Guild Wars 2

You all know by now that the common 10/30/30/0/0 and 0/30/30/10/0 dagger/dagger specs have suffered from the last patch.
This is what I use now to compensate for the loss in damage.
*Valk armor and weapons ( Had to shelf some pvt gears as am sure many of you have)
*Zerk trinkets

*traits: 0/30/25/15/0 or should i say 0/6/5/3/0 (this also works as well with the standard 0/30/30/10/0 build, the reason i went 15 in acrobatics is because I love the extra dodge and it suits my playstyle more. So its up to you.)

-> Critical strikes tree: Signets of power / Signet use / Hidden killer
->Shadow arts tree: Cloaked in shadow / Shadow’s embrace. ( and shadow’s rejuvenation if you’re running the 0/30/30/10/0 version)
->Acrobatics tree: Power of inertia

Utilities: Infiltrator’s signet/ shadow refuge/ shadowstep.

• IF you feel like you don’t need the 5 stacks from infiltrator’s signet you can switch the signet traits to any traits you like and drop the signet for another utility you feel comfortable with.

*Sigils: 1. Dagger/Dagger:Force and air for maximum burst.
2. Shortbow: Bloodlust, the second one is anything you feel comfortable with, I went for bloodlust and air.

*Runes: Runes of strength.
1): +25 Power
(2): +10% Might Duration
(3): +50 Power
(4): 15% Might duration; 25% chance when struck to gain Might for 10 seconds. (Cooldown: 5s)
(5): +100 Power
(6): +20% might duration; +7% damage while under the effects of Might.

Pre patch these runes were bugged, but now they are fixed and give 7% damage (under the effect of might). Obviously with this build you’re gonna keep a high number of might stacks from 25 in shadow arts and power of inertia trait, and they’re gonna stick around for longer with 60% increased might duration.

The added power from the might stacks + the 7% damage increase from the runes seems like the best idea for me to compensate for the crit damage nerf.

*There is a food that gives you might on dodge and 40% endurance regen which works well with this build. I still run power foods though.

*Always make sure to farm bloodlust (and guard stacks if you have them) to make sure you have every bit of power you can obtain, it will boost your damage quite a lot. you can place bloodlust on shortbow since you can equit two sigils on it now.

Good hunting teefs.

This looks good, but I think the only thing that hurts is the fact that some of us have to not use ..Traveler’s runes. That’s 60g we “wasted” -_-

I had to regear too, had some pvt and cavalier gears. So yeah I feel ye.

Unfortunatly travler runes won’t cut it for the common d/d spec anymore, some might go for signet of shadows. As for me am used to not having movement speed boost, I actually never needed it.

Wow. Someone came to the same conclusions I did. Glad you already did some testing on it too though!

Thanks for putting this up. As a new Thief, this is valueable info!

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Thanks for putting this up. As a new Thief, this is valueable info!

I’m sorry and glad you didn’t experience the class in it’s prime: sorry you didn’t get a taste for what it was like, glad you have no taste to lust after for an eternity

So I tried this out last night in PvP and it definitely is a great new balanced build. It pairs up extremely well with warriors nearby who hand out might like candy now. At one point I lookef down at my buff bar and realized I was maintaining 12-17 stacks by accident.

Had some nice backstabs even against classes tanky builds.

Glad you like it maugetarr, I’ve been testing it in spvp too and most of the time I too maintain 12-17 might stacks, which makes me backstab for a good a mount of damage. It’s not bad at all for spvp.

But this is more of a wvw build to make up for the crit damage nerf, I still like trickery more for spvp mainly because 4 seconds revealed makes d/d a bit slower than trickery builds.

Omri.8196:

Glad you like it maugetarr, I’ve been testing it in spvp too and most of the time I too maintain 12-17 might stacks, which makes me backstab for a good a mount of damage. It’s not bad at all for spvp.

But this is more of a wvw build to make up for the crit damage nerf, I still like trickery more for spvp mainly because 4 seconds revealed makes d/d a bit slower than trickery builds.

It is very hard to drop the exciting kill or be killed playstyle of trickery. When I have the armor to put it on and the gold for the runes (assuming they don’t get nerfed like people are calling for) I will probably pick up a set for pve/wvw

The new fixed strength runes over shadowed all the other power runes, they are even better than ogre and scholar now. But they still obligate you to build for a might stacking build. For example, if you run a trickery build with strength runes you won’t be utilizing what the runes have to offer 100% of the time. I don’t really see a reason for Anet to nerf these runes because 1. they are conditional 2. its only fair to have a set of runes like that after the damage nerf that’s been done.

Don’t worry man I don’t see them getting nerfed.

I just tried this with D/P and it works very nicely. Thanks for this post! I’m glad I have found I build I enjoy since the patch lol.

Do you guys think this can be use in sPvP? New trait in Shadow Arts seems really nice for resses. Also brings up some defence that overall can help Thief since it wotn be made interely of paper. Trikery is great but for D/P or D/D might not be woth now with these runes. I will try and see if it’s viable for sPvP. It might work as lond as I don’t sit in Stealth, that is useless

its really good if you dont miss your backstabs, I can tell you that much.

I use the old Nobles runes (now called Aristocrat) and it relatively easy to keep up the might stacks in a condition build.

Note that in the CS lines for power builds you can take might on signet traits and with 20 in Acro that will get you 16.5 seconds of 5 stacks of might. Assassins and or agility can work well here and Agility will fill your endurance if you are using might on dodge.

You can push it to over 20 in bursts.

For those worried about the travelers runes and the speed It can be a pain to adapt but I found it really not that hard to take assassins retreat in Acro and build up several minutes worth of swiftness on trash mobs. Ie take out a wolfpack and you will have 3 minutes. Switch out and you can cross the map with ease before switching back to another.

Thieves can disengage from battle rather easily and you can use this to advantage to quickly adapt your traits.

The added benefit to might stack builds is that they do boost both condition and direct damage so if you focus on power or on condition , both will benefit.

One thing I was playing with using Runes of the Noble was Signet of Malice on that food that adds both might and condition damage along with MIGHT on heal.

A single use of SOM gets you 11 stacks of might( noble runes). It did not have staying power but it was easy to keep the might close to max all the time using that and other sources. if one wanted to throw caution to the winds they could take the trait that decreases cool down on signets as well and this 11 stacks of might is more or less permanent.

Runes of strength might gen even more then that with the number 4 trait but then you count on being hit for that extra might which is not something one should look to be doing

babazhook.6805:

Runes of strength might gen even more then that with the number 4 trait but then you count on being hit for that extra might which is not something one should look to be doing

It would be stupid to get hit on purpose to get a might stack lol.

Does this apply to WvW? I mean, if you have tried this in WvW, what were the results?

Lockon.5312:

Does this apply to WvW? I mean, if you have tried this in WvW, what were the results?

Yes it does, and the results were little to no difference than my backstabs from pre patch(around 600 less damage than before which is not terrible). You have to be 10+ might stacks to feel the difference, and its easy to maintain that amount of stacks with this build. Both might from stealth and dodges lasts for 25 seconds.

Thanks! I really dislike the idea of P/D cause its really not my style of gameplay. The play of Black Powder + Heartseeker for me is too many initiative points wasted just to execute the move Backstab.

Thanks again, will test this one out. Sadly I don’t have Valkyrie Armors for my thief and the runes as well so its gonna be a farm fest for me.

Dont use blackpowder for stealth only….stay close to your opponent and use it as blind. Use heartseeker at the end of blackpowder. So u have minimum 2 blinds: one from the shot, second one, when u stay close (from the first pulse), mayby a third one → great survivalskill!!!

So do you think for WvW this would work (http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vYAQRAoY8alsMp0pdPxyJ8PNhs9wnqQii7hTlUNVXhrC-zUzAYrFNj7CIRBkskM6DERAmKAk+KiGblrIasKGMl7QkVxouDMSB8wYA-w) or just full Valkyrie and Zerker is better and I will just have to get used to low toughness? Like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vYAQRAoY8alsMp0pdPxyJ8PNhs9wnqQii7hTlUNVXhrC-z0yAYrFNjvCIRBkskM6DERAmKAk+KiGblrIas6aMlLRUNpAeYMA-w

Btw, I use D/D and S/P in solo. so most of the times, S/P is great to take camps, but in small group Shortbow is better I think, so I have allways one on, just in case

mPascoal.4258:

or just full Valkyrie and Zerker is better and I will just have to get used to low toughness?

Well if you think about it the damage nerf hit all professions not just thief, so people won’t be hitting as high as they used to, which makes room for giving up some toughness.

Valk/zerk mix or full zerk is what you want now for maximum damage, preferably valk/zerk mix.

Omri.8196:

mPascoal.4258:

or just full Valkyrie and Zerker is better and I will just have to get used to low toughness?

Well if you think about it the damage nerf hit all professions not just thief, so people won’t be hitting as high as they used to, which makes room for giving up some toughness.

Valk/zerk mix or full zerk is what you want now for maximum damage, preferably valk/zerk mix.

So the second option. it will be more pricy for me as I will have to buy new Daggers. or craft. I will decide, it will be either this build or a new with my Guard Idk yet. I know thta I will be selling my Traveler Runes most likely though

Ran the traits yesterday with a berserker armor and by far without the Runes of Strength yet I finally was able to strike for 8k with backstab. At first I did thought it was a fluke but was able to reproduce again the same results. Signet of Power + Backstab + Stacks of Might boon (preferably more than 7 stacks) will give you 8k above damage. I also incorporated skills such as Skale Venom (if I know I can easily get close) and if not I change that to infiltrator’s signet.

The trick is to use infiltrator’s signet to get close use Cloak and Dagger then Signet of Power then do the backstab. Don’t rush your attack as well as you have the whole 4 secs. to position yourself directly at the back of your opponent.

Lockon.5312:

Ran the traits yesterday with a berserker armor and by far without the Runes of Strength yet I finally was able to strike for 8k with backstab. At first I did thought it was a fluke but was able to reproduce again the same results. Signet of Power + Backstab + Stacks of Might boon (preferably more than 7 stacks) will give you 8k above damage. I also incorporated skills such as Skale Venom (if I know I can easily get close) and if not I change that to infiltrator’s signet.

The trick is to use infiltrator’s signet to get close use Cloak and Dagger then Signet of Power then do the backstab. Don’t rush your attack as well as you have the whole 4 secs. to position yourself directly at the back of your opponent.

I’d imagine even better results for you if you were running strength runes at that moment.

So in a nutshell everyone will be looking at keeping their stacks of might boons for as long as possible in WvW. Its not just going to be us thieves but even other classes.

anyone tried 5 scholar with 1 divinity?

red light november.3521:

anyone tried 5 scholar with 1 divinity?

Ruby orbs would be better than that.

What about Sigil of Inteligence and Sigil of Battle along with Executioner? Or just Sigil of inteligence with Sigil of Strengh

mPascoal.4258:

red light november.3521:

anyone tried 5 scholar with 1 divinity?

Ruby orbs would be better than that.

What about Sigil of Inteligence and Sigil of Battle along with Executioner? Or just Sigil of inteligence with Sigil of Strengh

You’ve brought my attention to an idea, sigil of strength or battle would be a good substitute for sigil of air ( at least for now since sigil of air reveals you if it procs on CnD which is a bug).

Just don’t replace sigil of force for strength or battle, for sigil of force is roughly equal to a 5 or 6 solid might stacks, so you will be getting the same results with on both ends.

Do you think this will work with a mixed zerk/valk armor set?

I was thinking of using head, chest, pants valk, and the rest zerker, or do I loose out on a lot of defense that way?

Well, I’ve tested it, replaced sigil of air with sigil of strength, turns out sigil of strength is far superior to air DPS wise, maybe not as good as air in burst though, if you’re a chain backstabber you’re appreciate sigil of strength more. I myself like it more.

with sigil of strength on my off hand dagger, and my traited for might infiltrator’s signet, I maintain a good 17 might stacks in combat, and it bursts to 20+ stacks with the use of the signet, making me deal high backstabs even on tanky targets, which is really really good concidering this is not a gimmiki squishy build and the fact I tested it in Spvp where damage is reduced compared to wvw.

mompen.7952:

Do you think this will work with a mixed zerk/valk armor set?

I was thinking of using head, chest, pants valk, and the rest zerker, or do I loose out on a lot of defense that way?

You wanna squeeze as much vitality as you can, believe it or not its your best friend now. The crit damage nerf may have pushed people towards condi meta even more, and here vitality serves you best.

I’m in full Valk atm and normally run with food buffs too, after patch I feel like that’s making little difference, did everyone suddenly get glassier? I feel like everything is hitting me for shi loads and I get quite low hp much faster than pre patch.

Omri.8196:

mompen.7952:

Do you think this will work with a mixed zerk/valk armor set?

I was thinking of using head, chest, pants valk, and the rest zerker, or do I loose out on a lot of defense that way?

You wanna squeeze as much vitality as you can, believe it or not its your best friend now. The crit damage nerf may have pushed people towards condi meta even more, and here vitality serves you best.

Quoted for truth.

@ mompen: Runes of the wurm are also good right now if you don’t like fluctuating power and need more vitality.

>>Just don’t replace sigil of force for strength or battle, for sigil of force is roughly equal to a 5 or 6 solid might stacks, so you will be getting the same results with on both ends.

This all depends on the exact nature of your build. If you are not interested in the ticks of your bleeds/poisons and the like then force might appear superior BUT keep this in mind.

Sigil of battle adds 3 stacks for 20 seconds. With Strength Runes these stacks will last 29 seconds.

That means if you switch regularly every 10 seconds you can build up to 9 stacks.

If you train in Acro at all you can push the length of time to over 30 seconds per weapon swap. You will get more damage from Sigil of battle then from force.

That said it IS a function of time. Sigil of force is superior in short fights, Sigil of battle is superior as the length of the engagement goes up.

babazhook.6805:

>&gt

That said it IS a function of time. Sigil of force is superior in short fights, Sigil of battle is superior as the length of the engagement goes up.

That’s very true. That’s what I was trying to say in my main post when I said that force had it from the start but battle or strength needed to stack might first.

Thing is my secondery weapon is shortbow, and I don’t find myself switching to it much in a 0/30/30/10/0 build, thats why I wouldnt go for sigil of battle. when I’m on my trickery build its different though, I’m on my shortbow 80% of the time.

What utilities do you use?

charkin.2936:

What utilities do you use?

withdraw heal, infiltrator’s signet, shadow refuge, shadowstep, basilik venom.

I don’t really like basilik venom that much anymore, it used to be my lyssa popper and my 45 sec cooldown mass condi removal, but now its just a brief stun with nothing special for an elite( for a 1 second stun to be elite I think ATLEAST it should be unbreakable). I debate on starting to use daggerstorm, people don’t expect much anymore and using it in its right time can turn the tables.

mompen.7952:

Do you think this will work with a mixed zerk/valk armor set?

I was thinking of using head, chest, pants valk, and the rest zerker, or do I loose out on a lot of defense that way?

that’s exactly what I ran (and still do) with traveler’s runes and sigils of fire/force…

I’m thinking of changing my gear up a bit now though as I think I might need a little more defense than that…

I find although I’ve lost of initial damage on my thief for WvW roaming, the new bloodlust sigil is pretty sweet and I’ve thrown in a sigil of blood…

I never had the patience for stacking bloodlust, but now with 5 stacks per player kill, its quite sweet…

Blood gives you extra dps but also….
Assuming you spend 3 seconds in reveal and 2 seconds in stealth to position a backstab in a normal fight… XI in shadow arts is giving you 600 hp (from 2 seconds in stealth) which is the same as 120 hp/second… Sigil of blood (with 300 healing power from shadow arts) heals for 480 and with the new power scaling hits for 453 + 7.5% of your power (pretty substantial)…
As it triggers once every 5 seconds its adding 88 hp/s to your rotation…. it make’s a difference…

I think with the crit dmg nerf, there isn’t going to be a “standard” thief build for a while now…

Omri.8196:

mompen.7952:

Do you think this will work with a mixed zerk/valk armor set?

I was thinking of using head, chest, pants valk, and the rest zerker, or do I loose out on a lot of defense that way?

You wanna squeeze as much vitality as you can, believe it or not its your best friend now. The crit damage nerf may have pushed people towards condi meta even more, and here vitality serves you best.

Allright, thanks. Tried it yesterday, and alltho I got some nice backstabs (12k on uplvl, and about 5-8k to toughies and squishies) I feel like I miss Shadow Rejuvenation in DA. Maybe its a L2P issue, but I feel like one heal (Withdraw) and Shadow Refuge isnt enough. Then again I miss feline grace, which is nice to get those mights up.

I also switched out Superior Sigil of Lightning for Superior Sigil of Battle (Gain 3 stacks of might (20 seconds) when you swap to this weapon while in combat. (Cooldown: 9 seconds)).
I start with SB, get a few hits, switch to D/D with Force and Battle sigils (thats 3 mights after switching), use Infiltrators Signet, 8 mights (? not in game right now), C&D ;stealthing 10-12 might, backstappph, and etc.

Any tips regarding my survival issues? Seems like people now know better how to fight us (and thats a good thing, maybe less QQ?) I find it hard to land a C&D at good players ^^

Mice.8921:

mompen.7952:

Do you think this will work with a mixed zerk/valk armor set?

I was thinking of using head, chest, pants valk, and the rest zerker, or do I loose out on a lot of defense that way?

that’s exactly what I ran (and still do) with traveler’s runes and sigils of fire/force…

I’m thinking of changing my gear up a bit now though as I think I might need a little more defense than that…

I find although I’ve lost of initial damage on my thief for WvW roaming, the new bloodlust sigil is pretty sweet and I’ve thrown in a sigil of blood…

I never had the patience for stacking bloodlust, but now with 5 stacks per player kill, its quite sweet…

Blood gives you extra dps but also….
Assuming you spend 3 seconds in reveal and 2 seconds in stealth to position a backstab in a normal fight… XI in shadow arts is giving you 600 hp (from 2 seconds in stealth) which is the same as 120 hp/second… Sigil of blood (with 300 healing power from shadow arts) heals for 480 and with the new power scaling hits for 453 + 7.5% of your power (pretty substantial)…
As it triggers once every 5 seconds its adding 88 hp/s to your rotation…. it make’s a difference…

I think with the crit dmg nerf, there isn’t going to be a “standard” thief build for a while now…

Yeah, I changed it to all Valk now. Doesnt seem like I lost that much damage vise, because of all the might stacking.

I have to check out that sigil of blood, thanks! Since I’m kinda struggling with survival atm, at least by following the exact traits as proposed here. I miss the heal (XI) in SA…

mompen.7952:

Any tips regarding my survival issues? Seems like people now know better how to fight us (and thats a good thing, maybe less QQ?) I find it hard to land a C&D at good players ^^

My friend you can still run this build with 0/30/30/10/0 just as effectively, you can trait SR for that extra survivability and still gain a lot of might stacks without feline grace. I did mention that feline grace is just my style, that extra dodge with withdraw heal is just my way of avoiding critical damage so to speak.

As for your issue with CnD, this is exactly the reason why d/d is concidered high skill cap set, your skills with landing CnD determines how good you are with d/d.

So be proud that you’re still a d/d thief, and good hunting.

And just to put this out there, there is a food that gives you might on dodge and 40% endurance regen which is really nice for this build. I still take the risk of going for power food though. See what suits you best.

Slcrisis.6930:

I’m in full Valk atm and normally run with food buffs too, after patch I feel like that’s making little difference, did everyone suddenly get glassier? I feel like everything is hitting me for shi loads and I get quite low hp much faster than pre patch.

You’re not alone, I noticed that right away using the same build from pre to post-patch. Others have noticed it too. It feels like somehow amidst all the changes to traits/runes/sigils/ferocity that something in defense got borked. OR base-line damage calculations on some skills is broken somehow as some tank warriors and guardians I play with have reported an increase in their ability damage.

Unfortunately due to having an incomplete combat log it’s next to impossible to parse and figure out what could have changed.

Luranni.9470:

Slcrisis.6930:

I’m in full Valk atm and normally run with food buffs too, after patch I feel like that’s making little difference, did everyone suddenly get glassier? I feel like everything is hitting me for shi loads and I get quite low hp much faster than pre patch.

You’re not alone, I noticed that right away using the same build from pre to post-patch. Others have noticed it too. It feels like somehow amidst all the changes to traits/runes/sigils/ferocity that something in defense got borked. OR base-line damage calculations on some skills is broken somehow as some tank warriors and guardians I play with have reported an increase in their ability damage.

Unfortunately due to having an incomplete combat log it’s next to impossible to parse and figure out what could have changed.

I believe it’s an AI bug, you feel way squshier than before right? Well you’re not, its just that professions with AI that can crit is bugged, something about that AI having the same attributes of the player’s runes. So mesmer phants, ranger pets, guardian spirit weapons and mm necro hit for waaay harder than pre patch, I hope they fix this soon because its put the thief in a very bad position.

You could have a point there Xiloquin. A tanky mesmer mate of mine went to res me last night and lost 3/4’s of his HP to a nearby flame turret that an engi had left behind. He was understandly like, WTF.

LOL yeah well I got critted for 10k from a mesmer’s down state phantasm while trying to stomp him. Got 1 shotted good game well played. :p

Is this the only viable way to play D/D now? Is there no good all out DPS builds now?

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Is this the only viable way to play D/D now? Is there no good all out DPS builds now?

I never said it’s the only viable build for d/d. its actually the same old common d/d build with just loads of might stacks and a 7% dmg boost from runes, I’ll take that any day.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Is this the only viable way to play D/D now? Is there no good all out DPS builds now?

You can still go roflglass with DD but this thread is focusing on how to revive the popular balanced DD specs that are close to extinction at this point

Gotcha. Reason I asked is because I haven’t seen any recent guides when I looked through the last few pages, which made me think that maybe DPS D/D wasn’t viable anymore.

I’ll be honest, I’m having a lot of difficulty trying to pin down a build I’m going to enjoy. I’m pretty sure whatever I choose, it’ll be with 6 in CS. That line is just too good looking. Now I’m trying to figure out if I want 6/6/x/x/x or x/6/6/x/x.