Guild Wars 2

I admit to be an average-ish casual player – all I do in this game is spvp.

I want to like shadow step, but I have a very hard time using it as a stun breaker due to the need to target it somewhere on the screen. Is this just a L2P/practice issue or is there some trick to it? Am I the only one who often takes roll for initiative just because if I find myself stuck in a 100B I can just hit that key and instantly be out of harms way?

Leadfoot.9071:

Am I the only one who often takes roll for initiative just because if I find myself stuck in a 100B I can just hit that key and instantly be out of harms way?

RFI is a great skill, and much easier to negotiate. I think it’s just as good, and having plenty of condition clears as I have plus a shadow return hardwired to my sword, even better.

Coupled with Withdrawl for heal, it’s amazing how many sticky situations you’ll find your way out of and leave your opponent scratching their heads in confusion how you just traveled so far in the span of a couple seconds.

No need to be ashamed of using RFI.

Maybe I find myself wanting to use shadow step because I want to improve my skill and this utility clearly requires more skill than RFI… I guess I’m just wondering whether people (like good players) are actually able to use shadow step as a quick stun break for things like bullrush/100B types of situations as effectively as a skill like RFI or if it’s more for gap closing/escaping?

I use shadowstep. At first it was a bit hard to manage the groundtarget, also because i disabled the target, thinking it was faster with just 1 button instead of button+click but i messed up with range.
now it is a must have.. and also shadow return is great.
i think that if you place the mouse cursor on the minimap the groundtarget skill will go forward from your toon.

edit: for a quick escape i use it just clicking next to my character, as the cursor usually is really close and so “in range”

I bound my shadowstep to my middle mouse button and fast cast ground targeting is a must imo, once i got used to stun breaking with that button I use it on all my characters for stun break as I will reflexively hit it when CC’d and taking dmg.
Edit; if you don’t already you need to be keeping track of where your mouse is at all times even when using it to change camera angle etc.

Leadfoot.9071:

I guess I’m just wondering whether people (like good players) are actually able to use shadow step as a quick stun break for things like bullrush/100B types of situations as effectively as a skill like RFI or if it’s more for gap closing/escaping?

If you just want to use it to get out of a situation and right back into the fight, just disable ground targeting and don’t get greedy with the distance you wish to achieve as you only need to get out of their small AoE cleave. It has 1200 range limit, so it’s pretty hard to overshoot, just requires more reaction time. Swing around and wait for the warrior to stop having a seizure and hit the return to jump back in.

I do have to say, however, that no matter how “good” the player, pressing the button for RFI will be faster than activating Shadowstep 100% of the time, it’s just the nature of the skill.

i’m at work and tired, forgive my poor usage of the forums.

oops, 2x post. o.0

RFI has a clunky animation, is only 1 stun break and doesn’t clear conditions. If something is behind you or enemy players are behind you…its over unless you’re mad quick with about face keybind. If OP’s trouble is always seeing the red out of range while he’s getting smoked i suggest porting off to the side because assuming equal mouse distance from your character there are less in game distance units to the sides than above(moving forward).

Like Jinkuro says, using Rfi you will often end up rolling on yourself because of immobilize, still eating a 50b in the process, for example.

Using Shadowstep you wont be fast enough to avoid all the damage but you will evade more of it and even better, you won’t stand there rolling like a disabled hedgehog waitingto eat the end of the burst, and with a bit of exercise you will also get great benefits from its repositionning abilities. Plus For 10 seconds you can return and thats another stun breaker ready for you.

Oh I forgot about roots, think that’s the nail in the coffin for overworld pvp usage imo. Incidentally I love this skill underwater, especially with the about face keybind.

Leadfoot.9071:

I admit to be an average-ish casual player – all I do in this game is spvp.

I want to like shadow step, but I have a very hard time using it as a stun breaker due to the need to target it somewhere on the screen. Is this just a L2P/practice issue or is there some trick to it? Am I the only one who often takes roll for initiative just because if I find myself stuck in a 100B I can just hit that key and instantly be out of harms way?

Shadowstep: Learn it, live it, love it.

It is a practice/muscle memory issue. You could combat the ground targeting 1 of 2 ways:

1. Double tap your Shadowstep keybind. Once will activate it, the next will teleport you. This is good if you’re not sure on the range of Shadowstep or other ground targetted abilities until you get more familiar with the range. Be careful however, if you tap it too quickly and hit it a third time without realizing it, you would activate Shadow Return.

2. Turn on fast cast ground targeting. This cuts out the milisecond between double tapping your keybind, and probably what most prefer. However if you’re not sure on the range, leave this off for a little while longer.

Others have mentioned Withdraw and RFI, while great, does not hold the versatility of situations as Shadowstep. With practice and the more you play, Shadowstepping out of a Bulls Charge/Basilisk Venom/Devourer Venom/etc will become second nature.

I know for me there have been a few times where I see another Thief and already anticipate the Basilisk > CnD > Steal > Backstab combo. This ends up with me Shadowstepping to avoid the backstab, turning around and doing the same to them.

That, and Shadowstep comes as an answer for just about everything to me. Stunned? Shadowstep. Need to catch up with someone? Shadowstep infront of them, turn around hit CnD. Need to get away? Shadowstep. Need to get up on that ledge to get into the tower faster? Shadowstep. …Well, you get the idea.

Hang in there and let muscle memory do the rest.

Shadowstep is kinda limited for what it comes with. Effects on it do not sync well and for that it has too long of a recharge.
Inf signet is in most cases faster, quicker recharge and a nice passive boost.

Ichishi.9613:

Shadowstep is kinda limited for what it comes with. Effects on it do not sync well and for that it has too long of a recharge.
Inf signet is in most cases faster, quicker recharge and a nice passive boost.

But doesnt remove conditions and needs a target.

I like inf signet i used it a lot, but then i got used to shadowstep and never went back since.

Shadowstep is like the Mesmer’s Blink with more range plus an abort button.

It’s definitely worth learning to use for WvW or sPvP, as it can allow you to warp past enemies and take down key locations like trebuchets and capture points.

The condition-curing effect is a very nice bonus as well. (Still fuzzy on the details though. Do both ShStep and ShReturn cure 3 for a total of 6? Or was it just someone messing up on the tool tips?)

Leadfoot, once you get used to directing Shadowstep on reflex, it will be infinitely superior to either RFI, or Inf-Signet.
(Just make sure you have ground-targeting on auto-cast, so you don’t have to click twice)

- For chasing, it has more range and the option to back out if you get in too deep.
- For running, it cures conditions to remove the risk of slows or dots.
- For kiting, Return lets you have your enemy running in circles.

And in PvE, it’s just nice being able to warp around like a ghost/demon.

Yeah, Shadowstep is a really great utility skill once you commit it to muscle memory. I used it plenty of times against warriors’ bull rush + thousand blades skill, and even against S/P thieves with haste (or anything that roots you lol). It just takes a lot of practice. If you got one of those mouses with extra buttons, it works very well too.

Don’t know if you’re playing D/D or not, but if you use sword mainhand, inf strike has a stun break on return and without a target you end up ground casting it. If you know there is a 100b warrior running around, you can keep dropping it while running around and return to it if you get hit.

Leadfoot.9071:

I admit to be an average-ish casual player – all I do in this game is spvp.

I want to like shadow step, but I have a very hard time using it as a stun breaker due to the need to target it somewhere on the screen. Is this just a L2P/practice issue or is there some trick to it? Am I the only one who often takes roll for initiative just because if I find myself stuck in a 100B I can just hit that key and instantly be out of harms way?

If ure just strictly using it to counter 100B, RFI is better as it is almost insta and travels you 1200 units away, whilst removing ALL CC from you (something that shadowstep cannot guarantee, as it needs the return to remove condtions, and Immo/criple/chills, can be covered by 3 other conditions-very unlikely); however in almost any other situation shadowstep will fare better, all you need its bind it to midle mouse button and get used to using it, at first will be worrisome, but then ull eventually get the hang of it. Shadowstep has a lot of advantadges, the most prominent being the condition removal ability and the possibility of removing 2 stuns within its 10 secs frame. RFI is insta cast and removes immo as well, with just 1 touch, it gives you also 6 initiative, but it stops here; shadowstep removes 3 conditions regardless, can double stunbreak, its better as a movement skill, can be used to shortcut like infiltrator arrow, can be used to fake and induce enemies into making mistakes, has better cooldown and its probably the best safe stomper for thieves.

Eduardo.4675:

If ure just strictly using it to counter 100B, RFI is better as it is almost insta and travels you 1200 units away, whilst removing ALL CC from you

It still doesn’t remove immobilize so in my opinion it’s not the best tool to avoid a warrior burst or a bursty thief with devourer venom, or shattering mesmer (basically anything that roots) since you will stay where you are while rolling.
That said the extra initiative can come in handy to throw an extra black powder, death blossom or infiltrator strike so i guess it has its upsides.

Now under water it’s true it’s quite awesome.

muscarine.5136:

Eduardo.4675:

If ure just strictly using it to counter 100B, RFI is better as it is almost insta and travels you 1200 units away, whilst removing ALL CC from you

It still doesn’t remove immobilize so in my opinion it’s not the best tool to avoid a warrior burst or a bursty thief with devourer venom, or shattering mesmer (basically anything that roots) since you will stay where you are while rolling.
That said the extra initiative can come in handy to throw an extra black powder, death blossom or infiltrator strike so i guess it has its upsides.

Now under water it’s true it’s quite awesome.

It removes immobilize,chill, criple and stuns… what are you talking about???unless there was a ninja patch and the tooltip wasnt changed to reflect,it still removes immo.Read the skill tooltip.Sometimes it bugs, (very rare) and ull roll where you are, but both withdraw and RFI remove immo.

I wish the ground cursor kind of “stopped” when you’re about to go out of range, because in the heat of battle, it’s already annoying to go out of range with the skill but then to come back and get the maximum range to escape.

Gah sorry if I didn’t explain it properly, I’m real tired lol :\

Eduardo.4675:

muscarine.5136:

Eduardo.4675:

If ure just strictly using it to counter 100B, RFI is better as it is almost insta and travels you 1200 units away, whilst removing ALL CC from you

It still doesn’t remove immobilize so in my opinion it’s not the best tool to avoid a warrior burst or a bursty thief with devourer venom, or shattering mesmer (basically anything that roots) since you will stay where you are while rolling.
That said the extra initiative can come in handy to throw an extra black powder, death blossom or infiltrator strike so i guess it has its upsides.

Now under water it’s true it’s quite awesome.

It removes immobilize,chill, criple and stuns… what are you talking about???unless there was a ninja patch and the tooltip wasnt changed to reflect,it still removes immo.Read the skill tooltip.Sometimes it bugs, (very rare) and ull roll where you are, but both withdraw and RFI remove immo.

Well there is this issue where you use your roll for initiative, and the same issue with disabling shot ; if you have been immobilized you won’t move away and the animation will actually play while you just stay right where you are.

Happens pretty often.

So yea i shouldn’t say doesn’t remove immobilize but immobilize prevents you from rolling away.

Shadowstep is gold and just takes practice… however you wont get the super instant escape of withdraw/RFI. On the other hand you can use it for mobility, offence and defence (twice!). I would rate shadowstep 9/10 for my shortbow build, withdraw/RFI 7/10.

“If you got one of those mouses with extra buttons, it works very well too.”

This does make it very easy. If you are loving the game and think you are now an MMO PvP and RvR / WvW addict… get the mouse (naga or something similar).

Healing sancturay and SB #5 get a whole lot easier for the same reason.

Just hit the hotkey twice, you don’t have to click.

Thanks a lot for the tips guys.

I thought about using the fast ground targeting option but was worried that it would be too annoying to not have the ground target coloring to tell me whether I am in range or not for the skill… more of an issue for infiltrators arrow than shadow step but still. However, I guess using that option may kill 2 birds with one stone = 1) faster use of those skills and 2) I will better learn the range of those skills without needing the target color as a crutch – I’ll have to mess with this some more.

I have been using a tanky/stealthy (0/0/30/20/20) D/D LDB spam loltrops build primarily but recently started messing around with an S/P build – I picked up Shadow step for an additional condition removal since it’s quite a bit more squishy than I’m used to. Honestly, I don’t know how people can stand to play the backstab glass cannon build because of the huge lack of any survivability – I feel like, contrary to the whining masses, that that build is actually much more difficult to play successfully. Getting the hang of the backstab combo is one thing – but then learning how to escape and survive is where it gets really tricky – at least in my noob opinion

I do have a razer naga and use buttons on it for skills 5-9 and elite. I am very much used to using those buttons but recently was wondering if shadow step might actually be easier with a keyboard key – I bound it to Q in addition to the naga button but have not convinced my brain to actually use it yet so I can’t comment on whether it’s easier or not.

muscarine.5136:

Well there is this issue where you use your roll for initiative, and the same issue with disabling shot ; if you have been immobilized you won’t move away and the animation will actually play while you just stay right where you are.

Happens pretty often.

So yea i shouldn’t say doesn’t remove immobilize but immobilize prevents you from rolling away.

Might be some latency at work, and yeah you do not evade back the whole duration when you are rooted when you use it which should probably count as a bug. Still, for me, it does roll back at least for 1/2 to 3/4 of the normal distance.

Also, the skill evades during the whole animation anyway so even rolling back in place would prevent most of the 100 blades attack from connecting.

Although IMHO, the “remove immobilize” part of RfI and Withdraw are indeed flawed but not because it doesn’t roll as far as it should. It’s flawed because you cannot turn yourself while immobilized so you cannot control on which direction you roll. And rolling directly back is often the bad choice to the point I’d rather wait for immobilize to finish.

I’ve never even noticed diffculties with Shadow step targeting, I just assumed natural imperfect positioning as part of any MMO’s limited camera angles. Anyway Shadowstep is and absolute must for me and I’m very quick deploying it=survivability and using it also offensively I can cover alot of ground quickly to a target with a shadowstep and then infilitrators strike/arrow. The ability and return is also very confusing when avoiding enemies. RFI looked good on paper but i found it quite limited in use due to immobilise and well you can only roll backwards as far as I could see.

I’m pretty much addicted to Shadowstep/Blink/Lightning Flash. I love those skills so much.

As for the difficulty in using the skill as a stun breaker: yes, it is a L2P thing. After enough practice with the skill, it is amazing as a stun breaker. For the longest time I was having a lot of difficulty with these type of stunbreakers, but after using them for so long, I got much more used to them.

Being able to reposition yourself in addition to breaking stun is amazing. Also, getting launched off a fatal cliff?… well just stun break/teleport back to where you want to be… its such a rush when you pull it off. The teleport stun breaking skills might demand a bit more skill to utilize, but they reward you greatly for that skill. Just keep using it as a stunbreaker, and when you finally get comfortable with the skill it will feel so worth it.

I’ve used it to break out of stuns and teleport to the top of a small terrain impasse near speldan clearcut in WvW. The 100B Warrior in pursuit (who just put all burst utilities on cooldown, all for me lol) lost me long enough for me to drop in behind with a full venom’d backstab rotation.

He then promptly alt-f4’d.

Edit: Basically, when you get creative with it, you’ll begin to see that it’s cooldown is a joke for what it allows you to do. Also, you can use it when stomping – especially effective when you’re stomping another Thief.

Seriously what is the deal with people that do that, crash out when they’re being stomped. It’s a whole new lame.

haha, sometimes for certain ragers it’s quit or break something expensive like a razer naga mouse

For the price of the split second of making sure you have a decent ground target you get an extra free stunbreak/condition removal/re-position in the next 20 seconds that there is almost no reason not to use.