Guild Wars 2

this is supposed to be a QOL change
not a buff

so we should not allow F2 + F1 combo

meaning if for eg a fear bundle F2 is used, F1 should be locked to prevent the thief from activating at range then using F1 to steal and blink in for the fear to connect at close range

or imagine activating whirling axe bundle + steal to blink in on a warrior

or imagine doing a range daze on guards by activating F2 then using F1 to blink in

no chance for guard to reliably counter

when traited, steal already poison, dmg, daze, grant fury and more

it is too much to allow F2 and F1 to work together

this is too OP

or if F1 is used while F2 is casting, it cancels F2

true that it can already be done with instant blink skills
BUT those are on LONGER cooldowns and don’t give the insane things that a traited LOW COOLDOWN steal does

Everything you’re claiming will be “too OP” is already a possibility with Inf Sig. + stolen item. It hasn’t broken the game yet, so I doubt this change would either.

Plus, those skill still have animations. It’s safe to assume if you see a thief way out of melee range start his “Mace Crack” swing, he’s probably planning on using Inf Sig to get it to connect. Pretending like there’s no reliable counter is silly, it’s animation reading just like every other skill in the game. It works exactly the same way as when you see a D/D thief start a CnD while between 300-900 unit range – you just know the steal/inf sig is coming.

I’m not saying there isn’t some merit in discussing how the new Steal split should work, just don’t pretend like something that’s been possible since launch will all of a sudden become broken because of slightly better access, and let’s not outright lie about how counterable something is when you can still see it coming.

Also, you should note that in the preview video, they specifically mentioned stolen items are being redesigned (“They’re losing their damage component” is what was said, IIRC)

So many “teef op” threads lately.

Just a disclaimer, as noted before; this is already possible by coupling the Stolen Skill with any instant blink available. Some of those things can even be achieved by smashing F1. For example, if you have the Mace Crack, and smash F1, you will be hitting your steal before the animation ends, and even if you have the Sleight of Hand traited, the short Daze will just be overwritten by a longer one. I’ve also used this same method with Ice Shard a lot of times. This requires the Steal to be off-cooldown of course.

The change will only result in a QoL change that should have happened ages ago. Sure, you get an extra blink for Skull fear, but the issues you envision in your head are already there.

I understand the OPs concerns. In the examples people are giving in order to teleport you need to use a utility usually or mash F1 so you can steal while casting assuming the cast time is long enough.

I do think it’s a good QoL change for thieves though I don’t like the no cost to cast and teleport aspect, especially if you think about using whirling axes, steal, then whirl again.

I do think necro skulls are gonna be annoying as makes it a lot easier to cast and port. It would be nice if Karl could let us know a bit more about the changes to stolen items like how much of a rework they are getting.

true that it can already be done with instant blink skills

BUT those are on LONGER cooldowns and don’t give the insane things that a traited LOW COOLDOWN steal does

EremiteAngel.9765:

true that it can already be done with instant blink skills

BUT those are on LONGER cooldowns and don’t give the insane things that a traited LOW COOLDOWN steal does

Steals base CD is 35s (21.5s traited). Inf Sig’s base CD is 30s (24s traited). Those numbers don’t seem very far apart to me.
Furthermore, you’ve completely ignored how your initial thread was incorrect on every point it tried to make. The things traited steal gives have a cost related to them (the traits), and how does that factor in at all?

You don’t have a valid or worthwhile point to make. F2+F1 in the new system is currently possible in the current system, sometimes via steal and sometimes via Inf sig (which has a very similar CD to steal).

Please stop rabble rousing, this is a non-issue.

everything u said can already be done… with steal… without infil signet

If you aren’t finished casting F2 before hitting steal, wouldn’t you lose out on the stolen bundle? Sounds like that is more of an interesting choice to make instead of an OP combo, since doing it wrong has a downside.

This type of post was pretty much inevitable. ANet can’t change anything without players crying doomsday to balance and if they leave anything the same, you’ll also see players talking about how we’re currently in a balance Armageddon.

I’m a mesmer and I support what the OP says~

Not really. Nothing changes, it’s all the same except that a thief might, once in a blue moon, make a stupid decision and overwrite his stolen item rather than just use it.

You can already do that by using the stolen skill and steal. Nothing about this is changing, except now you can see the CD on your “low CD broken OP” skill. At least play the class first before you start lecturing the people who designed the class on how to balance it.

I already do this all the time. With the exact example you gave.

Go try it in a game, steal from a warrior, wait 30 seconds, then hit F1 twice. You will use spin move and then shadowstep to the enemy while still spinning.

Instant skills don’t break channels or casting so you can always shadowstep while using a skill, stolen ability or not.

EremiteAngel.9765:

true that it can already be done with instant blink skills

BUT those are on LONGER cooldowns and don’t give the insane things that a traited LOW COOLDOWN steal does

“We took away the damage portion of stolen items and will be doing some rebalancing on the stolen items themselves.”

Found in specialization notes.

Who knows, they might change the stolen items in HoT. Since there are ways to lower Steal’s cooldown if trait. Swindler’s Equilibrium and Sleight of Hand.

evilapprentice.6379:

Everything you’re claiming will be “too OP” is already a possibility with Inf Sig. + stolen item. It hasn’t broken the game yet, so I doubt this change would either.

Plus, those skill still have animations. It’s safe to assume if you see a thief way out of melee range start his “Mace Crack” swing, he’s probably planning on using Inf Sig to get it to connect. Pretending like there’s no reliable counter is silly, it’s animation reading just like every other skill in the game. It works exactly the same way as when you see a D/D thief start a CnD while between 300-900 unit range – you just know the steal/inf sig is coming.

I’m not saying there isn’t some merit in discussing how the new Steal split should work, just don’t pretend like something that’s been possible since launch will all of a sudden become broken because of slightly better access, and let’s not outright lie about how counterable something is when you can still see it coming.

Also, you should note that in the preview video, they specifically mentioned stolen items are being redesigned (“They’re losing their damage component” is what was said, IIRC)

Just that Inf Sig has longer CD, and doesn’t remove boon, cause poison, and does good damage. For Guardian’s case, F2 + F1 steal option allow you to remove Aegis from Guardian first before landing the 5 seconds daze. (And it all happens in 0.1 second or less because you can precast it)

Also I hope people can be more objective when it comes to things that they play. So far all they do is “OMG don’t touch my OP stuff or I’ll kill you” attitude.

evilapprentice.6379:

Everything you’re claiming will be “too OP” is already a possibility with Inf Sig. + stolen item. It hasn’t broken the game yet, so I doubt this change would either.

“Thief hasn’t broken the game yet”

Rofl.

EremiteAngel.9765:

this is supposed to be a QOL change
not a buff

so we should not allow F2 + F1 combo

meaning if for eg a fear bundle F2 is used, F1 should be locked to prevent the thief from activating at range then using F1 to steal and blink in for the fear to connect at close range

or imagine activating whirling axe bundle + steal to blink in on a warrior

or imagine doing a range daze on guards by activating F2 then using F1 to blink in

no chance for guard to reliably counter

when traited, steal already poison, dmg, daze, grant fury and more

it is too much to allow F2 and F1 to work together

this is too OP

or if F1 is used while F2 is casting, it cancels F2

true that it can already be done with instant blink skills
BUT those are on LONGER cooldowns and don’t give the insane things that a traited LOW COOLDOWN steal does

I’d like to say that this is already possible, let’s say I steal a fear from someone, I wait till my steal is OFF CD, I can pop the fear, Which is F1, and hit F1 another time to steal to them and also get the next time while the fear does the cast time. This “Combo” is already in the game. If you don’t think it’s true go test it. That’s how Double Fear Thief does it’s rawr thing. Or starting warrior spin and stealing to someone, it all works the same. Just hit F1 twice, the only difference now is we won’t have to be like. “I THINK MY STEAL IS OFF CD”

Aomine.5012:

Just that Inf Sig has longer CD, and doesn’t remove boon, cause poison, and does good damage. For Guardian’s case, F2 + F1 steal option allow you to remove Aegis from Guardian first before landing the 5 seconds daze. (And it all happens in 0.1 second or less because you can precast it)

Also I hope people can be more objective when it comes to things that they play. So far all they do is “OMG don’t touch my OP stuff or I’ll kill you” attitude.

EremiteAngel.9765:

this is supposed to be a QOL change
not a buff

so we should not allow F2 + F1 combo

meaning if for eg a fear bundle F2 is used, F1 should be locked to prevent the thief from activating at range then using F1 to steal and blink in for the fear to connect at close range

or imagine activating whirling axe bundle + steal to blink in on a warrior

or imagine doing a range daze on guards by activating F2 then using F1 to blink in

no chance for guard to reliably counter

when traited, steal already poison, dmg, daze, grant fury and more

it is too much to allow F2 and F1 to work together

this is too OP

or if F1 is used while F2 is casting, it cancels F2

true that it can already be done with instant blink skills
BUT those are on LONGER cooldowns and don’t give the insane things that a traited LOW COOLDOWN steal does

We can already do this. Steal doesnt interrupt anything with a cast time.

Its just going from F1-F1 when things are off CD to F2-F1 under the same criteria.

Play thief and stop flailing around about imaginary buffs pls, you’re wasting time.

All this change actually does is allow for steal to be used instead of the item altogether and keep the bundle in a situation where it’s more useful.

I almost always drop the Axe Whirl from warriors. I’ve never found a use for the Ele stolen item. Only in larger scale fights will I consider using the whirl as a means to reflect projectiles. However, an Axe whirl works great against rangers, so maybe I can save these effects for later when I need them instead of just wasting them before a fight. The whole F2 + F1 combo thing doesn’t change with this implementaton. Steal has no animation and can be used at any time, even while stunned, knocked down, knocked back, sinking, or floating (except daze). Because of this, it can already be activated during the cast time of an in-use stolen bundle.

Depending on the build, IS’s cooldown is lower than steal. The only time the cooldown on steal is definitively lower than IS’s is when the thief plays 6 deep in trickery to get the steal cooldown reduction and uses Sleight of Hand. Otherwise IS has the lower cooldown.

EremiteAngel.9765:

this is supposed to be a QOL change
not a buff
so we should not allow F2 + F1 combo
[…]
no chance for guard to reliably counter
[…]
true that it can already be done

1. this can already be done: activate the f1 skill you stole when you know that steal is off cooldown again – and press it again quickly to steal while your animation is still on the go
so changing that wouldnt make sense as steal is an instant activation and it will/should work unless they change sth about it – which would be a nerf
as they announced it, its a pure QoL change as a good thief knows at about what time his steal will be off cd again

2. medi guards counter thieves
they counter us at the moment when we can use the steal+stolen skill "op"combo
that wont change with this pure QoL change, all the change does is to show you your cooldown on steal – whats wrong with that?

You can do exactly as described already by hitting F1 twice very quickly. The fact you think that would break the game, yet it already exists, shows you have no idea what you’re talking about.

As stated above me and probably throughout the thread in multiple places, you could already cast the stolen skill and then steal. The only thing that changes is the fact that you can steal without having to use the stolen item now, and you might now not precast only to realize you have 3 seconds left on the steal cooldown.

Oh, and they actually stated some skills will be nerfed to compensate for improvisation, so this QoL change will be accompanied by a simultaneous nerf.

Edit: Forgot a “not”

Maugetarr.6823:

As stated above me and probably throughout the thread in multiple places, you could already cast the stolen skill and then steal. The only thing that changes is the fact that you can steal without having to use the stolen item now, and you might now precast only to realize you have 3 seconds left on the steal cooldown.

Oh, and they actually stated some skills will be nerfed to compensate for improvisation, so this QoL change will be accompanied by a simultaneous nerf.

ah…now i understand…pardon me for my noobness…I had no idea it can already be done…

and yes i hope the nerf on the bundles will help even things out

EremiteAngel.9765:

true that it can already be done with instant blink skills

BUT those are on LONGER cooldowns and don’t give the insane things that a traited LOW COOLDOWN steal does

Make a thief, go pvp. Steal, wait till it’s off cooldown, then hit steal twice while having a target. Magic.