not mash up buttons like a newborn. The fact, that you have to PERFECTLY time your attack in order to kill: the daredevil profession which makes you learn how to dodge: your fragility which is balanced by INVISIBILITY and TURBOSPEED – this is the essence of the thief.
What do you want to have – a tank, which can absorb damage like sponge, become invisible and rekt people by looking at them?
Learn to play bro, or go warrior if you can’t deal with a little harder class.

Cooldown.3876:

dont come and say thiefs have the highest burst cause i see other classes doin the exact same thing

I thought my longbow ranger dealt pretty good damage in full berserker gear. Then switched over that gear to my thief. God almighty that damage! One Unload from dual pistols can kill normal PvE monsters just like that. I played it for a while in WvW and never have I seen enemy players fall so fast.

The coefficients are ridiculous. Thief dagger: (0.8+0.85+1.1)/1.68=1.63
Compare this to something like mesmer greatsword attacks: 0.945/1.4=0.675
oh the poor mesmer! Deals one third of thief’s damage when you take into account all damage multiplications from traits.

These are not the same. Thieves have invisibility, best movement in game from shortbow 5 and quite possibly the highest damage output. 12k backstabs. Only thing they don’t have is health.

Are we talking just PvP here? Because in PvE I have a thief with over 21,000 HP and full condition damage. Dunno what that’d be like in PvP but she kicks rear when doing PvE.

Zenith.6403:

Cooldown.3876:

dont come and say thiefs have the highest burst cause i see other classes doin the exact same thing

I thought my longbow ranger dealt pretty good damage in full berserker gear. Then switched over that gear to my thief. God almighty that damage! One Unload from dual pistols can kill normal PvE monsters just like that. I played it for a while in WvW and never have I seen enemy players fall so fast.

The coefficients are ridiculous. Thief dagger: (0.8+0.85+1.1)/1.68=1.63
Compare this to something like mesmer greatsword attacks: 0.945/1.4=0.675
oh the poor mesmer! Deals one third of thief’s damage when you take into account all damage multiplications from traits.

These are not the same. Thieves have invisibility, best movement in game from shortbow 5 and quite possibly the highest damage output. 12k backstabs. Only thing they don’t have is health.

Except thieves are much more glassy than mesmers or rangers (vitality wise) and have 900 range max. You also cannot compare a 1200 range weapon with a melee range one because the melee range should hit more often or harder to make it worthwhile to deal with kiting and CC.

12K backstabs do less than Coalescence of ruin from revenant or gunflame from berserker warrior. Last I checked unload is projectile and requires 5 initiative.

If you mean daredevil evasion (lol heal on dodge + Unhindered Combatant), it’s really because all elite specs are overtuned.

It’s really a profession built around mobility and quick sneak attacks and ganking (+1s as PvPers call it).

Sure thing bud. We will give you your vitality boost. We will also give your thief a massive toughness boost baseline, pulsing immunity to reveal, pulsing resistance to conditions, aegis every three seconds, permanent retaliation, the ability to counter all passive abilities in the game, all baseline.

In return all we ask is that thieves give up massive stealth uptime, all your evasion uptime, your power, ferocity and precision stats will all be reduced by 75%, all your mobility skills will be removed, all speed increasing skills will be removed, you will no longer be able to create a burst in the form of venomshares, and your dazes and stuns will be replaced with one second of regeneration.

Sounds fair ok? After all, don’t all thieves want to be walking walls of invulnerability?

As a person who mains a thief, yes call me bad if you want. No. Please do not buff thieves ANY more. I already have enough people whining to me that “thieves are cheap classes” or “wow learn to play a real class”. I don’t need to give them a reason to whine. I played thief for 6 months, PvE & PvP. It just seems you need to practice a little more with your thief, is all. After all, you’re a thief. What does this mean? You do NOT need to go in balls blazing, expecting to win every 1v1. You have a role, assuming this is pvp, you cap points, you run quick, and you help your team by sneaking up and assisting them in fights. Doing this, will allow you to get much better with your class, and also allow you to win much more 1v1’s. But i swear if thieves get one more buff, and i have to hear these kittenbabies whine even more about me being a “hax” because i have a deathly combo that can drop folks in 3 shots, i’ll seriously consider resigning from thief. I digress, thieves are just fine how they are, the burst we have ARE stupid good. Our ability to get in and out of a situation using stealth is sometimes a bit extreme, and the fact we can get to one side of the map to the other in under 10 seconds is wonderful. Practice more with it, and trust me… once you get better, you’ll retract your request, by realizing, thieves are just fine. It’s not an over night class, it takes lots of practice, precision, accuracy, and knowing when and what to use. For some people, they just can’t play thief, and if thats the case, i would advise doing as others have suggested and pick up Warr, maybe Rev? This is of course just assuming you’re referring to PvP, because if you’re needing this assistance in PvE, then we’ll need to find you a different class. I hope it gets better for you, and truly do hope you end up liking thief. Its a fun class, just… not an easy one.

Oi my warrior has no blazing balls mate. If you see one, send him to the closest druid asap, that can’t be healthy.

Infusion.7149:

Except thieves are much more glassy than mesmers or rangers (vitality wise) and have 900 range max. You also cannot compare a 1200 range weapon with a melee range one because the melee range should hit more often or harder to make it worthwhile to deal with kiting and CC.

Alright then, but OP was saying that all the classes have similar burst damage. Unload as a ranged skill still has 0.4*8/1.5=2.13 power coefficient and you can fire it three times in rapid succession before waiting for initiative to regenerate. It was a good skill before, but now Anet decided to give it stacking might also.

I haven’t done the calculations, but those who are worried about low vitality could even get themselves +vitality armor and still deal okay damage when compared to other classes. Health difference between thieves and rangers is 4277 health.

Thieves have such a fantastic damage multiplication from traits. Here’s what I have:

• +10% damage to foes with condition
• +20% damage to foes below 50% health
• +5% critical strike chance while above 90% health
• +7% critical strike chance when attacking from behind or side
• 4s fury when attacking enemy below 90% health
• +10% pistol damage to crippled foes, cripple on critical
• +10% critical damage to foes above 50% health
• +250 ferocity while you have fury
• Gain haste when flanking
• +1% … +15% more damage per initiative spent

Take a look at Mesmer’s trait list. My first thought when looking at it is I don’t need any of these.

Inoki.6048:

@OP: stop crying. Thieves are overpowered as they are. A good thief can counter any situation and kill in almost one hit. Not to mention they are constantly invisible and teleport better than mages.

If you want more vitality then I want their blink/shadow step completely removed and stealth greatly nerfed.

The low vitality and relatively fragile nature are signs that you need to learn manoeuvrability to be very fluid on the battlefield. If you want something more resilient go with a Warrior or a Guardian like most people here. Those classes, especially the guard, are far too strong.

Complaining like you do only signals one thing – you don’t know how to play the thief.

OMG AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you lost me at first line already. Thief OP, guize! Oh my sides. HAHAHAHAHA.

I think anyone half decent in pvp would disagree with you. Also, you can almost 1 shot only squishies (aka zerker thieves, eles and mes).

Also, guards are too strong? Are we playing same game lol? Yes, guards do a lot of dmg and block/blinds can be obnoxious but they drop really fast in teamplay.

Back to topic, OP you can build for more HP if you really need it. I think if elites got nerfed and thieves got more ways of dealing with blocks/invuls/passives of other classes they would be in sweet spot.

Pls do not give thieves more vitality.
We are literally immortal in pvp.
The only thing that keeps us controlled is the fact that we cant afford to stick to an enemy and deal damage.
Thats good as it is.

Inoki.6048:

@OP: stop crying. Thieves are overpowered as they are. A good thief can counter any situation and kill in almost one hit. Not to mention they are constantly invisible and teleport better than mages.

If you want more vitality then I want their blink/shadow step completely removed and stealth greatly nerfed.

The low vitality and relatively fragile nature are signs that you need to learn manoeuvrability to be very fluid on the battlefield. If you want something more resilient go with a Warrior or a Guardian like most people here. Those classes, especially the guard, are far too strong.

Complaining like you do only signals one thing – you don’t know how to play the thief.

Thieves, OP? LOL. “a good thief can counter any situation” well, yeah, at the highest skill cap, playing perfectly, that’s kind of what thieves are supposed to be able to do.

One shot kill? That’s funny. A thief can only one shot burst on a full glass build. We haven’t been able to easily one shot since near release.

A thief that is better than you will usually kill you- that’s how its supposed to work and it hasn’t worked that way until recently. Now that thieves aren’t a free kill, people complain because they don’t want to use their usually unused brain power to take a second and think about when they shouldn’t and shouldn’t hit, then complain about dodge or invisibility.

While now I don’t care as much about an HP buff, this is just plain silly. Also, your terminology of this game (mages? this isn’t WoW) discredits you as well, imo.

To the OP: its not as much of a problem any more because we are in a better spot now, but if you’re in WvW, build for more hp, such as mara and soldier. I have about 17k hp on my thief, up to 18k with buffs.

Not necessary, OP.

Marauder/Valk offsets this nicely. We have great damage output as well.

Daredevil is a conceptually overpowered concept; compared DD to core thief and the gap is absolutely massive. When I play my daredevil-built thief, I can surf 30-man enemy blobs with 14k health alone. The defenses here are wildly busted. Core thief, however, there’s barely enough sustain for a 1v1.

Nerf DD’s spammy evades via cutting CV’s heal substantially or its endurance regen, bump the cooldown on BD to 25s, buff core thief burst condition cleansing potential (this is carried by DD), and remove a large number of passives from the game, buff others’ active defenses, and the thief is in a much better combat spot while upping the skill ceiling on other professions.

At one point i would of agreed with you OP.
but since they almost gave us back “old Acro” you really don’t need it.
yes it is riduculas you have to pick Acro/Daredevil just to get what you would from feline grace and the vigor nerf’s but thems the breaks.

I too used to think we needed this but no longer. With all of the buffs to thieves , acro included I think our survival much better. I think too many will take those power buffs to the extreme (specifically in pve and wvw) thinking more damage always better.

Those power buffs allow us to scale back on damage stats and invest some more into toughness and vitality without seriously harming damage output. I just recently changed some of my stats in my ascended armor to sentenils, something I would never have considered before and it works out quite well.

Nah, not needed. Especially now with Daredevil…
I’d gladly see the removal of brainless passive procs, but I don’t see that happening any time soon. Aside of that, there’s better ways to buff Thief that are actually in line with the idea of what a thief’s supposed to be. Increased cleansing through Shadow Arts, return of the trait “Power of Inertia” to Acrobatics, a blind on Cloak and Dagger… But really, biggest thief buffs come through the nerfs to other classes because Thief’s simply in a good balanced spot right now.

Inoki.6048:

@OP: stop crying. Thieves are overpowered as they are. A good thief can counter any situation and kill in almost one hit. Not to mention they are constantly invisible and teleport better than mages.

Thanks for the laugh.

Asrat.2645:

Pls do not give thieves more vitality.
We are literally immortal in pvp.
The only thing that keeps us controlled is the fact that we cant afford to stick to an enemy and deal damage.
Thats good as it is.

Anyone can be ‘literally immortal’ if all they do is run.

Also, one thing to learn from this thread is that majority of the people have no idea what ‘overpowered’ is, and like to throw the word around for no apparent reason.

Asrat.2645:

Pls do not give thieves more vitality.
We are literally immortal in pvp.
The only thing that keeps us controlled is the fact that we cant afford to stick to an enemy and deal damage.
Thats good as it is.

Immortal in PvP?

I facepalmed so hard I probably broke my nose.

(I don’t even play my thief often but this is sorta common sense.)But. . .pretty sure the purpose of an “assassin class” wasn’t to take hits and crushing blows.

Thief is in the meta team for s3. Stop crying.

Volatile.8452:

Asrat.2645:

Pls do not give thieves more vitality.
We are literally immortal in pvp.
The only thing that keeps us controlled is the fact that we cant afford to stick to an enemy and deal damage.
Thats good as it is.

Immortal in PvP?

I facepalmed so hard I probably broke my nose.

Its a fact m8. If you die as a teef in sPvP, its your own fault.
@Silverbolt. No. Because every other class can be chased down or locked in place.
The only class that can chase a thief is another thief. Or maybe a rev if you are low on ini and health.

Bump Thief needs a base of 15k hp no more no less.

Warriors kill any non vitality/toughness amulet thief with one skill.

Zelulose.8695:

Bump Thief needs a base of 15k hp no more no less.

Warriors kill any non vitality/toughness amulet thief with one skill.

If you want zerker to be viable, fix the game, not the class.

I still don’t think more vitality is what the thief needs. However, since most of our burst is single target, we should be able to bypass some defenses people throw up to avoid it.

Easiest suggestion I have would be to make Basi Venom instant. That way I can choose which attack to make unblockable. That way it promotes active and skilled play!

Invest in Marauder’s, damage reduction runes, and food.

Furajir.3815 says something sensible that can help you to deal with your HP issue.

Myself, I use some soldier pieces of armor and food that increase my survivabilty.

My daredevil can follow a zerg with few issues if i play correctly…

In roaming situation, it’s often a surprise for a glass canon, as another thief, to realize that its primary burst didn’t kill me…And as themselves are very fragile the soldier pieces of armor I wear are not an issue for me to counter Attack.

Inoki.6048:

@OP: stop crying. Thieves are overpowered as they are. A good thief can counter any situation and kill in almost one hit. Not to mention they are constantly invisible and teleport better than mages.

If you want more vitality then I want their blink/shadow step completely removed and stealth greatly nerfed.

Someones bad … I dont know, maybe guess who?

Anyways, look, stealth is supposed to be Thief’s defensive mechanic. Its secondary role is damage/utility. The days of backstab spam upon unaware WvW groups is over.