Guild Wars 2

Ok for me thieves are hands down my favorite class to play, it’s the same with other mmos, i love the rogue archtypes.

Now this is for nostalgia because my first mmo i used to play an assassin and imo it has the best skills you can think of.

Ok now my fantasy skills i would love to see on my thief but prob won’t.

Death call- a modify scorpion wire, except it paralyze your target for 2sec, meaning it’s not a stun and it cannot be broken by any skill
Parry- (trait) 20% chance to block PHYSICAL attacks.
Silence- Disables your target’s skills. Lasts 4 secs.
Confusion Pouch- Confusion takes over for 8 secs. User in confusion does not receive damage. (you can confuse yourself or an enemy, you cannot move and use skills while under it’s effect.
(need different name than confusion since there’s already condition named after it.)
Sealing Circle- similar to the guardian hammer skill, a creates a circle that foes cannot get in or out for a duration. (10sec maybe)

TRAPS it will have similar appearance of a totem.

Ruin Trap- 20% drop in your target’s Defense if they are within the Trap Range. Lasts 45 secs.
Healing Trap- 15% HP recovered every 3 seconds for all party members within range. Lasts 30 sec
Heart Trap – 40% chance of stunning your target for 1 secs every 5 secs. Lasts 30 secs.
Scarecrow- 1800 damage given to random targets within the Trap’s Range. Lasts 60 secs.
Immobile Trap- Opponents that are inside the trap range will have a 30% drop in their attack speed. Lasts 30 secs.
Doom Trap- 15% drop in the Attack of your target inside the trap range. lasts 60 seconds
Strength Trap- Absorb 80 power from your target that’s within the trap range. Lasts 60 secs.

Demolition- 100% boost in damage dealt to your targets aligned at your location. 30% of the damage is applied as Poison damage. Lasts 15 secs.
Duplication- 40 % chance of exchanging your target’s health with yours. Lasts 10 seconds.

And my favorite….
Suicide- 90% chance of committing suicide with 3 targets. If it doesn’t activate, then you’re dead instead of your targets.

You played Rohan:Blood Feud, didn’t you? Love the assassin techniques in that game, lol.

Cyric.7485:

You played Rohan:Blood Feud, didn’t you? Love the assassin techniques in that game, lol.

Yup hehe

Backstab – Shadow step behind your target and stab him in the back, high damage, ranged ability.

Classic Assassin ability <3

I would love to see a lot of these implemented, but Rohan was a much more brutal game than I predict this ever will be.

If I had to pick one though, the Sealing Circle would be my choice. Nothing like watching your enemy turn to run, realize they can’t, and turn back to a stealthed thief with a gleam in his/her eye.

Good times, good times.

Divest Armor: Removes up to 3 pieces of armor from the target for 4 seconds
Divest Weapon: Removes the target’s weapon for 2 seconds
Kidnap: Shadowstep back with the target, causing immobilize for 3 seconds
Cutpurse: Strike the target at close range, reducing the cooldown of Steal by 15 seconds

1. Add Kyoketshu Shogei Dagger+ chain weapon best seen in Ninja Assassin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zoYCvmeNZQ
Could be more range then any of our melee weapons but less then pistol, and does good AOE attacks and has a scorpion wire like ability in like slot #2.

2. Jump height boosters. Mobility and acrobatics are not constrained to movement speed only, but games and their creators like to take the “been there done that” easy way out instead of being creative. I think passive and active abilities to be able to jump like 5-10x higher (with a faster movement speed while jumping so we arent jumping really high and moving only 3 feet).

@ Jjiinx love the kidnap one

^ they’re not going to ever change jump height. it would break the game on so many levels it’s not even funny.

what i really want is more incentive for thieves to synergize two weapon sets, rather than carrying a melee one and a ranged one and almost never switching weapons in combat. too little weapon options to pick + shared initiative pool means you’re usually better off with a single set.

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

Backstab – Shadow step behind your target and stab him in the back, high damage, ranged ability.

Classic Assassin ability <3

backstab is in game. stealth yourself while holding a dagger, aim for the back for double damage.

combine with stealth when stealing, and you got exactly the skill you just described.

Sonic Blow
Hide
Cloak
Venom Splasher
Katarr
Grimtooth
Apply poison

BrunoBRS.5178:

^ they’re not going to ever change jump height. it would break the game on so many levels it’s not even funny.

what i really want is more incentive for thieves to synergize two weapon sets, rather than carrying a melee one and a ranged one and almost never switching weapons in combat. too little weapon options to pick + shared initiative pool means you’re usually better off with a single set.

It doesn’t have to break the game. It can be either set so the max height is capped lower then the average keep/tower wall. Extremely minimizing where that can be used, unless of course really the community understands even if a thief can jump over a keep wall lets say if they specced for jump height, that means the thieves on ALL servers in the matchup will be able to do the same. It would add a nice flavor and tactics to wvwvw as well since you can choose to have manned defense of your orbs or risk losing them to a (non hacking) thief or 2. This would also promote positive gameplay in another way as well, as no single server would really have all the orb buffs as they would be constantly getting jacked by other sides thieves. As for PVE, not really a concern, who cares if a thief can jump a bit higher. spvp? So what if the thief can jump up on the rooftop of the small house instead of using the stairs, he could have just IAed or shadowstepped there anyway.

Knyx.5926:

BrunoBRS.5178:

^ they’re not going to ever change jump height. it would break the game on so many levels it’s not even funny.

what i really want is more incentive for thieves to synergize two weapon sets, rather than carrying a melee one and a ranged one and almost never switching weapons in combat. too little weapon options to pick + shared initiative pool means you’re usually better off with a single set.

It doesn’t have to break the game. It can be either set so the max height is capped lower then the average keep/tower wall. Extremely minimizing where that can be used, unless of course really the community understands even if a thief can jump over a keep wall lets say if they specced for jump height, that means the thieves on ALL servers in the matchup will be able to do the same. It would add a nice flavor and tactics to wvwvw as well since you can choose to have manned defense of your orbs or risk losing them to a (non hacking) thief or 2. This would also promote positive gameplay in another way as well, as no single server would really have all the orb buffs as they would be constantly getting jacked by other sides thieves. As for PVE, not really a concern, who cares if a thief can jump a bit higher. spvp? So what if the thief can jump up on the rooftop of the small house instead of using the stairs, he could have just IAed or shadowstepped there anyway.

it’s not just that. it’s the entire game that would have to be redone to fix map barriers that the new jumping height can jump over, it’s entire jumping puzzles ruined because you can jump higher (the WvW borderlands puzzle is suddenly very easy), it’s jumping to places only people with the height bonus can reach, giving you a verticality advantage over mobs and other players, etc.

and you can’t shadowstep anywhere you can’t walk to. you can’t shadowstep even past a small gap that you can easily jump over.

I did mention stairs on the house I used an example of, so you could shadowstep to it.
I think you think I am talking about some super jump ability, even a 10x increase isn’t that high. So what if it makes jumping puzzles easier and we have an advantage in that area. That argument is moot because that is the entire design of having CLASSES and ROLES in the first place. Everyone has an advantage over someone else in some way, and I did mention the possibility of having to spec for it, which would mean sacrificing other things for the ability. I guess we should nerf Mesmers because they have an advantage over a lot of things with portal? How about nerf elementalists too because with a few points in air they are more mobile (advantage) then theif (supposed to be the most mobile class)? Welp Warriors can’t have some of their Adrenaline abilities that let you leap because that gives them an advantage too

this isn’t balance, this is breaking the level design structure. those are two different things entirely. the high jump ability you propose would only function as a game breaker tool, and no matter how harmless you expect it to be, it’s not going to happen.

BrunoBRS.5178:

this isn’t balance, this is breaking the level design structure. those are two different things entirely. the high jump ability you propose would only function as a game breaker tool, and no matter how harmless you expect it to be, it’s not going to happen.

You are still using the same moot argument with nothing to back it up. Oh well agree to disagree.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

Backstab – Shadow step behind your target and stab him in the back, high damage, ranged ability.

Classic Assassin ability <3

backstab is in game. stealth yourself while holding a dagger, aim for the back for double damage.

combine with stealth when stealing, and you got exactly the skill you just described.

Nope, don’t want it with stealth and steal won’t shadowstep me behind the target when I face them. Also, the combo you described will take 1-2 sec. I want it to be instant

heh @ Blazer, I kinda think if they end up nerfing Backstabs damage potential, (at their current reputation of listening to the whine population) they will, They should just remove the positional on it all together. Skills requiring positional AND stealth only makes sense in a game with basically perma stealth naturally

Doubt they will nerf backstab, they didn’t touch Quickness because it applies to multiple professions. If they nerf backstab build they will nerf Assassin Signet and Steal doing damage trait (did 6k with it once lol).

nudges thing back towards the topic rails

Fantasy thief skills. Well for starters some would involve an off hand sword and just more weapon options in general. Also, improve Scorpion Wire and Shadowstep to deal with intervening terrain and moving over gaps.

Sideswipe- When you’re about to be hit, you shadowstep behind the attacker and strike them. Add range to it and make it a conditional gap closer. Functioning like the parries in game, actually this could probably be the fix people want for Flanking Strike >_>

Hidden Death- Stealth, root/bleed the target. Disable their condition cleansers and let them die unseen and alone (I feel a little more evil just for typing that)

Swap positions- You and your target swap positions.

Weapon Specific
Kyoketshu Shogei Dagger+ chain (thanks Kynx)

I’ve seen people suggest whips and I’m still for them, but this seems like it would be more of a two handed version.

Skills for AOE, trapping and a projectile defense for the frontal arc. Something that can protect several people.

Dire Sword/Double Sword- Whatever you want to call it. http://www.trueswords.com/images/prod/c/TS-CRUSADER_540.jpg
I used one on my main in NWN for years, and haven’t seen them in another game since. I loved the things and figure that if a Thief was going to have something on par with a greatsword, but not a greatsword, why not?

I’ll think of more sometime I’m sure.

Isn’t this thread called “Fantasy THIEF skills”? If so, then why do people keep bringing up Assassin’s when that class doesn’t exist in this game? Thieves are NOT Assassin’s, why is that such a hard concept for some people? It seems like more than half of the suggestions in here are based around the assumption that Thieves are Assassins, when in fact, they aren’t. Be more realistic or re-name the thread.

Knyx.5926:

BrunoBRS.5178:

this isn’t balance, this is breaking the level design structure. those are two different things entirely. the high jump ability you propose would only function as a game breaker tool, and no matter how harmless you expect it to be, it’s not going to happen.

You are still using the same moot argument with nothing to back it up. Oh well agree to disagree.

nothing to back it up? it’s level design 101: place stuff that players can’t trespass to limit the game box.

the game was full of exploitable areas that you could go through by glitching through the map. an example? caudecus manor, explorable, seraph path. about halfway through, there’s a tough segment where you have to place 5 barrels in front of a gate while keeping enemies from taking them away. however, until recently, players were able to circumvent that whole part of the puzzle by jumping through an unintended path. how did they fix it? they placed a bigger rock.

if you let thieves jump higher, suddenly they can skip an entire segment of the dungeon, and before you know it, thief-only groups are speedrunning dungeons to farm tokens, and you can’t get into a group unless you’re a thief with high jumps. those tokens get traded for exotic armor, and that exotic armor is salvaged for rare materials. those rare materials start flooding the trading post, and as a result the prices drop, the economy inflates, and suddenly money loses all value.

congratulations, jumping higher just destroyed dungeon runs AND the economy.

Cris Croix.2370:

Isn’t this thread called “Fantasy THIEF skills”? If so, then why do people keep bringing up Assassin’s when that class doesn’t exist in this game? Thieves are NOT Assassin’s, why is that such a hard concept for some people? It seems like more than half of the suggestions in here are based around the assumption that Thieves are Assassins, when in fact, they aren’t. Be more realistic or re-name the thread.

Thieves are assassins, they only named it because of steal and wanted it to be “diffrent” whether you like it or not.

EDIT: Anyway there’s no reason non of those skills won’t work on thieves except for balance reason.

We have one skill that steals anything, we’re more assassins, pirates, duelists and swashbucklers than real thieves.

Not so much a fantasy thief skill but there’s times I’d like Scorpion Wire to be able to pull friendlies.

kash.9213:

Not so much a fantasy thief skill but there’s times I’d like Scorpion Wire to be able to pull friendlies.

waaaaaaaaay too much griefing and misfiring potential. especially griefing.

Cris Croix.2370:

Isn’t this thread called “Fantasy THIEF skills”? If so, then why do people keep bringing up Assassin’s when that class doesn’t exist in this game? Thieves are NOT Assassin’s, why is that such a hard concept for some people? It seems like more than half of the suggestions in here are based around the assumption that Thieves are Assassins, when in fact, they aren’t. Be more realistic or re-name the thread.

LOL, Thieves are Assassins and Assassins are Thieves.

Lan.1968:

Sonic Blow
Hide
Cloak
Venom Splasher
Katarr
Grimtooth
Apply poison

enchant deadly poison.

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

Cris Croix.2370:

Isn’t this thread called “Fantasy THIEF skills”? If so, then why do people keep bringing up Assassin’s when that class doesn’t exist in this game? Thieves are NOT Assassin’s, why is that such a hard concept for some people? It seems like more than half of the suggestions in here are based around the assumption that Thieves are Assassins, when in fact, they aren’t. Be more realistic or re-name the thread.

LOL, Thieves are Assassins and Assassins are Thieves.

Thief [theef]
noun, plural thieves.
a person who steals, especially secretly or without open force; one guilty of theft or larceny.

As·sas·sin [uh-sas-in]
noun, plural assassins.
a murderer, especially one who kills a politically prominent person for fanatical or monetary reasons.

Skills
-Bomb Trap – When triggered a bomb explodes with high knockback
-Go for the Joints – For 2 seconds, all of the user’s attacks ignore toughness

Elite Skill
-Steal Arms – Steal whatever weapons your target has out for 15 seconds. (stolen gear is replaced with things like sticks)(that way the opponent isn’t totally left high and dry)

Traits
-Explosive Exchange – Steal now plants timed explosives on the target. (2 minute cooldown)

Jjiinx.8795:

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

Cris Croix.2370:

Isn’t this thread called “Fantasy THIEF skills”? If so, then why do people keep bringing up Assassin’s when that class doesn’t exist in this game? Thieves are NOT Assassin’s, why is that such a hard concept for some people? It seems like more than half of the suggestions in here are based around the assumption that Thieves are Assassins, when in fact, they aren’t. Be more realistic or re-name the thread.

LOL, Thieves are Assassins and Assassins are Thieves.

Thief [theef]
noun, plural thieves.
a person who steals, especially secretly or without open force; one guilty of theft or larceny.

As·sas·sin [uh-sas-in]
noun, plural assassins.
a murderer, especially one who kills a politically prominent person for fanatical or monetary reasons.

So Thieves in GW2 don’t kill, don’t use force etc. they just hop around and steal stuff? glad you cleared that one up!

Oh wait, we are talking about a fantasy setting and class names which means that they have other boundaries than that of the real world!

Thief, Assassin and Rogue or w.e you name the class will allways be 90% based on the classic Assassin archetype; Stealth, Shadowstep, Poison and Daggers.

P.S: >Implying Arenanet didn’t name the class Thief just to make it feel different and “innovate”.

A sample of PvP skills thieves should have gotten in GW2.

Invisibility is out, burst damage is out, shadow stepping is out, risk-free gameplay is out.

Stealth is in, mind games are in, teamwork is in.

Enjoy.

Utility Skills

Prone Stance (Stealth): Drop to the ground and enter a prone stance reducing movement speed by 50% and removing your name tag. If you remain prone for 10 seconds or more you will enter a hidden state allowing for the use of sneak attacks.

Camouflage Kit (Stealth): Disguise yourself as an environmental object reducing movement speed by 75%. While camouflaged enemy players will not be able to target you, but you can still be attacked. If you remain camouflaged for 10 seconds or more you will enter a hidden state allowing for the use of sneak attacks.

Disguise Kit (Stealth): Disguise yourself as an enemy player. You will appear as a friendly target from a distance but your disguise will be removed if an enemy player gets too close. If you remain disguised for 45 seconds or more you will enter a hidden state allowing for the use of sneak attacks.

Pitfall Trap (Trap): Create a pitfall trap at your feet. Enemies that fall into the trap will become trapped and are unable to move until rescued by a teammate.

Cyanide Pill (Trick): Swallow a cyanide pill and take damage equal to 100% of your health. This defeat does not count as a player kill.

Sleeping Gas Bomb (Trick): Throw a sleeping gas grenade that explodes at target location. Targets that remain in the gas for longer than three second will fall asleep for 20 seconds but will awake early if they take damage or are revived by a teammate. If you are caught in the gas you will also fall asleep. Sleeping targets cannot defend or capture points.

Perfect Touch (Steal): Attempt to steal the equipped armor from a target. If successful the target’s armor will be removed and their armor rating will be reduced to 0. Any damage taken will interrupt the effect. The effects of Perfect Touch persist through death.

Mindrend Venom (Venom): Apply Mindrend Venom to your weapons. Each hit with your weapons applies one charge of Mindrend Venom to your target. If your target receives 25 charges of Mindrend Venom they will begin to hallucinate, seeing things that aren’t really there. The effects of Mindrend Venom last 1 minute. You may only have one applied venom at a time.

Sneak Attacks:

Knowing the Opponent (Sword Main Hand): Study your target while in a hidden state. As long as you have initiative your target will not be able to dodge while within 900 range of you. If you run out of initiative the effects ends.

Backstab (Dagger Main Hand): Deal damage to your target while in a hidden state. If you have an active venom this attack applies 50 charges of that venom to your target.

Kneecapper (Pistol Main Hand): Fire a crippling shot while in a hidden state. For the next 10 seconds your target takes damage whenever they move.

Elite Skills:

Offer You Can’t Refuse (Bribe): Attempt to bribe an enemy player. If the player accepts the bribe their team gains 150 points. However, that player will not be able to target, see, or deal damage to you. If the player refuses the bribe your damage dealing sneak attacks are all instant kills. Cannot be used on players in combat. The effects of this skill persist through death.

Inside Job (Bribe): Attempt to bribe an enemy player. If they accept they receive 50% less damage from all attacks and your steal and trap skills activate 50% faster. If the player refuses as long as you are within 900 range of them their abilities recharge and activate 50% slower. Cannot be used on players in combat. The effects of this skill persist through death.

Basilisk Venom (Venom): Apply basilisk venom to your weapon. Each weapon hit applies 1 charge of basilisk venom to your target. If your target receives 50 charges of basilisk venom they will be turned to stone for 10 seconds. You may only have one applied venom at a time.

@Blazer – i think they renamed it for versatility. long time GW1 assassin, the thief is definitely more versatile.

assassins were purely high dps, no range, all speed classes (unless you went for obscure builds like critical barrage). thieves got new tricks up their sleeves. aside from all the assassin stuff, thieves have access to traps, some of their skills have turned into more support-oriented skills (ohai shadow refuge), and there are more ranged options. stealth is part of the archetype, but wasn’t present on GW1, and steal can be traited for a myriad of different effects.

oh and most importantly, you don’t have to be a glass cannon.

They intentionally did not name or design the Thief class like the Guild Wars 1 Assassin. They are meant to be two completely different classes. Namely, the Thief is capable of a lot more things than Assassin’s ever were.

Although using the dictionary definitions is going a bit too far on the serious side of the fantasy line, it does lend itself to the point I was making. @Blazer: You really need to read those definitions more carefully by the way, as you jumped to conclusions that simply are not written there. Those definitions, although not the ONLY way to describe it, are more of simplistic guidelines to give people a general idea of the priority placed on objectives within those lines of work. No one said that Thieves can’t fight to achieve their goals, simply that its not their speciality.

So, to clear it up a little: Thieves are capable of using force, especially when it forwards their agenda, but don’t even come close to exercising it at the same degree that Assassin’s do. Assassin’s are defined by their excessive use of force, with the killing itself often being their primary objective. Their entire existence revolves around the death of others in one way or another.

Thieves, on the other hand, are rarely(if ever) contracted to kill someone and those deaths are only consequence to the true goal of obtaining a prize for themselves or their client. They revolve around the creation of chaos, disorder, and dissention rather than blatantly slaughtering people for money. Whether they choose to sneak(stealth) to their goal, or stroll through with bravado as a distraction, Thieves are known for their guile and improvisational skills in reaching their final goal without their adversaries realizing they’ve been had. If someone gets in the way of a theft, there’s no telling what a Thief would do to achieve their objective as I’m sure it would depend on the personality of said Larcenist , but no one could put murder outside of the range of possibilities. This does not; in any way, shape, or form; mean that someone’s death is ever the primary goal of a Thief. Don’t forget to note that the definition says, “secretly or without OPEN force,” meaning that force may be used, just not in an obvious or public manner.

F.Y.I. They aren’t based around an “Assassin” archetype, but rather the “Thief” archetype with twists thrown in to differentiate.

Dual Swords
1 skill – left downward slash —> right downward slash (with both swords) --> Piercing stab (cripples 2 secs bleed 5 seconds)
2 skill – Infiltrator’s strike
3 skill – Berzerker’s Aggression (knockdown to target, One single dark red aura shot from the blade, going into one direction, hitting whoever is in the line of fire.)(range 800, 4 initiatives)
4 skill – Absolute Blade – levitates your off hand sword and drive it to the target’s heart causing bleed for 4 secs (while this skill is being used, you cannot use skill 5)(press 4 again to teleport you to the target pulling out your sword, doing additional damage and bleed 4 secs) (900 range, 3 initiative)
5 skill – Assassin’s Thrill – Spiral leap/dash head first to target (doing aoes to nearby foes) the closer you are the more hits it does. 5 hits with 1 finisher double sword stab. (every slash causes bleeding 2 secs) the more bleed stacks the more damage it’ll do, flanking adds 10% more damage. (ranges 500 range)(10 initiatives used)

Dual Throwing knives
1 skill – throw knife (bleed 5 seconds)
2 skill – leap backwards, throwing 3 knives crippling for 3 seconds, and one poison for 3 seconds) 4 initiatives
3 skill – Assassinate – Throw a series of flying daggers (a total hit of 7) to target, crippling for 3 secs (4 initiatives)
4 skill – Chained dagger – roots single target for 2 seconds or has a 2 hit HP (3 initiative)
5 skill – throw dagger to target, teleporting to him (5 initiative)

Cris, I am talking from gameplay perspective, that is why I named gameplay abilities. I don’t care about the small differences between Thief, Rogue and Assassin classes in a phantasy setting. In almost every game these classes have had the core abilities that fit the Assassin: Stealth, Shadowstep and Poisons and the iconic Assassin weapon: Dagger. When it comes to gameplay there is nothing special about the Thief, the Steal is not even a real steal but a conjure ability based on opponent + a free Shadowstep (hint hint). People shouldn’t compare GW1 Assassin with GW2 Thief and say that Thieves are more versatile, that is because GW2 classes are designed to be more versatile and viable than the GW1 classes.

At the end of the day, it has been the Assassin that has defined this archetype in most games, not the Thief, Rogue, Pirate, Scout or w.e

This discussion started because somebody said that people should only name Thief abilities which is freaking hillarious since Thieves are basically Assassins, that is why 80-90% of their abilities are Assassin themed and another reason why that statement is a joke is that the creator of the thread included all the three classes in his original post; Assassin, Thief and Rogue. You know why? because these classes are basically the same.

Longbow/Rifle – Ranged Assassin. I don’t know what skills 1-5 would be, but a mixture of single target, maybe 1 or 2 AoE.

Perhaps you have 1 skill that adds a condition to the target, say bleeding or burning. Then another ability, say explosive shot, that does single target damage -or- if the target is suffering from burning it explodes and causes AoE damage.

I’m a big fan of the Thief series from Looking Glass, so I would love more ranged skills.

Headshot(pistol #4 from stealth) – deals 1.25xthe damage of backstab from the back and stun for 2 seconds.
Reasoning : you cant stealth often with pistol offhand.

Experimental venom (elite) – your next attack deals damage based on how many bleeds are stacked and how many seconds of poison and bleed are left. Their duration are cut in half and deal 2x damage. Further attempts at poisoning, bleeding, or burning the enemy causes it to combust, dealing damage equal to 1/4its intended damage until the remaining conditions are consumed.
Reasoning: to help condition builds out during boss fights. 1/4 damage from a bunch of conditions is better than most peoples conditions doing nothing.

Death blossom (d&d 3) – do an evasive attack over your opponent, striking nearby enemies before vanishing. Each hit causes bleeding. 6 ini cost
Reason : death blossom -> mug -> backstab. Less burst.

Shadowstrike (p&d 3) – stab your foe with a dagger before shadowstepping away and firing 1 shot and vanishing. 6 ini cost
Reasoning : we use shadowstrike to get away but currently, c&d + dodge roll is so much better. So i moved the stealth here. This is sposed to do as much damage as the current c&d because who goes pwr/pre on a p/d?

Flanking strike (s&d 3) – attack your foe with your sword then shadowstep behind them for a dagger strike before vanishing in stealth. The first strike removes a boon and the second strike poisons the enemy. 6 ini cost
Reasoning : we already have a gap closer so i made this more of a damage and stealth move. 1st hit is 1/3 of the current c&d damage while 2nd is 3/4th of c&d. More on why when i get to c&d.

Cloak and dagger (x/d 5) – throw out a shadow cloak around you while delivering a 360 degree slash with your dagger. Evading causes nearby enemies to be confused for 5 seconds. 5 ini cost.
Reasoning : this nerfs c&d mug backstab burst quite a bit and gives a decent aoe option and the much needed defense when aoe-ing.

Black Powder (x/p 5) – Fire a black powder shot under your feet, confusing nearby enemies then blinding them with the smoke cloud. 6 ini cost, 5 sec confusion.
Reasoning : to make up for the change in c&d. This gives you defense and slight damage.

Thats how i would fix the thief class o.o

@SpaceCowboy, Thief with 1200 range weapon, the foum would be filled with whine and nerf threads :p “omg this thief spammed snipaah shot from china and crit me 6k 6k 6k and I died what is this balance? Nerf please!”

Gameplay wise, Thieves are not Assassin’s either. There is a single weapon set that resembles, much less plays, even remotely like an Assassin as defined by the fantasy genre, and that is D/D. The rest of them revolve around controlling an opponent and doing either very flashy(PW, CB, Unload) or very discreet(Stealth openers, Infiltrator’s Arrow, Shadow Shot -and- Strike, Black Powder) things. Skilled Assassin’s do not execute their targets in flashy, obvious ways which allow them to be identified and hunted. Nor do these aforementioned skills, among others, lend themselves to assassinating a target gameplay wise.

Before you go spouting this nonsense about the Assassin archetype again, please go refresh your memory on fantasy history. Daggers, stealth, poisons, and moving through the shadows(literally or figuratively, it matters not) are all things originally attributed to one archetype: Rogues. Assassin’s are not iconic of their daggers, but rather their killing techniques and their ability to do so with whatever weapon they choose.

Thief gameplay is special in that it offers an incredible number of options for movement, deception, and control. They can be built to be gimmicky little one-hit-wonder glass cannons, but that is a single weapon set in a VERY SPECIFIC build that revolves around using 3 utilities(including steal) to amp up a sequence of 2 abilities for 2 shotting an adversary every 45 seconds or so. No other weapon combination available to the Thieves is capable of doing this, so trying to base an argument for them being an assassination class(around this small percentage of all the possible builds out there) is without merit.

If all you use your Steal ability for is the shadowstep, then you are missing out on the amazing utility provided by strategically choosing a target to pilfer. Stealing from Warriors for an Axe(damage), Guardians for a Mace(4 second daze!), or even a Mesmer for the Ecto(All boons) are important decisions that you need to be able to make if you want to use Steal to its full potential.

The D&D Rogue is actually the original archetype that has defined the way that this class plays in this game, among others. As bad as an example as it is, go look at Ragnarok Online. Thieves had the choice of whether to turn into an Assassin or a Rogue when they hit job level 40. They knew well enough to split those two classes, giving each their own unique and iconic sets of abilities.

And lastly, although I already refuted this: The majority of the Thieves abilities are NOT Assassin themed, but rather targeted towards the control of a battlefield, mobility, and deception. There is a small subset, being an EXTREMELY specific build, representing maybe 5-10% of the Thieves total abilities that even hints at the nature of an Assassin. If thats what you choose to play, then so be it. However, that doesn’t change the fact that this class, at its core, is based around more than just killing people. Only a handful of the abilities being suggested are leaning towards that side of things, but people REALLY need to stop with calling this class an Assassin because of a single build.

Cris, very informative post. I mistook those attributes for the Assassin, but you say that they are Rogue attributes. So an Assassin doesn’t use Shadow Arts and Poisons? Where can I read up on this, I like all 3 classes.

@Blazer Hellsing: Yah, but by not having a 1200 range weapon set has not had a unanimous approval from players that the Thief profession is balanced! Since this is a fantasy anyway, let’s imagine a Guild Wars 2 where Thieves have a 1200 range weapon and nobody complains, not even fellow thieves!

Yeah, Ragnarok Online had some pretty cool assassin skills (the katar was an amazing weapon as well), and I really loved the infinite cloaking, but I obviously wouldn’t want it here.

I like that proposed “Kidnap” ability.

Make it both for enemies and friendlies. Get to the target, tag it and shadowstep back with the target.

The main skill I wish we had as Thieves is lock pick. That just seems like a must, and I lock pick for a hobby. Would be neat.

Bladie’s idea is awesome too.

bladie.5084:

Dual Throwing knives
1 skill – throw knife (bleed 5 seconds)
2 skill – leap backwards, throwing 3 knives crippling for 3 seconds, and one poison for 3 seconds) 4 initiatives
3 skill – Assassinate – Throw a series of flying daggers (a total hit of 7) to target, crippling for 3 secs (4 initiatives)
4 skill – Chained dagger – roots single target for 2 seconds or has a 2 hit HP (3 initiative)
5 skill – throw dagger to target, teleporting to him (5 initiative)

Personally, I wish the thief was more thief/burglaresque than assassin style. I think it would be more fun to have blind and stun as more mainstream abilities and damage take a step back. Thieves, to me, should be more of a support/control profession.

[edit] Typos.

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

Cris, very informative post. I mistook those attributes for the Assassin, but you say that they are Rogue attributes. So an Assassin doesn’t use Shadow Arts and Poisons? Where can I read up on this, I like all 3 classes.

Its less a question of ‘if’ they use them, but rather the differences between ‘when’ and ‘how’ they do.

As I said, the entire focus of an Assassin is: Get in, kill the target, and get out; being as subtle possible to avoid detection and retaliation. The tools of their trade encompass anything really, but more so things that are easy to conceal(on their person, or in the environment) so as to prevent anyone from linking them to the scene of the crime. I could definitely see an Assassin readily using poisons to accomplish a mission, especially if it was discreet enough to prevent them being caught(poison on the rim of a glass). The use of Shadow Arts(figuratively and virtually) just makes the job of getting in and out all that much easier and more subtle; for BOTH Thieves and Assassins. Thieves, on the other hand, are better known for their meticulous and calculating use of these techniques; not solely for the kill, but for the advancement of their agenda.

I can personally think of a myriad of uses for poisons: while Assassins usually just choose the deadliest of these to utilize(e.g. Basilisk Venom) for maximum efficiency, Thieves tend to be more open-minded about them. Slowing an opponent to prevent them from reaching an objective or weakening them to help out a teammate to name a few. I feel like Thieves are more geared towards team-play, control, and objectives than the whole -BURSTKILLBURSTKILL- mentality of Assassins. Venom-sharing is a perfect example of a team-oriented Thief/Rogue-like build.

Even figuratively speaking, Thieves tend to enhance the capabilities of the group; through the provision of unique skills like picking locks, disarming traps, sneaking ahead to scout, etc.; in contrast to the all-too-common ‘Lone-Wolf’ style of Assassins who care more about their contract than aiding the progress of a group. This isn’t to say that all Thieves are selfless(theres a good 50/50 split here I’d say) or that all Assassins are selfish, but they are often stereotyped as such in literature. In fact, it wouldn’t be too far-fetched to find a Thief or Assassin abusing a party’s generosity and helping them to the point where they reach their objective, only to backstab and go on their way.

I suppose I’m getting off track here, but you asked I’ve played tons of different games(MMO’s and Single-player RPG’s), read a lot of fantasy novels, browsed more than a few of the D&D game-books, and countless magazine articles; all featuring one or both types of individuals. Not that this makes me an expert in any way, shape, or form, but I’d like to think I’ve got a good portion of the whole picture after drawing from so many different resources. I’d fire up google to look at some D&D info if I were you, seeing as it is a VERY popular medium, for writers and video game designers alike, to base their productions on. Pen-&-Paper RPGs were where it all began as far as I’m concerned and they provide a wealth of information to absorb on this subject, among others. If you have any questions about specifics, I can do my best to answer in a private message… And who knows, maybe we’d both come to a new realization by putting our heads together.

Otso.1267:

The main skill I wish we had as Thieves is lock pick. That just seems like a must, and I lock pick for a hobby. Would be neat.

Bladie’s idea is awesome too.

bladie.5084:

Dual Throwing knives
1 skill – throw knife (bleed 5 seconds)
2 skill – leap backwards, throwing 3 knives crippling for 3 seconds, and one poison for 3 seconds) 4 initiatives
3 skill – Assassinate – Throw a series of flying daggers (a total hit of 7) to target, crippling for 3 secs (4 initiatives)
4 skill – Chained dagger – roots single target for 2 seconds or has a 2 hit HP (3 initiative)
5 skill – throw dagger to target, teleporting to him (5 initiative)

Personally, I wish the thief was more thief/burglaresque than assassin style. I think it would be more fun to have blind and stun as more mainstream abilities and damage take a step back. Thieves, to me, should be more of a support/control profession.

[edit] Typos.

haha thanks. You are right, thieves should be more cunning, invest in burglary, robbery, and many other underhanded method to gaining money illegally. But if they made a thief true to it’s name, then they would be less appealing and you’d have less of a weapon choice. When I think about a thief, it’s all about guns and knives. lol. I think GW2 tried to be original with their profession names but purposely led thieves to the assassin theme. It wouldn’t hurt for sure if there were more weapons given to thieves to be more underhanded and true to their names. You know what I mean? It’s like a guardian being a completely new class/profession from your usual MMORPG, but we all know they’re based off of Paladins/Crusaders lol.

Here’s Mine:

1) Desperado (P/P) – Frontal cone shape attack. Hits up to 5 Targets max / Costs 5 ini
2) Soul Breaker (S/any weapon) – Usable only while in stealth, Dmg is calculated based on opponents def. The higher the def, the higher the dmg. Costs 3 ini
3) Hack N Slash (D/D) – Strikes a single target rapidly for 7 hits. Costs 4 ini.

Utility Skills
1) Steal Weapon (Trick) – Disarm your opponent’s weapon for 1-2 seconds. (CD:30s)
2) Enchant Deadly Poison (Venom) – Enchant deadly poison to your weapon, Increasing attack power by X%. Enemies that get hit by the enchanted weapon will also randomly receive poison condition. Lasts for 20s (CD: 60s)
3) Venom Splasher (Venom) – Turns target into a poison bomb. Target must and have less than 3/4 HP in order to be affected. When the skill is used, a timer appears above the target. If the skill is successful, and the timer reaches 0, the target explodes and creates a poison field for X secs.
4) Compulsion Discount (Passive/Deception) – Enable to purchase items in NPC Shops for 5% discount.