d/d - My thoughts about 3rd and 4th skill
as for DB, why would it need to be re-worked? it is GREAT for condition builds, is used for one of the main leveling builds, and you are in evasion for part of it while applying 3 good duration bleeds to multiple targets so the initiative cost is quite reasonable. you don’t like it because you don’t use it in a burst build, but thief condition damage is based around weapons that can both burst and bleed. IE short bow, D/D, and pistol main hand depending on the off hand can be used for either condition damage or ranged burst.
as for dancing dagger, the damage isn’t supposed to be high, the 50% nerf told us that much. it is a ranged cripple, which is nice to have with a dagger or pistol main hand, and it is a bouncing cripple. it may not be the best 1v1 cripple in the game, but most thief weapon abilities are situational. head shot is a ranged interrupt, heart seeker is near pointless when an enemy is above 50% health, and it is invaluable if your gap closers are on CD and you don’t use signet of shadows. wouldn’t complain about an initiative decrease to 3 since the nerf though.
Gungnir Grimm – 80 Thief
Gungnir Aurus – 80 Guardian
[AUX] Isle of Janthir
Gungnir Aurus – 80 Guardian
[AUX] Isle of Janthir
as for DB, why would it need to be re-worked? it is GREAT for condition builds, is used for one of the main leveling builds, and you are in evasion for part of it while applying 3 good duration bleeds to multiple targets so the initiative cost is quite reasonable. you don’t like it because you don’t use it in a burst build, but thief condition damage is based around weapons that can both burst and bleed. IE short bow, D/D, and pistol main hand depending on the off hand can be used for either condition damage or ranged burst.
as for dancing dagger, the damage isn’t supposed to be high, the 50% nerf told us that much. it is a ranged cripple, which is nice to have with a dagger or pistol main hand, and it is a bouncing cripple. it may not be the best 1v1 cripple in the game, but most thief weapon abilities are situational. head shot is a ranged interrupt, heart seeker is near pointless when an enemy is above 50% health, and it is invaluable if your gap closers are on CD and you don’t use signet of shadows. wouldn’t complain about an initiative decrease to 3 since the nerf though.
I think a thief’s objective, atleast on tourn, is to burst a target down as fast as possible. And most thieves use burst builds, so db has no use what so ever, really no use in burst builds. I think they should somehow implement a skill with such builds on pistol/dagger build which is used for conditions, not d/d. You’re using a condition build and the only skill you use is db, which makes no sense. D/d needs a skill replacement instead of db, it just has no use.
If you use d/p you’ll see that dancing dagger is a weak skill compared to d/p skills. What’s the point of wasting 4 initiative on crippling enemies for 4sec with almost no damage at all and they can remove it with a simple click of a button?
Agreed on both counts. Death blossom for a burst build is really only useful against 4+ targets, and then really just for tagging all of them or dodging of you’re getting swarmed (in PvE where attack rates are predictable). After the nerf, DD is only situationally useful on S/D when you’ve used infiltrators strike already and are trying to chase someone down. With D/D you might as well heartseeker as it will hit harder and close the gap for 1 less iinitiative
(edited by Maugetarr.6823)
Since pistol/dagger is used for condition builds, why not replace a skill similar or the same as deathblossom?
And remove deathblossom from d/d, what do you think?
I think that the SB is the worst weapon ever for burst builds. i mean, why does the #3 skill move you AWAY from the target? ANET FIX!
Bro, you’re not getting it. Thieves may only be burst for tournament, but look at WVW and PVE. DB is one of THE BEST skills for thieves who run condi.
Don’t think in the box, look outside the box. If you can’t find a use for all of the thief skills, you’re not playing properly.
With that being said, you can ignore DB if you’re using a burst build, but just the same, I can ignore BS if i’m playing a Condition build.. IN FACT, I can ignore 1,2,4,5 if i’m using D/D condi. Is that fair? not really, but it’s how it’s played!
Aeilos – 80 Thief – Maguuma [TTK]
DB is one of THE BEST skills for thieves who run condi.
Feel like I’m repeating myself, don’t you think it’s stupid that you use only ONE SKILL on a condi build? Why not moving db to another weapon set so you can use db and other condition skills? Because using only one skill and ignoring the other 4skills feels stupid, or on a burst build ignoring a skill feels broken, you don’t see that in other classes do you?
If they brought up the base damage so that a balanced to burst could hit for 2k-3k on crits (in total, not each hit) I think it would be useful as a condition build would still hit for a relatively little amount.
If they brought up the base damage so that a balanced to burst could hit for 2k-3k on crits (in total, not each hit) I think it would be useful as a condition build would still hit for a relatively little amount.
On d/d? Cause you would still ignore other 3 skills, which is broken aswell :\
i like DB on direct damage build .
decent burst and survaivability
- is my best counter for blurred frenzy . I jump on an mesmer he use blurred frenzy, i cannot C&D on him so i use DB
same goes vs warrior who use endure pain/hb , even if my cond damage is low.
I can also dodge an volley , kill shot , unload when my endurance is low (skills that will hit me on stealth)
i like DB on direct damage build .
decent burst and survaivability
- is my best counter for blurred frenzy . I jump on an mesmer he use blurred frenzy, i cannot C&D on him so i use DB
same goes vs warrior who use endure pain/hb , even if my cond damage is low.
I can also dodge an volley , kill shot , unload when my endurance is low (skills that will hit me on stealth)
I kinda uderstand you there mate, but it’s 5 initiative for 1 dodge :\
If they brought up the base damage so that a balanced to burst could hit for 2k-3k on crits (in total, not each hit) I think it would be useful as a condition build would still hit for a relatively little amount.
On d/d? Cause you would still ignore other 3 skills, which is broken aswell :\
Well the autoattack chain has its place in a condition build with D/D, but 2 & 4 are pretty unhelpful in a condi D/D build. Its not like a warrior S/S where 4/5 abilities are unified around condition builds. They tried to split the weaponset, but it seems like it emphasizes direct damage more.
I find dancing dagger exceptional on single targets in WvW. Most players try to avoid 1v1s vs a thief and cripple helps to make sure when I catch a roamer that they don’t get away.
Running a glass thief I still like deathblossom, it might not be as useful as with a condition build but I like using it in a crowd to damage multiple people at once (guess you could say the only d/d aoe). Use it to jump out of a enemy combo field that was thrown on me, with this skill you can both evade the effects of the field and get out of it all with 1 skill positioned properly. A good emergency evade, it’s amusing to spam deathblossom in a crowd and see “evade” pop up countless times during the animation knowing all those evades would have probably killed me.
As for dancing dagger… This skill frustrates me a lot because I tend to accidently press 4 and go “kitten stop wasting initiative”. Only use is if someone is running away on the verge or death. It has it’s use but more situational then all the other skills imo. A cripple is nice to have but I barely ever need it to begin with.
DB is one of THE BEST skills for thieves who run condi.
Feel like I’m repeating myself, don’t you think it’s stupid that you use only ONE SKILL on a condi build? Why not moving db to another weapon set so you can use db and other condition skills? Because using only one skill and ignoring the other 4skills feels stupid, or on a burst build ignoring a skill feels broken, you don’t see that in other classes do you?
No other class has the variance in skills that a thief does. As a condi thief, I do like to use HS for catching an opponent, or running away if I screw up. HS is a way cheaper option than SB -> Inf. I like using #5 for stealth to position better before using Caltrops. I use #4 when fighting Vs 2+, helps keep them in place for a DB barrage.
I have a use for all skills, but DB happens to be insanely good. I didn’t realize I had to make a case for every skill on the bar. You not being able to use them- thats a problem you have.
Edit: and the EVADE part of it? are you kidding me?
I find dancing dagger exceptional on single targets in WvW. Most players try to avoid 1v1s vs a thief and cripple helps to make sure when I catch a roamer that they don’t get away.
DD is crazy expensive for 1 person.. you can cripple with caltrips if you’re a condi thief. It might actually be cheaper to HS -> CnD -> caltrops.
It might be the same cost, but you’re getting damage + positioning in the same tool set.
Aeilos – 80 Thief – Maguuma [TTK]
(edited by EnterRehab.3268)
Im running a condition thief, and yea my main attack is DB but it’s not like I ONLY spam 3. DB isn’t as optimal as it can be if the target(s) are moving around, so the cripple given by 4 is helpful (though I’d be lying if I said it’s my main go-to way of crippling enemies, I use caltrops for that + the bleeds!)
CnD, along with shadow refuge, are ways to trigger stealth to access my traits that gives me boons while in stealth, namely, heal a condition every 3 secs and gain initiative while in stealth. Since CnD has no cooldown and I recover initiative at a reasonable rate, CnD is pretty useful in emergencies if I need to remove some conditions pronto and my shadow refuge/shadow step are in cool down.
I see your point Rylark, the way d/d is now not all the skills are optimal for either burst or condition, but its not broken or unworkable either.