Guild Wars 2

Hey all,

Fairly new to the thief (level 70 something) and still trying to get my legs under me in WvW. Solo roaming I generally don’t have many issues unless I run into a exotic’d out 80 or anything about 2 other players. My question is really what to do in a Z vs. Z situation. I could just spam cluster bomb I suppose, but that’s not really a whole lot of fun. I have tried being tactical and stealthily make it to the enemies back line and harass them but more often than not I wind up CC’d, focus fired, and subsequently dead. This might just be a combination of gear and skill issues. So my question goes out to the exotic’d 80 thieves out there. Does this style of play get more feasible as you gear up, or are you just there for the cluster bomb spam?

Thieves are a scout and distraction class.

Run into there zerg and run away, take half the zerg with you, they all hate thieves.

I like to run into the zerg, cnd off random targets until I get to last guy of the zerg and then start killing them off 1 by 1 from behind them.

It’s pretty fun.

As they said thie fis not a zerg vs. zerg class…so yes either you hang back or cluster bomb (extremely boring but yet successful) or daggerstorm in and thru the zerg…cnd and pick targets that wonder off…

I feel your pain though as WvWvW is 90% zergfest…

part of it is you being up leveled. honestly, zerg fights are not where we are at our best. short bow’s cluster bomb hurts, but at range takes a while to arrive, trick shot works well if you can get inside 900 range without being melted. that said if you can get into the enemy zerg there is plenty you can do. drop caltrops from stealth into the enemies front line. burst someone down, get out and do it again, point blank cluster bomb with signet of malice up. just don’t try to enter the zerg from the front. if you really feel like doing some damage, and have some friends/guild members on, you can stealth yourself and 4 others with shadow refuge, sprint into the enemy zerg, and open up on full AoE burst. you can use signet of malice, stealth into the enemy zerg, drop caltrops, then dagger storm for massive damage while healing for large amounts. just stealth out when dagger storm ends. you will die the second someone thinks to rip stability off of you though. one big thing is until you get more experience, try not to run into a zerg v zerg fight full glass cannon.

Until you are 80 in exotics I would not recommend skating the backlines of zergs, with one exception (this is of course my personal opinion).

P/D condition build.

It is extremely easy to stealth off of CnD as has been stated above, and P mainhand allows you to keep distance. The condition damage will mitigate their armor/protections and allow you to be doing damage even while stealthed.

You will still not be any good against a guardian or ele or necro due to their condi removals, but pick other up leveled targets and you should do fine.

Also, condition build can give you nice “exotics” fast, the Carrion Duelist outfit is 79 exotic, and goes for a steal on the TP, only two pieces are above a gold (1.5g is highest), the rest are slightly more expensive than 80 rares. The 79 exotic is only slightly worse than the 80.

You have three options:

1. Spam Cluster Bomb

2. Take down single targets

3. Stealth → Go to the middle of enemy zerg → Signet of Malice Passive + Caltrops + Dagger Storm → Stealth → Run the hell out → Profit

Hmmm, I hadn’t thought of doing that combo into the middle a zerg…I have gotten a dagger storm or two off and gotten away before but I hadn’t though of signet of malice and caltrops. That’s pretty solid. Thanks guys. I also like the idea of stealthing a few strong melee AoE allies (guardians and warriors) and running into the middle of the pack. That could do some real damage and force them to stop paying attention to the front lines.

Thanks again everyone that should help out immensely to keep the zerg boredom down.

If you are going to go into the middle of a zerg and caltrops/ldb, consider using the slot skill Shadow Step, do your combo, and then shadow return if/when you are focused and/or stunned.

In mass fights I use cluster bomb blast finisher most of the time while cleaving with my sword which is great when quickness goes off. I’ll also pan around looking for prime targets to spike or harass, or daze if they’re operating siege or daze plus boon rip if they’re a large source of buffs for their squad.

what i do in zerg v zerg is i run around them and get to the tail end. try to kill one as fast as i could then get out of there. and repeat the process. i always make sure i have my shadow step ready before i get in in case i get cc’d. feels like a real assassin.

brunohstein.9038:

You have three options:

1. Spam Cluster Bomb

2. Take down single targets

3. Stealth -> Go to the middle of enemy zerg -> Signet of Malice Passive + Caltrops + Dagger Storm -> Stealth -> Run the hell out -> Profit

These are the best ways to contribute to your zerg but I find that it’s just not as effective as using my other classes. When I play my thief in WvW I always roam, to inflict disproportionate damage on the enemy with my one character. Thieves pay for being good at roaming with poor support skills.

Don’t forget to Scorpion-Wire downed oponents into your zerg, thus granting their ultimate demise and the frustration of their revivers.

Kyrion.2749:

Don’t forget to Scorpion-Wire downed oponents into your zerg, thus granting their ultimate demise and the frustration of their revivers.

Hahahaha, that’s priceless.

Yes, scorpion wire is great if you know you’re coming up into a group battle. Pick a dangerous target, call it out to your team and tear them to pieces after you pull them, always fun.

The bow works well for just general group-battles, but you can also sneak behind the zerg and pick off targets in melee range, forcing some players to turn their attention away from the front lines.

They’re kind of meh in zergs. I would like to see 20 thieves using daggerstorm in a zerg though.

You have some pretty amazing zerg-moving potential with a caltrops+daggerstorm rush, and its largely the most effective tactic on condition builds.

Barring that bomb, thieves are best employed in zerg fights by policing the perimeter of the fight, which helps to either break up the enemy zerg in to bite-sized chunks, or scares them further in to their own stack where they are easier to AoE for your allies.

Also, you are commonly the best weapon against other thieves trying to do the same job, and I often find myself locked in a duel with an enemy thief in the middle of zerg fights while the both of us are attempting to simultaneously do our job and prevent the opposing thief from doing theirs.

These sorts of fights tend to go largely unbothered as the thief’s allies, once they see that the two high-mobility stealth equipped thieves are keeping one another occupied generally tend to go after easier targets in the zerg. It’s a really fun part of the thief meta in WvW I think.

First of all you need to understand there are different types of zergs. So how to best play vs a zerg will vary depending on what kind of a zerg you are running, and what kind of zergs you are running into.

In T1 for example there are some zergs that are just simply a mass of people working together to try and pull off an objective. These are normally pug based no real command presence and very little if any structure to them. You can probably get away with fighting in the middle of these zergs as long as you are not glass cannon geared. You may even be somewhat useful either by being melee and picking off high value targets or stragglers on the edges. Or by running with a shortbow and dropping poison and clusters on people. However if you run into more structured guild based zergs that run with a lot of CC it is probably best that you stay on the outside of the fight at all times. In these groups 1 CC is all it takes to turn you into a free rally for the enemy zerg. Thieves are just too squishy even if you are full soldiers gear. We mitigate damage by avoiding it not absorbing it.

Now I have seen some thieves do well using signet of malice and spamming cluster bomb and what not but honestly these thieves are probably being carried a lot by their group make up. Lots of guardians giving stability and protection. Lots of CC with knockdowns/backs stuns ect…. and these groups generally don’t stop to fight they run right through their targets which helps the thieves take limited damage.

As a thief you can pick your battles and you can fight people on your grounds. If you know you are going to be facing a very AoE spam heavy team and you know you are going to take bunch of damage if you are going to be fighting people its best to just switch to that shortbow and start firing away. Better to do limited damage and be only somewhat effective than dead on the ground and a free rally for your enemies.