Guild Wars 2

i took a break for about 1month, now leaderboard is out. any new stuff for thief except d/d burst or general burst build?
or should i wait for another big pvp patch SOON?

I don’t know how long you’ve been away but the burst is still there but there was allot of nerfing lately and no buffs to compensate so…

yeah come again SOON

Thief will probably never be competitive too little defense with very little to compensate.

Throw in the nerfs that will continue to happen to keep the casuals/bads happy in
WvW… yeah…

It really is not looking good.
They hinted strongly at a great number of buffs before the last patch, but we got nothing but some pretty hardcore nerfs without any warning or real justification.
They did warn us of one nerf which was frankly quite justified, but they didn’t even go with that one.
You might think we’ll be getting those buffs next month, but they’re already talking about nerfing us yet again.

appreciated the effort to be objective. thx. i will wait till PW will rule the dps metagame.

I think that people just haven’t found the right build for themselves yet. Personally, I like the 0/0/20/30/20 spec, which works with just about any weapon set (like ele’s 0/10/0/30/30 spec), although I like it most with D/P. Dasorine says that thieves have too little defense, but this spec has plenty of it, with stealth and evades on top.

To balance that out, I typically run zerker gear. The result? An insanely balanced thief that has lots of survivability while maintaining very nice damage.

I want to see more people trying out specs like this in the future. Currently, the two main camps for thief theorycrafting seem to focus around bursting or conditions. I’d like to see a new camp form, one that discusses the phenomenon of the “bunker thief” in more depth.

Arganthium.5638:

I think that people just haven’t found the right build for themselves yet. Personally, I like the 0/0/20/30/20 spec, which works with just about any weapon set (like ele’s 0/10/0/30/30 spec), although I like it most with D/P. Dasorine says that thieves have too little defense, but this spec has plenty of it, with stealth and evades on top.

To balance that out, I typically run zerker gear. The result? An insanely balanced thief that has lots of survivability while maintaining very nice damage.

I want to see more people trying out specs like this in the future. Currently, the two main camps for thief theorycrafting seem to focus around bursting or conditions. I’d like to see a new camp form, one that discusses the phenomenon of the “bunker thief” in more depth.

in depth build please. logging now gw2 to test your build. please

Shukran.4851:

Arganthium.5638:

I think that people just haven’t found the right build for themselves yet. Personally, I like the 0/0/20/30/20 spec, which works with just about any weapon set (like ele’s 0/10/0/30/30 spec), although I like it most with D/P. Dasorine says that thieves have too little defense, but this spec has plenty of it, with stealth and evades on top.

To balance that out, I typically run zerker gear. The result? An insanely balanced thief that has lots of survivability while maintaining very nice damage.

I want to see more people trying out specs like this in the future. Currently, the two main camps for thief theorycrafting seem to focus around bursting or conditions. I’d like to see a new camp form, one that discusses the phenomenon of the “bunker thief” in more depth.

in depth build please. logging now gw2 to test your build. please

Check my sig, I’ll probably write an updated post in a sec for it.

Also, you can swap SA I with Shadow’s Embrace for Condition Removal. I just like SA I because it’s fun.

no armor&weaps sigils
no amulet.
fix it pls

Shukran.4851:

no armor&weaps sigils
no amulet.
fix it pls

I know, that’s why I’m making a new post.

Lemme just link to the build directly: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlUmiP3eS6E95EBniiaUPFfdsdPuqV1KA;TEAg0A

There, that’s the PvP build.

EDIT: also, I typically just use Sigils of Force, simply because they’re the easiest to work with, are reliable, and give me a much-needed damage boost. Outside of that, all I can suggest for runes are anything that gives you additional crits and power.

I can’t say that I go too much into depth in these builds, as you can probably tell, but they do work well, and, theoretically, they should.

They’ve mentioned adding some kind of boon hate mechanic to the thief profession at some point in the future as well as giving greater mobility skills other weapons sets. I think the profession will see some buffs in the future, but i doubt it’s going to be soon.

‘Bunker’ builds have been around since launch for thief also, usually with 30 in shadow arts for more healing in stealth and sometimes 15-20 in acrobatics for more initiative and dodging. The problem is there pretty significant loss in dps. Something like a 10/30/30/0/0 still offers good damage but, with reduced burst damage, the usefulness of these builds in spvp and tpvp is limited, especially when compared with other professions.

The problem is all our defense comes from evading the damage be it via dodging, stealthing and hoping the enemy doesn’t just keep attacking or trying to blind constantly.

All of which are finite even in the most evade orientated build there will be times when you’ve blown them all or you’ve simply been immobilized.

Compared to anyone elses actual damage reduction which they get on top of evasion and can often keep up fairly permenately and such well… we just aren’t in that good a position defense wise, to make up for that we are supposedly more lethal but even that often equates to slightly lower then some and they are still thinking of nerfing it even further.

In general fighting we are fine, heck in low tier we are fairly potent but when it comes to truly competitive fights we are going to start falling behind against those that have more favourable mechanics and design.

Alex.6940:

They’ve mentioned adding some kind of boon hate mechanic to the thief profession at some point in the future as well as giving greater mobility skills other weapons sets. I think the profession will see some buffs in the future, but i doubt it’s going to be soon.

‘Bunker’ builds have been around since launch for thief also, usually with 30 in shadow arts for more healing in stealth and sometimes 15-20 in acrobatics for more initiative and dodging. The problem is there pretty significant loss in dps. Something like a 10/30/30/0/0 still offers good damage but, with reduced burst damage, the usefulness of these builds in spvp and tpvp is limited, especially when compared with other professions.

… Which is why we run full zerker. c:

Arganthium.5638:

… Which is why we run full zerker. c:

25/30/0/0/15 builds tend to run full zerker too except they get 250 more power, 5% more damage with daggers and extra burst damage from mug :P

Alex.6940:

Arganthium.5638:

… Which is why we run full zerker. c:

25/30/0/0/15 builds tend to run full zerker too except they get 250 more power, 5% more damage with daggers and extra burst damage from mug :P

But they die near instantly.

Here, perhaps, is a bit of a more complete build:
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.1|8.1g.a7.a.1g.a7|5.1g.a7|1n.a7.1g.a7.1n.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7|2s.d13.2s.d13.31j.d16.2s.d13.31j.d16.2v.d13|0.0.k15.u29a.k37|2e.0|57.5a.5b.5c.5w|e

I did BS some of the stuff, like food… But overall, I think that that should be a pretty good sketch of what the final build looks like.

(note that the coat and helmet are both knight’s, everything else in terms of armor is zerker)

How do you like the build, Das?

It really has little to do with your build; it’s exactly like Dasorine said above:

Thieves are exceptionally weak defensively, and that’s about it. They are at or near average everywhere else.

Einlanzer.1627:

It really has little to do with your build; it’s exactly like Dasorine said above:

Thieves are exceptionally weak defensively, and that’s about it. They are at or near average everywhere else.

/sigh

That’s completely wrong. It’s like telling me that a bunker guardian has the same defensive capabilities as a GC guardian, that a Minion Master Necro has the same defense as any other necro. It’s just not true, not in the least bit, and if you believe otherwise, then you simply have not played a defense-based thief build yet.

^ He is right though.

Arganthium.5638:

Einlanzer.1627:

It really has little to do with your build; it’s exactly like Dasorine said above:

Thieves are exceptionally weak defensively, and that’s about it. They are at or near average everywhere else.

/sigh

That’s completely wrong. It’s like telling me that a bunker guardian has the same defensive capabilities as a GC guardian, that a Minion Master Necro has the same defense as any other necro. It’s just not true, not in the least bit, and if you believe otherwise, then you simply have not played a defense-based thief build yet.

While someone built to bunker will have more defense than someone of the same profession that isn’t built to bunker they will both have access to the same defensive measures in general (GC guardian get access to protection and aegis just like a bunker one) the difference being the amount between them.

That doesn’t change the fact that those defensive measures are much sturdier and more reliable, specially in high end competitive play, than say stealth, blinds and evasions.

Dasorine.1964:

Arganthium.5638:

Einlanzer.1627:

It really has little to do with your build; it’s exactly like Dasorine said above:

Thieves are exceptionally weak defensively, and that’s about it. They are at or near average everywhere else.

/sigh

That’s completely wrong. It’s like telling me that a bunker guardian has the same defensive capabilities as a GC guardian, that a Minion Master Necro has the same defense as any other necro. It’s just not true, not in the least bit, and if you believe otherwise, then you simply have not played a defense-based thief build yet.

While someone built to bunker will have more defense than someone of the same profession that isn’t built to bunker they will both have access to the same defensive measures in general (GC guardian get access to protection and aegis just like a bunker one) the difference being the amount between them.

That doesn’t change the fact that those defensive measures are much sturdier and more reliable, specially in high end competitive play, than say stealth, blinds and evasions.

Sure, both have the same initial base resources to them, I just think it’s wrong to classify thieves overall as having low toughness; many thieves focus specifically on more “bunker-type” builds.

Arganthium.5638:

Dasorine.1964:

Arganthium.5638:

Einlanzer.1627:

It really has little to do with your build; it’s exactly like Dasorine said above:

Thieves are exceptionally weak defensively, and that’s about it. They are at or near average everywhere else.

/sigh

That’s completely wrong. It’s like telling me that a bunker guardian has the same defensive capabilities as a GC guardian, that a Minion Master Necro has the same defense as any other necro. It’s just not true, not in the least bit, and if you believe otherwise, then you simply have not played a defense-based thief build yet.

While someone built to bunker will have more defense than someone of the same profession that isn’t built to bunker they will both have access to the same defensive measures in general (GC guardian get access to protection and aegis just like a bunker one) the difference being the amount between them.

That doesn’t change the fact that those defensive measures are much sturdier and more reliable, specially in high end competitive play, than say stealth, blinds and evasions.

Sure, both have the same initial base resources to them, I just think it’s wrong to classify thieves overall as having low toughness; many thieves focus specifically on more “bunker-type” builds.

Yes, and they’re worse at it than other professions due to game’s lowest health, medium armor, and a lack of compensatory skills. They don’t really get anything in return either.

Einlanzer.1627:

Arganthium.5638:

Dasorine.1964:

Arganthium.5638:

Einlanzer.1627:

It really has little to do with your build; it’s exactly like Dasorine said above:

Thieves are exceptionally weak defensively, and that’s about it. They are at or near average everywhere else.

/sigh

That’s completely wrong. It’s like telling me that a bunker guardian has the same defensive capabilities as a GC guardian, that a Minion Master Necro has the same defense as any other necro. It’s just not true, not in the least bit, and if you believe otherwise, then you simply have not played a defense-based thief build yet.

While someone built to bunker will have more defense than someone of the same profession that isn’t built to bunker they will both have access to the same defensive measures in general (GC guardian get access to protection and aegis just like a bunker one) the difference being the amount between them.

That doesn’t change the fact that those defensive measures are much sturdier and more reliable, specially in high end competitive play, than say stealth, blinds and evasions.

Sure, both have the same initial base resources to them, I just think it’s wrong to classify thieves overall as having low toughness; many thieves focus specifically on more “bunker-type” builds.

Yes, and they’re worse at it than other professions due to game’s lowest health, medium armor, and a lack of compensatory skills. They don’t really get anything in return either.

Really? Let’s see:
-High DPS
-Best mobility in the game
-Second best versatility while in battle (next only to ele, of course)
-Best weapon system (initiative)
-Stealth
-Blinds left and right
-Some of the most diverse builds (something a class like the ele lacks, esp. with how commonplace X/X/X/30/30 is for them)
-Options for players who want to do either condition damage or direct damage, as well as good options for having a mix of the two
-Thief version of parkour (Shortbow’s Infiltrator’s Arrow allows you to fly up and down cliffs, weave like nobody’s business, blind with shadowstep to go right in your opponent’s face and mince them with your blades, jump across certain gaps, and so much more)
-Most aggressive profession in the game

Now, for the past few months, one of my jobs, as a thief, has been to discover some of the hardiest, craziest, most unique builds that are not only playable, but, I think, could become the new thief metagame. The past two/three months, I’ve been playing the D/P build listed in my signature almost exclusively, and, I have to say- to me, it’s like what the x/x/x/30/30 spec is to the ele. The build works with just about any weapon set, is crazy survivable, and brings together some of the best things about the thief and mashes them together into one solid build. It’s the 0/0/20/30/20 spec, which, with the proper gear (listed in previous comments), is extremely balanced and does substantially high damage. To me, it’s practically the version of the thief’s “bunker build”, giving it high survivability but still great damage. Actually, to me, it’s kind of like a standard DPS guardian on steroids. It has about the same survivability, but has some of the things that standard guards can never have, like higher damage, insane mobility, wonderful flexibility, and- of course- stealth.

The thief’s lack of defense is easily made up for by the right build, and as people shift away from extremely aggressive but somewhat weaker thief builds and move to more bunker-type builds, the thief will regain popularity and respect among all classes, and will be considered much more competitive than it currently is.

Hey Arg,

your build looks interesting.. how is the burst and sustained dmg though..? without traits in the crit + power lines.. im reluctant to try it.

i have always been lazy in switching traits back and forth.. preferably i want a build i can use for PVP and PVE… (even if it costs pve dps a little)

iNaddict.8021:

Hey Arg,

your build looks interesting.. how is the burst and sustained dmg though..? without traits in the crit + power lines.. im reluctant to try it.

i have always been lazy in switching traits back and forth.. preferably i want a build i can use for PVP and PVE… (even if it costs pve dps a little)

One of the things that I make sure to include with my build, for PvP, is zerker amulet. That means that I’m getting Toughness, Healing, and Vits from traits, and power and prec from gear. That’s PvP. For WvW/PvE, I usually run all zerker except for one or two items (typically, a heal/toughness-type coat and something else- your decision). For example, in my current build, I run

- Zerker Helmet
- Zerker pants
- Zho’s Coat (+Power, +Healing, +Toughness)
- Ascended Amulet (can’t find it on wiki, but it basically gives you the same buffs that zerker gear gives you)
- Zerker shoulders

And then some underleveled kitten that I only have because I can’t afford anything else. :P anyways, the build works absolutely spectacularly; I love it. So, to balance out the build, I run full zerker with a bit of Toughness and Healing thrown in every once in a while. The result? Very nice damage that still maintains the same survivability from before.

Gear that you’ll want to look at includes Zerker, Valkyrie, Knight, and Cavalier. Preferably Zerker and Knight, and something that gives you some Healing Power.

we’re not really that high on DPS or burst, others have the option to far surpass us in both those aspects, we are at best “above average”

We also don’t have the best mobility, we have GOOD mobility but not the best, I believe that title still belongs to the elementalists.

As for versatility, again people like engineers and such have better overall versatility, we are at best above average again.

Initiative is about the worst weapon system in the game outside of the ability to utilize one skill repeatedly, everyone else gets far more skill uses back to back than a thief.

Stealth doesn’t work that well in competitive play as once players have learnt how it works its incredibly easy to counter almost completely, add to the fact it gives no real mechanical advantage (no damage reduction etc) means its far below that of say protection.

Blinds I have to admit are great, only down side is there for 1 hit only and need constant application, application by moves that do no real damage which has a big effect on our damage even more.

The rest of the stuff is at best flavour and does nothing to actually make up for the shortcomings specially as most of its not unique to a thief.

Yes a thief can build defensively but even if they go all out bunker they are still going to be far FAR behind basically any other class that decides to do the same and in return for this lack of defense we have some mechanics that utterly fail to be anything but negatives in competitive conditions and pigeonhole us into pub stomping hotjoins and WvW farming.

Couple with the fact all out damage is balanced down fairly far below everyone else because of the supposed advantage they all give… well we just aren’t that well set up for competitive, Im sure there will be some thieves that will be able to do ok even with all these advantages but ok isn’t good and at some point they will come to a roadblock that they simply cannot pass either because of the dodgy mechanics and balance of the thief or because of further nerfs for WvW and hotjoin.

tried your build. probably im too used to d/d burst. but really. i do not so much dmg for the squishy class i am. maybe im not used to the build.
btw right now thief is unplayable till new patches. so thx and cya soon

Have you tried a 10/30/30/0/0 build? Not quite the dps as a full GC build, but 30 in shadow arts adds a huge amount of survivability if you use your stealths well. 10 stacks of might from shadow refuge with backstab+mug damage offers some significant burst damage too.

Pistol off hand also provides some great tools for reducing damage with black powder for melee attackers and shadow shot for gap closers. It’s far superior to d/d against most professions imo. Head shot can also be very powerful, but this requires some practice and good insight into what your opponent is going to do to be used to its potential imo.

Alex.6940:

Have you tried a 10/30/30/0/0 build? Not quite the dps as a full GC build, but 30 in shadow arts adds a huge amount of survivability if you use your stealths well. 10 stacks of might from shadow refuge with backstab+mug damage offers some significant burst damage too.

Pistol off hand also provides some great tools for reducing damage with black powder for melee attackers and shadow shot for gap closers. It’s far superior to d/d against most professions imo. Head shot can also be very powerful, but this requires some practice and good insight into what your opponent is going to do to be used to its potential imo.

last time i used daily that build was in august/september. can u give me more data on build pls? traits, runes,sigils, weaps etc etc

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAV4alUmiPHdy9E95Ey2jKUn4JuHOFT1UaFoJA;TsAg0Cvo4ywlgLLXOukctoYYxuAA Is roughly what i run when i run this spec in spvp. Obviously you can switch traits around to your liking, such as getting 2 initiative when going into stealth or 100% crit chance from stealth, although i think executioner provides more damage overall for the playstyle of d/p or shortbow. The build focuses on longer fights however, and you can’t expect to quickly burst down most professions from full health as you may be able to with a glass cannon build.

A good source of burst damage however is black powder followed by heart seeker then, mid way through the heart seeker animation, steal to your opponent to deal mug damage and subsequently land the heartseeker and stealth before using backstab. Alternatively hitting blinding powder then hit backstab and mid way through the animation steal to the opponent to deal mug+ backstab damage if you want to land the damage more reliably.

The build is quite well rounded and use of blinds and stuns with the healing of shadow’s rejuvenation will allow you to stand toe-toe against just about any build. The reduced dps however will make certain builds difficult to near impossible to finish though, such as bunker ele’s.

Alex.6940:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAV4alUmiPHdy9E95Ey2jKUn4JuHOFT1UaFoJA;TsAg0Cvo4ywlgLLXOukctoYYxuAA Is roughly what i run when i run this spec in spvp. Obviously you can switch traits around to your liking, such as getting 2 initiative when going into stealth or 100% crit chance from stealth, although i think executioner provides more damage overall for the playstyle of d/p or shortbow. The build focuses on longer fights however, and you can’t expect to quickly burst down most professions from full health as you may be able to with a glass cannon build.

A good source of burst damage however is black powder followed by heart seeker then, mid way through the heart seeker animation, steal to your opponent to deal mug damage and subsequently land the heartseeker and stealth before using backstab. Alternatively hitting blinding powder then hit backstab and mid way through the animation steal to the opponent to deal mug+ backstab damage if you want to land the damage more reliably.

The build is quite well rounded and use of blinds and stuns with the healing of shadow’s rejuvenation will allow you to stand toe-toe against just about any build. The reduced dps however will make certain builds difficult to near impossible to finish though, such as bunker ele’s.

valkyrie amulet?

Shukran.4851:

valkyrie amulet?

Beserker amulet with valkyrie jewel; i prefer the extra toughness over the slightly higher crit chance. There’s little difference either way tbh though.