Guild Wars 2

Comparing to other class like nec, warrior, ele and engi etc. thief’s burst damage is too low considering they are very squishy, lower hp, it’s a rule now, if there are two thieves in a team, it’s a sure lose. I had backstab at 2k on CRITICAL !! behind target a lot times, the best backstab is around 6k, when a nec can hit 3500 three time in a row in 3 sec, a warrior can hit 9k in one action, not mention ele and engi, the game is full of AOE damage and CC. if you notice, every pvp game, thieves are the one who is killed the most.

2133 power, 200% cir damage, 26600, d/p, also tried 26006, 60206 etc.

From what I have been reading on these forums. The Thief has literally been nerf’d into the ground and unplayable in PvP.

You are right, the game is full of easy mode AoE and CC, Condi builds etc that deal way more damage than a skill shot like back stab. I think if you are wanting a melee play Warrior, if you want a stealth toon play Ranger. Thief is dead.

Anet won’t improve either (dmg or survivability) cos:

1. Few top pvp thieves still rekt some other classes/builds.
2. Stealth (the ultimate excuse for anything).
3. The ease with which we can re-apply dmg, aka spammability of our skills.

i thought dp meta is 26006

also your lack of dmg is probably b/c you hit them from the front and not the back, as well as lack of dmg from traits you chose >.>

or maybe you hit a bunker war with 4k armor and someone gave him protection

either way simply providing a couple numbers in a thread when thief is still one of the most prevalent classes to have in a team comp isn’t going to sway anet to buff thiefs any time soon.

Thieves are really weak. BUT saying Thieves are dead is just stupid.. Whoever thinks Thieves are dead, then don’t play the class.

I feel you man… i feel you. You need to be EXTREMELY careful when fighting certain classes. But yeah 6k backstab really do not do us justice. :/ I also agree that Stealth doesn’t even help if you keep hitting very low.

The problem with thieves is this: the longer the fight, the lesser your chances of survival.
Obvisouly, low hits and damages naturally drags the fight on.

Just make it as short as possible.

Let’s just hope, Anet solves this soon.

Dagger Thief is in an interesting place at the moment. The meta currently is stacked against it.

Sustain comps and random damage from aoe can make it challenging to find proper openings that ultimately end up meaningful, but there are still plenty of openings that happen.

There’s no easy advice I can give, other than be aware of cool-downs, numbers, and positioning. Don’t put yourself in positions where you’ll get focused easily, but simultaneously keep yourself in position to be dealing damage.

Dagger Pistol thief IMO has been the most unforgiving meta build for a while, but if you play right it has some of the highest payoff in the game.

Check out Caed’s stream for top tier D/P play
twitch.tv/narcarsis

SinisterWraith.2910:

From what I have been reading on these forums. The Thief has literally been nerf’d into the ground and unplayable in PvP.

You are right, the game is full of easy mode AoE and CC, Condi builds etc that deal way more damage than a skill shot like back stab. I think if you are wanting a melee play Warrior, if you want a stealth toon play Ranger. Thief is dead.

Wait, what? Ez mode? I wonder who has ez mode. If you want to find out who has it “easy” play my zerker staff ele full of AoE and CC and I’ll play your thief build. We will see who has it “easy” when I can reset all the fights I want, flee without possibly being caught and start any fight with a 50% head start on life points because I destroyed that much of your life pool before you even knew I was there…

That post is just ridiculous. I can understand some frustration after some nerfs but this is just shameful.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Anet won’t improve either (dmg or survivability) cos:

1. Few top pvp thieves still rekt some other classes/builds.
2. Stealth (the ultimate excuse for anything).
3. The ease with which we can re-apply dmg, aka spammability of our skills.

I know you’re not making those points, simply re-iterating…
I’m pretty sure all of them have been fended off by the thief community – minus the OP STEALTHZORS (which is like saying “TERROR” during the george bush era)

Theif is suppose to be the Rogue of gw2 instead all people complain about anymore is how they run away and pvp is all celestial dd godmode eles and engineers there is nothing theif can do to kill them and during top team interview with the balance team all the classes they play got buffed and everyone else nerfed except for theif. The theif streamer was incredibly masohistic because he believe the class is op when it can gank low hp targets. and as a result nerf to larcenous strike and immobilize trait? anyone even use it ? and so much else. When dd ele get too much of everything.
dps / control / support AIO to the extremes. But nooo that is balanced. Firegrab that hits for twice as much as backstab and dosent require you to hit from behind.

fire grab can be a face melter – “borrowed pic”

caveman.5840:

fire grab can be a face melter

But… can he (you as ele) use OP STEALTHZORS?
how many times can he evade?
There you go, justified 37k hit. Use it, abuse it, no one will care since it’s not “OP”. Can’t fight this case, since it’s based on STEALTHZORS being OP.

Zero Day.2594:

caveman.5840:

fire grab can be a face melter

But… can he (you as ele) use OP STEALTHZORS?

Yeah but the thing is stealth dosen’t win fights if the theif have to run away then thats his loss you lose the point for you’re team.
Ele is plenty fast ride the lightning , burning speed , lightning flash Its enough to gain some distance and get to safety so true theif is slightly better when it comes to hiding but that is the ONLY thing they are better at. Ele is also best tank to conditions and one of the best to directs while still having crazy high burst. The nerf to critical damage just amplified the problem even further.
Forcing thieves to use sword and then nerf sword even more.

tom.7468:

Zero Day.2594:

caveman.5840:

fire grab can be a face melter

But… can he (you as ele) use OP STEALTHZORS?

Yeah but the thing is stealth dosen’t win fights if the theif have to run away then thats his loss you lose the point for you’re team.
Ele is plenty fast ride the lightning , burning speed , lightning flash Its enough to gain some distance and get to safety so true theif is slightly better when it comes to hiding but that is the ONLY thing they are better at. Ele is also best tank to conditions and one of the best to directs while still having crazy high burst. The nerf to critical damage just amplified the problem even further.
Forcing thieves to use sword and then nerf sword even more.

Woah, woah… applying some reasoning as to why things are the way they are, that’s beyond me and most people. So let’s go back to how STEALTHZORS is OP, I think I and most QQ’ers make a valid case when we say that.

Yea sure who care about balance as long as theif can never kill a player again.

tom.7468:

Yea sure who care about balance as long as theif can never kill a player again.

Exactly! That is “balance”. (For some)

tom.7468:

Yea sure who care about balance as long as theif can never kill a player again.

Well, unless you only hit on bunker builds I assure you that thief has no problem killing others. None at all.

Sure, I don’t play the flavor of the month meta celestial d/d but let’s not push the ridiculous more than it already is. Heck, I find the d/d celestial ele less dangerous to my staff ele than pretty much any thief. Being killed by a d/d ele also isn’t as annoying… by FAR.

Don’t pick on thief’s stealth, some other class can stealth too, like rangers and engi, some ranger can even stealth longer than a thief, just read the ranger section.

Stealth is no better than some other defense skills like shield, mirror images or some bunker, just few sec of defense, does thief has shield, mirrors ? no, like any other class, it’s just part of the special skill, every class has one in this game, by using this excuse to nerf thief is totally bias.

Rangers can silently burst you 1500 away, with no casting time, no warning, that’s kind of “stealth”, don’t you think so? That’s why in wow and LOL, they put marks on the target before a long range burst to warn the target, so they can react, not in this game.

I agree with the second post here, thief is unplayable in pvp now, low hp, low defense, low damage, stealth is not thief’s exclusive skill, thief is nerfed to the ground. The best damage burst from this class sometimes is probably equal to an auto attack or less comparing to other class is a joke.

What good is stealth when it doesn’t mitigate damage. And still get melted by AoE. Same thing with evasion it does not mitigate damage it requires skill to get out.

With the low crit damage and actually SKILL and POSITIONING to land a good back stab vs AoE melt DPS.

What is the point of playing thief? I love rogue/assassin classes in mmo’s but thief is lacking any real burst DPS relative to how squishy you are. If building more defensive you might as well go warrior and keep the dps while having the survivability. But who wants to build defensive with a rogue in the first place.

Spam-able abilities is no excuse either vs duration of conditions etc. Again most of the thief abilities are skill based vs AoE and conditions. From reading a lot of the earlier posts Thief looked like a lot of fun to play. I just don’t get that playing Thief now.

SinisterWraith.2910:

What good is stealth when it doesn’t mitigate damage. And still get melted by AoE. Same thing with evasion it does not mitigate damage it requires skill to get out.

With the low crit damage and actually SKILL and POSITIONING to land a good back stab vs AoE melt DPS.

What is the point of playing thief? I love rogue/assassin classes in mmo’s but thief is lacking any real burst DPS relative to how squishy you are. If building more defensive you might as well go warrior and keep the dps while having the survivability. But who wants to build defensive with a rogue in the first place.

Spam-able abilities is no excuse either vs duration of conditions etc. Again most of the thief abilities are skill based vs AoE and conditions. From reading a lot of the earlier posts Thief looked like a lot of fun to play. I just don’t get that playing Thief now.

All of the skills are skill based. When you position your Meteor Shower, or any other AoE, you can’t do it stupidly or you will waste it. And it has a 30 sec cool down.

I don’t see much “skill” out of a HS spamming session that is a homing attack not needing to reacquire target even when the target has teleported in your back.

I don’t see that much skill in positioning yourself behind someone that doesn’t even know you are there. Sure, once your presence is revealed it is harder, but that still leave one one hell of a good free shot and is still easier than a lot of other attack to land.

If you think skill and positioning is not important for other professions start playing them a bit. You might be surprised…

Play thief because you like it, not because it’s OP or UP. It’s extremely easy to play the common celestial builds but it’s also quite boring. Thief is fine, it’s the meta builds that are too strong currently. Thieves 1-shotting people is gone forever and we already burst mesmers below half health in a single opening combo as it is. They might reduce celestial’s sustain a bit but don’t expect our damage to go up.

Ultimately, Anet must have decided that due to our mobility, we aren’t meant to be able to 1v1 all classes. Don’t try to 1v1 on far when you can +1 a different fight, end it quickly, and move on to create uneven odds at the next fight. Playing thief isn’t about winning every fight anymore, but if you want your best chances then s/d when played correctly can give you a shot at winning each fight at least.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

SinisterWraith.2910:

What good is stealth when it doesn’t mitigate damage. And still get melted by AoE. Same thing with evasion it does not mitigate damage it requires skill to get out.

With the low crit damage and actually SKILL and POSITIONING to land a good back stab vs AoE melt DPS.

What is the point of playing thief? I love rogue/assassin classes in mmo’s but thief is lacking any real burst DPS relative to how squishy you are. If building more defensive you might as well go warrior and keep the dps while having the survivability. But who wants to build defensive with a rogue in the first place.

Spam-able abilities is no excuse either vs duration of conditions etc. Again most of the thief abilities are skill based vs AoE and conditions. From reading a lot of the earlier posts Thief looked like a lot of fun to play. I just don’t get that playing Thief now.

All of the skills are skill based. When you position your Meteor Shower, or any other AoE, you can’t do it stupidly or you will waste it. And it has a 30 sec cool down.

I don’t see much “skill” out of a HS spamming session that is a homing attack not needing to reacquire target even when the target has teleported in your back.

I don’t see that much skill in positioning yourself behind someone that doesn’t even know you are there. Sure, once your presence is revealed it is harder, but that still leave one one hell of a good free shot and is still easier than a lot of other attack to land.

If you think skill and positioning is not important for other professions start playing them a bit. You might be surprised…

You say that as if people stand still all game.

Hype.8032:

Play thief because you like it, not because it’s OP or UP. It’s extremely easy to play the common celestial builds but it’s also quite boring. Thief is fine, it’s the meta builds that are too strong currently. Thieves 1-shotting people is gone forever and we already burst mesmers below half health in a single opening combo as it is. They might reduce celestial’s sustain a bit but don’t expect our damage to go up.

Ultimately, Anet must have decided that due to our mobility, we aren’t meant to be able to 1v1 all classes. Don’t try to 1v1 on far when you can +1 a different fight, end it quickly, and move on to create uneven odds at the next fight. Playing thief isn’t about winning every fight anymore, but if you want your best chances then s/d when played correctly can give you a shot at winning each fight at least.

I agree, we play because its fun. But at the moment it just can’t compete in PvP as for WvW roaming I can’t comment as I have little experience in it.

I don’t expect to one shot people. I expect to be able to lay down some real DPS to at least scare to opposition. Right now they just face tank everything and kill you with conditions and AoE. When you play a squishy no DPS get 2 shot toon it gets old quick.

SinisterWraith.2910:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

SinisterWraith.2910:

What good is stealth when it doesn’t mitigate damage. And still get melted by AoE. Same thing with evasion it does not mitigate damage it requires skill to get out.

With the low crit damage and actually SKILL and POSITIONING to land a good back stab vs AoE melt DPS.

What is the point of playing thief? I love rogue/assassin classes in mmo’s but thief is lacking any real burst DPS relative to how squishy you are. If building more defensive you might as well go warrior and keep the dps while having the survivability. But who wants to build defensive with a rogue in the first place.

Spam-able abilities is no excuse either vs duration of conditions etc. Again most of the thief abilities are skill based vs AoE and conditions. From reading a lot of the earlier posts Thief looked like a lot of fun to play. I just don’t get that playing Thief now.

All of the skills are skill based. When you position your Meteor Shower, or any other AoE, you can’t do it stupidly or you will waste it. And it has a 30 sec cool down.

I don’t see much “skill” out of a HS spamming session that is a homing attack not needing to reacquire target even when the target has teleported in your back.

I don’t see that much skill in positioning yourself behind someone that doesn’t even know you are there. Sure, once your presence is revealed it is harder, but that still leave one one hell of a good free shot and is still easier than a lot of other attack to land.

If you think skill and positioning is not important for other professions start playing them a bit. You might be surprised…

You say that as if people stand still all game.

Not at all. I say that as if there was a huge difference between trying to go for my back when I know there is a thief and doing the same when I don’t.

thief is still in almost every pvp team and best zerker roamer.

and 1st or 2nd highest DPS in PvE

tell me more.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

SinisterWraith.2910:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

SinisterWraith.2910:

What good is stealth when it doesn’t mitigate damage. And still get melted by AoE. Same thing with evasion it does not mitigate damage it requires skill to get out.

With the low crit damage and actually SKILL and POSITIONING to land a good back stab vs AoE melt DPS.

What is the point of playing thief? I love rogue/assassin classes in mmo’s but thief is lacking any real burst DPS relative to how squishy you are. If building more defensive you might as well go warrior and keep the dps while having the survivability. But who wants to build defensive with a rogue in the first place.

Spam-able abilities is no excuse either vs duration of conditions etc. Again most of the thief abilities are skill based vs AoE and conditions. From reading a lot of the earlier posts Thief looked like a lot of fun to play. I just don’t get that playing Thief now.

All of the skills are skill based. When you position your Meteor Shower, or any other AoE, you can’t do it stupidly or you will waste it. And it has a 30 sec cool down.

I don’t see much “skill” out of a HS spamming session that is a homing attack not needing to reacquire target even when the target has teleported in your back.

I don’t see that much skill in positioning yourself behind someone that doesn’t even know you are there. Sure, once your presence is revealed it is harder, but that still leave one one hell of a good free shot and is still easier than a lot of other attack to land.

If you think skill and positioning is not important for other professions start playing them a bit. You might be surprised…

You say that as if people stand still all game.

Not at all. I say that as if there was a huge difference between trying to go for my back when I know there is a thief and doing the same when I don’t.

I don’t think you really played a thief in some pvp game, your statement right here are just funny without any support, we listed the numbers and situation to support our points, you just say, if you play other class you will see, why don’t you list some examples to show us. I know lots of people here talking about thief while their thief is level 20 in the game. Any class can catch you off guard, do you think rangers’ 1200 stun or 1500 burst you can foresee? show us your real numbers or situations, or just read please.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

SinisterWraith.2910:

What good is stealth when it doesn’t mitigate damage. And still get melted by AoE. Same thing with evasion it does not mitigate damage it requires skill to get out.

With the low crit damage and actually SKILL and POSITIONING to land a good back stab vs AoE melt DPS.

What is the point of playing thief? I love rogue/assassin classes in mmo’s but thief is lacking any real burst DPS relative to how squishy you are. If building more defensive you might as well go warrior and keep the dps while having the survivability. But who wants to build defensive with a rogue in the first place.

Spam-able abilities is no excuse either vs duration of conditions etc. Again most of the thief abilities are skill based vs AoE and conditions. From reading a lot of the earlier posts Thief looked like a lot of fun to play. I just don’t get that playing Thief now.

All of the skills are skill based. When you position your Meteor Shower, or any other AoE, you can’t do it stupidly or you will waste it. And it has a 30 sec cool down.

I don’t see much “skill” out of a HS spamming session that is a homing attack not needing to reacquire target even when the target has teleported in your back.

I don’t see that much skill in positioning yourself behind someone that doesn’t even know you are there. Sure, once your presence is revealed it is harder, but that still leave one one hell of a good free shot and is still easier than a lot of other attack to land.

If you think skill and positioning is not important for other professions start playing them a bit. You might be surprised…

lots of other classes have spam skills, probably better spam skills, almost any class can spam skills. Nec hit me around 3500 three time in 3 sec by using life blast? it’s like 3 critical backstab in a row in 3 sec which is impossible for a thief to achieve.
You probably get all these from testing on a dummy. First you need to get into stealth before position, while stealth is like 2-3 sec, during this time period you need to catch up the target and get behind them, while they are constantly running, mirroring, stunning, aeo, CC. So please don’t make yourself look like a l0of here lol

Again, every class has its unique skill, it’s just thief has stealth which is not exclusive, other class can stealth better at this moment.
Thief is a lot squishier and less HP than most of the class, we just want our damage output can be equal or a little better comparing to other class.

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

lots of other classes have spam skills, probably better spam skills, almost any class can spam skills. Nec hit me around 3500 three time in 3 sec by using life blast? it’s like 3 critical backstab in a row in 3 sec which is impossible for a thief to achieve.
You probably get all these from testing on a dummy. First you need to get into stealth before position, while stealth is like 2-3 sec, during this time period you need to catch up the target and get behind them, while they are constantly running, mirroring, stunning, aeo, CC. So please don’t make yourself look like a l0of here lol

Again, every class has its unique skill, it’s just thief has stealth which is not exclusive, other class can stealth better at this moment.
Thief is a lot squishier and less HP than most of the class, we just want our damage output can be equal or a little better comparing to other class.

I have all professions at 80. I main an elementalist but I did play all the others quite a bit. I’m not a good thief but I’m not ignorant about the class strength and how it feels to play a staff ele vs thief (an almost impossible fight to win). How much damage do you think your backstab routine does on my ele before I even have a chance to react? It is ridiculous and I’m no dummy. Had I devoted as much time to my thief as I did my ele I’d be hated by all.

As for spamming, there exist no profession with a greater spamming power than thief simply for the mechanical reason called initiative. Sure, you will all tell me “no good thief will spam” bla-bla, but you still can’t really look at other professions as if they had greater spam power than you. Nobody can match you at that game. Spamming is rarely a great strategy for a lot of builds as far as I know anyway so quit using that excuse as if only thief requires skill. To be honest, I find it infinitely easier to duel with my thief as bad as I am than it is with my staff ele as good as I am. If you don’t believe me try it, I’ll pick my thief and I’ll enjoy free stomping you. No duel is ez for a staff ele. None.

As for stealth, sure other prof has it but don’t you even dare try to compare Thief with them. None of them can perma stealth and disappear on demand. None of them can go invisible for anywhere as long as a thief either. I don’t mind engi and ranger stealth capability because the frequency and duration is very reasonable. Mesmers are more annoying not because their stealth is better but because couple with clones and all the mess in the field stealth becomes a pain. All other stealth professions can’t get away as easily if a fight turn bad. I have yet to encounter a thief who won’t catch-up to my staff ele eventually unless I can’t reach a tower.

When people complain about thief most thief answer is “play one yourself”. I could easily tell you the same and maybe you will understand 2 things. 1) Other professions are not as easy as you think, 2) The “play one” argument is pretty lame. You don’t want to play something else, you want to play what you like without having to bend over a prof every time.

Anyway, I was expecting ppl to QQ about thief not the opposite when I came to this sub-forum. You haven’t been on the receiving end of a thief enough in your life to speak like you do here is what I get.

thief loses to much damage for spamming if u r in crits or trickery.
damage is tied to the number of initiative u have. and is not really ever a good idea to spam

how ever those “spam-a-neers” can be pretty tough to get close to with all the stuff they throw around

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

When people complain about thief most thief answer is “play one yourself”. I could easily tell you the same and maybe you will understand 2 things. 1) Other professions are not as easy as you think, 2) The “play one” argument is pretty lame. You don’t want to play something else, you want to play what you like without having to bend over a prof every time.

Anyway, I was expecting ppl to QQ about thief not the opposite when I came to this sub-forum. You haven’t been on the receiving end of a thief enough in your life to speak like you do here is what I get.

Playing other classes is the best you can do to learn how to fight them. Better investment of your time that looking at thief forums to QQ. Your problem is that you find thieves annoying and you don’t want to see anything else.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

tom.7468:

Yea sure who care about balance as long as theif can never kill a player again.

Well, unless you only hit on bunker builds I assure you that thief has no problem killing others. None at all.

Sure, I don’t play the flavor of the month meta celestial d/d but let’s not push the ridiculous more than it already is. Heck, I find the d/d celestial ele less dangerous to my staff ele than pretty much any thief. Being killed by a d/d ele also isn’t as annoying… by FAR.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Playing other classes is the best you can do to learn how to fight them. Better investment of your time that looking at thief forums to QQ. Your problem is that you find thieves annoying and you don’t want to see anything else.

The irony is I didn’t came here to QQ and I do play all 8 classes at lvl 80 like I said before. It was curiosity that bring me here and a very ridiculous post about other professions needing no skills and only spamming AoE that made me reply.

My real argument that many here have avoided like the pest apparently was: try what I play and I’ll pick my thief vs you and we will see how easy other have it compared to you. The QQ isn’t coming from me, it comes from the OP.

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

Don’t pick on thief’s stealth …

I don’t think you got that I was mocking most people’s arguments, and how they eventually spiral down to “OP STEALTHZORS” at which point, just give up arguing with them because you won’t get through to them about anything.

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

I had backstab at 2k on CRITICAL !! behind target a lot times, the best backstab is around 6k, when a nec can hit 3500 three time in a row in 3 sec, a warrior can hit 9k in one action, not mention ele and engi, the game is full of AOE damage and CC.

It makes perfect sense. It’s like friendship with ex-friends. Once you get backstabbed numerous times over you start to feel numb. Where a 12k backstab is now nothing but a 2k backstab. However, it’s not because they deal less damage, instead damage are simply shrugged off.

In terms of Thief, the damage is there, the opposition are simply too tanky. You’re taking those hits because you’re the back stabbing ex-friend getting punched in the face.

Excuse my analogy. No offense intended.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

lots of other classes have spam skills, probably better spam skills, almost any class can spam skills. Nec hit me around 3500 three time in 3 sec by using life blast? it’s like 3 critical backstab in a row in 3 sec which is impossible for a thief to achieve.
You probably get all these from testing on a dummy. First you need to get into stealth before position, while stealth is like 2-3 sec, during this time period you need to catch up the target and get behind them, while they are constantly running, mirroring, stunning, aeo, CC. So please don’t make yourself look like a l0of here lol

Again, every class has its unique skill, it’s just thief has stealth which is not exclusive, other class can stealth better at this moment.
Thief is a lot squishier and less HP than most of the class, we just want our damage output can be equal or a little better comparing to other class.

I have all professions at 80. I main an elementalist but I did play all the others quite a bit. I’m not a good thief but I’m not ignorant about the class strength and how it feels to play a staff ele vs thief (an almost impossible fight to win). How much damage do you think your backstab routine does on my ele before I even have a chance to react? It is ridiculous and I’m no dummy. Had I devoted as much time to my thief as I did my ele I’d be hated by all.

As for spamming, there exist no profession with a greater spamming power than thief simply for the mechanical reason called initiative. Sure, you will all tell me “no good thief will spam” bla-bla, but you still can’t really look at other professions as if they had greater spam power than you. Nobody can match you at that game. Spamming is rarely a great strategy for a lot of builds as far as I know anyway so quit using that excuse as if only thief requires skill. To be honest, I find it infinitely easier to duel with my thief as bad as I am than it is with my staff ele as good as I am. If you don’t believe me try it, I’ll pick my thief and I’ll enjoy free stomping you. No duel is ez for a staff ele. None.

As for stealth, sure other prof has it but don’t you even dare try to compare Thief with them. None of them can perma stealth and disappear on demand. None of them can go invisible for anywhere as long as a thief either. I don’t mind engi and ranger stealth capability because the frequency and duration is very reasonable. Mesmers are more annoying not because their stealth is better but because couple with clones and all the mess in the field stealth becomes a pain. All other stealth professions can’t get away as easily if a fight turn bad. I have yet to encounter a thief who won’t catch-up to my staff ele eventually unless I can’t reach a tower.

When people complain about thief most thief answer is “play one yourself”. I could easily tell you the same and maybe you will understand 2 things. 1) Other professions are not as easy as you think, 2) The “play one” argument is pretty lame. You don’t want to play something else, you want to play what you like without having to bend over a prof every time.

Anyway, I was expecting ppl to QQ about thief not the opposite when I came to this sub-forum. You haven’t been on the receiving end of a thief enough in your life to speak like you do here is what I get.

Just read some replies below your statement, and I don’t need to say more, not just me who think your statement is bias, you claim thief players don’t need skills, and it’s an easy class. And, you said it yourself, you are not a good thief, that’s probably why you have such ignorant ideas about thief….btw, since thief is such an “easy” class, and you can not even play it well????

Don’t waste your time here, go read some other post, like rangers section, I am sure you can find out how long rangers can stealth and if it’s longer than thief in some case, and slap your face for me a few times, then come back and apologize.

Obviously there is something wrong in your mind, come to thief section and blast thief players don’t need skills, just spamming and stealth. Listed all these BS here. You know BS doesn’t stand for BackStab here, don’t you?

Picking on thief’s stealth, thief doesn’t have other unique skills which other class has, such as shield, mirror image etc. stop using stealth as an excuse to attack this class.

I am really wasting my time to argue with you here.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I have all professions at 80. I main an elementalist but I did play all the others quite a bit. I’m not a good thief but I’m not ignorant about the class strength and how it feels to play a staff ele vs thief (an almost impossible fight to win). How much damage do you think your backstab routine does on my ele before I even have a chance to react? It is ridiculous and I’m no dummy. Had I devoted as much time to my thief as I did my ele I’d be hated by all.

I just would like to point out that you’re making an Apples to Oranges comparison between these 2 specs. An S/D, S/F, D/D, or D/F build actually puts out comparable burst and usually better sustain than the thief. Staff ele is (typically) a group fight oriented weapon which is great for XvX but not 1v1. Talking about how hard it is to kill a thief using staff is not a very fair comparison to make.

As for the amount of damage output backstab does to your ele, anywhere from 3.5 to 7.5k (crit) depending on protection and both players’ builds (in PvP).

Regardless special skills, which every class has one…. stealth is the only skill to defend as a thief, blind doesn’t work on aeo and cc, no shielding skill or spell, no heavy armor etc.

Due to the low defense skills thief has, low hp, low toughness etc, the burst damage should equal or a little better to other classes’ burst, to make up all these disadvantages thief has. Especially for backstab, it requires within 2-3 second of stealth, position right, and only 130 melee range, while target constantly running, jumping, turning, aeo spamming, cc etc.

What other skills in this game require blink of time, position and 130 melee range to trigger? this kind of skill need to be rewarded with higher damage.

Still, this is a rule, 2 thieves in a team cause a lose for sure, 99%, this means something. see it yourself. Truth is louder than all the bias statement here. Why, thieves spend more time laying on the ground dead, most of them rely on melee but squishy. and low burst damage, which make them only useful for the mobility.

Tis why i gave up running burst damage thief and just run S/D for sustain and more consistent damage.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

SinisterWraith.2910:

From what I have been reading on these forums. The Thief has literally been nerf’d into the ground and unplayable in PvP.

You are right, the game is full of easy mode AoE and CC, Condi builds etc that deal way more damage than a skill shot like back stab. I think if you are wanting a melee play Warrior, if you want a stealth toon play Ranger. Thief is dead.

Wait, what? Ez mode? I wonder who has ez mode. If you want to find out who has it “easy” play my zerker staff ele full of AoE and CC and I’ll play your thief build. We will see who has it “easy” when I can reset all the fights I want, flee without possibly being caught and start any fight with a 50% head start on life points because I destroyed that much of your life pool before you even knew I was there…

That post is just ridiculous. I can understand some frustration after some nerfs but this is just shameful.

Tbh,if the thief has reset the fight,you won.Gw2 pvp is not about 1v1,and ppl always forget this.50% headstart is really your fault,either you are squishy as the thief,or cant tell when thief is nearby.l2p on this.staff eles on point are IMPOSSIBLE to kill by thieves. you just sit on point spam aoe and the thief wont even dare to step in and backstab you.full zerk staff ele can do 3-5k dmg on meteor shower every sec to a thief.

Sandrox.9524:

Tbh,if the thief has reset the fight,you won.Gw2 pvp is not about 1v1,and ppl always forget this.50% headstart is really your fault,either you are squishy as the thief,or cant tell when thief is nearby.l2p on this.staff eles on point are IMPOSSIBLE to kill by thieves. you just sit on point spam aoe and the thief wont even dare to step in and backstab you.full zerk staff ele can do 3-5k dmg on meteor shower every sec to a thief.

Well, your reply only make sense if we only look at pvp otherwise I disagree. It only mean the fight continue and that the thief still has it’s chance. He made a mistake and he has the luxury to correct himself and try again until he gets it. As a staff ele I can’t. If I make a mistake I have to live with it til I hit the ground or he does because he made an even bigger mistake in the following attempts.

As for my build being my fault I totally agree and I assume it perfectly. I have no problem being a free lunch to thief. My problem is having someone telling me I have it easy because I have AoE. Like I said before, let’s switch places and we shall find out how easy I have it.

BTW, I mostly play WvW and I do agree there is a difference with S and tpvp but that changes nothing to what I said. Sure you can MS a point in pvp, and I do, but the 30 sec cool down makes it far from spammable and the thief, unless an idiot or locked in place, will not get killed by that. It’s the main problem with a staff ele. You have to use your cc to make your AoE do anything worthwhile and be a master of anticipation. Sure, in pvp the cap is making our job way easier, but in WvW it is a completely different matter.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Sandrox.9524:

Tbh,if the thief has reset the fight,you won.Gw2 pvp is not about 1v1,and ppl always forget this.50% headstart is really your fault,either you are squishy as the thief,or cant tell when thief is nearby.l2p on this.staff eles on point are IMPOSSIBLE to kill by thieves. you just sit on point spam aoe and the thief wont even dare to step in and backstab you.full zerk staff ele can do 3-5k dmg on meteor shower every sec to a thief.

Well, your reply only make sense if we only look at pvp otherwise I disagree. It only mean the fight continue and that the thief still has it’s chance. He made a mistake and he has the luxury to correct himself and try again until he gets it. As a staff ele I can’t. If I make a mistake I have to live with it til I hit the ground or he does because he made an even bigger mistake in the following attempts.

As for my build being my fault I totally agree and I assume it perfectly. I have no problem being a free lunch to thief. My problem is having someone telling me I have it easy because I have AoE. Like I said before, let’s switch places and we shall find out how easy I have it.

BTW, I mostly play WvW and I do agree there is a difference with S and tpvp but that changes nothing to what I said. Sure you can MS a point in pvp, and I do, but the 30 sec cool down makes it far from spammable and the thief, unless an idiot or locked in place, will not get killed by that. It’s the main problem with a staff ele. You have to use your cc to make your AoE do anything worthwhile and be a master of anticipation. Sure, in pvp the cap is making our job way easier, but in WvW it is a completely different matter.

You should watch Josre play staff Ele. It’s a pain to fight him, because he kites so well and uses his CC so well.

He’s easily the best staff Ele in the game right now, IMO.

Ask him questions, because his staff Ele is not a free kill to thieves.

Shockwave.1230:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Sandrox.9524:

Tbh,if the thief has reset the fight,you won.Gw2 pvp is not about 1v1,and ppl always forget this.50% headstart is really your fault,either you are squishy as the thief,or cant tell when thief is nearby.l2p on this.staff eles on point are IMPOSSIBLE to kill by thieves. you just sit on point spam aoe and the thief wont even dare to step in and backstab you.full zerk staff ele can do 3-5k dmg on meteor shower every sec to a thief.

Well, your reply only make sense if we only look at pvp otherwise I disagree. It only mean the fight continue and that the thief still has it’s chance. He made a mistake and he has the luxury to correct himself and try again until he gets it. As a staff ele I can’t. If I make a mistake I have to live with it til I hit the ground or he does because he made an even bigger mistake in the following attempts.

As for my build being my fault I totally agree and I assume it perfectly. I have no problem being a free lunch to thief. My problem is having someone telling me I have it easy because I have AoE. Like I said before, let’s switch places and we shall find out how easy I have it.

BTW, I mostly play WvW and I do agree there is a difference with S and tpvp but that changes nothing to what I said. Sure you can MS a point in pvp, and I do, but the 30 sec cool down makes it far from spammable and the thief, unless an idiot or locked in place, will not get killed by that. It’s the main problem with a staff ele. You have to use your cc to make your AoE do anything worthwhile and be a master of anticipation. Sure, in pvp the cap is making our job way easier, but in WvW it is a completely different matter.

You should watch Josre play staff Ele. It’s a pain to fight him, because he kites so well and uses his CC so well.

He’s easily the best staff Ele in the game right now, IMO.

Ask him questions, because his staff Ele is not a free kill to thieves.

Does he play Celestial or Zerker? I don’t play Zerker because I can’t play Celestial. I play Zerker because I like the challenge to do as well as possible with it. I also tend to ignore meta. If everyone play one way it becomes stinking material to me. I’m like that. When I initially adopted the 00266 staff spec it wasn’t me going on forums and meta websites and stealing others ideas. It was after naturally testing builds until I struck a balance I was comfortable to play and where synergy was maximal.

I can kite many thieves for a long time when I use my cc well. The problem isn’t there. The problem is some people apparently think other professions necessarily have it easier than a thief because of AoE. Don’t tell me you agree with that too? I’m absolutely certain the guy you talk about would loose to a thief that has as much experience in his thief as he has with his ele. It’s not a question of l2p. It’s a natural rock-paper-scissor case like it exist for pretty much everyone.

To show you how bad the backstab is now, see my screenprint. 760 for a backstab, this must be a joke…

The same fight in the same map

This is the critical damage of backstab, after set up postion, get in melee range and stealth, this is the damage you got, some range auto attack is better than this ! you can also see another backstab from another thief did on me, similar damage range. I can keep posting this kind of damage all day long, but the truth is, the best damage burst of a thief is only 2k+ on critial, while nec hits 3500+ three times in a row, warrior can burst 9k+ from final thrust… not mention engineer and ele…

Thief is dead in pvp, here is the truth in front of your eyes.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Shockwave.1230:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Sandrox.9524:

Tbh,if the thief has reset the fight,you won.Gw2 pvp is not about 1v1,and ppl always forget this.50% headstart is really your fault,either you are squishy as the thief,or cant tell when thief is nearby.l2p on this.staff eles on point are IMPOSSIBLE to kill by thieves. you just sit on point spam aoe and the thief wont even dare to step in and backstab you.full zerk staff ele can do 3-5k dmg on meteor shower every sec to a thief.

Well, your reply only make sense if we only look at pvp otherwise I disagree. It only mean the fight continue and that the thief still has it’s chance. He made a mistake and he has the luxury to correct himself and try again until he gets it. As a staff ele I can’t. If I make a mistake I have to live with it til I hit the ground or he does because he made an even bigger mistake in the following attempts.

As for my build being my fault I totally agree and I assume it perfectly. I have no problem being a free lunch to thief. My problem is having someone telling me I have it easy because I have AoE. Like I said before, let’s switch places and we shall find out how easy I have it.

BTW, I mostly play WvW and I do agree there is a difference with S and tpvp but that changes nothing to what I said. Sure you can MS a point in pvp, and I do, but the 30 sec cool down makes it far from spammable and the thief, unless an idiot or locked in place, will not get killed by that. It’s the main problem with a staff ele. You have to use your cc to make your AoE do anything worthwhile and be a master of anticipation. Sure, in pvp the cap is making our job way easier, but in WvW it is a completely different matter.

You should watch Josre play staff Ele. It’s a pain to fight him, because he kites so well and uses his CC so well.

He’s easily the best staff Ele in the game right now, IMO.

Ask him questions, because his staff Ele is not a free kill to thieves.

Does he play Celestial or Zerker? I don’t play Zerker because I can’t play Celestial. I play Zerker because I like the challenge to do as well as possible with it. I also tend to ignore meta. If everyone play one way it becomes stinking material to me. I’m like that. When I initially adopted the 00266 staff spec it wasn’t me going on forums and meta websites and stealing others ideas. It was after naturally testing builds until I struck a balance I was comfortable to play and where synergy was maximal.

I can kite many thieves for a long time when I use my cc well. The problem isn’t there. The problem is some people apparently think other professions necessarily have it easier than a thief because of AoE. Don’t tell me you agree with that too? I’m absolutely certain the guy you talk about would loose to a thief that has as much experience in his thief as he has with his ele. It’s not a question of l2p. It’s a natural rock-paper-scissor case like it exist for pretty much everyone.

Rock paper scissors exists between various classes. Dps guards for example have it easy v thief. Same for Cele engi, same for Cele Ele, same for condi engi, same for condi necro, etc. The game isn’t balance around these 1v1 at chips exclusively though.

Since you’re zerker Ele, I’d imagine you can be just as be bursted down by a Mesmer if not more easily. I’d imagine you can easily be bursted by a power Ranger that catches you out of earth as well. It doesn’t really make sense for you to be arguing the points you’re arguing on the basis you are using.

Shockwave.1230:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Shockwave.1230:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Sandrox.9524:

Tbh,if the thief has reset the fight,you won.Gw2 pvp is not about 1v1,and ppl always forget this.50% headstart is really your fault,either you are squishy as the thief,or cant tell when thief is nearby.l2p on this.staff eles on point are IMPOSSIBLE to kill by thieves. you just sit on point spam aoe and the thief wont even dare to step in and backstab you.full zerk staff ele can do 3-5k dmg on meteor shower every sec to a thief.

Well, your reply only make sense if we only look at pvp otherwise I disagree. It only mean the fight continue and that the thief still has it’s chance. He made a mistake and he has the luxury to correct himself and try again until he gets it. As a staff ele I can’t. If I make a mistake I have to live with it til I hit the ground or he does because he made an even bigger mistake in the following attempts.

As for my build being my fault I totally agree and I assume it perfectly. I have no problem being a free lunch to thief. My problem is having someone telling me I have it easy because I have AoE. Like I said before, let’s switch places and we shall find out how easy I have it.

BTW, I mostly play WvW and I do agree there is a difference with S and tpvp but that changes nothing to what I said. Sure you can MS a point in pvp, and I do, but the 30 sec cool down makes it far from spammable and the thief, unless an idiot or locked in place, will not get killed by that. It’s the main problem with a staff ele. You have to use your cc to make your AoE do anything worthwhile and be a master of anticipation. Sure, in pvp the cap is making our job way easier, but in WvW it is a completely different matter.

You should watch Josre play staff Ele. It’s a pain to fight him, because he kites so well and uses his CC so well.

He’s easily the best staff Ele in the game right now, IMO.

Ask him questions, because his staff Ele is not a free kill to thieves.

Does he play Celestial or Zerker? I don’t play Zerker because I can’t play Celestial. I play Zerker because I like the challenge to do as well as possible with it. I also tend to ignore meta. If everyone play one way it becomes stinking material to me. I’m like that. When I initially adopted the 00266 staff spec it wasn’t me going on forums and meta websites and stealing others ideas. It was after naturally testing builds until I struck a balance I was comfortable to play and where synergy was maximal.

I can kite many thieves for a long time when I use my cc well. The problem isn’t there. The problem is some people apparently think other professions necessarily have it easier than a thief because of AoE. Don’t tell me you agree with that too? I’m absolutely certain the guy you talk about would loose to a thief that has as much experience in his thief as he has with his ele. It’s not a question of l2p. It’s a natural rock-paper-scissor case like it exist for pretty much everyone.

Rock paper scissors exists between various classes. Dps guards for example have it easy v thief. Same for Cele engi, same for Cele Ele, same for condi engi, same for condi necro, etc. The game isn’t balance around these 1v1 at chips exclusively though.

Since you’re zerker Ele, I’d imagine you can be just as be bursted down by a Mesmer if not more easily. I’d imagine you can easily be bursted by a power Ranger that catches you out of earth as well. It doesn’t really make sense for you to be arguing the points you’re arguing on the basis you are using.

I think you are selective in what you read. What doesn’t make sense when I say others do not have it easier than thief? I never argued I couldn’t be bursted just as easily by a Mesmer or a power ranger. In fact they can inflict as much damage in a burst. The difference is how surprising the initial strike will be but that is beside the point. The sole reason I replied here to begin with had to do with the claim other professions who have AoE have it easy. That claim is ridiculous and I’m perfectly willing to play my thief if someone want to play a staff ele to see who has it easier… I don’t know why you guys are continuously avoiding what I actually say instead of just admitting that claim was just BS and be done with it.

So what WOULD be an ideal backstab?

In a team fight I think staff Ele has it easier, but in 1v1s D/P thief would definitely have it easier.

It’s all situational as to what’s better when though

TheLastNobody.8319:

So what WOULD be an ideal backstab?

Comparing HP, toughness to other classes and condition required to trigger this skill, I think the backstab normal should be around 3-5k, critical should double the damage.

Again, some tanky class and high HP class already have this kind of burst in pvp (wvw might be even more)…. warrior’s final thrust can burst to 9k+, esv can easily hit 6k most of the time (see picture here), nec can spam life blast 3500 each x3 in three sec. so a 8-9k or even more backstab critical damage for a thief should be normal, it at least equals to other classes, currently, the backstab is around 600-900 for normal, and 2k-5k for critial, most time just around 2-3k. Backstab is the only burst skill a dagger thief has and now it’s like equal to auto attack…

Is there any other skills in this game requires 2-3 second time limit, position behind target and in 130 melee range?? IS THERE????

YOU ARE RIGHT, NONE!!! that’s why backstab needs to be rewarded as higher damage burst, especially behind the target.

The right logic should be the squishier class has a little bit higher burst damage, and tanky class or more hp class has a little bit lower burst, currently, it’s just the opposite… so how can squishier class survive the pvp under these burst tanks, as well as the full screen aeo spam, not even mention to win a fight. that’s why this rule is so true, 2 thieves in a team, that’s a losing team 99% of the time.

another evis critical follow by a critial backstab you see it yourself

this is a backstab critial