Guild Wars 2

So i’ve been running meta SA d/d for a while now, and just recently started picking up a trickery d/p build by the suggestion of a forum-goer. I noticed that a lot of people here see d/d as more fun than d/p, and I used to be one of them until trying the trickery build. Honestly, after trying d/d again after running d/p for a week or so felt really boring. Pretty much every fight was the same repetitive CnD + backstab + 1 chain and repeat, with little variation between each fight. Even running full zerk, SA d/d still doesn’t feel like it has a lot of risk, and for me it just feels like trickery d/p has better burst thanks to thrill of the crime and lead strikes, more variation since you have more initiative to use on other skills other than 5 and 2, better outplay potential thanks to more interrupts and better out of stealth sustained dps thanks to more blinds + thrill of the crime (again). I guess d/d can be fun when you can troll with zergs while chaining CnD, but in a real fight vs a skilled opponent, I can’t really see the appeal to d/d anymore. I don’t know if its just the “honeymoon phase” of trying a new build, but what your guys’ reasons for playing meta d/d over other builds?

I think that you’re enjoying D/P more because with D/P, you get to vary between 5 useful skills, versus the 3 that D/D has. I find myself playing both builds equally, I play D/D when I want to go around laughing at how I just instagibbed that guy, and D/P when I really want to win.

Stompy.1387:

I think that you’re enjoying D/P more because with D/P, you get to vary between 5 useful skills, versus the 3 that D/D has. I find myself playing both builds equally, I play D/D when I want to go around laughing at how I just instagibbed that guy, and D/P when I really want to win.

that’s basically how I think of it; d/d is better against groups of bad players, d/p is better vs equally skilled players.

D/D is END with new patch!

Eh…D/D can be fun since it you can make a big difference in performance by knowing the timing of your stealths (i.e. staring a CnD while stealthed and having it land as stealth ends to chain into Backstab instead of just backstabbing from stealth).

However, D/P is still often a lot more diverse in gameplay and is overall more powerful (at least in sPvP).

Ok, since you asked for opinions here is mine.

I belive that D/D actually was originally designed for a different playstyle than most people associate it with. I was in my opinion designed as a hybrid weapon set that complements high crit chance and low power with condition damage and on crit effects.
Unfortunately people did not get that and turned the set into a one trick pony, this is understandable to a degree since to make the original design work you would need more vitality than you can usually get (especially with the rampager gear you would want to use for that kind of playstyle).
Also the power creep with ascended gear has blown the efficacy of the one trick way out of proportion, the stat budget at the moment is way to high across the board but especially when it comes to crit damage.

So what people usally call D/D playstyle is more of an accident than intended by the original design.

Bazzoong.7145:

Ok, since you asked for opinions here is mine.

I belive that D/D actually was originally designed for a different playstyle than most people associate it with. I was in my opinion designed as a hybrid weapon set that complements high crit chance and low power with condition damage and on crit effects.
Unfortunately people did not get that and turned the set into a one trick pony, this is understandable to a degree since to make the original design work you would need more vitality than you can usually get (especially with the rampager gear you would want to use for that kind of playstyle).
Also the power creep with ascended gear has blown the efficacy of the one trick way out of proportion, the stat budget at the moment is way to high across the board but especially when it comes to crit damage.

So what people usally call D/D playstyle is more of an accident than intended by the original design.

That’s an interesting perspective, and would explain why d/d has a random bleed stacking skill in its kit. It’s a shame that hybrid builds aren’t very prominent in the meta; it would allow for some nice build diversities.

GW2 forum mentality regarding Thief builds:

D/D – u so cool, because you haz only 3 skills that can do something, but nab when u 10k crit bs on me.

D/P – noooooob, u use all 5 skills, y u perma kiss my back, u kill me w/o bs, 24/7 stealth, nab, l2p, /quit

that’s what I read in thief forum all the time.

I’m not surprised why people choose D/P over D/D.

D/D should be a full power build which is eating people alive if they don’t kite and BS should be an option for quick come in and get out with a kill from groups.

Unfortunately, D/D is broken and and therefore won’t be favored.

D/D SA is the meta only for WvW bads

as I don’t want to stick around forever and reset fights, till I win by some diceroll, I typically avoid going full sa.
I found 10/30/0/0/30 d/d to be quite enjoyable. You got that low cd long range steal, which can strip stuff like stability and protection and that big backstab to toy around with.

Bazzoong.7145:

I belive that D/D actually was originally designed for a different playstyle than most people associate it with. I was in my opinion designed as a hybrid weapon set that complements high crit chance and low power with condition damage and on crit effects.

It was. Then they sledgehammered on crit procs, Death Blossom, and Dancing Dagger. Basically they designed a cool set then nerfed it until it wasn’t cool.

OK I’m confused. Is d/d not cool any more?

ionix.9054:

OK I’m confused. Is d/d not cool any more?

still seems like it is by popular consensus judging by all the thieves I see running it. I’m just confused as to why people praise its playstyle being so compelling when it’s mostly just CnD + BS + rinse and repeat.

DatPieGuy.6540:

Bazzoong.7145:

Ok, since you asked for opinions here is mine.

I belive that D/D actually was originally designed for a different playstyle than most people associate it with. I was in my opinion designed as a hybrid weapon set that complements high crit chance and low power with condition damage and on crit effects.
Unfortunately people did not get that and turned the set into a one trick pony, this is understandable to a degree since to make the original design work you would need more vitality than you can usually get (especially with the rampager gear you would want to use for that kind of playstyle).
Also the power creep with ascended gear has blown the efficacy of the one trick way out of proportion, the stat budget at the moment is way to high across the board but especially when it comes to crit damage.

So what people usally call D/D playstyle is more of an accident than intended by the original design.

That’s an interesting perspective, and would explain why d/d has a random bleed stacking skill in its kit. It’s a shame that hybrid builds aren’t very prominent in the meta; it would allow for some nice build diversities.

Umm, its not random at all IMO, alot of things with thief is damage + condition, look at p/p, sb and p/d all able to do either condi, direct damage or both.

Yes on some weapon sets the condi is stronger or the damage is better, but looking at it from a design pov, thief can do both with almost all weapon sets.

DatPieGuy.6540:

ionix.9054:

OK I’m confused. Is d/d not cool any more?

still seems like it is by popular consensus judging by all the thieves I see running it. I’m just confused as to why people praise its playstyle being so compelling when it’s mostly just CnD + BS + rinse and repeat.

I love d/d d/p for wvw roamingr, it is alot of CnD + BS, but its the type of play style that I love, I love the sneaky hidden killer type of play. Glass cannon and all.

It is just more than CnD and BS tho, thats just the main dps of the build, timed steal, blind, cripple, stealths is all about skill and thats is what I think players like about it.

Bazzoong.7145:

Ok, since you asked for opinions here is mine.

I belive that D/D actually was originally designed for a different playstyle than most people associate it with. I was in my opinion designed as a hybrid weapon set that complements high crit chance and low power with condition damage and on crit effects.

+1

I 100% agree.

I have 2 level 80 Thieves. One (my main) is pure S/P + S/D power base. The other is an Assassin with high crit and on crit effects using D/D + P/P.

Unfortunately people did not get that and turned the set into a one trick pony, this is understandable to a degree since to make the original design work you would need more vitality than you can usually get (especially with the rampager gear you would want to use for that kind of playstyle).

Assassin gear + 30CS + 25Acro + 15Trick + D/D — 30SA are for trolls.

DatPieGuy.6540:

Bazzoong.7145:

Ok, since you asked for opinions here is mine.

I belive that D/D actually was originally designed for a different playstyle than most people associate it with. I was in my opinion designed as a hybrid weapon set that complements high crit chance and low power with condition damage and on crit effects.
Unfortunately people did not get that and turned the set into a one trick pony, this is understandable to a degree since to make the original design work you would need more vitality than you can usually get (especially with the rampager gear you would want to use for that kind of playstyle).
Also the power creep with ascended gear has blown the efficacy of the one trick way out of proportion, the stat budget at the moment is way to high across the board but especially when it comes to crit damage.

So what people usally call D/D playstyle is more of an accident than intended by the original design.

That’s an interesting perspective, and would explain why d/d has a random bleed stacking skill in its kit. It’s a shame that hybrid builds aren’t very prominent in the meta; it would allow for some nice build diversities.

some time ago (after sleight of hand)I ran a 20/20/0/0/30 build that was a hybrid. It was effective in the sense that not everyone knew how to crush a thief at the time, and especially ones that were perma evading. With Improv, and the interrupts available to us (wire, sleight for the build I was using), and hybrid stats (think I was around 6-700condition damage, 60% duration, 2500 power, 16khp and 2300ish armor, 50% crit damage with a 30-40% crit chance), I would have to rebuild it in an editor, but was amusing as hell. Kinda trolly, people weren’t expecting a thief with daggers to use all 5 skills on their bar, and then swap to shortbow and kite around purposely drawing fights out. All it was was surviving trying to bait out utilities and heal (to interrupt, for most classes), and then initiative dumps into backstab>stack bleeds twice>try for another BS… it was much easier playing full condition or full power. But the trolls were strong in this one if that was your aim.

Faux.1937:

DatPieGuy.6540:

ionix.9054:

OK I’m confused. Is d/d not cool any more?

still seems like it is by popular consensus judging by all the thieves I see running it. I’m just confused as to why people praise its playstyle being so compelling when it’s mostly just CnD + BS + rinse and repeat.

I love d/d d/p for wvw roamingr, it is alot of CnD + BS, but its the type of play style that I love, I love the sneaky hidden killer type of play. Glass cannon and all.

It is just more than CnD and BS tho, thats just the main dps of the build, timed steal, blind, cripple, stealths is all about skill and thats is what I think players like about it.

I agree here, unless it is a wam bam thank you mam fight I end up using all 5 skills on the DD bar. Admittedly 3 and 4 considerably less, especially 3, but nothing like jumping over earthshaker or the teleport>CE. any of those telegraphed attacks like that are super easy to time blossom with and you don’t have to worry about their reprisal during the crappy evade frame/aftercast because they are in aftercast as well. beats burning the dodge sometimes.
4 however, though still my favorite thrown projectile in the game, lost a lot of it’s oomph with the damage nerf long ago, I guess it was warranted. It is still usefull as all hell barring warriors with cleansing ire/melandru/-%condi food, etc. the cripple is nice anyway, with any sort of decent condi duration for yourself it’s dandy!

Shouldn’t be playing D/D SA.

D/D is a 25+/30/x/x/x set. Difficult, grueling at times, but out of playing all of the professions and all of the weapon sets and a ton of builds, it is in my opinion one of the most rewarding to pull off. D/D’s 3 and 4 are situational. Extremely so. That said, getting an on demand AOE cripple and another evade can be huge depending on your target. I personally know I’ve dodged a lot of devastating attacks with death blossom. Notably other thieves trying to stab me, and utilizing the blossom to get behind them and stab their backs :P

D/P is strong because it has get-out-of-jail-free cards (permastealth and blind field) and a very high fault tolerance when combined with SA. The damage is still pretty strong, but it can also be played well with good use of headshot. The set is straightforward but diverse and easy to use.

Come to the dark side.

30/10/0/0/30 Carrion/Rampager gear with poison utils, earth sigil and withdraw/basilisk/Runes of Lyssa.

Compleeeetely different playstyle. 20+ bleeds on a target + poison, torment, weakness, immobilize and decent physical damage on top. This is what anet was thinking of when they made the D/D set.

Lorelei.3918:

Come to the dark side.

30/10/0/0/30 Carrion/Rampager gear with poison utils, earth sigil and withdraw/basilisk/Runes of Lyssa.

Compleeeetely different playstyle. 20+ bleeds on a target + poison, torment, weakness, immobilize and decent physical damage on top. This is what anet was thinking of when they made the D/D set.

Its not the developers that decide how class should be played, but players. D/D has CnD that opens up backstab. It wasn’t created for 333 spam.

or 222 spam? Don’t hate, Karolis.

Besides I do use my other skills.. CnD to stomp and escape. Heart seeker as gap closer and on people who are low hp (I have 2k power, even if they don’t always crit HS still hurts) and whenever I get feathers I stealth and do a back stab (usually crits around 3.5k). I also use my short bow when the enemy aoe is too heavy and also as escape tool.

I main a necro, so going to this is like night and day. I’m having way too much fun with this build.

Lorelei.3918:

or 222 spam? Don’t hate, Karolis.

Besides I do use my other skills.. CnD to stomp and escape. Heart seeker as gap closer and on people who are low hp (I have 2k power, even if they don’t always crit HS still hurts) and whenever I get feathers I stealth and do a back stab (usually crits around 3.5k). I also use my short bow when the enemy aoe is too heavy and also as escape tool.

I main a necro, so going to this is like night and day. I’m having way too much fun with this build.

That’s not the dark side that’s the the shy purple with a hint of green side.

On a more serious note, you would do probably better with ignoring crit alltoghether and useing full carrion gear, the damage from BS and HS below 25% will be enough to complement the conditions and utility from trickery I tend to use stuff like this in spvp and on my “off-thief”. It is great for killing other thieves

To make the playstyle I meant in my 1st post and which I think was the original design of the set work you would have to get an equal spread of crit chance, crit damage, vitality and condition damage. Getting that would need a lot of different gear in the mix, and as far as I see it, if it comes to ascended trinkets you will not be able to get that equal spread.

“I found 10/30/0/0/30 d/d to be quite enjoyable. You got that low cd long range steal, "

How do you handle condis?

Stompy.1387:

I play D/D when I want to go around laughing at how I just instagibbed that guy

TY for being an honest thief! Love that you put it as instagibbed since most on the forums won’t admit it’s just that fast.

Usually i open with d/d, if the enemy do a lot of damage or can evade my CnD, i swap to d/p then i kill ‘em, or just run away :P
I don’t use SB unless i join a zerg to get some champ loot.