Guild Wars 2

Build
:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYFFhmLNJdi/ciY7RP3JR5UkUoqpgm2E-jUCBYfERjEEgkFA0HQpPFRjtMsIas6aYKXER12cFRrWIABjBA-w
note: the empty healing skill is the new healing skill.

What is and isn’t required
food isn’t required, if you can’t afford it you can always buy lower grade food, but it is pretty cheap, Runes and sigils ARE required, it’s fine if you can’t afford bloodlust runes, i often take force runes because i’m to lazy too farm stacks. ascended items aren’t required, (just try to keep your crit chance around 42%)! prefix’s are required.

how to engage
don’t blow all of your venoms then engage, that’s a waste of 1k+ free health and damage. to play this build you want to CYCLE though your venoms, i normally wait til i’m a bit low and pop spider venom for some healing and damage/reduced healing effectiveness on enemy (from poison). i’ll normally use basilisk venom when the enemy is around half hp and go in for a backstab to kill them (if i havn’t already used it) and i’ll use skale venom early in the fight when i need healing and want vulnerability on my target. how i normally engage will be something like this:
heartseeker towards the enemy and pop my steal while in mid air (for extra range) i damage them with my heartseeker and mug trait, then i will immediately clock and dagger and backstab them, then i will normally pop a venom to get some healing/damage in and use it on the enemy, keeping venoms up so i can continue to cycle through them/aswell and re cloaking and backstabbing for maximum damage.

how to disengage
say you’re fighting an annoying hammer warrior (hammer warriors are always annoying to me ;-;) and midway into the fight they hammerstun you and you’re low enough health to die, so you need to escape, you simply shadow step away to break the stun and then heartseeker away/switch to your shortbow for 50% endurance and use infiltrator’s arrow to escape, very simple!

why i use these runes
for mobility speed. you need mobility when you roam, for chasing as well and running away.

Why i don’t take infusion of shadow
i dont take this trait because we have had our initiative regeneration buffed from .75 to 1 per second, this helps a lot and makes it so you don’t have to rely on initiative traits anymore.

comparison to regular d/d backstab build
more damage/slows/condi
less stealth (you can only stealth from cloak and dagger/trait passives)
alternatively you COULD take shadow refuge in place of skale venom for the extra stealth) the stats themselves are about the same, but more power since you took traits in the deadly arts tree
(the d/d backstab i used to use was 0/30/30/10/0 btw)

any questions?
i’d love some feedback
aLovedHater
Anvil Rock

-edit
stupid spelling mistakes

I used about the same thing in WvW just now only with shadowstep being Roll for Initiative. I am not quite sure about the venom heal yet. It’s atleast less crappy than advertised :P

@undead cool ^^.i’m actually testing it , i thought it was going to be useless too but i think you actually get more healing out of it than the old healing skill, as well as damage from the trait passive! and it’s only a 36second cd compared to 30s cd. it’s been fun so far i think i’ve used the conditions on venoms more for lots on weakness/ less healing for enemy, as well as vulnerability on them and the bonus damage/heal you get from popping the venom. i’m thinking about trying roll for initiative, but i like the hard engage shadow step gives, aswell as the cc when you step back, it also has less of a cd. the 6 initiative looks really nice though, i think it’s more for continuing a fight rather then leaving it, but i’ll think about using it

skelk venom = 9573 hp per minute heal (16350 traited (1 strike/leeching))
skelk venom = 159 hp per second heal (272 traited (1 strike/leeching))

withdraw = 18100 hp per minute heal
withdraw = 301 hp per second heal

Hide in shadows = 12440 hp per minute (17014 traited)
Hide in shadows = 207 hp per second heal (284 traited)

If you count the damage/mitigation from condition removal and avoidance from stealth….. the other heals not only BEAT skelk venom but blow it out of the water.

Now is that really worth sacrificing all your defense for ? a bunch of maybe hits and maybe buffs if allies are close enough? low hp, low defense, no invulnerbilty, no protection, no aegis, no blocks etc etc.

Im gonna pass. i guess venoms are “almost there” STILL. Perhaps put them on f2 f3 f4 and replace them with real utilities. right now they are just sub par and garbage UNLESS you use 30/x/30/x/x build and even then your defenseless.

Might i add that skelk venom is probably about 25% less due to half the strikes of venom not hitting.

aLovedhater.4096:

Build
:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYFFhmLNJdi/ciY7RP3JR5UkUoqpgm2E-jUCBYfERjEEgkFA0HQpPFRjtMsIas6aYKXER12cFRrWIABjBA-w
note: the empty healing skill is the new healing skill.

What is and isn’t required
food isn’t required, if you can’t afford it you can always buy lower grade food, but it is pretty cheap, Runes and sigils ARE required, it’s fine if you can’t afford bloodlust runes, i often take force runes because i’m to lazy too farm stacks. ascended items aren’t required, (just try to keep your crit chance around 42%)! prefix’s are required.

how to engage
don’t blow all of your venoms then engage, that’s a waste of 1k+ free health and damage. to play this build you want to CYCLE though your venoms, i normally wait til i’m a bit low and pop spider venom for some healing and damage/reduced healing effectiveness on enemy (from poison). i’ll normally use basilisk venom when the enemy is around half hp and go in for a backstab to kill them (if i havn’t already used it) and i’ll use skale venom early in the fight when i need healing and want vulnerability on my target. how i normally engage will be something like this:
heartseeker towards the enemy and pop my steal while in mid air (for extra range) i damage them with my heartseeker and mug trait, then i will immediately clock and dagger and backstab them, then i will normally pop a venom to get some healing/damage in and use it on the enemy, keeping venoms up so i can continue to cycle through them/aswell and re cloaking and backstabbing for maximum damage.

how to disengage
say you’re fighting an annoying hammer warrior (hammer warriors are always annoying to me ;-;) and midway into the fight they hammerstun you and you’re low enough health to die, so you need to escape, you simply shadow step away to break the stun and then heartseeker away/switch to your shortbow for 50% endurance and use infiltrator’s arrow to escape, very simple!

why i use these runes
for mobility speed. you need mobility when you roam, for chasing as well and running away.

Why i don’t take infusion of shadow
i dont take this trait because we have had our initiative regeneration buffed from .75 to 1 per second, this helps a lot and makes it so you don’t have to rely on initiative traits anymore.

comparison to regular d/d backstab build
more damage/slows/condi
less stealth (you can only stealth from cloak and dagger/trait passives)
alternatively you COULD take shadow refuge in place of skale venom for the extra stealth) the stats themselves are about the same, but more power since you took traits in the deadly arts tree
(the d/d backstab i used to use was 0/30/30/10/0 btw)

any questions?
i’d love some feedback
aLovedHater
Anvil Rock

-edit
stupid spelling mistakes

This is another bad build. If you would, please put in more hours on the thief and maybe you will see what is wrong with this build. Unlike my prior posts, I’ll give you a hint.

Venom – There’s an internal cooldown of 1 secs meaning you will most likely not fully benefit from all of the potential healing due to the fast attacks of the dagger.

Damage – Damage/burst from D/D comes from Backstab. If you lessen the amount of time you can enter stealth, it directly decreases damage. Therefore, this build will do less damage than your typical D/D build. Additionally, you will lose about 4-8 stacks of might without going into 25 in SA. On a regular 10/30/30/0/0 build you will have more power than your 20/30/20/0/0 build.

Condition – You have no conditions removal other than SS.

That’s it for now. I think we both learned somethign today.

Mlrra – if there is a 1 second interval, like you said, you’re backstabbing, not auto attacking (hint the build name) and for damage, you deal more damage than the regular backstab build. and as far as i recall the other d/d backstab build didn’t have any cc besides SS, if you you want CC then get roll for initiative, problem solved you almost never get 8 stacks of might when putting 25 in so that’s not a big deal. and you deal more damage on 20/30/2/0/0 than 10/30/30/0/0. please stop commenting on my posts and stop stalking me. i’ve looked at your recent posts and it’s all negative.

@Travlane it’s only maybe some extra heal from skelk if you aren’t able to use it properly, you still get the damage and heal from the venoms on ACTIVATION. you only sacrifice 100 toughness & vitality from this build to get the extra healing/damage/condition effects, it’s a very small difference because we’re squishy no mater what. and we never has aegis/blocks/protection/invulverability anyways, so how could we be losing it? i hope you’re not comparing this to other classes because last time i checked this is a thief forum. not a discussion forums between classes, i’ve seen f2 ect venoms and yeah sure that would be VERY nice, i agree fully with you on that, but that doesn’t mean that should be the ONLY way to fix venoms. skelk venom is only -800 healing if you only hit 2 venoms on your enemy. compared to the what, around 6500 healing you get from the rest of it? please take a look at the build before you assume all thieves are sub par and garbage and force your opinions on others. thanks

aLovedhater.4096:

@Travlane it’s only maybe some extra heal from skelk if you aren’t able to use it properly, you still get the damage and heal from the venoms on ACTIVATION. you only sacrifice 100 toughness & vitality from this build to get the extra healing/damage/condition effects, it’s a very small difference because we’re squishy no mater what. and we never has aegis/blocks/protection/invulverability anyways, so how could we be losing it? i hope you’re not comparing this to other classes because last time i checked this is a thief forum. not a discussion forums between classes, i’ve seen f2 ect venoms and yeah sure that would be VERY nice, i agree fully with you on that, but that doesn’t mean that should be the ONLY way to fix venoms. skelk venom is only -800 healing if you only hit 2 venoms on your enemy. compared to the what, around 6500 healing you get from the rest of it? please take a look at the build before you assume all thieves are sub par and garbage and force your opinions on others. thanks

not sure what you are babbling about…not to insult u …seriously thats not what i mean. but its babbling bc you are all over the place.

i already showed you how its a crap heal by itself (cant be argued as ive shown the math) even with full 60 trait points put into buffing it.

i already showed (diff thread) how bad it is for the thief when running it bc 36-45 secs after popping it you can only clusterbomb and auto attack with SB or pistol bc there is ZERO defense to go with it excluding 2 dodge rolls.

pop 5 venoms and share then /sleep or /autoattack for next 36-45 seconds. dangerous AND boring!

i checked some of the math and i i would love to know how withdraw heals more than hide in shadows lol. i’ll do math later for you if you need. also if you red the build, it’s 4 venoms, and you dont pop them at the same time. pleasee, pleasee read before you post, and it’s 36s not kitten , this isn’t your build that you showed how bad, that was your thread you showed how a DIFFERENT build with venoms was bad lol. what you have said has nothing to do with my build XD and yeah travlane i know you aren’t insulting me, i understand you don’t like venoms. but it’s coming across that way

aLovedhater.4096:

Mlrra – if there is a 1 second interval, like you said, you’re backstabbing, not auto attacking (hint the build name) and for damage, you deal more damage than the regular backstab build. and as far as i recall the other d/d backstab build didn’t have any cc besides SS, if you you want CC then get roll for initiative, problem solved you almost never get 8 stacks of might when putting 25 in so that’s not a big deal. and you deal more damage on 20/30/2/0/0 than 10/30/30/0/0. please stop commenting on my posts and stop stalking me. i’ve looked at your recent posts and it’s all negative.

Ok…you lost me. So you’re saying you don’t use any other attacks besides Backstab?

Also, are you saying other Backstab builds do not have condition clenase besides shadowstep/shadowreturn and the answer to condition cleanse is roll for initiative?

aLovedhater.4096:

comparison to regular d/d backstab build
more damage

Can I get some math from you on how exactly this is more damage than a standard D/D backstab build that correctly uses food and gear? Cause I dont believe you =3

Use the build that pops up when you click thief in my sig as a basis to compare it to, thanks! (Oh, and one last thing, the build in my sig will stack bloodlust to 25 before equipping sigil of force into the main hand dagger)

Withdraw heals for somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 what hide in shadows does, but it has half the cool down. Unless you trait for heal/regen in stealth and then actually STAY in stealth for the 4 seconds, withdraw heals more over time. Travlane’s numbers are pretty accurate.
I’ve also read on the forums that the new heal skill doesn’t benefit from some of the venom traits. I don’t know how true this is or which traits specifically, but it would be worth testing before replacing HiS or withdraw.

The build is a nice idea, my main problem with it is that you would gain roughly the same amount of health from the SA grandmaster trait by using stealth on rotation. If you time the steal properly with mug traited, you don’t need the spider venom for the poison either.
The condis won’t be hitting that hard, since there’s not many of them and they have no condi damage to buff them. The extra power is nice, but if you use 10/30/30 for mug you only need 3 stacks of might to get the same power output as your build. This is easily achievable with the SA 25 point trait, and the might will buff your condi damage too.

So from my PoV, if the power is roughly the same, the condi damage gained is negligible, the main thing you gain over a 10/30/30 build is the damage from the life leech. To gain this, you’ve given up using shadow refuge and blinding powder for survivability, or assassin’s signet and devourer venom for damage & control.

It depends how you play really, I’m sure your build is effective in your hands, I just think the venoms don’t add enough to justify the loss of the other things. That’s my 2 cents anyways :P

It’s just a shame the venoms aren’t done better tbh. I’d love to see them used more often, and for it not to just feel like a party trick :/

@jugglemonkey the heal skill does work with all the venom traits, if it doesn’t then there is a bug. you take spider for extra poison + weakness from poison, skale for vulnerability stacks and torment. and you take both for the free healing/damage, i explained this earlyer in my very first post, if you havn’t read that. the condi’s aren’t for full damage, you’re power for condi damage, they are used for heal/dmg on use @ weakness heal reduction, ect. the condi damage is just a bonus. i do like the extra power though, please keep in mind the damage your venoms do alone. just because i don’t have the sa 25 point trait doesn’t mean i can’t make up for it in other ways. many build dont take blinding powder and shadow refuge, for example s/d | d/p build. just because you dont have shadow refuge doesn’t mean it’s the end of the world, i think it has enough survivability from just the leach/venom themselves, but that’s just what i think. thanks for not being negative like the majority of people on here o/ merry wintersday.

aLovedhater.4096:

@jugglemonkey the heal skill does work with all the venom traits, if it doesn’t then there is a bug. you take spider for extra poison + weakness from poison, skale for vulnerability stacks and torment. and you take both for the free healing/damage, i explained this earlyer in my very first post, if you havn’t read that. the condi’s aren’t for full damage, you’re power for condi damage, they are used for heal/dmg on use @ weakness heal reduction, ect. the condi damage is just a bonus. i do like the extra power though, please keep in mind the damage your venoms do alone. just because i don’t have the sa 25 point trait doesn’t mean i can’t make up for it in other ways. many build dont take blinding powder and shadow refuge, for example s/d | d/p build. just because you dont have shadow refuge doesn’t mean it’s the end of the world, i think it has enough survivability from just the leach/venom themselves, but that’s just what i think. thanks for not being negative like the majority of people on here o/ merry wintersday.

I read the first post, and I honestly think that any build can be effective in the right hands. My concern is that whilst the damage and healing from the life leech looks really nice, this to me is really the only thing you gain over the standard build, and you’re forced to use at least 2 venom utilities to get it. That being said, it’s hard to see how much survivability the venoms give you without having tried it.

I personally think the extra might and regen from shadow arts would be more valuable than the lotus poison and cool down reduction from deadly arts (10/30/30), but if you prefer your way then don’t let me stop you. I do tend to build more defensively than I need to as I have a nasty habit of picking fights with groups, so maybe my concerns are stemming from that :P

(P.S. You might also want consider using devourer venom over skale venom, as some classes have no way to counter immobilise so it might be more useful than the torment.)

Actually is not a bad built by itself, i has try something similar before patch, the problem is the 36 seg of cool down of all the venoms, sometimes i need to blow 2 at the same time to gain some control of the battle and then i have to wait too much. Also in 1 v X the venoms dont help to sustain the fights very well for the long cooldowns. If venons had best cool downs (like 25seg) this kind of build could be very fun, but rigth now they are too troublesome to use (at least for me).

also I recomend you the same of Jugglemonkey, change skale for devourer (at least give it a try) it will give you more control of the battle which you will need a lot.

Have fun : )

@magom Thanks! and i might

Problems:

It’s a rather glassy build, with very few escapes. Necros/mesmers/condition engis/bleed warriors will eat you alive.

This is the problem with venoms, they’re fine if you’re running in a group, but solo they just take up valuable slots. The healing back from them is pretty poor. Shadow rejuv is guaranteed healing every second in stealth.

Sorry dude, prove me wrong, make a video, but it has some glaring holes i’m afraid.

that’s true, it is a glassy build, but i believe just about all thiefs are glassy to begin with.. it only has 200 less armor and about 500 less hp than the normal 0/30/30/10/0 dd bs build. i think shadowstep is enough of an escape when combined with inf arrow/heartseeker, that’s actually the same escape as the old s/d build.. i think solo is fine, but opinions are opinions i guess, and i’d love to make vids of these but i can’t find editing software than can edit FLV files (i record with xplit) :l

If you’re “glassy”, then you’ll need fight-time mobility and/or utility — not just something to escape. With an unreliable heal (more-so heals), an unreliable stealth, venom-centric traits, and no mobility (outside of an escape), you’ll have a difficult fight against any competent opponent.

The benefit of HiS is a heal, 3 condition removal and 4 secs of stealth. It is just so good the venom pales incomparison. Healing isn’t just about the raw heal, it’s about the damage you’ve avoided by losing 3 conditions.

You’re build is an all or nothing type build, if it works you’ll demolish someone, but one mistake, or if you’re against a decent player who can kite, you’ll be over my friend.