Guild Wars 2

I was wondering how you think they will eventually nerf the dagger/pistol infinite stealth build that is now becoming a raging fotm?

I was trying to think of how they would do it, my only thought was to make it so finishers never trigger if nothing is hit. Would that mess up other aspects of the game though I wonder?

Other thoughts?

I don’t see why they would. The build is only really dangerous as a glass cannon and most of the init regen and stealth needed to have perma stealth takes away from the damage.

FOTM? Only seen 1 thief using this build and that was 3 weeks ago… If every thief was this build, I would probably be very annoyed

I see a lot of them in my match up, most common thief I see lately.

As for why it might get nerfed, mostly because stealth is the biggest source of QQ there is and this build uses stealth more then any other, with no reveal de-buff. I am not saying it is an effective build, but it is high on an annoy non-stealthers factor.

I am bored on a conference call and was just wondering how folks thought it would be nerfed.

dagger pistol inf stealth? what build is taht?

for a dagger pistol thif to get stealth they have to combo black powder and HS, thats 9 ini on its own, way more then double dagger CnD.

and inf stealth? how are they getting that?

i run a dagger/pistol in 3 different builds only one abuses stealth (and has a ton of ini regen to compensate) and even that cant inf stealth.

What are you talking about OP? FOTM? I play D/P and I am the only one that I have seen in quite a while. The whole point of going D/P is so you don’t have to hit someone to enter stealth, that and the added utility. You sacrifice quite a bit of burst to be able to do this. So, yes, it would mess something up.

The build is not that good…

Wolfe.3097:

dagger pistol inf stealth? what build is taht?

for a dagger pistol thif to get stealth they have to combo black powder and HS, thats 9 ini on its own, way more then double dagger CnD.

and inf stealth? how are they getting that?

i run a dagger/pistol in 3 different builds only one abuses stealth (and has a ton of ini regen to compensate) and even that cant inf stealth.

You do it by taking init regen stuff, even the utility signet then use the 180 button or mouse turn fast after each black powder to get 2 more heartseekers over each field it creates. You also can take smoke screen to save BP’s init and heartseeker it 3x for 9 sec and refuge/heal for init free stealth to build back up if you get too low.

Niim.9260:

I was wondering how you think they will eventually nerf the dagger/pistol infinite stealth build that is now becoming a raging fotm?

I was trying to think of how they would do it, my only thought was to make it so finishers never trigger if nothing is hit. Would that mess up other aspects of the game though I wonder?

Other thoughts?

Pff, when? They’ve dropped down to like one balance patch a month, and even those only contain mild tweaks. Regardless of their plans, you have all the time in the world to enjoy it.

Shizzlenit.7648:

The build is not that good…

This. D/P is inventive in how it works, and pulling off lots of stealth without C&D can be impressive, but it isn’t particularly overpowered. The only thing D/P can really pull off better than D/D is trolling around repeatedly stealthing without requiring a target, which isn’t exactly useful, and getting access to headshot, which isn’t easy to leverage when you’re blowing mountains of initiative on getting stealth from an expensive combo field.

D/P was a hit back when you could contest caps in stealth. Right now there is no reason to run D/P over any other weaponset.

that sounds like such a pain to do and still doesnt sound infinite stealth, not too mention a waste in initaitive.

my DP build is capable of hitting almost as hard as the DD backstab build, but is also more sturdy (tho to do that damage i spend more ini). its also better team support.

its why i run it, damage nad team support.

Niim it’s Amy Striss.

There are very few Dagger/Pistol Thieves around, it’s definitely not flavor of the month.

While I consider Dagger/Pistol to be by far the best weapon set for Thieves, it does require high investment in Shadow Arts and Acrobatics, which hurts your damage and necessitates full Berserker equipment. Even then, you’ll never be as deadly as a standard Steal + CnD Backstab Thief (although you’ll still be pretty deadly). It’s a burst build that requires patience: a bit counter-intuitive.

The main selling point of Dagger/Pistol is unparalleled access to stealth and blinds. This allows you to be one of the hardest players to kill on the battlefield; even with full Berserkers. The ability to stealth at virtually any time you want is priceless.

The greatest challenges for Dagger/Pistol are initiative management and positioning. Running out of initiative will kill you, and accidentally hitting someone when you’re trying to stack stealth will kill you. There are more limitations which I cannot remember off the top of my head right now.

The only reason it seemed overpowered in our duel is because I have had a lot of experience with Dagger/Pistol, and because it was a 1v1 duel (Dagger/Pistol is completely superior in 1v1). I am extremely familiar with Dagger/Pistol initiative management and positioning. I don’t think you’ll easily meet another Thief who uses it as well as I do.

OP loses a duel to above poster using D/P and makes a thread asking if they are gonna nerf it because HE perceives it be OP because HE lost to it lmao. Example of many threads in thief forum.

d/p build is to allow backstab thieves to apply constant pressure while gaining more survivability and added team work with blinds and smoke field. i wouldnt think you will see this much outside of tpvp. (its not that noob friendly though any spec works in 8v8 pvp :P )

They nerf Thieves regardless of whether some people are fine with Thieves or not. Just be prepared for the worst is what I would say.

@ Iohanna would you mind sharing your d.p build? i used it for my first 20 ranks in pvp and loved it but havnet used it for such a long time it would be good to see a build from someone who knows the weapon set back to front. thanks

@bomber

Sure, but the builds I have are primarily geared towards WvW. I’m sure adjusting for sPvP wouldn’t be too troublesome though.

Up until yesterday, I have spent over a month with this build:

• http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoa84kcmUOhfOhspoCFKuHOlR1UdKwKrC;TwAg0CnoqxUjoGbNuak1sgYYx2iJEA

There is space for two utilities of your choice. I typically use Blinding Powder and Roll For Initiative, but wise players switch up their utilities depending on the situation.

I use Sword/Dagger as my alternate weapon set, though this sometimes switches to Shortbow for specific WvW situations. Sword/Dagger is in many ways the most powerful weapon set, provided that you don’t miss your Cloak & Daggers. Infiltrator’s Strike and Tactical Strike (stealth attack) are excellent for control. The Sword auto-attack is an extremely powerful 3-target attack. Cloak & Dagger makes up for the lack of a powerful Backstab.

Now what changed yesterday was that I no longer value the Opportunist (20% chance restore initiative on crit) as much as I had, and that I have fallen in love with Withdraw.

So this is my current build, and I believe I’m enjoying far greater performance with it. :

• http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoa84kYmUOhfORw9wpGtpaFoZ3DsaVtC;TwAg0CnoqxUjoGbNuak1sgYYx2iJEA

This build sacrifices the Critical Strikes tree for Mug (in Deadly Arts), Fluid Strikes (in Acrobatics) and Assassin’s Reward (also in Acrobatics). This gives me more power/direct damage, and a lot more healing (I use and regenerate a ton of initiative).

Using Withdraw gives me much more mobility on the battlefield. Combined with Dagger/Pistol antics, Roll for Initiative and Blinding Powder, I can easily trick entire zergs into the wrong direction, as well as easily escape AOE spams. While I no longer have god-mode healing from Signet of Malice during a good Dagger Storm, I am much more capable of surviving a bad Dagger Storm now.

Big numbers are much rarer without Critical Strikes, but my DPS has otherwise been minimally affected. The best part about relying on power instead of precision, is that siege dies much faster now. My perma-stealth abilities make me the ideal candidate for closing in and removing protected siege, and there’s really nothing the enemy can do about it. I can spam Cloak and Dagger to grind away at Trebuchets, use Sword auto-attack to harass the operator as well, and use Black Powder + Heartseeker to stealth without hitting anything.

If there are more questions, I’d be happy to answer. I do wish more people could play Dagger/Pistol.

i run dagger pistol in tpvp now and its amazing i am alot more useful to my team than my previous backstab build which was the cookie cutter one. I really find that what makes it amazing is that with normal backstab sure your burst is amazing but once you pull off your burst you are out of the fight till a team mate can heal you or you can steal from a ranger and cluster bomb the tree. but with this spec you can pull out consistent pressure which is alot more difficult for people to deal wth and you only need to exit the fight for a little to heal from your stealth regen and maybe shadow refuge if needed also with the stealth heal you get a bonus 1k hp healed via being in stealth. and like above poster if you have any questions send me a mail in game or on forums and id be glad to help. but wvw questions definitly ask the guy above me i dont know anything about wvw :P

thanks akumetsu and Iohanna, i will be def giving d/p another try this week.. its funny i honestly cant remember the last time i ran into a d/p thief

i actually use d/p for levelling in pve (still not lvl 80 even tho im rank 32 in pvp) so im quite comfortable with the mechanics

couple questions thouigh..

how do you open? do you just walk right up and drop bp into hs?
do you use shadow shot often?

alot of ppl complain about shadow shot, in that it roots u for a short period of time rendering the skill very crap. . is this true?

which utilities do u usually prefer? im assumiing you dont bother with sos?

thanks!

I personally use D/P almost exclusively. However my build might be a little weird though.

I have a fairly tanky/support build, which is able to give out tons and tons of Poison/Weakness, as well as tons of Regeneration, in addition to extra dodging, blinds, interrupts, and boon removal (I main a Mesmer and love Arcane Thievery, so Bountiful Thief was one of the big reasons why I liked Thief).

@bomber

Shadow Shot does have a brief root after the gap closer. It is unfortunate, however the nice thing is that it is just one of many gap closers you have as a D/P thief. Steal and Heartseaker being the other ones you have for sure, and you can always bring more gap closers (SB5, Shadowstep, only use these if you really need the gap closing as they are much better used defensively). Also that root isn’t very long, I don’t think I’ve actually missed the followup attack in using Shadow Shot due to my target walking away.

I spend most of my initiative on the Blinding Powder + Heartseeker combo (as stealthing gives my build ~7 seconds of Regeneration). I always leave enough initiative for a couple Headshots though (the Mesmer in me absolutely loves the on demand Daze). As my build actually really likes every part of the auto-attack chain, I don’t find that initiative is much of an issue for me.

Being a more tanky Thief, I don’t usually have a problem with just walking up to people, especially if approaching from a blind spot. Although I could see how this wouldn’t be that great of a way to approach for a less durable Thief. But yeah the Blinding Powder + HS is nice, as the enemy will be trying to get away from the BP AoE, and your logical followup happens to be a medium range gap closer (gap closer that gives stealth which would be very handy for Backstab Thieves).

As for the utilities I use (if you are interested), I use Shadow Step (I love close range teleport stunbreakers) which also gives condition removal, Spider Venom (applies like 40 seconds of poison and 20 seconds of Weakness for my build, which I like to do after I see my target use up their condition removal, or hit several targets to spread out the debuffs), and Shadow Refuge (because it seems brokenly good).

The biggest reason for why I use D/P though is because it fits my specific build very well. The auto attack chain has a high volume of attacks, returns endurance and gives several seconds of poison/weakness. HS (leap) and SS are both decent gap closers. Pistol4 for the Daze and Pistol5 for the Blind/combo field.

Again my build might be a little weird, so wait for other people’s opinion on D/P to better inform yourself. But that’s just a little information I can provide for your questions.

i use this build for pve it is my favorite for D/P
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlUmCO3cy9E95Ex2je6TeypIpGtTxVtKA

My only full exotic set is condition dmg based so I’m pigeon holed in my possible secs. I want to work on a zerker set but it’s so kitten expensive. It will happen someday just by playing as long as I don’t get sidetracked by some fancy skin or something. If I got a zerk set d/p would be the first spec I’d try out.

I doubt it’s as good as p/d for 1vN though. When I fight them they are a pain to kill but usually not too much of a threat. I’ve never had a good 1 on 1 with one but when they try to 1vN an I’m in the N they go down the same as d/d ele’s from removing mobility.

I have to exit combat to change utilities in order to have a chance to finish them though. Rootspam works well. Rootvenom, Scorp wire, blinding powder with swapping to shortbow#1 for roots with Hide in Shadows and Blinding powder, and just clusterbomb spam where you rooted them.

when i get time later this evening ill repost my “blind thief” build i posted a few months back. I believe its still relevant to this game as when i use it, outside of a stun train from half or more of hte opposing team i dont die.

blinds out the wazoo, automatied defense response, regeneration adn stealth abuse.