Guild Wars 2

I never thought id be the one to complain about thief seeing as I mained it for the longest time before HoT but this new staff acro dodge spam meta is so stupid, idk how you can nerf it but like acro needs a nerf.

Wait, you mean spam-able defenses aren’t fun and aren’t good design for GW2? Who’d have ever thought?!

/s

DeceiverX.8361:

Wait, you mean spam-able defenses aren’t fun and aren’t good design for GW2? Who’d have ever thought?!

/s

Some people like particle effects, some people like animations. It’s a build like any other, would you rather play lazer tag all day?

kash.9213:

Some people like particle effects, some people like animations. It’s a build like any other, would you rather play lazer tag all day?

Like real-life legitimate Laser tag? Hell yea I would. It’s too cost-prohibitive to do that, though.

DeceiverX.8361:

kash.9213:

Some people like particle effects, some people like animations. It’s a build like any other, would you rather play lazer tag all day?

Like real-life legitimate Laser tag? Hell yea I would. It’s too cost-prohibitive to do that, though.

I would dodge spam because I have bad aim until I get close enough to pull their shirt over their head and blast them point blank. Some of us have to build around our strengths or lack thereof.

kash.9213:

DeceiverX.8361:

kash.9213:

Some people like particle effects, some people like animations. It’s a build like any other, would you rather play lazer tag all day?

Like real-life legitimate Laser tag? Hell yea I would. It’s too cost-prohibitive to do that, though.

I would dodge spam because I have bad aim until I get close enough to pull their shirt over their head and blast them point blank. Some of us have to build around our strengths or lack thereof.

Which is fine, but a build should never carry a player. What you described was a tactic, not a build.

Overcoming said weakness would be equivalent to putting a lens over the gun to amplify the beam due to said bad aim, which gives an innate advantage and makes the game less fun for everyone except the lamer who only gets off from winning with ease.

DeceiverX.8361:

Which is fine, but a build should never carry a player. What you described was a tactic, not a build.

Overcoming said weakness would be equivalent to putting a lens over the gun to amplify the beam due to said bad aim, which gives an innate advantage and makes the game less fun for everyone except the lamer who only gets off from winning with ease.

That was kind of the point of my bit, thought it was in tune with the thread. Still, It’s a synergy of the class right now and between weapon skill, sigil, rune, and stat choices some builds are just going to be heavy with dodge and evades as consequence even if that’s not the aspect their exactly going for. Sure it sucks that the meta isn’t as deliberate as it could be and that’s created a smoke bomb around narrowing down what needs to be fixed or balanced but in response to OP, much of the time it’s less about a player jumping on some bandwagon and more about a culmination of build choices. Some builds on here push the guaranteed DD rune crit, they have to dodge to get it, lot of catch 22’s in this game.

5-2 d/p meta is way more lame though

“Staff acro dodge thief is op. I don’t know what makes it op or how to nerf it but its op trust me.”

If reasonable evidence can’t be provided, then you can’t really make a claim like that.

alchemyst.2165:

“Staff acro dodge thief is op. I don’t know what makes it op or how to nerf it but its op trust me.”

If reasonable evidence can’t be provided, then you can’t really make a claim like that.

I didn’t think I’d need to prove my point seeing as most people already know what I’m talking about. Also I the whole premise of the thread was that the amount of dodges were stupid, but it looks like you’re not fully understanding what I’m trying to say so let me explain it more simply.

Acro thief can dodge too much.

Alveen.7239:

this new staff acro dodge spam meta is so stupid, idk how you can nerf it but like acro needs a nerf.

dodge spam, block spam, invulnerability spam, aegis spam, heal spam, resist spam etc.

welcome to GW2 — pick up your canned food an enjoy your meal.

lol even tho there is no such thing as a dodge spam xD
unlike all your shilds we can only dodge one more time and a tiny bit faster but that is nothing in comparison to your endless shields , invulnerability, resist and ofc aoe stuns

rather get rid of 50% of the shields then dodge… unlike you a thief doesn’t even take 3 hits to get killed x’D

cant be more lame than u doing 11111111111111111111111111111 then stealth run away lol

Gingerbread man has never been and never will be the meta….but I still love it

Alveen.7239:

alchemyst.2165:

“Staff acro dodge thief is op. I don’t know what makes it op or how to nerf it but its op trust me.”

If reasonable evidence can’t be provided, then you can’t really make a claim like that.

I didn’t think I’d need to prove my point seeing as most people already know what I’m talking about. Also I the whole premise of the thread was that the amount of dodges were stupid, but it looks like you’re not fully understanding what I’m trying to say so let me explain it more simply.

Acro thief can dodge too much.

X specialization of Y Class can Z too much. This has been true for pretty much every class ever since HoT. Nerfing thief would cause it to become supbar relative to other classes once again.

Now, if powercreep were to be toned down equally across all classes, that would be a smarter move for the game without hurting comparative strength across classes. Relative balance is fairly decent right now (much better than before). Thief is stronger now, but not op.

You’re also talking about a build that’s really only used in duels, and the game isn’t designed around dueling.

alchemyst.2165:

Alveen.7239:

alchemyst.2165:

“Staff acro dodge thief is op. I don’t know what makes it op or how to nerf it but its op trust me.”

If reasonable evidence can’t be provided, then you can’t really make a claim like that.

I didn’t think I’d need to prove my point seeing as most people already know what I’m talking about. Also I the whole premise of the thread was that the amount of dodges were stupid, but it looks like you’re not fully understanding what I’m trying to say so let me explain it more simply.

Acro thief can dodge too much.

X specialization of Y Class can Z too much. This has been true for pretty much every class ever since HoT. Nerfing thief would cause it to become supbar relative to other classes once again.

Now, if powercreep were to be toned down equally across all classes, that would be a smarter move for the game without hurting comparative strength across classes. Relative balance is fairly decent right now (much better than before). Thief is stronger now, but not op.

You’re also talking about a build that’s really only used in duels, and the game isn’t designed around dueling.

daheck are you talking about… thief is stronger? best joke ever dude

as a thief you always have to play your class 2 times better then your opponend in order to have an even chance of winning a 1v1. the amount of skill level you need to play a thief is much higher then with any other class and thats not what balance is nor should be….

between even players a thief will always underpeform.

it is a joke now how much work a thief has to do for getting a kill. unlike other classes which simply stand there put on a shield and deal more dmg then a thief without any risk at all…

ppl complaining about a thief running… he can’t do anything else because a thief dies within 2 hits while other classes can take more and are dealing more dmg then a theif does with bs…
srsly bs deals ~4k dmg crit on those testing golems (and yes i’m useing the current meta build for thief)
other classes deal more dmg and don’t have the risk of dying in an instand
a thief can’t last long in close combat and its range capabilities are flat out a joke
that means there is no dps for a thief (i’m aware his AA was buffed but that was more like a ghost nerf instead of a buff to the thief )
bursting is also a nogo because of all those shields so they simply heal back their 4k hp they lost from a bs and on top of that ppl who are inside their bubble can still attack so they don’t even have a risk of dying.

Not really. I don’t think you understand just how ridiculous daredevil is.

The thief is only an “under-performer” in sPvP because of the amulet system. I’ve proved it countless times that no matter what happens to the profession, it will be mathematically inferior because of the amulet system’s stat distribution/allocation system and how scaling vs static bonus effects do not perform on a similar level as a consequence.

WvW, where the thief has access to the stats it needs to scale properly, however, is a totally different story. The meta build should be stabbing roughly 8k on heavies there. Hyper-aggressive builds, for example, start stabbing closer to 20.

I kept getting ganked last night in WvW on my core thief/main build/character that I’ve put several thousand hours into. So I switched to my daredevil.

Running around 2/3 of the health of my main character and using exotics, I started winning 1v4. Then 1v6. Then 1v8. It got to a point where I couldn’t kill anyone on the sole basis that their resurrection speed and group sustain was too much such that I couldn’t finish anyone, and with a few more people I eventually did start wiping from the sheer number of incoming DH pulls.

Daredevil as a profession/elite spec is tremendously easy and forgiving to play. Of all the elite specs, I’d argue it’s probably tied for first if not first in how high its skill floor is.

And everyone knows backstab is terrible and a waste of effort with the ICD, and even before that with the raised AA damage it was still not worth it. And in sPvP, even before that with HoT giving all professions backstab-level damage coefficients on normal abilities it wasn’t worth it, and before that with the AoE cleave and sustain-amulet builds running rampant it didn’t deal enough damage to justify taking the risk of going all-in to try and land an unreliable skill. Shadow Shot or PI will in most cases do similar damage but more reliably and with attached control effects.

Nenshoukarasu.6598:

lol even tho there is no such thing as a dodge spam xD
unlike all your shilds we can only dodge one more time and a tiny bit faster but that is nothing in comparison to your endless shields , invulnerability, resist and ofc aoe stuns

rather get rid of 50% of the shields then dodge… unlike you a thief doesn’t even take 3 hits to get killed x’D

I don’t know why everyone assumes I play a DH or something but I main thief/power mes. Acro dodges are stupid at the moment and saying it can’t keep up with other classes doesn’t mean that it’s impossible, It’s more a case of l2play imo.

Alveen.7239:

Nenshoukarasu.6598:

lol even tho there is no such thing as a dodge spam xD
unlike all your shilds we can only dodge one more time and a tiny bit faster but that is nothing in comparison to your endless shields , invulnerability, resist and ofc aoe stuns

rather get rid of 50% of the shields then dodge… unlike you a thief doesn’t even take 3 hits to get killed x’D

I don’t know why everyone assumes I play a DH or something but I main thief/power mes. Acro dodges are stupid at the moment and saying it can’t keep up with other classes doesn’t mean that it’s impossible, It’s more a case of l2play imo.

if l2p means to you that you have to shieldspam all the time and beeing invulnerable to any dmg while dealing imense dmg with simply a button click then lol

fyi it has nothing to do with l2p at all … 2 ppl with the same skill lvl … thief will always underpeform… doesn’t matter if pvp pve or wvw as a thief you’ll die in an instand once you enter close combat so all you can do is step in make 2 hits tops and run away and hope for your enemie that he doesn’t use a bubble or kills you while you are trying to reenter the battle…
heck there are even skills that still target a thief while he is invisible. 3 dodges is nice but doesn’t nowhere compensate for all those shielspam thats going on right now.

i don’t say its impossible but as a thief you always have to be 2 times better then your enemy … even as a damage dealer you get outpeformed due having to run away all the time or else you die… the range option is laughable as well

people won’t be satisfied until thief has a cooldown on everything but crafting

I find stealth lame and prefer dodge. I guess we’re at a standoff.

Mahkno.7593:

people won’t be satisfied until thief has a cooldown on everything but crafting

It’s not that. The daredevil is just conceptually lame and carries terrible players.

DeceiverX.8361:

It’s not that. The daredevil is just conceptually lame and carries terrible players.

nah. lots of folks like the concept, and anyway ‘everything but my build carries terrible players…’ amirite?

Mahkno.7593:

DeceiverX.8361:

It’s not that. The daredevil is just conceptually lame and carries terrible players.

nah. lots of folks like the concept, and anyway ‘everything but my build carries terrible players…’ amirite?

If you say so. I know a lot of people aren’t fond of it (at least, at one point people who weren’t; they’ve all largely quit). When I can start winning massively outnumbreed fights by throwing on a trait line, and when many thieves take it off and can’t do virtually anything, I think there’s a problem.

DeceiverX.8361:

Not really. I don’t think you understand just how ridiculous daredevil is.

The thief is only an “under-performer” in sPvP because of the amulet system. I’ve proved it countless times that no matter what happens to the profession, it will be mathematically inferior because of the amulet system’s stat distribution/allocation system and how scaling vs static bonus effects do not perform on a similar level as a consequence.

WvW, where the thief has access to the stats it needs to scale properly, however, is a totally different story. The meta build should be stabbing roughly 8k on heavies there. Hyper-aggressive builds, for example, start stabbing closer to 20.

I kept getting ganked last night in WvW on my core thief/main build/character that I’ve put several thousand hours into. So I switched to my daredevil.

Running around 2/3 of the health of my main character and using exotics, I started winning 1v4. Then 1v6. Then 1v8. It got to a point where I couldn’t kill anyone on the sole basis that their resurrection speed and group sustain was too much such that I couldn’t finish anyone, and with a few more people I eventually did start wiping from the sheer number of incoming DH pulls.

Daredevil as a profession/elite spec is tremendously easy and forgiving to play. Of all the elite specs, I’d argue it’s probably tied for first if not first in how high its skill floor is.

And everyone knows backstab is terrible and a waste of effort with the ICD, and even before that with the raised AA damage it was still not worth it. And in sPvP, even before that with HoT giving all professions backstab-level damage coefficients on normal abilities it wasn’t worth it, and before that with the AoE cleave and sustain-amulet builds running rampant it didn’t deal enough damage to justify taking the risk of going all-in to try and land an unreliable skill. Shadow Shot or PI will in most cases do similar damage but more reliably and with attached control effects.

Yknow, from all ur forum posts saying this is op and that is op about thief, i always got the impression u died to a thief and came ranting here about it. Tbh, I always pictured u to be a skill clicking signet thief but ur 1v8 claim got me curious. Ik in the lower tiers, it’s definately possible but I have never seen a thief win a 1v8.

Anyways since u can win a 1v8 very easily, a 1v6 should be absolutely no problem, shouldn’t even take u a day to record. Can u please post a recording? And please, no text of irrelevant stuff like usual, a simple link will do.

Ill be waiting.

I’ll see what I can do, but you might need to wait a week since I’m up against BG and JQ and the smallest group aside from 2-3 stray pugs I’ve seen so far since reset is around 25.

As far as winning 1v8 “easily” – no, it wasn’t easy. The fact is that such a thing can even be done is ridiculous and is entirely attributed to Daredevil enabling it.

Edit:

I almost just had a 1v5 clip for you (3 downs), unfortunately trying for a group with two chronos led to quad moa and well, you know the rest ._.

DeceiverX.8361:

I’ll see what I can do, but you might need to wait a week since I’m up against BG and JQ and the smallest group aside from 2-3 stray pugs I’ve seen so far since reset is around 25.

As far as winning 1v8 “easily” – no, it wasn’t easy. The fact is that such a thing can even be done is ridiculous and is entirely attributed to Daredevil enabling it.

Edit:

I almost just had a 1v5 clip for you (3 downs), unfortunately trying for a group with two chronos led to quad moa and well, you know the rest ._.

I hardly consider myself I top tier player but I have done much the same on a core build thief without DD , that being fighting 5 or 6 and downing several with difficlties on the stomp. (due to constant rezzing). This due to the ability to stealth over the dodge. I have done much the same on my warrior even without zerker.

Just the other day I fought three d/p thieves, at once downing and stomping two and seeing the other run off. They were poor players. This with my p/d core build. One guy I hit died to a single steal/condition load. Apparently his only cleanse was EA allowing me to simply ignore him and shift to another target once i loaded those conditions on.

In WvW I have found groups of people used to following the Zerg that were just hopeless in smaller scale fights. The quality of player is all over the place and can make any build look potent when used against them. These are the types against whom a vault spam can work wonders whereas that same vault spam against a single good player will get you killed. Again I reiterate that am maybe average or above average and suggest if I can do these things , then a player of much greater skill can do even better.

In order to back your assertions as to the OP nature of DD (which for the most part I do nt agree with) you have to demonstrate constantly winning such victories against players that have some skill and familiarity with a given build. I have come across builds I have not seen before that have torn my normal build to shreds. This did mean mean they were OP. I went at them several times over until I understood what they were doing this in turn allowing me to do better against them with either the same build used beofre, or one with slight tweaks.

There are also builds across all classes that will fare better against your own build or make your own build constantly underperform against the same. This again does not translate to those builds being OP or too easy.

Of course, which is why I do not record/share my play to begin with. I had a 1v13 sometime near launch, which was an extremely awesome fight and I played well (at the time), but the fact of the matter is reflecting on the fight afterwards, I wasn’t even upset I didn’t record it as I initially was; the caliber of player I was against didn’t really say much; it’d be like bragging about winning outnumbered fights in PvE (not to sound rude, but you get my point).

Such videos are usually not average representations of the general skill level of the recorder – typically they’re just highlights of playing well or in a lot of cases, the opponents misplaying. I just had an absolutely embarrassing fight against a Gunflame warrior, as probably many people have had and have still. There are so many variables floating around with player skill, the occasional bit of luck, unknown mis-timings, etc. that it’s pretty hard to tell, generally speaking, what constitutes a “proper” enemy to begin with. If I record a “great play” I made and someone like Sindrener or Toker looks at the footage, they’d be in a position to call out the enemy for not playing well in most cases, because they’re just that much better. The “proper” enemy by my standards may be considerably weaker or stronger than others’. We’re all on different skill levels and experiences with the thief, our builds, and other professions. Every kit, trait combination, gear mixture, and opponent will provoke a different response from each player. I’m a terrible Berserker and DH player, and always have been, but does it make those professions any weaker? No. It means I’m not good at those professions because there’s something about them I do not find inherently as intuitive as the thief.

Like those who do post videos, I have no means of refuting an argument on the basis that “my opponents were bad” unless Pro-league players of my opponents’ respective classes come out and verify that they also played reasonably well after examining the footage. Odds are they’re not going to do that, and even more realistically is that I’m nowhere near good enough to fight outnumbered against so many verifiably “good” players, all playing well, all at once.

I never said the Daredevil was overpowered. I want to make that distinction right now. I don’t think it is, frankly – not at least to the rest of the elites per se. I said I think it is very forgiving and has the highest skill floor of the elite specs, and enables play that the core thief simply can’t compare to. The Daredevil is ridiculous because the calculative nature of core thief is so vastly reduced at every level except of professional play because so much of the risk otherwise is removed. There’s a big difference between something being overpowered and something being easy and forgiving or simply stronger than something else. If Daredevil wasn’t so much stronger than core, and so much easier to play, we’d see a pretty friendly mix of thieves and daredevils, similar to how Necros/Reapers are represented fairly well. This is innate to the Daredevil by its nature by just simply giving more to the core spec, and why I dislike its design in general. Most of my grievances come from design issues with the core thief in terms of what I think is over/under-tuned. All Daredevil does it make it easier to bypass the risks innate to the thief in general – which is exactly the contradiction I first said responding to the person who said that the Daredevil requires so much more skill than other specs/professions. I don’t think it does, not because it’s OP, but because I simply think the spec itself allows relatively inept players to do much better than otherwise on core thief. In essence, I think it takes roughly the same amount of skill on what I deem an “average” player to do just as well as anyone else playing another profession, if not a little bit less.

So I guess before I could possibly post anything, I’d need more criteria on what kind of opponents Sidewinder wants me to be up against. Against six objectively highly-skilled individuals? Probably not happening. I don’t think anyone could do that, not even the best in the game. I can make a video about how forgiving Daredevil is to play by doing stupid things like diving 60-man zergs and getting away, recordings of duels against measurably-skilled opponents and comparing my performance on both, analyzing misplay footage, etc. Whether or not I can find a group of six opponents while playing Daredevil, record fighting them, and evaluate whether they were “skilled enough” or not, and then verify they were “reasonable” players is to be determined, and something I don’t likely see happening any time soon (at least not this week), considering I don’t even like to play Daredevil and only play it when I get flustered from being repeatedly ganked and need something I can more-readily secure a win with.

Personally? I just find Daredevil / Staff gameplay to be insanely dull.

Just autoattack, evade a few times, press 5, repeat.

Mind you, I only play PvE because I’ve sucked at PvP since the GW1 days.

Dodge spam, block spam, and invuln spam need to be toned down.
When classes have rotations for taking no damage for extended periods of time while still doing damage, it becomes a game of who can cycle their invulns the best. It also locks out builds that aren’t immune to damage, because they can’t do anything while the enemy is invulnerable or evading.

Pretty sure you was able to zerg dive before when when shadow arts

Would really love to see DeceiverX’s 1v8 gameplay vid, can’t wait.

Personally (as a daredevil facing other elite specs) the most I’ve managed to beat and stomp simultaneously in WVW was 1v3 on power build and 1v4 on condi build (and they were all clumped up capping a sentry point). These were all really average to bad players though, they had to be, because I suck righteously and I was able to beat a group of them.

I’ve also had one 1v5 I won, but that was like in a bad Kung-foo (typical spelling replaced by kitten) movie where they all run up 1 by 1 and get their kitten kicked because they refuse to stop ressing their downed friends and get interrupt spammed.

Yeah, all this buzz about winning outnumbered fights doesn’t seem to be a big deal to me, considering I’ve 2v10d before HoT with core thief and won plenty of other types of outnumbered fights with it. All you really need to win an outnumbered fight is higher intelligence than the players you’re facing. Pretty much any class can do it- this isn’t some ridiculous thing that only daredevils can do. “I won an outnumbered fight with my class, it must be op!” No, you were just a person facing bad players and beating them. That’s what most outnumbered fights are.

I may repeat myself but dodge/block/blind combination of daredevil is so annoying for a backstab thief, near to impossible to make a backstab. Stealth/spike vs Dodge/burst makes Dodge/burst to win if skill of player and build/rotation use abilities are at same level. I say this after playing thief for 3 years in WvW. I support DeceiverX last post about thief/DD play forgiveness and player skill determination issue. In WvW 9/10 are daredevils. Majority of them D/P SB and some are D/P Staff.

There is a reason though why 9/10 are dd now. Because as previously said, run dd and you can do wonders, run core and you can’t do anything (unless you play yolo 12k+backstab builds)

In my yolo experience against a very good Daredevils you need to do 15k+ backstabs to kill them. Because their bursts make you hurt and 1 backstab per 20-30 seconds does not put them down. Also they regen pretty quick.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

There is a reason though why 9/10 are dd now. Because as previously said, run dd and you can do wonders, run core and you can’t do anything (unless you play yolo 12k+backstab builds)

It’s perma BOUND spam which is lame. Dodge should be a defensive mechanic, the fact that it’s both 100% damage mitigation and 3-4k area suppression and 10% damage increase, AND a leap finisher means you’d be a fool not to take it.

It is for all these reasons that d/p+bound+x builds are everywhere. You don’t even need acro, just take physical skills and bounti theft and you have enough endurance regen to perma dodge (and perma stealth..). Truely the only thing acro gives you is a get out of jail free card, and swiftness.

It is for these reasons that I’ve recently uninstalled the game, first time since launch. I hope to be back, but likely this will be my final forum visit for quite some time. I had hoped for some balance change in the ‘quarterly’ (4+ months is not a quarter) update, but here we are.

Please enjoy d/p bound meta until perhaps things change next expansion. I find it boring, but unfortunately necessary to beat other d/p bound and/or the other power-creep classes.

Kr,

Kole

^ bye

dd & bound are fine. all the hot elites are way overpowered if the measure is the base professions. anet will have to manage the powercreep and balance the base professions by bringing them up to par with the hot elites.

pls stop trying to get thief nerfed again and again. there’s too little build diversity already we don’t want less.

It can be dull and boring, that’s true. At the same time, it’s a build that’s tailored for fighting at least 3 people.

I do not think it’s as challenging as fighting +3 with D/P.

Staff, D/P is heavily relies on people’s mistakes, more so than other weapon sets. When you fight a people for about a minute (which is pretty long imo) or so , you can notice your opponents get confused between the normal bound and a Vault:

One hits you for 2k which you can afford, whereas the other one is just plain deadly.

In all honesty, I think winning anything +4 is a matter of luck (big mistakes from your targets, and nice Improvisation procs), unless of course, you are just stealthing for days and come back.

I would rather be an ordinary D/P thief who shines, than a constant perma-frustration dodge staff daredevil. I always enjoy fighting them. I guess it depends what you are looking for.

I usually win 1v30 fights too but sometimes my backstab only does 19k not 20k any thief tips deceiver?

Menyus.4610:

I usually win 1v30 fights too but sometimes my backstab only does 19k not 20k any thief tips deceiver?

Do more squats. Strong glutes helps support your dagger thrusts by unifying your arm, back and leg strength. Sturdy bunz are the key to backstab efficiency.

Out of curiosity, what is the build that is used?

Apparently core power d/d.

A single attack can generate well over 10k in damage with regularity. This need not wait on the next cooldown or next batch of INI to replenish as multiple attacks from varying utilities/skills can generate this sort of damge.

With the low health that is available to the thief , they had better dodge more then one or two or three attakcs in a row or they are dead. Before the complaints about “dodge spam” there were complaints about “blind spam” and complaints about “stealth spam” All of these builds came not because of exploits or because of the OP nature of the same but because the thief was adapting to changing circumstances on the ground to find that balance of survibability and ability to inflict damage. Those dodges/blinds/stealths are how they survive.

By DESIGN these are the things a thiefs survival built around. A warrior can absorb far more damage due to armor, vitality and health regen via adrenal and healing signet. We do not see any of this in game because none of these are active skills. That armor just “happens” . The thief on the other hand has to ACT in order to trigger the greatest portion of his or her defenses. This act can be a dodge or a stealth or a blind.

That is by DESIGN. It an underlying mechanic of the game and one of the attractions of the thief class. We can not rely on armor and health to protect us, or some passive kicking in, we have to actively perfrom an action to avoid damage (In this case dodge)

I do not see even the dodge spam thief dominate at any level, be it WvW , PvE , or the PvP that I am aware of. It does not make them invulnerable and they can still drop quickly if they miss a dodge, are stunned or Immobbed.

I do not see any real issue here. That the technique used to avoid damage appears on the screen as an action results in the appearance of “spam”. Other forms of defense require no action thus giving less perception of “spam” on that classes part.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Apparently core power d/d.

No I think DD is in the traits. If I had to guess, it’d be Acro/Trick/DD with Staff and D/d weapons. I’d like to know the details of the build though.

1v8….. uhhhh… it is theoretically possible I guess but sounds like bull-kitten. 1v4 is a hard fight and usually has a thief running away. Heck 1v2 with a bunker Tempest and a power Warrior or Guardian is a near impossible fight. Jump on a pack of VOX and tell me I am wrong.

In the dueling community Staff thief typically gets torn a new one 1v1. I haven’t seen one win consistently yet and I duel pretty much every day. I find them ridiculously easy to kill most of the time since Vault has a huge hole in it and only the best are dangerous to good players.

In skirmish teams, they can be muscle but have no overlapping skills to elevate the team. This is why crews like tRex never run them. They are functionally useless in a zerg as are most thieves.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Apparently core power d/d.

No I think DD is in the traits. If I had to guess, it’d be Acro/Trick/DD with Staff and D/d weapons. I’d like to know the details of the build though.

The trait lines are the build for the most part, all of the builds I’ve seen posted here for that archetype vary, mostly depending on preference for damage or utility. Either way, the build comes down to gaining momentum spending Initiative and Endurance to in turn feed both back to you and the more bad guys piling on you the better.

kash.9213:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Apparently core power d/d.

No I think DD is in the traits. If I had to guess, it’d be Acro/Trick/DD with Staff and D/d weapons. I’d like to know the details of the build though.

The trait lines are the build for the most part, all of the builds I’ve seen posted here for that archetype vary, mostly depending on preference for damage or utility. Either way, the build comes down to gaining momentum spending Initiative and Endurance to in turn feed both back to you and the more bad guys piling on you the better.

You are partially correct there. While the Gingerbread Man build does get better with more enemies you quickly get diminishing returns. Typically about 4 randoms is where your diminishing returns start kicking in with non random groups causing the diminishing returns to kick in much quicker. of course depending on the classes you are facing you will notice some fluctuations.

babazhook.6805:

A single attack can generate well over 10k in damage with regularity. This need not wait on the next cooldown or next batch of INI to replenish as multiple attacks from varying utilities/skills can generate this sort of damge.

With the low health that is available to the thief , they had better dodge more then one or two or three attakcs in a row or they are dead. Before the complaints about “dodge spam” there were complaints about “blind spam” and complaints about “stealth spam” All of these builds came not because of exploits or because of the OP nature of the same but because the thief was adapting to changing circumstances on the ground to find that balance of survibability and ability to inflict damage. Those dodges/blinds/stealths are how they survive.

By DESIGN these are the things a thiefs survival built around. A warrior can absorb far more damage due to armor, vitality and health regen via adrenal and healing signet. We do not see any of this in game because none of these are active skills. That armor just “happens” . The thief on the other hand has to ACT in order to trigger the greatest portion of his or her defenses. This act can be a dodge or a stealth or a blind.

That is by DESIGN. It an underlying mechanic of the game and one of the attractions of the thief class. We can not rely on armor and health to protect us, or some passive kicking in, we have to actively perfrom an action to avoid damage (In this case dodge)

I do not see even the dodge spam thief dominate at any level, be it WvW , PvE , or the PvP that I am aware of. It does not make them invulnerable and they can still drop quickly if they miss a dodge, are stunned or Immobbed.

I do not see any real issue here. That the technique used to avoid damage appears on the screen as an action results in the appearance of “spam”. Other forms of defense require no action thus giving less perception of “spam” on that classes part.

My thoughts exactly. . . . +1